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1. 01:02 PM - Re: Water in the fuel question (Roger Lee)
2. 05:59 PM - Re: Water in the fuel question (FLYaDIVE)
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| Subject: | Re: Water in the fuel question |
Hi Thom,
This is kind of ones of those thought provoking questions.
In theory you are right and it would burn through the engine, but it can cause
other issues at total saturation.
My answer is from Rotax. This is what Rotax wants. The more water you have in the
fuel the better chance of icing, corrosion within the engine and a higher than
normal chance of falling out of solution at higher altitudes if it is that
saturated. I have seen the pitting that water does internally and it is very
noticeable if water has been sitting in the bottom of the carb bowl.
The 91 Oct. with ethanol with water will run through the engine, but at some point,
Total saturation, other problems will emerge. So yes we can have some water
in the fuel and not even know it and it will burn through and we won't even
know, but at some point it can get to be too much and this is where Rotax draws
the line.
I try to stick most of the time with what Rotax teaches in schools, but once in
a while I do bend those rules, but I have to have solid research behind me or
experience before I do bend those rules.
This item was one of our discussions in my Rotax update school. I just thought
I would throw it out and see what popped up and hoped for some good conversations.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311567#311567
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Water in the fuel question |
Roger:
Too many questions :-)
1 - 100LL should have the least amount of contaminates due to
the SUPPOSED quality control.
2 - 100LL may have more water due to the DIFFERENT types of storage and the
age of the tanks [above ground & below ground].
3 - 100LL may have more water due to the quantity of fuel being sold... Ever
notice the airports will NEVER tell you how many gallons they sell a week.
4 - Some planes have much more of a problem with water than others. I
have quite a few hours in a Piper Cherokee and Comanche as well as a RV6 and
all three of them have the flush mounted gas caps. And all of them have
water in the tanks.
I would LQQK first and blame first the gas cap before blaming the 100LL. It
is a well know trick to put a patch of plastic Velcro On top of the gas cap
and the other half on the inside of a 1 Lb coffee can lid. This does a lot
to keep water out.
------------------------- AutoGas -------------------
5 - MoGas - Has it own problems - The first being The Cheep Ass -
Money Grubbing - Low Life - Non-English speaking owners that put water into
their tanks to cut price during Gas Wars. There was a gas station in my
area that was closed by the Bureau of Weights & Measures for just that
reason about one year after being closed because of illegal pumps (shorting
the public). The next issue was water in the gas.
6 - MoGas - Probably does have higher levels of contaminates due to lower
quality control of EVERYTHING from octant to transportation, storage and
dispensing.
7 - MoGas - Should have lower contaminates due to the higher turn-over.
8 - MoGas - In my area the wise old government made it a requirement that
ALL in-ground-tanks must be a fiberglass or plastic composition. This came
to light when the wise old government made it a requirement that MTBE be
used to reduce pollutant at the un-tested request of the EPA. The MTBE
found all the small holes in the gas tanks and polluted the ground waters as
well as making pump-jockeys sick. Now when theses pump-jockey's started
reporting to hospitals for treatment the CDC (Center for Disease Control)
was first contacted because of the wide spread and similarity of cases.
Some financial saving that was!
9 - MoGas - and who else other than the wise old government made it a
requirement in my area NJ-NY that ethanol be added to the gas. 10% less
HP, 10% Less fuel economy and 100% more problems. Just ask the boating
industry in coastal ares that ethanol is suppled.
OK! Enough - But, as Roger mentioned water is NOT absorbed. It IS held
in SUSPENSION. And it takes about 15 minutes for water to come out
of suspension, IF there is no movement. So, what does that tell you....
Checking your freshly filled tanks does not show if there is water in your
gas. Of course, if there is enough water you sure will see it.
AND... Some one mentioned 'solution' it is NOT a solution, it is
a suspension. There is NO chemical combining of water and gas.
The ethanol IS in solution the water is in suspension. The ethanol in
solution is a mixture, forming a total different compound.
Now, water can be a good thing... There is a way of ethanol removal from
gas.
WATER - As someone did mention ethanol is hygroscopic. That means the
ethanol will adsorb water. So...
Lets say you have a gas with 10% ethanol...
ADD 10% of the gas volume in water... 10 Gal Gas = 1 Gal water.
Shake it up...
Let it stand for 1 hour...
>From the bottom of the container drain off the water... Which
is heavier than the gas/ethanol mixture...
Which will have the Water with the ethanol attached to it.
Works in the lab all the time.
OK, sorry.... this is the end.
Barry
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,,
>
> Question:
>
> Which fuel are you more likely to see water in, 100LL or our present day 91
> Oct when you catch your sample down at the gascolator? Why?
>
> p.s.
> If you find it in one verses the other what should yo do?
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311301#311301
>
>
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