---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/14/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:19 AM - Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side (Thom Riddle) 2. 05:14 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (FLYaDIVE) 3. 06:16 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys) 4. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys) 5. 06:36 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys) 6. 07:09 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Pete Christensen) 7. 07:14 AM - Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side (lucien) 8. 07:20 AM - Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side (Thom Riddle) 9. 07:28 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (AmphibFlyer) 10. 08:25 AM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 11. 04:55 PM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys) 12. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side (Noel Loveys) 13. 05:23 PM - Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:02 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side From: "Thom Riddle" Lucien, I don't know the spec you ask for but had no problems with the 912UL Titan I used to own and I let the fuel get way too low on one flight. I think it was about 1.5 gallons remaining when I landed, and this was in a custom aluminum tank with the bottom of the tank at about the bottom of the boom tube (straddling the tube). I used a Facet aux pump for take-off and landing. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. Daniel Patrick Moynihan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315694#315694 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... From: FLYaDIVE Gaggle: This is not a political forum. In a political forum they argue semantics and how to take the money and freedoms away from the populous. Here WE are the populous and we have a common bond and a love for aviation. But what WE don't have is what the politicians have and that is a UNITED FRONT. Chris, if YOU and everyone else that loves aviation doesn't get their heads out of the sand there is not going to be a General Aviation. "Those that want it and fight for it will get it." It does not matter if it is your rights to fly or their rights to tax you. If you don't pull your head out of the sand we all loose. As I said before, the government learned a TRICK. Why fight a head-on battle; when you can attack from the soft underside - MONEY. Make gas so expensive that GA just dwindles away. Then what do you do with all those airports? Open spaced, flat land, good location, airports? You turn them into CONDOS, HIGH TAX PAYING CONDOS. On a hunk of land that is EASY to build upon. Very easy, because the land is open spaced, flat land in a good location. AND building expenses are lower because of it. GO AHEAD ASK ME? How do I know? I don't want this to become a political debate. Because it won't mean CRAP <-- got that Chris! I want everyone to understand how things are changing. The book of rules has been re-written. And you don't know it yet. Barry On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 10:30 PM, chris davis wrote: > please take this non rotax crap off the matronics rotax engine list > ,thank you > > Chris Davis > KXP 503 492 hrs > Glider Pilot > Disabled from crash building Firefly > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:37 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... Ethanol has been around for many years. If memory serves me right back in the early seventies it was called gasohol. It was so popular that, pardon the pun, it died on the vine. The reason it, like a bad dream, has returned is the octane booster MTBE was found to be able to remain in the ground for long periods of time and it is carcinogenic. The idea of replacing MTBE was probably a good one replacing it with ethanol was a fools solution. Ethanol must go but the oil industry has to find a decent replacement... OR... the engine manufacturers need to design engines that will run efficiently on low octane fuel. Note the word efficiently. Noel From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner Sent: October 13, 2010 2:50 PM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... I don't think that this is an appropriate forum for your political views Silvano. but wasn't it the previous administration that approved ethanol? From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Blumax008@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:56 AM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... Silvano...Me too! Engine failures. They're not going to be happy until they've (Democrats) totally wrecked the country. Nov. 2nd. Don't forget. NOVEMBER SECOND! In a message dated 10/13/2010 12:32:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pilot@ip6.com writes: I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft that has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone. Be careful -- Silvano On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote: > --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Tucsonchris" > > Wonder what Rotax will say about this---- > > http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.h tml?x=0 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567 > > >========================= Use utilities Day ====================== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================= - List Contribution Web Site sp; http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:41 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... We can hope that there will be lead free avgas but do you really want to trust to that? You are right though about ethanol not being a true renewable resource as it is being produced in North America. Here I have ben told it actually requires around four gallons of diesel fuel to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. Doesn't make any sense does it. We would be much better producing more diesel engines and small turbines than trying to grow more corn on diminishing quantities of out of production farmland. I still think it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease and if enough people stand up and get counted as being against the use of ethanol in fuel then the powers to be not wanting to become the powers that were will capitulate. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucien Sent: October 13, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... What's so funny about this is ethanol is _not_ a renewable fuel because it's not (self) sustainable. It requires a lot of petroleum to produce and in fact increases our dependence on petroleum. Apart from that, concerning E15, I think and hope that it'll be simply another choice along with E10. If that's the case, we should be ok as long as E10 is still available. If however they just force all gas to be E15, well, Rotax will be right back at square one having to test it and go through the whole process again..... Maybe by then an unleaded avgas will have been approved and start showing up at airports? LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315657#315657 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:01 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... BTW Pete how many hours do you have on washed gas now? Any problems? Are you still using 100LL from time to time? Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Christensen Sent: October 13, 2010 9:03 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... That's why I "wash" my gas to remove ethanol. Pete On 10/13/2010 11:28 AM, Silvano Gai wrote: > > > I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft > that has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone. > > Be careful > > -- Silvano > > On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote: >> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: >> "Tucsonchris" >> >> Wonder what Rotax will say about this---- >> >> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.h tml?x=0 >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:15 AM PST US From: Pete Christensen Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... Noel, Without doing much math, I've burned 100-120 gallons of washed gas. I've only had to use 1/2 tank of 100LL lately and that was on a long overnight cross country filling up for the trip home. I have had NO problems and my 912 keeps on ticking over smoothly. Pete On 10/14/2010 8:31 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > BTW Pete how many hours do you have on washed gas now? Any problems? Are > you still using 100LL from time to time? > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete > Christensen > Sent: October 13, 2010 9:03 PM > To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% > ethanol... > > --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Pete Christensen > > > That's why I "wash" my gas to remove ethanol. > > Pete > > > On 10/13/2010 11:28 AM, Silvano Gai wrote: >> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Silvano Gai >> >> >> I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft >> that has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone. >> >> Be careful >> >> -- Silvano >> >> On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote: >>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: >>> "Tucsonchris" >>> >>> Wonder what Rotax will say about this---- >>> >>> > http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.h > tml?x=0 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:06 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side From: "lucien" Thom Riddle wrote: > Lucien, > > I don't know the spec you ask for but had no problems with the 912UL Titan I used to own and I let the fuel get way too low on one flight. I think it was about 1.5 gallons remaining when I landed, and this was in a custom aluminum tank with the bottom of the tank at about the bottom of the boom tube (straddling the tube). I used a Facet aux pump for take-off and landing. Hi Thom, Ok, thanks for the info. The addition of the boost pump is exactly the scenario I'm wondering about. It's not practical for me to put it in parallel, there's just not enough room for all the plumbing. So I have to put it in series before the mechanical pump. The thing I'm wondering about is the extra flow resistance of the pump when it's off - it's not terrible, but it's quite noticeable - and if that might make an already borderline situation when the fuel level is low even more marginal with the additional drag of the pump (yeah I know I can just turn the pump on, but that's not really what I'm wondering about ;)). I'm just wondering how much margin I have with the approx. 2' or so of fuel lift in the occassional events where I may have low fuel levels to start with. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315712#315712 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:05 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side From: "Thom Riddle" Lucien, I don't remember if my Facet was in parallel or series (I didn't build it) but do know that I forgot to use the Facet occasionally on take-off and landings and never had any problems. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. Daniel Patrick Moynihan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315713#315713 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:05 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... From: "AmphibFlyer" Blumax008(at)aol.com wrote: > > They're not going to be happy until they've (Democrats) totally wrecked the country. Nov. 2nd. Don't forget. Better keep your politics to yourself, Blumax008. People with only right wings are doomed to fly in descending circles--better known as graveyard spirals. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315715#315715 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:06 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... Good one Noel. This is important if only because Avgas will be phased out a nd =0Athen where will the Lycosaurus engines be?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________=0AFrom: Noel Loveys =0ATo: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, 14 October, 2010 1 4:13:49=0ASubject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used t o 10% =0Aethanol...=0A=0A =0AEthanol has been around for many years. If me mory serves me right back in the =0Aearly seventies it was called gasohol. It was so popular that, pardon the pun, =0Ait died on the vine. The reaso n it, like a bad dream, has returned is the =0Aoctane booster MTBE was foun d to be able to remain in the ground for long =0Aperiods of time and it is carcinogenic. The idea of replacing MTBE was probably =0Aa good one replac ing it with ethanol was a fools solution. =0A=0A =0AEthanol must go but the oil industry has to find a decent replacement... OR... =0Athe engine manuf acturers need to design engines that will run efficiently on low =0Aoctane fuel. Note the word efficiently.=0A =0ANoel=0A =0AFrom:owner-rotaxengines- list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matroni cs.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner=0ASent: October 13, 2010 2:50 PM=0ATo: rot axengines-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when yo u were getting used to 10% =0Aethanol...=0A =0AI don=99t think that t his is an appropriate forum for your political views =0ASilvano bu t wasn=99t it the previous administration that approved ethanol?=0A =0AFrom:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-rotax engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =0ABlumax008@aol.com=0ASent : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:56 AM=0ATo: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% =0Aethanol...=0A =0ASilvano...Me too! Engine failures.=0A =0AThey're not go ing to be happy until they've (Democrats) totally wrecked the =0Acountry. N ov. 2nd. Don't forget.=0A =0ANOVEMBER SECOND!=0A =0AIn a message dated 10/1 3/2010 12:32:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pilot@ip6.com =0Awrites:=0A--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Silvano Gai =0A>=0A>=0A >I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft that =0A>has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone.=0A>=0A> Be careful=0A>=0A>-- Silvano=0A>=0A>On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote: =0A>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Tucsonchris"=0A>>=0A>> Wonder what Rotax will say about this----=0A>>=0A>>http: //finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.html? x=0=0A>>0=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> Read this topic online here:=0A>>=0A>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=========== ============== Use utilities Day ==== =================== =0A> >- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================= ====== - List Contribution =0A>>Web Site sp; ==0A>=0A>=0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?RotaxEngines-List=0A =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0A =0Ahttp://ww w.matronics.com/contribution=0A =0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RotaxEngines-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.mat === =0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:35 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... I take it you are leaving lots of time for the water to settle out completely. Are you draining from the bottom or siphoning? Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Christensen Sent: October 14, 2010 11:37 AM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... Noel, Without doing much math, I've burned 100-120 gallons of washed gas. I've only had to use 1/2 tank of 100LL lately and that was on a long overnight cross country filling up for the trip home. I have had NO problems and my 912 keeps on ticking over smoothly. Pete On 10/14/2010 8:31 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > BTW Pete how many hours do you have on washed gas now? Any problems? Are > you still using 100LL from time to time? > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete > Christensen > Sent: October 13, 2010 9:03 PM > To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% > ethanol... > > --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Pete Christensen > > > That's why I "wash" my gas to remove ethanol. > > Pete > > > On 10/13/2010 11:28 AM, Silvano Gai wrote: >> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Silvano Gai >> >> >> I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft >> that has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone. >> >> Be careful >> >> -- Silvano >> >> On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote: >>> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: >>> "Tucsonchris" >>> >>> Wonder what Rotax will say about this---- >>> >>> > http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.h > tml?x=0 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:56 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side In order to make sure fuel gets to the 912 mechanical pump place the electric Facett low, close to but downstream of the gascolator. That should be the lowest point of your system. Don't forget to turn the facet on for landing as well as take off just encase of a go around. The Cessna C185 I worked on had a switch which automatically turned on the boost pump with full throttle.. There was also an override switch which would operate the pump at less than full throttle. That may be a good idea for you to rig. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thom Riddle Sent: October 14, 2010 11:48 AM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 mechanical pump - fuel lift on vacuum side Lucien, I don't remember if my Facet was in parallel or series (I didn't build it) but do know that I forgot to use the Facet occasionally on take-off and landings and never had any problems. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. Daniel Patrick Moynihan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315713#315713 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:15 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... Don=99t forget there are still a lot of P&W, Continental, Jacobs and even Franklins still flying. Remove all access to 100LL and you ground almost all historical engines. The Lancaster which flies to Florida every year is owned and operated out of Hamilton Ontario. I guess without gas it will just stay there. Noel From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: October 14, 2010 12:46 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... Good one Noel. This is important if only because Avgas will be phased out and then where will the Lycosaurus engines be? Graham _____ From: Noel Loveys Sent: Thursday, 14 October, 2010 14:13:49 Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... Ethanol has been around for many years. If memory serves me right back in the early seventies it was called gasohol. It was so popular that, pardon the pun, it died on the vine. The reason it, like a bad dream, has returned is the octane booster MTBE was found to be able to remain in the ground for long periods of time and it is carcinogenic. The idea of replacing MTBE was probably a good one replacing it with ethanol was a fools solution. Ethanol must go but the oil industry has to find a decent replacement... OR... the engine manufacturers need to design engines that will run efficiently on low octane fuel. Note the word efficiently. Noel From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner Sent: October 13, 2010 2:50 PM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... I don=99t think that this is an appropriate forum for your political views Silvano but wasn=99t it the previous administration that approved ethanol? From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Blumax008@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:56 AM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... Silvano...Me too! Engine failures. They're not going to be happy until they've (Democrats) totally wrecked the country. Nov. 2nd. Don't forget. NOVEMBER SECOND! In a message dated 10/13/2010 12:32:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pilot@ip6.com writes: I don't know what Rotax has to say but I have a composite aircraft that has wing damage due to ethanol and I discovered I am not alone. Be careful -- Silvano On 10/13/10 8:57 AM, Tucsonchris wrote: > --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Tucsonchris" > > Wonder what Rotax will say about this---- > > http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-121089553 6.html?x=0 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315567#315567 > > >======================== = Use utilities Day ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================= - List Contribution Web Site sp; http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rotax_blank " href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.