Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:16 AM - PLEASE READ - List Fund Raiser Kickoff! (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:37 AM - Re: Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas (FLYaDIVE)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: Re: Prop Strike crank damage (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: Prop Strike crank damage (Richard Girard)
4. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: Prop Strike crank damage (vernon mitchell)
5. 07:45 AM - Re: 912 Exhaust Temp Question (ricklach)
6. 08:14 AM - Re: Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas (Noel Loveys)
7. 11:26 AM - CHT Indications 912ULS (John Fasching)
8. 02:25 PM - Re: CHT Indications 912ULS (Roger Lee)
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| Subject: | PLEASE READ - List Fund Raiser Kickoff! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions
of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO
advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack
of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages
and web site pages including:
* Matronics List Forums http://forums.matronics.com
* Matronics List List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com
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* Matronics List Browser http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
You don't find advertising on any of these pages because I believe in a List experience
that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and
not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these Lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
* Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
* Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
* Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-8 Builder and Flyer
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas |
Hello Roger:
Sorry for the long delay on getting back to you and the Gaggle.
I have spoken to a retired lab chemist for Exxon-Mobile and determining
octane rating is not something any lab can perform. Mainly because of the
cost. The way it is done is with a very specialized piece of equipment
called a "Knock Engine".
I wanted to have some testing done and the answer was - You can't afford it.
The explanation on what a Knock Engine is and how it works was very
interesting and took about a half hour with Q&A's.
Simply:
It is a Variable Compression Engine.
It is fuel injected.
And there are gages to read: Compression, Fuel Flow, Temps of all sorts and
an audio system to detect Knock.
The engine is started - Run up to temp. And then the compression is
increased until the Knock is detected.
There are all sorts of charts to compare fuels - ranges of operation -
density altitude - and others.
What Noel is talking about is Flash Point - Which is used
to determining the Flammability of a substance for chemical classification
for things such as MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) and HMIS
(Hazardous Material Identification System).
And it is done two ways:
Open and Closed...
Open is done with a OPEN metal petri dish and heated electrically so you can
CONTROL the temperatures and without adding variables such as oxygen and an
external combustion process.
Closed is done the same way except with a close petri dish.
The closed method is used for know explosive items. Gas being one of them.
Noel's idea of dropping gas on a hot metal plate has a huge variable
as oxygen is being removed from the surrounding area. Which would raise the
flash point. That is why the Closed method was developed.
I am still searching for a lab to perform a test that would hold up in court
and not brake my bank.
Barry
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Barry,
>
> The fuel was tested at a lab before washing and the same fuel tested after
> washing. I don't know the exact method the lab used to define the octane
> rating. The first sample of the untreated fuel was right on and the washed
> fuel test results looked right in line with what you would expect.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317024#317024
>
>
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Strike crank damage |
BJ,
Thanks for the good explanation for the purpose of the slipper clutch. M
ovement of the crank sections was not mentioned in my Rotax courses..(or that
I remember) Makes perfect sense. Learn something new every day.
Sorry about the mis interpretation of "composite" as it applies to the
crankshaft. Composite to me is like carbon fiber, kevlar,etc (ie; other than
straight metal) Perhaps a sectional crankshaft or such would have been
clearer. (ahhh yes...English)
Which brings me to the point:
We has a Rans S-6 flip upside down a few weeks ago during landing. It
broke the Warp prop blades, oil temp housing,(sender broke the housing) and was
at idle thrust. We replaced the housing,miked the shaft(OK) and still have
the gearbox to check. I wonder if there could be a crank problem(ie: segment
movement) or does in fact, the slipper clutch fully take care of that.
I have been on vacation so have not done any of the work myself
Dick Maddux
912UL
Milton,Fl
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Strike crank damage |
Dick, Speaking of that English language bugaboo, did you mike the crank,
i.e. check it's size with a micrometer, or indicate the crank, i.e. place a
sensitive (resolution of .0001" or .005mm) dial indicator on the nose of the
crank and check for runout as the crank is rotated? The latter is what is
required after a prop strike, while the former is a nice to do but doesn't
really tell you much unless there is evidence that the taper on the crank
nose or the mating surface of the drive gear is damaged.
See the Line Maintenance Manual, Section 5-50-00 "Unscheduled Maintenance"
pages 3 and 4 and the Heavy Maintenance Manual Section 72-00-00, 3.18, pages
95 and 97.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 6:52 AM, <Catz631@aol.com> wrote:
> BJ,
> Thanks for the good explanation for the purpose of the slipper clutch.
> Movement of the crank sections was not mentioned in my Rotax courses..(or
> that I remember) Makes perfect sense. Learn something new every day.
> Sorry about the mis interpretation of "composite" as it applies to the
> crankshaft. Composite to me is like carbon fiber, kevlar,etc (ie; other than
> straight metal) Perhaps a sectional crankshaft or such would have been
> clearer. (ahhh yes...English)
> Which brings me to the point:
> We has a Rans S-6 flip upside down a few weeks ago during landing. It
> broke the Warp prop blades, oil temp housing,(sender broke the housing) and
> was at idle thrust. We replaced the housing,miked the shaft(OK) and still
> have the gearbox to check. I wonder if there could be a crank problem(ie:
> segment movement) or does in fact, the slipper clutch fully take care of
> that.
> I have been on vacation so have not done any of the work myself
> Dick Maddux
> 912UL
> Milton,Fl
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Strike crank damage |
If There was any movement on the crank segments, how long would it take
to show up on performance, or would it be noticable imediatly?
Vernon.
----- Original Message -----
From: Catz631@aol.com
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Prop Strike crank damage
BJ,
Thanks for the good explanation for the purpose of the slipper
clutch. Movement of the crank sections was not mentioned in my Rotax
courses..(or that I remember) Makes perfect sense. Learn something new
every day.
Sorry about the mis interpretation of "composite" as it applies to
the crankshaft. Composite to me is like carbon fiber, kevlar,etc (ie;
other than straight metal) Perhaps a sectional crankshaft or such would
have been clearer. (ahhh yes...English)
Which brings me to the point:
We has a Rans S-6 flip upside down a few weeks ago during landing. It
broke the Warp prop blades, oil temp housing,(sender broke the housing)
and was at idle thrust. We replaced the housing,miked the shaft(OK) and
still have the gearbox to check. I wonder if there could be a crank
problem(ie: segment movement) or does in fact, the slipper clutch fully
take care of that.
I have been on vacation so have not done any of the work myself
Dick Maddux
912UL
Milton,Fl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10/30/10 06:34:00
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Exhaust Temp Question |
Dave,
I put exh-wrap on my 701 to lower the temperatures inside the cowl. I live in the
Southern California Mountains and every time I go anywhere I'm in the desert,
where 100 degree days are common. The wrap lowered the Oil-temp, water-temp
and cylinder heat temp significantly. Everything was on the high side during
summer and now they are perfect. Like Roger said. After a flight you can pull
the cowl and it's worm in there but not cooking like it was.
Rick
--------
701Driver
N35 26.700, W118 16.743
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317742#317742
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas |
Unfortunately my friends lab was taken over and subsequently closed but I
believe the Irving Oil co in New Brunswick still does octane testing. You
may also want to contact the Newfoundland Constabulary. They had problems
years ago with low octane fuel in their cars and I understand that they now
do periodic octane testing of all high octane pumps in their jurisdictions.
This far north you may find a lab that is more reasonable than where you
live. Sending a vial of gas across an international border could be fun
though!
Either way you can check with universities ( Chemistry profs usually know
where to find things in industry) or local police or sheriffs departments.
They may have come into problems with their high compression police cars.
You could also check with the NHRA.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: November 1, 2010 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Washing Ethanol out of Gas
Hello Roger:
Sorry for the long delay on getting back to you and the Gaggle.
I have spoken to a retired lab chemist for Exxon-Mobile and determining
octane rating is not something any lab can perform. Mainly because of the
cost. The way it is done is with a very specialized piece of equipment
called a "Knock Engine".
I wanted to have some testing done and the answer was - You can't afford it.
The explanation on what a Knock Engine is and how it works was very
interesting and took about a half hour with Q&A's.
Simply:
It is a Variable Compression Engine.
It is fuel injected.
And there are gages to read: Compression, Fuel Flow, Temps of all sorts and
an audio system to detect Knock.
The engine is started - Run up to temp. And then the compression is
increased until the Knock is detected.
There are all sorts of charts to compare fuels - ranges of operation -
density altitude - and others.
What Noel is talking about is Flash Point - Which is used to determining the
Flammability of a substance for chemical classification for things such as
MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) and HMIS (Hazardous Material
Identification System).
And it is done two ways:
Open and Closed...
Open is done with a OPEN metal petri dish and heated electrically so you can
CONTROL the temperatures and without adding variables such as oxygen and an
external combustion process.
Closed is done the same way except with a close petri dish.
The closed method is used for know explosive items. Gas being one of them.
Noel's idea of dropping gas on a hot metal plate has a huge variable as
oxygen is being removed from the surrounding area. Which would raise the
flash point. That is why the Closed method was developed.
I am still searching for a lab to perform a test that would hold up in court
and not brake my bank.
Barry
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Barry,
The fuel was tested at a lab before washing and the same fuel tested after
washing. I don't know the exact method the lab used to define the octane
rating. The first sample of the untreated fuel was right on and the washed
fuel test results looked right in line with what you would expect.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317024#317024
==========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
==========
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 7
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| Subject: | CHT Indications 912ULS |
The CHT readings on a "cold" engine normally read, more or less, about
ambient temperatures...both within a few degrees.
I just noticed that on the Dynon D180 display that one side now reads
negative 9-degrees F, and the other side reads 54-degrees F ( about
right)
A quick check didn't reveal anything amiss, but for other reasons I
didn't run the engine...awaiting a replacement oil pressure sender -
running the engine might 'straighten out' this little mystery.
Have you seen this before?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: CHT Indications 912ULS |
My guess would be a bad connection, but I'm not sure. It is possible to have a
bad probe.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317793#317793
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