Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:21 AM - Re: Engine roughness (Thom Riddle)
2. 03:35 AM - Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down (Thom Riddle)
3. 04:53 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 04:56 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness (Catz631@aol.com)
5. 05:32 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughness (Hugh McKay)
6. 05:41 AM - Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down (Roger Lee)
7. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness (FLYaDIVE)
8. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness (Jonathan)
9. 05:55 AM - Re: Engine roughness (Thom Riddle)
10. 05:59 AM - Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down (Thom Riddle)
11. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughness (Hugh McKay)
12. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness (Hugh McKay)
13. 06:56 AM - Re: Engine roughness (Thom Riddle)
14. 08:06 AM - Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down (Bill S)
15. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughness (Scott DeMeyer)
16. 08:14 AM - Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down (Thom Riddle)
17. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness ()
18. 09:32 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughness ()
19. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughness (Clive Richards)
20. 10:46 AM - Re: Engine roughness (Thom Riddle)
21. 11:52 AM - Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down (Roger Lee)
22. 12:14 PM - Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down (Thom Riddle)
23. 12:16 PM - Re: Engine roughness (sdemeyer)
24. 01:13 PM - Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection times? (Roger Lee)
25. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Engine roughness (Clive Richards)
26. 02:13 PM - Re: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection ... (Blumax008@aol.com)
27. 02:28 PM - Re: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection ... (Craig Payne)
28. 02:37 PM - Re: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection ... (Blumax008@aol.com)
29. 04:27 PM - Re: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection times? (Richard Girard)
30. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: Engine roughness (Richard Girard)
31. 08:11 PM - Re: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection times (Roger Lee)
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Hugh,
A mag not firing is far more likely to be a wiring or switch fault than a faulty
mag, also cheaper to remedy. I would start looking at the magneto switches first.
If the connections are clean and secure, these generally fail before other
components since they are mechanical and are switched off an on at least twice
every flight. Randomly occurring faults are a hit-and-miss proposition when
looking for them so if the switch seems okay, check out every inch of the wiring
to/from that switch.
Keep us posted on what you find.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308626#308626
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down |
Roger,
Where did all that rust come from? I don't live in a desert like you do. We have
real humidity in this part of the world but never seen any rust in any of the
912 gearboxes I've inspected.
My guess is that engine is a fairly old one that was sitting unused for quite a
long time before it was installed in the RV-12. Use 'em or lose 'em. Do you know
the history of that engine?
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308628#308628
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness |
Hugh,
I had pretty much the same thing happen on my Kitfox with the older mid
90's engine. The engine would quit on one" mag " After a lot of wire
switching,etc it ended up being a broken wire.
Check the red power wires to the A and B modules. (or whichever doesn't
work) The way I did it was to get an ohmmeter and but one lead to a ground on
the engine (engine is NOT running by the way) then get a sewing pin and work
your way down the wire from the connection at the modules. Punch thru the
plastic sheilding of the small red wire with the pin to make sure you have
continuity in the wire.Do this about every couple of inches or so all the way
to the back of the engine I would be willing to bet you will find a break in
the underlying wire and it is just barely touching at the broken end thus
causing the module to be intermittently powered.That was the case with mine
AND the break was in a straight wire run making it totally invisable from the
surface . I found the internal wire break just a few inches from the module
connection. I cut the wire,spliced it ,and am now back in business !
I hope that is your problem
Dick Maddux
912 UL
Milton,Fl
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness |
AH nuts! I wrote so fast on the reply trying to help Hugh, I forgot to use
spell check! Am somewhat embarrassed. I can fly airplanes but can't spell
worth a flip !!!
Dick Maddux
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Thom/Dick,
Ok, I understand what you are telling me to do, and I will. However, being
an engineer (civil, not electrical) my brain is asking what is causing the
engine to cut off when I turn off the one mag? If the wire is broke in the
first place, what does turning the switch off have to do with shutting the
engine down? I am confused (which may be normal in my case)!
Hugh
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 6:20 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness
> <riddletr@gmail.com>
>
> Hugh,
>
> A mag not firing is far more likely to be a wiring or switch fault than a
> faulty mag, also cheaper to remedy. I would start looking at the magneto
> switches first. If the connections are clean and secure, these generally
> fail before other components since they are mechanical and are switched
> off an on at least twice every flight. Randomly occurring faults are a
> hit-and-miss proposition when looking for them so if the switch seems
> okay, check out every inch of the wiring to/from that switch.
>
> Keep us posted on what you find.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY (9G0)
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x32
>
>
> The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
> - Gloria Steinem
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308626#308626
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down |
Hi Thom,
There is no rust here. It is factory applied anti-seize. It is on every new gearbox
from the factory and I will use it to put it back together. It's not on
every part, but enough for you to see. Over time it goes away.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308644#308644
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness |
Dick:
What caused the wire to go intermittent in the first place?
Any ideas?
Barry
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:52 AM, <Catz631@aol.com> wrote:
> Hugh,
> I had pretty much the same thing happen on my Kitfox with the older mid
> 90's engine. The engine would quit on one" mag " After a lot of wire
> switching,etc it ended up being a broken wire.
> Check the red power wires to the A and B modules. (or whichever doesn't
> work) The way I did it was to get an ohmmeter and but one lead to a ground
> on the engine (engine is NOT running by the way) then get a sewing pin and
> work your way down the wire from the connection at the modules. Punch thru
> the plastic sheilding of the small red wire with the pin to make sure you
> have continuity in the wire.Do this about every couple of inches or so all
> the way to the back of the engine I would be willing to bet you will find a
> break in the underlying wire and it is just barely touching at the broken
> end thus causing the module to be intermittently powered.That was the case
> with mine AND the break was in a straight wire run making it
> totally invisable from the surface . I found the internal wire break just a
> few inches from the module connection. I cut the wire,spliced it ,and am now
> back in business !
> I hope that is your problem
> Dick Maddux
> 912 UL
> Milton,Fl
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness |
I have just had this exact problem, the red wire was broken 10mm away from
the plug! (Found the problem using the pin and Ohm Meter method)
I then bypassed the plug, with a new piece of wire, left the second ignition
unchanged.
Flew for 2 Hours, to discover that the second ignition, now had a broken
wire! About 15mm from the plug!
In both cases the wire had broken INSIDE the plastic insulation!
Please note that I did NOT install any of these wires, this is as installed
by ROTAX.
How can such an expensive engine have such crappy wire!
Jonathan
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: 13 August 2010 02:43 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness
Dick:
What caused the wire to go intermittent in the first place?
Any ideas?
Barry
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:52 AM, <Catz631@aol.com> wrote:
Hugh,
I had pretty much the same thing happen on my Kitfox with the older mid
90's engine. The engine would quit on one" mag " After a lot of wire
switching,etc it ended up being a broken wire.
Check the red power wires to the A and B modules. (or whichever doesn't
work) The way I did it was to get an ohmmeter and but one lead to a ground
on the engine (engine is NOT running by the way) then get a sewing pin and
work your way down the wire from the connection at the modules. Punch thru
the plastic sheilding of the small red wire with the pin to make sure you
have continuity in the wire.Do this about every couple of inches or so all
the way to the back of the engine I would be willing to bet you will find a
break in the underlying wire and it is just barely touching at the broken
end thus causing the module to be intermittently powered.That was the case
with mine AND the break was in a straight wire run making it totally
invisable from the surface . I found the internal wire break just a few
inches from the module connection. I cut the wire,spliced it ,and am now
back in business !
I hope that is your problem
Dick Maddux
912 UL
Milton,Fl
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Hugh,
Magnetos that are working correctly, are functional UNLESS the the "P-Lead" is
GROUNDED. When you turn the mag switch to the OFF position, that grounds the mag
so it will not function. If the mag is inadvertently grounded without turning
the mag switch to OFF, then it will not work. So essentially, you are looking
for an inadvertent grounding of the mag that "fails" when you check them during
the run-up.
The fact that mags function unless grounded is why it is important to check the
mag off switch for proper functioning during pre-take-off check. Your check for
rpm drop is important but also making sure the switch does ground the mag is
a safety issue too. If the switch does not ground the mag, it is always hot.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308646#308646
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down |
Aha! That explains why I've never seen it before. I've never inspected a new gearbox,
only ones that have reached the specified time in service. Sure looks like
rust in the photos, glad its not.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308647#308647
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Thom,
My head is probably really thick on this one. I still do not understand what
would cause the engine to completely cut off if there is a break in the wire
on that mag when the mag switch is turned off. I there is a break in the
wire between the switch and the engine anyway, what does activating or
de-activating the switch have to do with it?
Hugh
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:55 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness
> <riddletr@gmail.com>
>
> Hugh,
>
> Magnetos that are working correctly, are functional UNLESS the the
> "P-Lead" is GROUNDED. When you turn the mag switch to the OFF position,
> that grounds the mag so it will not function. If the mag is inadvertently
> grounded without turning the mag switch to OFF, then it will not work. So
> essentially, you are looking for an inadvertent grounding of the mag that
> "fails" when you check them during the run-up.
>
> The fact that mags function unless grounded is why it is important to
> check the mag off switch for proper functioning during pre-take-off check.
> Your check for rpm drop is important but also making sure the switch does
> ground the mag is a safety issue too. If the switch does not ground the
> mag, it is always hot.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY (9G0)
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x32
>
>
> The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
> - Gloria Steinem
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308646#308646
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness |
Jonathan,
What "plug" are you referring to? Where is it located?
Hugh McKay
From: Jonathan
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness
I have just had this exact problem, the red wire was broken 10mm away
from the plug! (Found the problem using the pin and Ohm Meter method)
I then bypassed the plug, with a new piece of wire, left the second
ignition unchanged.
Flew for 2 Hours, to discover that the second ignition, now had a broken
wire! About 15mm from the plug!
In both cases the wire had broken INSIDE the plastic insulation!
Please note that I did NOT install any of these wires, this is as
installed by ROTAX.
How can such an expensive engine have such crappy wire!
Jonathan
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE
Sent: 13 August 2010 02:43 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness
Dick:
What caused the wire to go intermittent in the first place?
Any ideas?
Barry
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:52 AM, <Catz631@aol.com> wrote:
Hugh,
I had pretty much the same thing happen on my Kitfox with the older mid
90's engine. The engine would quit on one" mag " After a lot of wire
switching,etc it ended up being a broken wire.
Check the red power wires to the A and B modules. (or whichever doesn't
work) The way I did it was to get an ohmmeter and but one lead to a
ground on the engine (engine is NOT running by the way) then get a
sewing pin and work your way down the wire from the connection at the
modules. Punch thru the plastic sheilding of the small red wire with the
pin to make sure you have continuity in the wire.Do this about every
couple of inches or so all the way to the back of the engine I would be
willing to bet you will find a break in the underlying wire and it is
just barely touching at the broken end thus causing the module to be
intermittently powered.That was the case with mine AND the break was in
a straight wire run making it totally invisable from the surface . I
found the internal wire break just a few inches from the module
connection. I cut the wire,spliced it ,and am now back in business !
I hope that is your problem
Dick Maddux
912 UL
Milton,Fl
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listttp
://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Hugh,
When you turn off the Left mag switch (for example), that action should ground
the Left mag (disabling it), thus leaving the engine running on the Right mag
only. If you turn off the Left mag and the engine quits, it means that the Right
mag is not firing the engine. This means that one (or combination) of the following
things is happening:
1) Right mag is faulty.
2) Right mag is grounded.
The Right mag being inadvertently grounded could be caused by one of two things,
that I can think of:
A) A bad switch (mistakenly grounding the mag when the switch is in the on position),
unlikely but possible.
B) Right mag wire has made ground elsewhere, most likely.
So, what you are looking for is these two things. If you find no fault in either
of these, then you need to look deeper, i.e., check out the functioning of the
mag itself. That is beyond the scope of my ability to explain in an email.
I hope this helps.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308657#308657
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down |
Re: Fig #9 (Large retaining collar) Is thair a proper tool for the
removal of this collar? Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:30 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down
>
> Hi All,
>
> Here are some pictures from a Rotax 912 gearbox. This is being torn down
> and examined from a prop strike on an RV-12.
> You will see a gearbox clutch in one of the pictures and they are
> installed in the 912ULS 100 hp, but not the 912UL 80 hp. Everything has to
> come out including the oil seal and bearing. A dye penetrant test now
> needs to be done down by the bearing opening. The shaft was checked for
> run out tolerances on the flange and crankcase shaft. These happen to be
> okay on this plane, this time. that isn't always the case. If you are
> going to have a prop strike do it at idle or engine off. High speed
> strikes don't do the prop shaft any favors.
> I thought some of you may enjoy looking at the inside of a gearbox.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308616#308616
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/binder3_154.pdf
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
I have had this broken wire problem too, several times with exactly the sam
e symptoms. The faulty wire(s) in my case was the one coming from the stato
r assembly and was broken just before the module connector.
Scott
--- On Fri, 8/13/10, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com>
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness
Hugh,
When you turn off the Left mag switch (for example), that action should gro
und the Left mag (disabling it), thus leaving the engine running on the Rig
ht mag only. If you turn off the Left mag and the engine quits, it means th
at the Right mag is not firing the engine. This means that one (or combinat
ion) of the following things is happening:
1) Right mag is faulty.
2) Right mag is grounded.
The Right mag being inadvertently grounded could be caused by one of two th
ings, that I can think of:
A) A bad switch (mistakenly grounding the mag when the switch is in the on
position), unlikely but possible.
B) Right mag wire has made ground elsewhere, most likely.
So, what you are looking for is these two things. If you find no fault in e
ither of these, then you need to look deeper, i.e., check out the functioni
ng of the mag itself. That is beyond the scope of my ability to explain in
an email.
I hope this helps.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308657#308657
le, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down |
Doc,
There may be a special tool but I insert a large common (flat blade) screwdriver
in the gap and twist so that it comes apart enough to slide over the parts above
it.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308666#308666
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness |
There are two electronic modules, on top of the motor, marked A and B,
these modules each have two plugs attached to them, one 4 Way and one
6Way
The 6Way plug connects, mostly to the Coils (HT Side), but one of the
connectors attaches to a red wire, that is from the exciter coil,
mounted on the back of the motor, where the pickup sensors are mounted.
The 4way connector is for the pickups at the back of the motor.
These two red wire comes from the back of the motor, and are shrouded in
metal braid, which stops just before they plu into the 6way connector.
It is just before the 6way connector, that the wires break inside the
insulation.
So all I had to do, was find the end of the Red wire(s) that still
worked, bypass the 6way connector, and wire it straight into the
respective modules.
Hope this helps
Jonathan
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh McKay
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness
Jonathan,
What "plug" are you referring to? Where is it located?
Hugh McKay
From: Jonathan
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:54 AM
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness
I have just had this exact problem, the red wire was broken 10mm away
from the plug! (Found the problem using the pin and Ohm Meter method)
I then bypassed the plug, with a new piece of wire, left the second
ignition unchanged.
Flew for 2 Hours, to discover that the second ignition, now had a
broken wire! About 15mm from the plug!
In both cases the wire had broken INSIDE the plastic insulation!
Please note that I did NOT install any of these wires, this is as
installed by ROTAX.
How can such an expensive engine have such crappy wire!
Jonathan
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE
Sent: 13 August 2010 02:43 PM
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness
Dick:
What caused the wire to go intermittent in the first place?
Any ideas?
Barry
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:52 AM, <Catz631@aol.com> wrote:
Hugh,
I had pretty much the same thing happen on my Kitfox with the older
mid 90's engine. The engine would quit on one" mag " After a lot of
wire switching,etc it ended up being a broken wire.
Check the red power wires to the A and B modules. (or whichever
doesn't work) The way I did it was to get an ohmmeter and but one lead
to a ground on the engine (engine is NOT running by the way) then get a
sewing pin and work your way down the wire from the connection at the
modules. Punch thru the plastic sheilding of the small red wire with the
pin to make sure you have continuity in the wire.Do this about every
couple of inches or so all the way to the back of the engine I would be
willing to bet you will find a break in the underlying wire and it is
just barely touching at the broken end thus causing the module to be
intermittently powered.That was the case with mine AND the break was in
a straight wire run making it totally invisable from the surface . I
found the internal wire break just a few inches from the module
connection. I cut the wire,spliced it ,and am now back in business !
I hope that is your problem
Dick Maddux
912 UL
Milton,Fl
ist"
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Yep that is where I had the problem too.
Jonathan
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott DeMeyer
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness
I have had this broken wire problem too, several times with
exactly the same symptoms. The faulty wire(s) in my case was the one
coming from the stator assembly and was broken just before the module
connector.
Scott
--- On Fri, 8/13/10, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com>
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 6:56 AM
<riddletr@gmail.com>
Hugh,
When you turn off the Left mag switch (for example), that
action should ground the Left mag (disabling it), thus leaving the
engine running on the Right mag only. If you turn off the Left mag and
the engine quits, it means that the Right mag is not firing the engine.
This means that one (or combination) of the following things is
happening:
1) Right mag is faulty.
2) Right mag is grounded.
The Right mag being inadvertently grounded could be caused by
one of two things, that I can think of:
A) A bad switch (mistakenly grounding the mag when the switch
is in the on position), unlikely but possible.
B) Right mag wire has made ground elsewhere, most likely.
So, what you are looking for is these two things. If you find
no fault in either of these, then you need to look deeper, i.e., check
out the functioning of the mag itself. That is beyond the scope of my
ability to explain in an email.
I hope this helps.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308657#308657
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List -->
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Thom
The break in the wire they are referring to is in a Red
power supply wire to the electronic module not the P lead which if grounded
by mag switch or a short to ground turns that module off.
Clive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness
> <hgmckay@bellsouth.net>
>
> Thom,
>
> My head is probably really thick on this one. I still do not understand
> what would cause the engine to completely cut off if there is a break in
> the wire on that mag when the mag switch is turned off. I there is a break
> in the wire between the switch and the engine anyway, what does activating
> or de-activating the switch have to do with it?
>
> Hugh
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:55 AM
> To: <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness
>
>> <riddletr@gmail.com>
>>
>> Hugh,
>>
>> Magnetos that are working correctly, are functional UNLESS the the
>> "P-Lead" is GROUNDED. When you turn the mag switch to the OFF position,
>> that grounds the mag so it will not function. If the mag is inadvertently
>> grounded without turning the mag switch to OFF, then it will not work. So
>> essentially, you are looking for an inadvertent grounding of the mag that
>> "fails" when you check them during the run-up.
>>
>> The fact that mags function unless grounded is why it is important to
>> check the mag off switch for proper functioning during pre-take-off
>> check. Your check for rpm drop is important but also making sure the
>> switch does ground the mag is a safety issue too. If the switch does not
>> ground the mag, it is always hot.
>>
>> --------
>> Thom Riddle
>> Buffalo, NY (9G0)
>> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
>> Jabiru 2200A #1574
>> Tennessee Prop 64x32
>>
>>
>> The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
>> - Gloria Steinem
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308646#308646
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Clive,
I never mentioned a broken wire, that was someone else. I was providing guidance
to Hugh to help him find a possible source of the problem, beginning with the
mag switches on to the mag grounding wires. I know an OPEN in a ground wire
will not cause a mag to 'fail', but to remain hot.
In any case, since the failure appears to be intermittent, it is likely to be a
bad connection or partially broken wire if on the power side, or a "sometimes
grounding" P-lead or p-lead switch wire.
Thom
http://sites.google.com/site/riddletr/a&pmechanix
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308688#308688
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down |
Hi Doc,
Thom's right, just a really wide tip flat head screwdriver. It's still a PITA to
take off. Keep your hand and fingers from behind the screwdriver tip. It will
slip and it will jab you in the hand enough to make you use some new words.
[Shocked]
Been there.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308695#308695
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS gearbox tear down |
Roger,
I have already forgotten the blood blister I acquired from the first time I did
that. Glad you brought up that caution.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
- Gloria Steinem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308697#308697
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Thom Riddle wrote:
> Clive,
>
> I never mentioned a broken wire, that was someone else. I was providing guidance
to Hugh to help him find a possible source of the problem, beginning with
the mag switches on to the mag grounding wires. I know an OPEN in a ground wire
will not cause a mag to 'fail', but to remain hot.
>
> In any case, since the failure appears to be intermittent, it is likely to be
a bad connection or partially broken wire if on the power side, or a "sometimes
grounding" P-lead or p-lead switch wire.
>
> Thom
> http://sites.google.com/site/riddletr/a&pmechanix
Sorry Guys, there are two threads going on here with almost exactly the same subject.
My reply was meant for the other thread!
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308699#308699
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| Subject: | Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection |
times?
Hi All,
Many have ask and many more are confused about the time tables for inspections.
Do you follow the 100 hr. time table set by the engine and aircraft Mfg or do
I follow the FAA and Mfg Annual condition Inspection time table?
The simple answer is both and neither. You may say not so fast here pal, but here
is the straight scoop from all authoritative entities.
First the FAA doesn't care how often the Annual is rest so long as it is addressed
and done. Flight Design and Rotax have both 100 hr. and Annual inspections.
They don't care so long as they are done and addressed and both the annual and
the 100 can be done at any time and the time table for each can be reset.
So what does this mean for me and you? If you only fly 50 hours a year then you
will be doing the Annual Condition Inspection most of the time. An example is:
you have 50 hours on the plane in one year and the Annual is due. So the Annual
and 100 hr inspection is the same. You do the Annual and sign off in the log
that both have been addressed. Your next Annual is 12 months from then and
the next 100 hr. is at 150 hrs. If the Annual comes around again at let's say
110 hrs then you will do the annual and also address the 100 hr inspection. Now
the Annual is again in 12 months and the 100 hr. is due at 210 hrs. and so on.
So if you are a low time pilot (less than 100 hrs a year) then you will do
more Annual condition time table inspections.
What if you are a 100+ hr a year pilot. Let's say you fly 175 hrs or 225 hrs a
a year. Then you will be doing more 100 hr time table inspections and addressing
and resetting the Annual time table. So lets say your first year you put on
100 hrs. before the annual was due. Now you do the 100 hr. inspection and reset
the Annual which then would come due in 12 months from that date. Now you put
on another 100 hr. before the annual is due again. You will do the 100 hr.
inspection and reset the annual again for 12 months down the line.
This type of schedule give pilots some flexibility for inspection times. You must
make sure you write in the logbook that you have done both or you may be doing
two inspections separate from each other.
I know it is clear as mud, but that's it in a nut shell.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308706#308706
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Thom
Sorry this should have been addressed to Hugh in
reply to his question included in my post I typed name at top of post
instead of bottom.
do not archive
Clive-
---- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 6:46 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness
> <riddletr@gmail.com>
>
> Clive,
>
> I never mentioned a broken wire, that was someone else. I was providing
> guidance to Hugh >
>>
> Thom
> http://sites.google.com/site/riddletr/a&pmechanix
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY (9G0)
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x32
>
>
> The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
> - Gloria Steinem
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308688#308688
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection |
...
OR...YOU CAN DO LIKE I DO...OWN 3 ILLEGAL ULTRALIGHTS, DON'T REGISTER THEM
AND TELL THE FAA AND ALL THE REST TO GO (it begins with an F) THEMSELVES.
I'M 62 YEARS OLD, HAVE AN FAA ATP LICENSE AND AM ABSOLUTELY SICK OF ALL THE
(it begins with a B). THEY HAVE WORN MY ASS OUT OVER THE PAST 40 (it begins
with an F) YEARS AND I TRULY FEEL SORRY FOR ALL YOU YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPERS
AND ALL THE REST OF THE SHEEP OUT THERE WHO THINK THEY HAVE TO DO
EVERYTHING THAT DADDY SAYS. WHO WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THEIR (FAA) (it begins
with
a B) FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES. YOU HAVE MY SYMPATHIES.
In a message dated 8/13/2010 4:13:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ssadiver1@yahoo.com writes:
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Hi All,
Many have ask and many more are confused about the time tables for
inspections. Do you follow the 100 hr. time table set by the engine and aircraft
Mfg or do I follow the FAA and Mfg Annual condition Inspection time table?
The simple answer is both and neither. You may say not so fast here pal,
but here is the straight scoop from all authoritative entities.
First the FAA doesn't care how often the Annual is rest so long as it is
addressed and done. Flight Design and Rotax have both 100 hr. and Annual
inspections. They don't care so long as they are done and addressed and both
the annual and the 100 can be done at any time and the time table for each
can be reset.
So what does this mean for me and you? If you only fly 50 hours a year
then you will be doing the Annual Condition Inspection most of the time. An
example is: you have 50 hours on the plane in one year and the Annual is due.
So the Annual and 100 hr inspection is the same. You do the Annual and
sign off in the log that both have been addressed. Your next Annual is 12
months from then and the next 100 hr. is at 150 hrs. If the Annual comes around
again at let's say 110 hrs then you will do the annual and also address
the 100 hr inspection. Now the Annual is again in 12 months and the 100 hr.
is due at 210 hrs. and so on. So if you are a low time pilot (less than 100
hrs a year) then you will do more Annual condition time table inspections.
What if you are a 100+ hr a year pilot. Let's say you fly 175 hrs or 225
hrs a a year. Then you will be doing more 100 hr time table inspections and
addressing and resetting the Annual time table. So lets say your first year
you put on 100 hrs. before the annual was due. Now you do the 100 hr.
inspection and reset the Annual which then would come due in 12 months from
that date. Now you put on another 100 hr. before the annual is due again. You
will do the 100 hr. inspection and reset the annual again for 12 months
down the line.
This type of schedule give pilots some flexibility for inspection times.
You must make sure you write in the logbook that you have done both or you
may be doing two inspections separate from each other.
I know it is clear as mud, but that's it in a nut shell.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308706#308706
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| Subject: | Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection |
...
Are you planning on firing the escape slide and jumping in? :-)
-- Craig
_____
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Blumax008@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition
Inspection ...
OR...YOU CAN DO LIKE I DO...OWN 3 ILLEGAL ULTRALIGHTS, DON'T REGISTER THEM
AND TELL THE FAA AND ALL THE REST TO GO (it begins with an F) THEMSELVES.
I'M 62 YEARS OLD, HAVE AN FAA ATP LICENSE AND AM ABSOLUTELY SICK OF ALL THE
(it begins with a B). THEY HAVE WORN MY ASS OUT OVER THE PAST 40 (it begins
with an F) YEARS AND I TRULY FEEL SORRY FOR ALL YOU YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPERS
AND ALL THE REST OF THE SHEEP OUT THERE WHO THINK THEY HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING
THAT DADDY SAYS. WHO WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THEIR (FAA) (it begins with a
B) FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES. YOU HAVE MY SYMPATHIES.
In a message dated 8/13/2010 4:13:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ssadiver1@yahoo.com writes:
Hi All,
Many have ask and many more are confused about the time tables for
inspections. Do you follow the 100 hr. time table set by the engine and
aircraft Mfg or do I follow the FAA and Mfg Annual condition Inspection time
table?
The simple answer is both and neither. You may say not so fast here pal, but
here is the straight scoop from all authoritative entities.
First the FAA doesn't care how often the Annual is rest so long as it is
addressed and done. Flight Design and Rotax have both 100 hr. and Annual
inspections. They don't care so long as they are done and addressed and both
the annual and the 100 can be done at any time and the time table for each
can be reset.
So what does this mean for me and you? If you only fly 50 hours a year then
you will be doing the Annual Condition Inspection most of the time. An
example is: you have 50 hours on the plane in one year and the Annual is
due. So the Annual and 100 hr inspection is the same. You do the Annual and
sign off in the log that both have been addressed. Your next Annual is 12
months from then and the next 100 hr. is at 150 hrs. If the Annual comes
around again at let's say 110 hrs then you will do the annual and also
address the 100 hr inspection. Now the Annual is again in 12 months and the
100 hr. is due at 210 hrs. and so on. So if you are a low time pilot (less
than 100 hrs a year) then you will do more Annual condition time table
inspections.
What if you are a 100+ hr a year pilot. Let's say you fly 175 hrs or 225 hrs
a a year. Then you will be doing more 100 hr time table inspections and
addressing and resetting the Annual time table. So lets say your first year
you put on 100 hrs. before the annual was due. Now you do the 100 hr.
inspection and reset the Annual which then would come due in 12 months from
that date. Now you put on another 100 hr. before the annual is due again.
You will do the 100 hr. inspection and reset the annual again for 12 months
down the line.
This type of schedule give pilots some flexibility for inspection times. You
must make sure you write in the logbook that you have done both or you may
be doing two inspections separate from each other.
I know it is clear as mud, but that's it in a nut shell.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308706#308706==================
===========================
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ===============================================
- List Contribution Web Site sp;
==================================================
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection |
...
In a message dated 8/13/2010 5:28:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
craig@craigandjean.com writes:
Are you planning on firing the escape slide and jumping in? :-)
Hell, I might be like the folks you see on the news, just get fed up & get
ta' blastin'! :)
Thanks for allowing me to blast off. It keeps me from having to do the
above.
BUT MAN WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO COME UP WITH NEXT?
Where's 100LL going? And now we've got Ethanol to deal with.
Just heard yesterday some stupid, lame brained politician (is there any
other type?) is trying to make a new TCAS-like instrument mandatory for all
general aviation aircraft (and maybe LSAs too)...at "only" $10 to $12,000
per aircraft! How neat! I mean what the hell ever happened to pilots who
could actually think & look to avoid for themselves? Good God!
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection |
times?
Roger, you fail to address those who use their aircraft for training or
hire. Then the 100 hr. inspection is due at 100 hrs and it doesn't matter if
it's two weeks, two months, or a year. The flying club where I got my
private ticket had a couple of 172's that were the student's favorites. On
average they had a 100 hour inspection every month.
Rick Girard
LSARM #3178721
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Many have ask and many more are confused about the time tables for
> inspections. Do you follow the 100 hr. time table set by the engine and
> aircraft Mfg or do I follow the FAA and Mfg Annual condition Inspection time
> table?
> The simple answer is both and neither. You may say not so fast here pal,
> but here is the straight scoop from all authoritative entities.
> First the FAA doesn't care how often the Annual is rest so long as it is
> addressed and done. Flight Design and Rotax have both 100 hr. and Annual
> inspections. They don't care so long as they are done and addressed and both
> the annual and the 100 can be done at any time and the time table for each
> can be reset.
> So what does this mean for me and you? If you only fly 50 hours a year then
> you will be doing the Annual Condition Inspection most of the time. An
> example is: you have 50 hours on the plane in one year and the Annual is
> due. So the Annual and 100 hr inspection is the same. You do the Annual and
> sign off in the log that both have been addressed. Your next Annual is 12
> months from then and the next 100 hr. is at 150 hrs. If the Annual comes
> around again at let's say 110 hrs then you will do the annual and also
> address the 100 hr inspection. Now the Annual is again in 12 months and the
> 100 hr. is due at 210 hrs. and so on. So if you are a low time pilot (less
> than 100 hrs a year) then you will do more Annual condition time table
> inspections.
>
> What if you are a 100+ hr a year pilot. Let's say you fly 175 hrs or 225
> hrs a a year. Then you will be doing more 100 hr time table inspections and
> addressing and resetting the Annual time table. So lets say your first year
> you put on 100 hrs. before the annual was due. Now you do the 100 hr.
> inspection and reset the Annual which then would come due in 12 months from
> that date. Now you put on another 100 hr. before the annual is due again.
> You will do the 100 hr. inspection and reset the annual again for 12 months
> down the line.
>
>
> This type of schedule give pilots some flexibility for inspection times.
> You must make sure you write in the logbook that you have done both or you
> may be doing two inspections separate from each other.
>
>
> I know it is clear as mud, but that's it in a nut shell.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308706#308706
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness |
Just a guess, but the wire is broken and the insulation is holding it such
that it makes intermittent contact.
Rick Girard
LSARM # 3178721
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> hgmckay@bellsouth.net>
>
> Thom/Dick,
>
> Ok, I understand what you are telling me to do, and I will. However, being
> an engineer (civil, not electrical) my brain is asking what is causing the
> engine to cut off when I turn off the one mag? If the wire is broke in the
> first place, what does turning the switch off have to do with shutting the
> engine down? I am confused (which may be normal in my case)!
>
> Hugh
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 6:20 AM
>
> To: <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness
>
>> riddletr@gmail.com>
>>
>> Hugh,
>>
>> A mag not firing is far more likely to be a wiring or switch fault than a
>> faulty mag, also cheaper to remedy. I would start looking at the magneto
>> switches first. If the connections are clean and secure, these generally
>> fail before other components since they are mechanical and are switched off
>> an on at least twice every flight. Randomly occurring faults are a
>> hit-and-miss proposition when looking for them so if the switch seems okay,
>> check out every inch of the wiring to/from that switch.
>>
>> Keep us posted on what you find.
>>
>>
>> --------
>> Thom Riddle
>> Buffalo, NY (9G0)
>> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
>> Jabiru 2200A #1574
>> Tennessee Prop 64x32
>>
>>
>> The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
>> - Gloria Steinem
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308626#308626
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Do I follow the 100 hr or Annual Condition Inspection |
times
Hi Rick,
Your right, I didn't get into all the other regs that apply to commercial use,
just the recreational pilot and a lot aimed at SLSA.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308743#308743
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