Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:24 AM - Washing Ethanol out of Gas (JC Gilpin)
2. 02:40 AM - Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
3. 03:20 AM - Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas (dave)
4. 06:21 PM - Re: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys)
5. 06:34 PM - Re: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys)
6. 06:37 PM - Re: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Noel Loveys)
7. 07:29 PM - Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas (Noel Loveys)
8. 07:36 PM - Re: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used to 10% ethanol... (Robert Borger)
9. 08:41 PM - Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas (Noel Loveys)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Washing Ethanol out of Gas |
*
I think I will take my chances with E15 if that's the choice. I know what I
built my fuel system with and it all tolerates alcohol
That's the most realistic and sensible post I've seen on this subject.
Let's get used to it and learn how to live with it.
The Brazilians have figured it out long ago.
We can learn a lot from them.
JG
*
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas |
what we haven't figured out is how to find the energy it takes to make the
=0Astuff! Oil is more energy conserving than ethanol. Metane is even less d
amaging =0Ato the environment, unless it escapes before its burnt, then its
20 times worse. =0AFacts not fiction.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________
___________________=0AFrom: JC Gilpin <j.gilpin@bigpond.com>=0ATo: "rotaxen
gines-list@matronics.com" <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Sunday,
17 October, 2010 10:18:21=0ASubject: RotaxEngines-List: Washing Ethanol ou
t of Gas=0A=0AI think I will take my chances with E15 if that's the choice.
I know what =0AI built my fuel system with and it all tolerates alco
hol=0A>=0A>That's the most realistic and sensible post I've seen on this su
bject.=0A>Let's get used to it and learn how to live with it. =0A>The Brazi
lians have figured it out long ago. =0A>We can learn a lot from them.=0A>
===================== =0A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas |
JC, I am with you. I have over 1000 hours on Ethanol gas and not had one issue.
I have 8 Rotax 2 stroke powered planes at my strip and they all use it and no
one has had an issue yet. Some pre mix some injected.
Is it all hogwash or wife's tales ? I not sure. I do know that if they was such
a big issue then you would see planes all over the place dead, broken as well
as lawn mowers,chainsaws, weed wackers,cars ,jet skis, snowmobiles. I am still
waiting to see this damage that everyone talks about. Maybe we will soon,
who knows.
Some are betting sitting at their keyboard then actually get some realtime flying
in it seems.
Dave
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Videos using ethanol gas.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316012#316012
Message 4
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| Subject: | Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used |
to 10% ethanol...
This may be a good time to remind most of the folks that even with 100ll
it's a good idea to let the gas in the plane sit for at least twenty minutes
just incase there si any water in the fuel.. It has happened. After
refuelling (and waiting) the tanks and gascolator should be driiped to make
sure there is no water in the fuel system.
The guy who bought my father's LA-4 made the mistake of not waiting for fuel
to settle out and dripping his tanks... He paid the ultimate price!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Christensen
Sent: October 15, 2010 11:35 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used
to 10% ethanol...
<pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
I siphon my unwashed gasoline into the water I have standing in the
bottom of my 6.5 gallon glass carboy by putting the outlet side of the
siphon hose in the standing water so that the gasoline swirls into the
standing water. Having marked the water level on the side of the carboy
before adding gas I am able to judge the quantity of ethanol I have
removed since the level comes up about 3/4" after the mix settles. I
usually let it sit 1/2 hour to be safe. I then siphon washed gas off
the top leaving about 1.25" of gasoline on top of the water so that I
don't siphon up any water with the washed gas. I can wash about 25-30
gallons by just siphoning more unwashed gas into the carboy and don't
have to add any more water with each carboy fill up. Eventually there
is 4 or 5 inches of alcohol/water mix in the bottom of of the carboy so
that only 4 gallons of unwashed gas can be added. When that happens I
siphon the alcohol/water mix off the bottom of the tank being careful
not to siphon any gasoline.
I then start over. There is always some gas and water/alcohol left in
the carboy so that I am not wasting any gasoline.
Pete
On 10/14/2010 6:52 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Noel
Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> I take it you are leaving lots of time for the water to settle out
> completely. Are you draining from the bottom or siphoning?
>
> Noel
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used |
to 10% ethanol...
You could run it through a still.... Alcohol boils off somewhere around 80C
at sea level. Then use the distilled alcohol, which BTW is not palatable
(Darn!), as fuel for a table heater or for cleaning small parts. The
alcohol is bio degradable but I don't know about the stuff they put in to
make it unpalatable.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Christensen
Sent: October 15, 2010 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting
used to 10% ethanol...
I use it to kill weeds and bugs. Or alternatively I make suppositories and
shove them up some congressman's (oops I almost used a bad word)
Pete
On 10/15/2010 10:06 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Pete:
After yo have a carboy filled with this alcohol/gas/water mixture what do
you do with the hazardous waste?
Here is a simple process to reduce the hazmat to zero.
Agitate the mixture while holding a propane (or hotter) flame blowing onto
the top of the mixture.
The alcohol/gas will burn off leaving water.
There is also another process where you put a submersible heater into the
mixture which causes the flammable stuff to vaporize and that vapor is them
hit with a flame. This is a bit questionable due to cost and setup
requirements.
Barry
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Pete Christensen
<pchristensen10@austin.rr.com> wrote:
<pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
I siphon my unwashed gasoline into the water I have standing in the bottom
of my 6.5 gallon glass carboy by putting the outlet side of the siphon hose
in the standing water so that the gasoline swirls into the standing water.
Having marked the water level on the side of the carboy before adding gas I
am able to judge the quantity of ethanol I have removed since the level
comes up about 3/4" after the mix settles. I usually let it sit 1/2 hour to
be safe. I then siphon washed gas off the top leaving about 1.25" of
gasoline on top of the water so that I don't siphon up any water with the
washed gas. I can wash about 25-30 gallons by just siphoning more unwashed
gas into the carboy and don't have to add any more water with each carboy
fill up. Eventually there is 4 or 5 inches of alcohol/water mix in the
bottom of of the carboy so that only 4 gallons of unwashed gas can be added.
When that happens I siphon the alcohol/water mix off the bottom of the tank
being careful not to siphon any gasoline.
I then start over. There is always some gas and water/alcohol left in the
carboy so that I am not wasting any gasoline.
Pete
On 10/14/2010 6:52 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I take it you are leaving lots of time for the water to settle out
completely. Are you draining from the bottom or siphoning?
Noel
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Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used |
to 10% ethanol...
Usually the container used for making beer is called a tun. The carboy is
used for wine.
I know; Picky, picky, picky!
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Christensen
Sent: October 15, 2010 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting
used to 10% ethanol...
It is a large small mouth bottle used in making beer.
On 10/15/2010 10:04 AM, Hugh McKay wrote:
<mailto:hgmckay@bellsouth.net> <hgmckay@bellsouth.net>
Pete,
Pardon my ignorance in this matter, but please describe what you refer to as
"a 6.5 gallon carboy"?
Hugh McKay
Rotax 912 UL
Allegro 2000
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Pete Christensen" <mailto:pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
<pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:04 AM
<rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used
to 10% ethanol...
<mailto:pchristensen10@austin.rr.com> <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
I siphon my unwashed gasoline into the water I have standing in the bottom
of my 6.5 gallon glass carboy by putting the outlet side of the siphon hose
in the standing water so that the gasoline swirls into the standing water.
Having marked the water level on the side of the carboy before adding gas I
am able to judge the quantity of ethanol I have removed since the level
comes up about 3/4" after the mix settles. I usually let it sit 1/2 hour to
be safe. I then siphon washed gas off the top leaving about 1.25" of
gasoline on top of the water so that I don't siphon up any water with the
washed gas. I can wash about 25-30 gallons by just siphoning more unwashed
gas into the carboy and don't have to add any more water with each carboy
fill up. Eventually there is 4 or 5 inches of alcohol/water mix in the
bottom of of the carboy so that only 4 gallons of unwashed gas can be added.
When that happens I siphon the alcohol/water mix off the bottom of the tank
being careful not to siphon any gasoline.
I then start over. There is always some gas and water/alcohol left in the
carboy so that I am not wasting any gasoline.
Pete
On 10/14/2010 6:52 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I take it you are leaving lots of time for the water to settle out
completely. Are you draining from the bottom or siphoning?
Noel
Message 7
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| Subject: | Washing Ethanol out of Gas |
Snip
How much of any of these chemicals are being fractionated out of the
fuel along with the ethanol and water?
Since the water solubility of those chemicals is for all intents and
purposes nil the chances of washing out other necessary components is next
to nil. There is a component (chemical) put in the ethanol to prevent
anyone from refining and drinking it, that component is removed with water.
Other than that the most other thing that is removed is dust which
occasionally gets in the gas.
BTW once the ethanol is removed your gascolator will work again.
Noel
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were getting used |
to 10% ethanol...
The Tun is used for mashing and lautering of the beer mash.
The cracked malted barley is placed in the mash tun where it is mixed
with hot (120F-160F) water. The mash is held there till the starches in
the malted barley have been converted to sugar. After conversion the
mash may be lautered in the mash tun or moved to a specific lauater tun.
Lautering is the washing of the fermentable sugar solution (wort) from
the barley. The wort is run into a boil kettle where it is brought to a
boil and up to three batches of hops are added at various points in the
boil. The wort is boiled until the desired specific gravity is
obtained. The wort is then cooled to below 80F and placed in a vessel
with suitable yeast culture for fermentation. This vessel can range
from a covered plastic bucket (poorest) to a stainless steel
cylindroconical purpose designed fermenter (best). Most home brewers
use the carboy, equipped with a fermentation air lock, for fermentation.
The carboy can also be used to ferment wine, mead, cider and other adult
beverages.
Ya, a picky brewer...
Check six,
Bob Borger
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Europa XS, Short Wing, Intercooled Rotax 914
rlborger@mac.com
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Oct 17, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Usually the container used for making beer is called a tun. The
carboy is used for wine.
>
> I know; Picky, picky, picky!
>
> Noel
>
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Christensen
> Sent: October 15, 2010 4:06 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were
getting used to 10% ethanol...
>
> It is a large small mouth bottle used in making beer.
>
> <image001.png>
>
> On 10/15/2010 10:04 AM, Hugh McKay wrote:
<hgmckay@bellsouth.net>
>
> Pete,
>
> Pardon my ignorance in this matter, but please describe what you refer
to as "a 6.5 gallon carboy"?
>
> Hugh McKay
> Rotax 912 UL
> Allegro 2000
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Pete Christensen" <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:04 AM
> To: <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Washing Gas (was)Just when you were
getting used to 10% ethanol...
>
>
<pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>
> I siphon my unwashed gasoline into the water I have standing in the
bottom of my 6.5 gallon glass carboy by putting the outlet side of the
siphon hose in the standing water so that the gasoline swirls into the
standing water. Having marked the water level on the side of the carboy
before adding gas I am able to judge the quantity of ethanol I have
removed since the level comes up about 3/4" after the mix settles. I
usually let it sit 1/2 hour to be safe. I then siphon washed gas off
the top leaving about 1.25" of gasoline on top of the water so that I
don't siphon up any water with the washed gas. I can wash about 25-30
gallons by just siphoning more unwashed gas into the carboy and don't
have to add any more water with each carboy fill up. Eventually there
is 4 or 5 inches of alcohol/water mix in the bottom of of the carboy so
that only 4 gallons of unwashed gas can be added. When that happens I
siphon the alcohol/water mix off the bottom of the tank being careful
not to siphon any gasoline.
>
> I then start over. There is always some gas and water/alcohol left in
the carboy so that I am not wasting any gasoline.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 10/14/2010 6:52 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Noel
Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> I take it you are leaving lots of time for the water to settle out
> completely. Are you draining from the bottom or siphoning?
>
> Noel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Washing Ethanol out of Gas |
Apparently the professors at MIT have been able to come up with a series
of figures the swear by. The last figures I saw said that it takes
almost four gallons of diesel fuel to produce one gallon of ethanol. If
you add the pollution of those four gallons burned in the production of
ethanol to the pollution actually caused by the ethanol itself then you
can see where ethanol is the worst filthy fuel that you can imagine.
Adding insult to injury the land that should be in food production is
now producing ethanol and helping fuel rocketing inflation.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRAHAM SINGLETON
Sent: October 17, 2010 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Washing Ethanol out of Gas
what we haven't figured out is how to find the energy it takes to make
the stuff! Oil is more energy conserving than ethanol. Metane is even
less damaging to the environment, unless it escapes before its burnt,
then its 20 times worse. Facts not fiction.
Graham
_____
From: JC Gilpin <j.gilpin@bigpond.com>
Sent: Sunday, 17 October, 2010 10:18:21
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Washing Ethanol out of Gas
I think I will take my chances with E15 if that's the choice.
I know what I built my fuel system with and it all tolerates
alcohol
That's the most realistic and sensible post I've seen on this subject.
Let's get used to it and learn how to live with it.
The Brazilians have figured it out long ago.
We can learn a lot from them.
JG
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-ofollow"
target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">h
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