Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:37 AM - Re: Bad Bolt (Richard Girard)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: Bad Bolt (FLYaDIVE)
3. 10:58 AM - Re: Bad Bolt (John Fasching)
4. 01:34 PM - Re: Bad Bolt (Clive Richards)
5. 02:38 PM - Re: Bad Bolt (FLYaDIVE)
6. 03:35 PM - Re: Bad Bolt (Roger Lee)
7. 04:05 PM - BRS chute repack time table (Roger Lee)
8. 04:51 PM - Re: BRS chute repack time table (Silvano Gai)
9. 06:27 PM - Re: BRS chute repack time table (Richard Girard)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Spins without ever tightening? Sounds like stripped threads, which would be
the other symptom of this having been put in and over torqued. What happened
when you put in a new bolt? Did it spin, too?
Rick Girard
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Dave <daberti@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Are you sure that it did not get that way when it was removed. Did you
> check the installed thread engagement length against where the distortion
> occurred?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Fasching
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:08 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RotaxEngines-List: Bad Bolt
>
> Here is a bolt from the gear box of a 912ULS...factory new engine. Bolt was
> removed for box inspection and never re-installed. Looks like severe over
> torque or bad manufacturing, but Rotax could not have properly torqued the
> bolt because when I tried it the bolt would go in a certain distance and
> then just spin without ever tightening.
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
John:
This is real crazy and not in a good way.
The bolt - Allen Head Cap Screw - looks like it is plated. Either Nickel or
Chrome. And in my plating days I have seen the same mis-shaped threads
Happen because of poor electrical contact where the wire was attached to the
screw.
Notice the shape of the threads in the reduced area. They profile
the original. right down to the crown. Just that the MAX Diameter is not
correct.
This can happen during plating, since in the cleaning process they use
reverse current. Add that to a poor wire contact and that is what you will
see.
NEXT - Possibility - I can not tell from the picture very well, but, measure
the distance over the thread crests. See if they get wider.
This would be a good indication that the screw was over torqued
and stretched.
Barry
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:08 PM, John Fasching <n29cx@ridgeviewtel.us>wrote:
> Here is a bolt from the gear box of a 912ULS...factory new engine. Bolt
> was removed for box inspection and never re-installed.
>
> Looks like severe over torque or bad manufacturing, but Rotax could not
> have properly torqued the bolt because when I tried it the bolt would go in
> a
>
> certain distance and then just spin without ever tightening.
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
No, a replacement bolt went in and torqued up properly...I don't
understand it either, but it seems OK now....just some weird thing I
though folks might be interested in and perhaps know the reason...it
came out readily without any excessive force - same as its mate on the
other side of the gear box.
JohnF
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Bad Bolt
Spins without ever tightening? Sounds like stripped threads, which
would be the other symptom of this having been put in and over torqued.
What happened when you put in a new bolt? Did it spin, too?
Rick Girard
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Dave <daberti@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Are you sure that it did not get that way when it was removed. Did
you check the installed thread engagement length against where the
distortion occurred?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Fasching
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:08 PM
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Bad Bolt
Here is a bolt from the gear box of a 912ULS...factory new engine.
Bolt was removed for box inspection and never re-installed. Looks like
severe over torque or bad manufacturing, but Rotax could not have
properly torqued the bolt because when I tried it the bolt would go in a
certain distance and then just spin without ever tightening.
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be
unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi All
If you reply to a post such as this please remove the large picture &
large amounts of text from original attached post as Mats guide lines, I
thought I was still on dial up after 4 copies, some of us can only get
snail band 0.5 meg or less.
John
Is the eroded part of the bolt at a place where two parts join or is
in a place open to internals of gear box ? if so could be caused by
corrosion.
You say it only went in part way & spun so the threads down to this
point must be stripped, did the protruding part have sufficient length
left that sufficient thread are left for new bolt to hold safely?.
Clive
----- Original Message -----
From: John Fasching
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Bad Bolt
No, a replacement bolt went in and torqued up properly...I don't
understand it either, but it seems OK now....just some weird thing I
though folks might be interested in and perhaps know the reason...it
came out readily without any excessive force - same as its mate on the
other side of the gear box.
JohnF
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Bad Bolt
Spins without ever tightening? Sounds like stripped threads, which
would be the other symptom of this having been put in and over torqued.
What happened when you put in a new bolt? Did it spin, too?
Rick Girard
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Dave <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
Are you sure that it did not get that way when it was removed.
Did you check the installed thread engagement length against where the
distortion occurred?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Fasching
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:08 PM
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Bad Bolt
Here is a bolt from the gear box of a 912ULS...factory new
engine. Bolt was removed for box inspection and never re-installed.
Looks like severe over torque or bad manufacturing, but Rotax could not
have properly torqued the bolt because when I tried it the bolt would go
in a certain distance and then just spin without ever tightening.Kolb
Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to
be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
GOOD POINT Clive.
ALSO Gaggle.. I have noticed there becomes a few responses that are NOT
attached to the original post. Keeping a thread can become a bit garbled
when responses are NOT done on the SAME post.
Just good educate... Not that I'm PC or anything like that.
Barry
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Clive Richards <
s.clive.richards@homecall.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi All
> If you reply to a post such as this please remove the large picture & large
> amounts of text from original attached post as Mats guide lines, I thought I
> was still on dial up after 4 copies, some of us can only get snail band 0.5
> meg or less.
> John
> Is the eroded part of the bolt at a place where two parts join or is in
> a place open to internals of gear box ? if so could be caused by corrosion.
> You say it only went in part way & spun so the threads down to this
> point must be stripped, did the protruding part have sufficient length left
> that sufficient thread are left for new bolt to hold safely?.
>
> Clive
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* John Fasching <n29cx@ridgeviewtel.us>
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:57 PM
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: Bad Bolt
>
> No, a replacement bolt went in and torqued up properly...I don't understand
> it either, but it seems OK now....just some weird thing I though folks might
> be interested in and perhaps know the reason...it came out readily without
> any excessive force - same as its mate on the other side of the gear box.
>
> JohnF
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:33 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: Bad Bolt
>
> Spins without ever tightening? Sounds like stripped threads, which would be
> the other symptom of this having been put in and over torqued. What happened
> when you put in a new bolt? Did it spin, too?
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Dave <daberti@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Are you sure that it did not get that way when it was removed. Did you
>> check the installed thread engagement length against where the distortion
>> occurred?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John
>> Fasching
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:08 PM
>> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RotaxEngines-List: Bad Bolt
>>
>> Here is a bolt from the gear box of a 912ULS...factory new engine. Bolt
>> was removed for box inspection and never re-installed. Looks like severe
>> over torque or bad manufacturing, but Rotax could not have properly torqued
>> the bolt because when I tried it the bolt would go in a certain distance and
>> then just spin without ever tightening.Kolb Mk IIIC
>>
>> 582 Gray head
> 4.00 C gearbox
> 3 blade WD
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be
> unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
> - G.K. Chesterton
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Guys,
I agree about replying to post. Use the "reply" tab at the top or bottom of the
page. Don't use the quote tab. Some of these post are terribly long to scroll
through to read the other persons answer.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310232#310232
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BRS chute repack time table |
Hi All, The 6 year time is closing for a huge group of us.
I wrote this for another website, but because this site has many LSA aircraft here
and of many different types I thought this may be a good place to spread the
word.
Okay here is the scoop right from Dereck at BRS.
First they are just coming into the repack times for SLSA. Yes they have been doing
some from the Ultralight fliers and some from the GA world. These groups
are of two different mind sets. Tell an Ultralight flier they need 6 weeks and
he's good to go. Tell a GA pilot that and they grumble over a week. So the truth
will lie in the middle. They are just now getting to the repack times for
SLSA and we and they know that starting in 2011 some will start to trickle in.
We both know that in 2012 that they will be swamped as they have never been before
in their history. So time may run from 2-4 weeks to be realistic. 3 weeks
may be a good bet. They will have hundreds to do in 2012 and in 2013. We talked
about a way to help this process and make it as quick as possible. First don't
wait until the last day of the month it is due to send it in. Plan out at
least 2 months. Then call them and make a tentative appoint or time that yours
will show up. this helps them plan for parts and personnel availability instead
of getting caught off guard when they come to work Monday morning. It takes
at least 3-4 days to repack. They have to open and inspect every inch of the
chute. They then refold it and use a ram with tons of pressure to press it into
a jig. Then it gets baked at 170F for 16 hrs. Then it cools for at least 4
+ hrs. So if you have limited staff, get hit with a ton of chutes all at one time,
get wiped out on parts and have a week of shipping from you and a week back
to you, you will have 3-4 weeks of down time. We breached the idea of a chute
swap, i.e. as yours come in then you may get someone elses and out the door
it goes in a round robin. I personally didn't like the idea because I don't know
how the other chute was taken care of. The other guy's may have sat on the
ramp all its life and mine was in a nice dry climate hanger. So I don't think
this may go over that well.
The cost will be around $1K give or take $100. Just remember some of this is new
for everyone. The owner and BRS know the first LSA's are just now starting to
come due. They said after things start rolling maybe they can get a better handle
on the actual large scale influx of LSA chutes.
The key here is to plan ahead and don't procrastinate when you are getting close.
There are not only CT's out there, but other LSA to consider in this repack time
table.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310234#310234
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BRS chute repack time table |
My Galaxy BRS expired at the end of 2009.
I had to take it apart, remove the rocket, and fire the trigger.
I shipped it regular ground to SportFlyingShop.com that is the US dealer.
They had it repackaged in the Czech Republic at the factory.
It came back in a metal cage to comply with hazardous shipment rules.
It costed $1,800, including shipping and it took 7 weeks.
The new BRS came with a nine years expiration.
-- Silvano
On 8/26/10 4:04 PM, Roger Lee wrote:
> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee"<ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi All, The 6 year time is closing for a huge group of us.
>
> I wrote this for another website, but because this site has many LSA aircraft
here and of many different types I thought this may be a good place to spread
the word.
>
>
> Okay here is the scoop right from Dereck at BRS.
> First they are just coming into the repack times for SLSA. Yes they have been
doing some from the Ultralight fliers and some from the GA world. These groups
are of two different mind sets. Tell an Ultralight flier they need 6 weeks and
he's good to go. Tell a GA pilot that and they grumble over a week. So the
truth will lie in the middle. They are just now getting to the repack times for
SLSA and we and they know that starting in 2011 some will start to trickle in.
We both know that in 2012 that they will be swamped as they have never been
before in their history. So time may run from 2-4 weeks to be realistic. 3 weeks
may be a good bet. They will have hundreds to do in 2012 and in 2013. We talked
about a way to help this process and make it as quick as possible. First
don't wait until the last day of the month it is due to send it in. Plan out
at least 2 months. Then call them and make a tentative appoint or time that yours
will show up. this helps them plan for parts and p!
>
> ersonnel availability instead of getting caught off guard when they come to
work Monday morning. It takes at least 3-4 days to repack. They have to open
and inspect every inch of the chute. They then refold it and use a ram with tons
of pressure to press it into a jig. Then it gets baked at 170F for 16 hrs.
Then it cools for at least 4 + hrs. So if you have limited staff, get hit with
a ton of chutes all at one time, get wiped out on parts and have a week of shipping
from you and a week back to you, you will have 3-4 weeks of down time.
We breached the idea of a chute swap, i.e. as yours come in then you may get someone
elses and out the door it goes in a round robin. I personally didn't like
the idea because I don't know how the other chute was taken care of. The other
guy's may have sat on the ramp all its life and mine was in a nice dry climate
hanger. So I don't think this may go over that well.
> The cost will be around $1K give or take $100. Just remember some of this is
new for everyone. The owner and BRS know the first LSA's are just now starting
to come due. They said after things start rolling maybe they can get a better
handle on the actual large scale influx of LSA chutes.
>
> The key here is to plan ahead and don't procrastinate when you are getting close.
> There are not only CT's out there, but other LSA to consider in this repack time
table.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310234#310234
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BRS chute repack time table |
If there was ever an argument against these D*** A** things, this is it.
Frankly, there are only two ways I would keep a BRS on my airplane, my wife
wouldn't let me fly without it, or the minimum equipment list and the
aircraft manual make it a requirement to keep the aircraft's airworthiness
certificate. If either makes the BRS optional, let the silly thing rot and
put that money and time into flight training.
Just for the record, I do have one on my Kolb. It was on there when I bought
the plane and I've left it on for weight and balance reasons. And while I'm
doing mea culpas, I've also saved my life with a hand deploy 'chute when I
was hang gliding. That being admitted to, the minute I get the new rudder
built and the flutter issues are over, the BRS will be on eBay. Never
forget, 2/3 of BRS is BS.
Just my personal opinion and an excuse to rant......
Let the flames begin.......
Rick Girard
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Silvano Gai <pilot@ip6.com> wrote:
>
> My Galaxy BRS expired at the end of 2009.
>
> I had to take it apart, remove the rocket, and fire the trigger.
> I shipped it regular ground to SportFlyingShop.com that is the US dealer.
> They had it repackaged in the Czech Republic at the factory.
> It came back in a metal cage to comply with hazardous shipment rules.
> It costed $1,800, including shipping and it took 7 weeks.
> The new BRS came with a nine years expiration.
>
> -- Silvano
>
>
> On 8/26/10 4:04 PM, Roger Lee wrote:
>
>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee"<ssadiver1@yahoo.com
>> >
>>
>> Hi All, The 6 year time is closing for a huge group of us.
>>
>> I wrote this for another website, but because this site has many LSA
>> aircraft here and of many different types I thought this may be a good place
>> to spread the word.
>>
>>
>> Okay here is the scoop right from Dereck at BRS.
>> First they are just coming into the repack times for SLSA. Yes they have
>> been doing some from the Ultralight fliers and some from the GA world. These
>> groups are of two different mind sets. Tell an Ultralight flier they need 6
>> weeks and he's good to go. Tell a GA pilot that and they grumble over a
>> week. So the truth will lie in the middle. They are just now getting to the
>> repack times for SLSA and we and they know that starting in 2011 some will
>> start to trickle in. We both know that in 2012 that they will be swamped as
>> they have never been before in their history. So time may run from 2-4 weeks
>> to be realistic. 3 weeks may be a good bet. They will have hundreds to do in
>> 2012 and in 2013. We talked about a way to help this process and make it as
>> quick as possible. First don't wait until the last day of the month it is
>> due to send it in. Plan out at least 2 months. Then call them and make a
>> tentative appoint or time that yours will show up. this helps them plan for
>> parts and!
>>
> p!
>
>>
>> ersonnel availability instead of getting caught off guard when they come
>> to work Monday morning. It takes at least 3-4 days to repack. They have to
>> open and inspect every inch of the chute. They then refold it and use a ram
>> with tons of pressure to press it into a jig. Then it gets baked at 170F for
>> 16 hrs. Then it cools for at least 4 + hrs. So if you have limited staff,
>> get hit with a ton of chutes all at one time, get wiped out on parts and
>> have a week of shipping from you and a week back to you, you will have 3-4
>> weeks of down time. We breached the idea of a chute swap, i.e. as yours come
>> in then you may get someone elses and out the door it goes in a round robin.
>> I personally didn't like the idea because I don't know how the other chute
>> was taken care of. The other guy's may have sat on the ramp all its life and
>> mine was in a nice dry climate hanger. So I don't think this may go over
>> that well.
>> The cost will be around $1K give or take $100. Just remember some of this
>> is new for everyone. The owner and BRS know the first LSA's are just now
>> starting to come due. They said after things start rolling maybe they can
>> get a better handle on the actual large scale influx of LSA chutes.
>>
>> The key here is to plan ahead and don't procrastinate when you are getting
>> close.
>> There are not only CT's out there, but other LSA to consider in this
>> repack time table.
>>
>> --------
>> Roger Lee
>> Tucson, Az.
>> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
>> Rotax Repair Center
>> 520-574-1080
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310234#310234
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|