Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:07 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (MacDonald Doug)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: Re: Sensenich Prop (Damien)
3. 05:21 AM - Re: prop balancing (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 06:23 AM - Re: prop balancing (Roger Lee)
5. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: prop balancing (Hugh McKay)
6. 07:29 AM - Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax (Tom Jones)
7. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: prop balancing (K BURNS)
8. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: prop balancing (FLYaDIVE)
9. 09:40 AM - Re: Engine running rough at 3400 RPM and above (MacDonald Doug)
10. 04:38 PM - 91X ignition shields (rparigoris)
11. 05:46 PM - Re: 91X ignition shields (C_Pickett)
12. 06:16 PM - Re: prop balancing (Roger Lee)
13. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax (Richard Girard)
14. 09:03 PM - Re: 91X ignition shields (rparigoris)
15. 09:46 PM - Re: Re: 91X ignition shields (Richard Girard)
16. 10:01 PM - Re: Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax (Richard Girard)
17. 10:08 PM - Re: Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax (Richard Girard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop |
Keep in mind that this is a Zenith product we're talking about and Chris Heintz
is a master of simplistic designs. The end result often looks a little wierd
but functions very well.
I'm not a 601 builder but since it was designed around the same time, I'd bet it
has the same throttle arrangement as my 701 is supposed to have. The throttle
actuators that are on the instrument panel do not attach directly to the carbs.
They run through the firewall to a cross tube that joins the left and right
throttle controls together. Then at some point on this cross shaft is another
set of arms that connect to the cables that actually run to the carbs. The
arrangment sounds clunk and looks pretty wierd but works pretty well.
If the 601 we are talking about has the stock Zenith throttle actuator, it is a
steel tube or rod with a "T" handle on the end of it. The purpose of the rubber
bumper is to keep the "T" bar away from the panel so it can be grabbed easily.
Essentially, trimming a little off of the rubber would not likely hurt the function
of the plane but as has been said, you might be better off pulling the cowl
and going through the full throttle linkage setup to verify that you are getting
full throttle opening.
Best of luck.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
912 UL
>
> Time: 04:49:57 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Sensenich Prop
> From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
>
> Damien, before you go whacking away at the rubber stop,
> pull the cowl, take
> off the air filters or filter box, and do a visual check to
> make sure the
> throttle plates are fully open when the throttle lever is
> against the stop.
> If they aren't, find a good mechanic and get the throttle
> cables adjusted
> properly. Have him do a mechanical and pneumatic
> synchronization of the
> carbs while he's at it. If the carbs are out of synch you
> could be losing
> RPM even if the engine seems to be running fine.
>
> Rick Girard
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop |
> Thanks to all of you for your responses to my inquiry about
changing to the Sensenich prop. I now have a solid base to
go forward with.
I will let you know how it works out.
Regards,
Damien
DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
Roger
I ordered the balancer from Mark and should have it Monday. Thanks for the
info !
Dick Maddux
912UL
Milton,Fl
PS : am installing a Kiev on another paradise today wish I had the balancer
BUT, they are usually spot on. (or close)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
Hi Dick,
I think it should work out fairly well for you. It does a good job on wheels and
props. The hardest thing to do for any balancer is to get very high quality
bearings if your balancer uses them. Some people just take a rod and put it on
the edge of two pieces of metal setting on end with sharpened edges like a knife
to make it more sensitive. This balancer that you bought has served me well
for 3 years and the price was right to have something that was easy, cost effective
and reliable.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307765#307765
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
Roger,
In all this discussion about balancing props, including the hub and bolts,
and the supposed Rotax prop out-of-balance tolerance of 0.5 gram no one has
mentioned the spinner. The spinner rotates with the prop. How do you balance
a spinner to within 0.5 grams? Spinners can be out easily that much. You
certainly can't on the Universal Motorcycle Wheel Balancer you recommended.
Hugh McKay
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 9:22 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: prop balancing
>
> Hi Dick,
>
> I think it should work out fairly well for you. It does a good job on
> wheels and props. The hardest thing to do for any balancer is to get very
> high quality bearings if your balancer uses them. Some people just take a
> rod and put it on the edge of two pieces of metal setting on end with
> sharpened edges like a knife to make it more sensitive. This balancer that
> you bought has served me well for 3 years and the price was right to have
> something that was easy, cost effective and reliable.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307765#307765
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax |
Rick, here's an update on my Key West. This AM I hooked it back up to the starter
side of the master contactor (same terminal that the hobbs is connected to)
and turned the master on for about a minute then off.
The hobbs continued to run and my multimeter showed 4.3 volts on the out put terminal
of the key West regulator.
After 60 seconds the hobbs stopped running and the Key west output was down to
2.5 volts and dropping slowly.
My theory now is that the Key West regulator does hold a slight residual voltage.
I don't know why, maybe it is needed in applications without a battery where
the alternator needs that voltage to be excited to start working.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307775#307775
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
Dynamic prop balancer-see below $1500 seems steep, form a group to buy one, and
book it out, cheaper than wrecking an Prop /Hub/Crank combination
http://www.rpxtech.com/rpxweb/Dynavibe.asp
Kevin
----- Original Message ----
From: Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, 6 August, 2010 14:41:29
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: prop balancing
Roger,
In all this discussion about balancing props, including the hub and bolts, and
the supposed Rotax prop out-of-balance tolerance of 0.5 gram no one has
mentioned the spinner. The spinner rotates with the prop. How do you balance a
spinner to within 0.5 grams? Spinners can be out easily that much. You certainly
can't on the Universal Motorcycle Wheel Balancer you recommended.
Hugh McKay
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 9:22 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: prop balancing
>
> Hi Dick,
>
> I think it should work out fairly well for you. It does a good job on wheels
>and props. The hardest thing to do for any balancer is to get very high quality
>bearings if your balancer uses them. Some people just take a rod and put it on
>the edge of two pieces of metal setting on end with sharpened edges like a knife
>to make it more sensitive. This balancer that you bought has served me well for
>3 years and the price was right to have something that was easy, cost effective
>and reliable.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307765#307765
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
Gaggle:
At work I do a lot of vibration and shock testing. The company is
considering a dynamic balancer with computer.
Now that there have been a few that have done the static balancing - Has any
one done a comparison is results between the static and dynamic?
What kinds of improvements have you noted?
Barry
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Dick,
>
> I think it should work out fairly well for you. It does a good job on
> wheels and props. The hardest thing to do for any balancer is to get very
> high quality bearings if your balancer uses them. Some people just take a
> rod and put it on the edge of two pieces of metal setting on end with
> sharpened edges like a knife to make it more sensitive. This balancer that
> you bought has served me well for 3 years and the price was right to have
> something that was easy, cost effective and reliable.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307765#307765
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine running rough at 3400 RPM and above |
I think I have my rough running engine issues sorted out. I spent several hours
at Oshkosh harassing the tech gurrus from CPS, Lockwood, LEAF and Missippi.
They all had some interesting things to say but had no smoking gun for me. Basically,
soak the carbs for a couple of hours in a carb cleaner or a laquer thinner
type solution and try them again.
The tech from lockwood suggested that perhaps I was actually running rich rather
than lean. He said that at higher RPMs the enrichener circuit actually leans
out the mixture after its initial shot of fuel. This got me thinking.
After re-assembling my carbs and re-installing them on the plane, I decided that
I didn't like how close my enrichener cables were to my carb heat cable. I
adjusted the geometry so that there was more clearance. This adjustment made
it so that the enrichener would not close completely. With a little further playing
around the enricheners are now functioning correctly. However, now that
I've looked at it, I'm pretty sure that they were not closing correctly before
either. AHA, a smoking gun.
Last night I performed a complete re-balance for the carbs and ran the engine up.
I have a minor roughness at idle that was not there before but was able to
run up to 5200 RPM static (on the tach) and the engine ran perfectly smoothly.
Today I am going to double check the idle mixtures and that should fix up the rough
idle.
Thanks to all of you that gave me suggestions. This has been a bit of a learning
experience. I knew it would be something simple but it was just a matter of
finding the cause.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
912 UL
Message 10
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| Subject: | 91X ignition shields |
The older schematics I have for my 914 shows to ground the ignition shutoff wire
shields at both ends, the engine side and panel side.
I think I may remember seeing Rotax rethought this?
Question is should I ground shields at both ends?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307813#307813
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 91X ignition shields |
A way to remember.
A conductor is connected on both ends and causes a flow.
A shield is a drain open on one end
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307819#307819
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
I have a dynamic balancer and yes it can make a big difference, but not all props
are out as much as another. Some get a little correction while others get more.
there are others things at play sometimes after the static and after it's
back on the engine. Usual cost is any where from $250-$350 for a dynamic balance.
A dynamic balancer's cost is around $4k and up.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307821#307821
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax |
Tom, I would absolutely bet that putting in the filter cap would stop this
non sense. I've never bothered to check the output of the Key West beyond
verifying that it put out DC power at 14 V +/- .2 volts when I finished
rewiring the plane.
You have an interesting problem. I bet Bob Nukolls at the Aeroelectric
Connection could help you understand and identify what is going on far
better than me.
B & C Specialty Products has the cap I used (about $15 IIRC)
http://www.bandc.biz/index.aspx
Rick Girard
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
>
> Rick, here's an update on my Key West. This AM I hooked it back up to the
> starter side of the master contactor (same terminal that the hobbs is
> connected to) and turned the master on for about a minute then off.
>
> The hobbs continued to run and my multimeter showed 4.3 volts on the out
> put terminal of the key West regulator.
>
> After 60 seconds the hobbs stopped running and the Key west output was down
> to 2.5 volts and dropping slowly.
>
> My theory now is that the Key West regulator does hold a slight residual
> voltage. I don't know why, maybe it is needed in applications without a
> battery where the alternator needs that voltage to be excited to start
> working.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307775#307775
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 91X ignition shields |
Hi C_Pickett
I understand the concept of grounding at one end only for RF on radio / avionics
install.
Rotax however was very specific in older documentation to shield grounds at both
ends.
I think they may have revised this procedure though??
I don't know reason they chose to ground shield at both ends on older documentation,
but they did.
Anyway do you know for a fact that they now recommend only grounding to the engine
case and leaving ignition switch end shield ungrounded?
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307831#307831
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 91X ignition shields |
Ron, For the 914, see the Installation Manual, page 116 refer to Figure 75
that clearly shows the ignition switch wire shielding is grounded at both
ends. Also the following, same page, "CAUTION:.....shielding braid (low
resistance) on both ends grounded to prevent EMI (e.g.specification MIL
27500/18). And, "the metal base of each ignition switch must be grounded to
the aircraft frame to prevent EMI."
For the 912, see Installation Manual, page 114 refer to Figure 73, also
clearly shows that the ignition wire shielding is grounded at both ends. The
wording in the CAUTION is exactly the same.
Both these are taken from the latest edition of the respective Installation
Manuals.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:03 PM, rparigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>wrote:
> rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Hi C_Pickett
>
> I understand the concept of grounding at one end only for RF on radio /
> avionics install.
>
> Rotax however was very specific in older documentation to shield grounds at
> both ends.
>
> I think they may have revised this procedure though??
>
> I don't know reason they chose to ground shield at both ends on older
> documentation, but they did.
>
> Anyway do you know for a fact that they now recommend only grounding to the
> engine case and leaving ignition switch end shield ungrounded?
>
> Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307831#307831
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax |
Tom, As I was looking up the answer to Ron Pagoris' question about the 91X
ignition grounding I found the following in both the 912 and 914
Installation manuals concerning the use of a capacitor in the rectifier
circuit
"A capacitor of at least 22,000 uf / 25 V must is necessary to protect the
correct function of regulator and to flatten voltage. The regulator is not
designed to store any electrical charge. If for any reason the battery or
bus system is disconnected from the regulator while the engine is running
(i.e. the master switch is shut off) the capacitor will safely absorb and
dissipate the electrical charge produced by the generator. Otherwise the
regulator would be damaged."
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom, I would absolutely bet that putting in the filter cap would stop this
> non sense. I've never bothered to check the output of the Key West beyond
> verifying that it put out DC power at 14 V +/- .2 volts when I finished
> rewiring the plane.
> You have an interesting problem. I bet Bob Nukolls at the Aeroelectric
> Connection could help you understand and identify what is going on far
> better than me.
> B & C Specialty Products has the cap I used (about $15 IIRC)
> http://www.bandc.biz/index.aspx
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Rick, here's an update on my Key West. This AM I hooked it back up to the
>> starter side of the master contactor (same terminal that the hobbs is
>> connected to) and turned the master on for about a minute then off.
>>
>> The hobbs continued to run and my multimeter showed 4.3 volts on the out
>> put terminal of the key West regulator.
>>
>> After 60 seconds the hobbs stopped running and the Key west output was
>> down to 2.5 volts and dropping slowly.
>>
>> My theory now is that the Key West regulator does hold a slight residual
>> voltage. I don't know why, maybe it is needed in applications without a
>> battery where the alternator needs that voltage to be excited to start
>> working.
>>
>> --------
>> Tom Jones
>> Classic IV
>> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
>> Ellensburg, WA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307775#307775
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax |
Crud, Tom, I hit the send button to soon. Sorry.
Now obviously the rectifier regulators we're talking about here are not the
same as the Key West which requires no dummy load, i.e. can be used without
a battery, but the use of a capacitor is pretty well explained in the 91X IM
and I wanted to share it with you.
As I said, I run a capacitor of this size on my Key West regulated 582 for
the reasons stated, "to flatten voltage" (I guess this is Austro German
manual speak for cleaning up the regulator output. :-} ). Adding a second
layer of protection to protect the Key West is just the icing on the cake.
Rick
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom, As I was looking up the answer to Ron Pagoris' question about the 91X
> ignition grounding I found the following in both the 912 and 914
> Installation manuals concerning the use of a capacitor in the rectifier
> circuit
>
> "A capacitor of at least 22,000 uf / 25 V must is necessary to protect the
> correct function of regulator and to flatten voltage. The regulator is not
> designed to store any electrical charge. If for any reason the battery or
> bus system is disconnected from the regulator while the engine is running
> (i.e. the master switch is shut off) the capacitor will safely absorb and
> dissipate the electrical charge produced by the generator. Otherwise the
> regulator would be damaged."
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Tom, I would absolutely bet that putting in the filter cap would stop this
>> non sense. I've never bothered to check the output of the Key West beyond
>> verifying that it put out DC power at 14 V +/- .2 volts when I finished
>> rewiring the plane.
>> You have an interesting problem. I bet Bob Nukolls at the Aeroelectric
>> Connection could help you understand and identify what is going on far
>> better than me.
>> B & C Specialty Products has the cap I used (about $15 IIRC)
>> http://www.bandc.biz/index.aspx
>>
>> Rick Girard
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
>>
>>> nahsikhs@elltel.net>
>>>
>>> Rick, here's an update on my Key West. This AM I hooked it back up to
>>> the starter side of the master contactor (same terminal that the hobbs is
>>> connected to) and turned the master on for about a minute then off.
>>>
>>> The hobbs continued to run and my multimeter showed 4.3 volts on the out
>>> put terminal of the key West regulator.
>>>
>>> After 60 seconds the hobbs stopped running and the Key west output was
>>> down to 2.5 volts and dropping slowly.
>>>
>>> My theory now is that the Key West regulator does hold a slight residual
>>> voltage. I don't know why, maybe it is needed in applications without a
>>> battery where the alternator needs that voltage to be excited to start
>>> working.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Tom Jones
>>> Classic IV
>>> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
>>> Ellensburg, WA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307775#307775
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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