---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/22/10: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:38 AM - Re: 447 analysis (lucien) 2. 04:12 AM - Re: 447 analysis (lucien) 3. 04:20 AM - Re: 447 analysis (dave) 4. 05:17 AM - Re: Re: 447 analysis (Catz631@aol.com) 5. 10:06 AM - 447 analysis (David Kulp) 6. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Engine roughness Engine roughness (Clive Richards) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:28 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 447 analysis From: "lucien" dave wrote: > Rick. you are saying pretty well what I am saying. > Heh, I'm used to getting push-back on this one, so nowadays to save time I generally just refer the doubters to Mark Smith of Tri-state Kite sales (www.trikite.com). He's flown and worked on the 447 and 503 since the 80's and still does several engines a week. He'll give you the scoop on how to operate them for the longest life and least trouble. Most of the time, the guys who don't listen to me do listen to him once they see that he's been working with them for over 30 years. If not, well, it's your engine ;) LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309714#309714 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:29 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 447 analysis From: "lucien" dave wrote: > David, 52 to 5400 is not a sweet spot and this is why you might be having issues. I can run a 503 for 600 hour plus with oil injection at 5800 to 6000 rpm with NO teardowns, de carboning etc- change plugs 100 to 150 hours. > This ought to tell you something too - going 600 hours with no teardowns or decarbs just by itself is brinksmanship with a Rotax 2-stroke even when running it right, not to mention running it too hard in addition. But again, I've already done my time online with all this and now just refer guys to Mark Smith for the way it really should be done with a 447/503. Let's be careful out there, folks, LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309715#309715 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:58 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 447 analysis From: "dave" Lucien, There are many of us running Rotax for over 30 years with no troubles. I think Mark a great guy as well but the point is the original guy who asked is running it on the low end and that is likely contributing to his troubles. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309717#309717 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:16 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 447 analysis > Dick you suggested switching all the wires from one ignition module to the other. Are they identical and can they be switched without harming the engine? If we do this and the problem still occurs, but is on the other mag, what does this tell us? If the problem still occurs but is on the same mag, what does that tell us?< What this should tell you is if the problem is with the modules or the wiring. If the problem now goes to the other mag ,you have a wiring problem (i.e.,: possible grounding of a "P" lead, open power lead,etc). You should be able to switch plugs at the modules. It won't hurt the engine. You could switch the wires at the mag switches if you have too. It is just a matter of right becomes left...left is now right. If the problem remains in the same "mag" after switching all the wires, then the problem lies somewhere in the module to engine. Case in point. I had a similar problem. When I did my mag check. on one mag it would run rough and often quit.( the other was OK) I reversed the wiring to the module and now the other mag was cutting out so I knew the problem was in the wiring somewhere (probably a break ...which it was... in the red wire) I fixed that problem by cutting and splicing the offending wire but I still had a drop on one mag(about 200 I think) but,it didn't quit. When I flew the aircraft, you could feel the engine miss in flight. After landing, I pulled all the plugs and "bomb" (spark) tested them in an AC spark plug tester and low and behold one plug was intermittently firing with a super weak spark. I chucked that plug and put in another new one...problem solved. By the way all the plugs were new but I had a bad one so, when in doubt, test them! Hope this helps as I know your frustration! Dick ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:58 AM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 447 analysis Still more info on the care and feeding of the 447 Rotax. Thanks so much! It's more than I could learn by flying it for hundreds of hours. Thanks so much. Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA FireFly 11DMK ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:22 PM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness Engine roughness Hugh I have only looked a while ago at an engine we have on the bench as plane is not built yet but think you will find the modals are Identical and as they are connected by plugs & Sockets you can swap them over. Our engine is an old one & has a different arrangement on the plugs to the current ones so if you need spares you need to get the correct one. >From your test the left module is faulty as when you kill the right module the engine stops Swap the P leads plugs at module end & if fault swaps moduals then switch or P lead is faulty. You previously mentioned disturbing a trigger coil lead if this lead has gone open circuit this will stop that module working as it fires 2 cylinders. I presume all was working ok originally but have you disturbed the plugs ? I notice from the manual that 2 plugs are fired at the same time by the ignition coils so a faulty open plug will stop the engine if that modual only is selected. do not archive Clive From: Hugh McKay To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:45 AM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughness Engine roughness OK guys, We have checked all the wiring everyone has suggested for continuity: "P" leads, Kill Switches, wires to all the ignition pick-ups, and the two red wires going down to the engine (these two red wires are grounded in the engine per the Rotax 912 engine wiring diagram, so we just disconnected one end of each red wire on top of the engine and ohmed each wire to ground and we got continuity. Therefore we assume the red wires are good. We put everything back together and the engine did the exact same thing. The engine started and ran, but had a slight roughness to it. I ran it up to 2200 rpm and killed the left mag switch. There was no drop in rpm at 2200. The engine continued to run. I then opened the left mag switch and closed the right mag switch, and the engine died (was killed) immediately. Same problem!! Dick you suggested switching all the wires from one ignition module to the other. Are they identical and can they be switched without harming the engine? If we do this and the problem still occurs, but is on the other mag, what does this tell us? If the problem still occurs but is on the same mag, what does that tell us? Still searching, Hugh McKay Allegro 2000 ELSA Rotax 912 UL N661WW From: Catz631@aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 10:31 AM To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine roughnessEngine roughness Hugh, Something else you might try is switching wires from one module to the other and see if the problem follows. 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