Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:19 AM - Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side (Thom Riddle)
2. 05:14 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (FLYaDIVE)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys)
4. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys)
5. 06:36 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys)
6. 07:09 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Pete Christensen)
7. 07:14 AM - Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side (lucien)
8. 07:20 AM - Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side (Thom Riddle)
9. 07:28 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (AmphibFlyer)
10. 08:25 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
11. 04:55 PM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys)
12. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side (Noel Loveys)
13. 05:23 PM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side |
Lucien,
I don't know the spec you ask for but had no problems with the 912UL Titan I used
to own and I let the fuel get way too low on one flight. I think it was about
1.5 gallons remaining when I landed, and this was in a custom aluminum tank
with the bottom of the tank at about the bottom of the boom tube (straddling
the tube). I used a Facet aux pump for take-off and landing.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315694#315694
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... |
Gaggle:
This is not a political forum. In a political forum they
argue semantics and how to take the money and freedoms away from
the populous.
Here WE are the populous and we have a common bond and a love for aviation.
But what WE don't have is what the politicians have and that is a UNITED
FRONT.
Chris, if YOU and everyone else that loves aviation doesn't get their heads
out of the sand there is not going to be a General Aviation. "Those that
want it and fight for it will get it." It does not matter if it is your
rights to fly or their rights to tax you. If you don't pull your head out
of the sand we all loose.
As I said before, the government learned a TRICK. Why fight a head-on
battle; when you can attack from the soft underside - MONEY. Make gas so
expensive that GA just dwindles away.
Then what do you do with all those airports? Open spaced, flat land, good
location, airports? You turn them into CONDOS, HIGH TAX PAYING CONDOS. On
a hunk of land that is EASY to build upon. Very easy, because the land is
open spaced, flat land in a good location. AND building expenses are lower
because of it. GO AHEAD ASK ME? How do I know?
I don't want this to become a political debate. Because it won't mean CRAP
<-- got that Chris!
I want everyone to understand how things are changing. The book of rules
has been re-written.
And you don't know it yet.
Barry
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 10:30 PM, chris davis <capedavis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> please take this non rotax crap off the matronics rotax engine list
> ,thank you
>
> Chris Davis
> KXP 503 492 hrs
> Glider Pilot
> Disabled from crash building Firefly
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... |
Ethanol has been around for many years. If memory serves me right back in
the early seventies it was called gasohol. It was so popular that, pardon
the pun, it died on the vine. The reason it, like a bad dream, has returned
is the octane booster MTBE was found to be able to remain in the ground for
long periods of time and it is carcinogenic. The idea of replacing MTBE was
probably a good one replacing it with ethanol was a fools solution.
Ethanol must go but the oil industry has to find a decent replacement...
OR... the engine manufacturers need to design engines that will run
efficiently on low octane fuel. Note the word efficiently.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les
Goldner
Sent: October 13, 2010 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
ethanol...
I don't think that this is an appropriate forum for your political views
Silvano. but wasn't it the previous administration that approved ethanol?
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Blumax008@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
ethanol...
Silvano...Me too! Engine failures.
They're not going to be happy until they've (Democrats) totally wrecked the
country. Nov. 2nd. Don't forget.
NOVEMBER SECOND!
In a message dated 10/13/2010 12:32:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pilot@ip6.com writes:
I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft that
has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone.
Be careful
-- Silvano
On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote:
> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by:
"Tucsonchris"<gallchrisa@qwest.net>
>
> Wonder what Rotax will say about this----
>
>
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.h
tml?x=0
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567
>
>
>========================= Use utilities Day ======================
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================= - List
Contribution Web Site sp;
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... |
We can hope that there will be lead free avgas but do you really want to
trust to that? You are right though about ethanol not being a true
renewable resource as it is being produced in North America. Here I have
ben told it actually requires around four gallons of diesel fuel to produce
1 gallon of ethanol. Doesn't make any sense does it. We would be much
better producing more diesel engines and small turbines than trying to grow
more corn on diminishing quantities of out of production farmland.
I still think it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease and if enough
people stand up and get counted as being against the use of ethanol in fuel
then the powers to be not wanting to become the powers that were will
capitulate.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucien
Sent: October 13, 2010 8:39 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Just when you were getting used to 10%
ethanol...
What's so funny about this is ethanol is _not_ a renewable fuel because it's
not (self) sustainable. It requires a lot of petroleum to produce and in
fact increases our dependence on petroleum.
Apart from that, concerning E15, I think and hope that it'll be simply
another choice along with E10. If that's the case, we should be ok as long
as E10 is still available.
If however they just force all gas to be E15, well, Rotax will be right back
at square one having to test it and go through the whole process again.....
Maybe by then an unleaded avgas will have been approved and start showing up
at airports?
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315657#315657
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| Subject: | Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... |
BTW Pete how many hours do you have on washed gas now? Any problems? Are
you still using 100LL from time to time?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Christensen
Sent: October 13, 2010 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
ethanol...
<pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
That's why I "wash" my gas to remove ethanol.
Pete
On 10/13/2010 11:28 AM, Silvano Gai wrote:
>
>
> I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft
> that has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone.
>
> Be careful
>
> -- Silvano
>
> On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote:
>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by:
>> "Tucsonchris"<gallchrisa@qwest.net>
>>
>> Wonder what Rotax will say about this----
>>
>>
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.h
tml?x=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... |
Noel,
Without doing much math, I've burned 100-120 gallons of washed gas.
I've only had to use 1/2 tank of 100LL lately and that was on a long
overnight cross country filling up for the trip home. I have had NO
problems and my 912 keeps on ticking over smoothly.
Pete
On 10/14/2010 8:31 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> BTW Pete how many hours do you have on washed gas now? Any problems? Are
> you still using 100LL from time to time?
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
> Christensen
> Sent: October 13, 2010 9:03 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
> ethanol...
>
> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Pete Christensen
> <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>
> That's why I "wash" my gas to remove ethanol.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 10/13/2010 11:28 AM, Silvano Gai wrote:
>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Silvano Gai<pilot@ip6.com>
>>
>>
>> I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft
>> that has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone.
>>
>> Be careful
>>
>> -- Silvano
>>
>> On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote:
>>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by:
>>> "Tucsonchris"<gallchrisa@qwest.net>
>>>
>>> Wonder what Rotax will say about this----
>>>
>>>
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.h
> tml?x=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side |
Thom Riddle wrote:
> Lucien,
>
> I don't know the spec you ask for but had no problems with the 912UL Titan I
used to own and I let the fuel get way too low on one flight. I think it was about
1.5 gallons remaining when I landed, and this was in a custom aluminum tank
with the bottom of the tank at about the bottom of the boom tube (straddling
the tube). I used a Facet aux pump for take-off and landing.
Hi Thom,
Ok, thanks for the info. The addition of the boost pump is exactly the scenario
I'm wondering about. It's not practical for me to put it in parallel, there's
just not enough room for all the plumbing. So I have to put it in series before
the mechanical pump.
The thing I'm wondering about is the extra flow resistance of the pump when it's
off - it's not terrible, but it's quite noticeable - and if that might make
an already borderline situation when the fuel level is low even more marginal
with the additional drag of the pump (yeah I know I can just turn the pump on,
but that's not really what I'm wondering about ;)).
I'm just wondering how much margin I have with the approx. 2' or so of fuel lift
in the occassional events where I may have low fuel levels to start with.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315712#315712
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side |
Lucien,
I don't remember if my Facet was in parallel or series (I didn't build it) but
do know that I forgot to use the Facet occasionally on take-off and landings and
never had any problems.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315713#315713
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... |
Blumax008(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> They're not going to be happy until they've (Democrats) totally wrecked the
country. Nov. 2nd. Don't forget.
Better keep your politics to yourself, Blumax008. People with only right wings
are doomed to fly in descending circles--better known as graveyard spirals.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315715#315715
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... |
Good one Noel. This is important if only because Avgas will be phased out a
nd =0Athen where will the Lycosaurus engines be?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________=0AFrom: Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
=0ATo: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, 14 October, 2010 1
4:13:49=0ASubject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used t
o 10% =0Aethanol...=0A=0A =0AEthanol has been around for many years. If me
mory serves me right back in the =0Aearly seventies it was called gasohol.
It was so popular that, pardon the pun, =0Ait died on the vine. The reaso
n it, like a bad dream, has returned is the =0Aoctane booster MTBE was foun
d to be able to remain in the ground for long =0Aperiods of time and it is
carcinogenic. The idea of replacing MTBE was probably =0Aa good one replac
ing it with ethanol was a fools solution. =0A=0A =0AEthanol must go but the
oil industry has to find a decent replacement... OR... =0Athe engine manuf
acturers need to design engines that will run efficiently on low =0Aoctane
fuel. Note the word efficiently.=0A =0ANoel=0A =0AFrom:owner-rotaxengines-
list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matroni
cs.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner=0ASent: October 13, 2010 2:50 PM=0ATo: rot
axengines-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when yo
u were getting used to 10% =0Aethanol...=0A =0AI don=99t think that t
his is an appropriate forum for your political views =0ASilvano bu
t wasn=99t it the previous administration that approved ethanol?=0A
=0AFrom:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-rotax
engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =0ABlumax008@aol.com=0ASent
: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:56 AM=0ATo: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
=0Aethanol...=0A =0ASilvano...Me too! Engine failures.=0A =0AThey're not go
ing to be happy until they've (Democrats) totally wrecked the =0Acountry. N
ov. 2nd. Don't forget.=0A =0ANOVEMBER SECOND!=0A =0AIn a message dated 10/1
3/2010 12:32:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pilot@ip6.com =0Awrites:=0A-->
RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Silvano Gai <pilot@ip6.com>=0A>=0A>=0A
>I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft that
=0A>has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone.=0A>=0A>
Be careful=0A>=0A>-- Silvano=0A>=0A>On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote:
=0A>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Tucsonchris"<gallchrisa@qw
est.net>=0A>>=0A>> Wonder what Rotax will say about this----=0A>>=0A>>http:
//finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.html?
x=0=0A>>0=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> Read this topic online here:=0A>>=0A>>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>
=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>===========
============== Use utilities Day ====
=================== =0A>
>- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =================
====== - List Contribution =0A>>Web Site sp;
==0A>=0A>=0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RotaxEngines-List=0A =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0A =0Ahttp://ww
w.matronics.com/contribution=0A =0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.mat
=== =0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... |
I take it you are leaving lots of time for the water to settle out
completely. Are you draining from the bottom or siphoning?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Christensen
Sent: October 14, 2010 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
ethanol...
<pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
Noel,
Without doing much math, I've burned 100-120 gallons of washed gas.
I've only had to use 1/2 tank of 100LL lately and that was on a long
overnight cross country filling up for the trip home. I have had NO
problems and my 912 keeps on ticking over smoothly.
Pete
On 10/14/2010 8:31 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Noel
Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> BTW Pete how many hours do you have on washed gas now? Any problems? Are
> you still using 100LL from time to time?
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
> Christensen
> Sent: October 13, 2010 9:03 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
> ethanol...
>
> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Pete Christensen
> <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>
> That's why I "wash" my gas to remove ethanol.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 10/13/2010 11:28 AM, Silvano Gai wrote:
>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Silvano Gai<pilot@ip6.com>
>>
>>
>> I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft
>> that has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone.
>>
>> Be careful
>>
>> -- Silvano
>>
>> On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote:
>>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by:
>>> "Tucsonchris"<gallchrisa@qwest.net>
>>>
>>> Wonder what Rotax will say about this----
>>>
>>>
>
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.h
> tml?x=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side |
In order to make sure fuel gets to the 912 mechanical pump place the electric Facett
low, close to but downstream of the gascolator. That should be the lowest
point of your system. Don't forget to turn the facet on for landing as well
as take off just encase of a go around. The Cessna C185 I worked on had a switch
which automatically turned on the boost pump with full throttle.. There
was also an override switch which would operate the pump at less than full throttle.
That may be a good idea for you to rig.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: October 14, 2010 11:48 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side
Lucien,
I don't remember if my Facet was in parallel or series (I didn't build it) but
do know that I forgot to use the Facet occasionally on take-off and landings and
never had any problems.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315713#315713
Message 13
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| Subject: | Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... |
Don=99t forget there are still a lot of P&W, Continental, Jacobs
and even Franklins still flying. Remove all access to 100LL and you
ground almost all historical engines. The Lancaster which flies to
Florida every year is owned and operated out of Hamilton Ontario. I
guess without gas it will just stay there.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRAHAM SINGLETON
Sent: October 14, 2010 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
ethanol...
Good one Noel. This is important if only because Avgas will be phased
out and then where will the Lycosaurus engines be?
Graham
_____
From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, 14 October, 2010 14:13:49
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
ethanol...
Ethanol has been around for many years. If memory serves me right back
in the early seventies it was called gasohol. It was so popular that,
pardon the pun, it died on the vine. The reason it, like a bad dream,
has returned is the octane booster MTBE was found to be able to remain
in the ground for long periods of time and it is carcinogenic. The idea
of replacing MTBE was probably a good one replacing it with ethanol was
a fools solution.
Ethanol must go but the oil industry has to find a decent replacement...
OR... the engine manufacturers need to design engines that will run
efficiently on low octane fuel. Note the word efficiently.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les
Goldner
Sent: October 13, 2010 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
ethanol...
I don=99t think that this is an appropriate forum for your
political views Silvano but wasn=99t it the previous
administration that approved ethanol?
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Blumax008@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10%
ethanol...
Silvano...Me too! Engine failures.
They're not going to be happy until they've (Democrats) totally wrecked
the country. Nov. 2nd. Don't forget.
NOVEMBER SECOND!
In a message dated 10/13/2010 12:32:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pilot@ip6.com writes:
I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft that
has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone.
Be careful
-- Silvano
On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote:
> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by:
"Tucsonchris"<gallchrisa@qwest.net>
>
> Wonder what Rotax will say about this----
>
>
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-121089553
6.html?x=0
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567
>
>
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