Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:13 AM - Just A Few Days Left; Well Behind Last Year... (Matt Dralle)
1. 01:09 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs (Dan Billingsley)
2. 02:26 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs (Carlos Trigo)
3. 04:38 AM - Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs (Thom Riddle)
4. 05:37 AM - BING - O or BANG - O? (FLYaDIVE)
5. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: Oil pressure (FLYaDIVE)
6. 06:32 AM - Re: Oil pressure (Thom Riddle)
7. 06:53 AM - POSTMASTER - (FLYaDIVE)
8. 07:12 AM - Re: POSTMASTER - (Russ Holland)
9. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs (Jerry)
10. 12:26 PM - Many Rotax 912 related items for sale (Jim Feldmann)
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| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left; Well Behind Last Year... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser. Response
has been good so far, but we're well behind last year at this point. If you've
been waiting until the last minute to make your Contribution, now might be good
time to show your support and maybe pick up a nice gift as well!
Please remember that there is no commercial advertising on these Lists and the
*only* means of keeping them running is through your Contributions during this
Fund Raiser. If it weren't for your individual Contributions, these Lists could
easily become economically infeasible and simply cease to exist.
You probably can't even take the family out to dinner for $20 these days, but your
individual Contribution of the same amount makes a huge difference in keeping
the List services alive.
Please make a Contribution today with a Credit Card or Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs |
Richard, Having the carbs go to wide open=C2-might be a good thing as lon
g as you =0Aare flying over a place you would never want to put down, howev
er, there are =0Aother places I can think of it would be a disaster...think
of taxiing in a =0Apublic airport and then your engine goes wide open. I'm
sure running into that =0AKing Air would ruin your day. I know many folks
who take the springs off and =0Aleave them off. The other thing to think ab
out is we have two carbs. What are =0Athe odds both of the throttle cables
will fail at the same time? More than =0Alikely one will go and then you wi
ll have a very rough running engine with the =0Acarbs out of balance.=0AJus
t my 2 cents=0A=0A=0A>=0A>From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>=0A>To:
rotaxengines-list@matronics.com=0A>Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 9:33:45 PM
=0A>Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs
=0A>=0A>Noel, You're right about the Bing 54 on the 582, a fact that keeps
my cables =0A>lubed and inspected to excess. Which would you rather have if
a throttle cable =0A>breaks an engine at WOT or an engine at idle. Think m
iles of trees underneath =0A>you and no clearing in sight. =0A>=0A>Jim, The
throttle cable on the Bing 64 is connected to the throttle butterfly, =0A>
not the piston. The butterfly sets the throttle and the piston does fine
=0A>adjustment of the mixture my raising and lowering the jet needle in res
ponse to =0A>atmospheric pressure.=0A>Joel, if that was your comment in the
tiny, tiny print about changing over the =0A>throttle springs to pull the
butterfly to idle, wheel chocks and checking the =0A>throttle position befo
re starting the engine can keep your plane from running =0A>away. IF you're
at 2000' over a forest with your wife or child on board when a =0A>throttl
e cable breaks and the engine goes to idle, I truly doubt you'll be =0A>cal
ling that a "Safety Feature" right about then.=0A>=0A>=0A>Rick Girard=0A>
=0A>=0A>On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
wrote:=0A>=0A>Then the question should be why have a spring at all...=C2-
From what I see all it =0A>does is put pressure on the throttle cables.=C2
- Wouldn=99t it be better not to have =0A>springs at all?=0A>>=C2
-=0A>>BTW the 582 with the Bing carbs will go to idle if the cable breaks
=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Noel=0A>>=C2-=0A>>From:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@mat
ronics.com =0A>>[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Be
half Of Richard =0A>>Girard=0A>>Sent: November 18, 2010 6:59 PM=0A>>To: rot
axengines-list@matronics.com=0A>>Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax
912 throttle return springs=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Barry, Unlike those on an automo
bile or other conveyance, the throttle return =0A>>spring on an aircraft is
there to make sure that if the throttle cable breaks =0A>>the carb goes to
wide open throttle.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Rick Girard=0A>>On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at
12:41 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:=0A>>Hey Guys:=0A>>=C2-=0A
>>I know I'm late on entering this Throttle Return Spring discussion. =C2
-=0A>>But the questions I have are:=0A>>1 - Why is there a throttle retur
n spring?=0A>>2 - What=C2-position=C2-does it return the Throttle to?
=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Barry=C2-=C2-=0A>>=C2-=0A>>On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:
04 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:=0A>>--> RotaxEngines-List me
ssage posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>=0A>>=0A>>I've never see
n these springs to get noticeably weaker over time. I'm not saying =0A>>the
y can't but spring steel takes a VERY LONG time to loose its springiness in
=0A>>normal service.=0A>>=0A>>I suspect your cables might need lubrication
or they have a tighter radius than =0A>>desirable=0A>>=0A>>--------=0A>>Th
om Riddle=0A>>Buffalo, NY (9G0)=0A>>Kolb Slingshot SS-021=0A>>Jabiru 2200A
#1574=0A>>Tennessee Prop 64x32=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=9CEveryone is entitled
to his own opinion, but not his own facts.=9D=0A>>Daniel Patrick Moyn
ihan=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this topic online here:=0A>>=0A>>http://f
orums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319901#319901=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>
>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>============0A>>="_blank">www.aeroe
lectric.com=0A>>ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A>>et=
"_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com=0A>>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution=0A>>le, List Admin.=0A>>============0A>>-Li
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
=0A>>============0A>>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>>
============0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=C2-=0A>>=C2-=0A>>
=C2-=0A>>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com=0A>>.com" target="_blank">www.bui
ldersbooks.com=0A>>="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com=0A>>_blank">http://www
.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List=0A>>tp://forums.matronics.com=0A>>=0A>>=0A
>>=0A>>-- =0A>>Zulu Delta=0A>>Kolb Mk IIIC=0A>>582 Gray head=0A>>4.00 C gea
rbox=0A>>3 blade WD=0A>>Thanks, Homer GBYM=0A>>=C2-=0A>>It is not bigotry
to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to =0A>>imagine
how we might possibly have gone wrong.=0A>>=C2--=C2-G.K. Chesterton=0A
>>=C2-=0A>>=C2-=0A>>=C2-=0A>>=C2-=0A>>www.aeroelectric.com=0A>>www.
buildersbooks.com=0A>>www.homebuilthelp.com=0A>>http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution=0A>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List=0A>>htt
p://forums.matronics.com=0A>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target=
"_blank">www.buildersbooks.com =0A>>="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blan
k">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>ist" target="_blank">http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List =0A>>tp://forums.matronics.c
om =0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>-- =0A>=0A>Zulu Delta=0A>Kolb Mk IIIC=0A>582 Gray head
=0A>4.00 C gearbox=0A>3 blade WD=0A>Thanks, Homer GBYM=0A>=0A>=0A>It is not
bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to =0A>
imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.=0A>=C2--=C2-G.K. Chester
====================== =0A>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs |
Dan
In the first case you mentioned, when taxiing in a public airport and your
engine goes WOT, you just flip your ignition switches to OFF, to avoid
running into that expensive King Air.
In the other case, when only one cable will brake, you will certainly prefer
to have a very rough running engine, but still be able to reach a suitable
landing spot, than to choose the best tree branch to hit.
Please believe that those Rotax engineers already thought on all the
possibilities, before deciding to put those return springs.
Carlos
_____
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Billingsley
Sent: sexta-feira, 19 de Novembro de 2010 9:00
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs
Richard, Having the carbs go to wide open might be a good thing as long as
you are flying over a place you would never want to put down, however, there
are other places I can think of it would be a disaster...think of taxiing in
a public airport and then your engine goes wide open. I'm sure running into
that King Air would ruin your day. I know many folks who take the springs
off and leave them off. The other thing to think about is we have two carbs.
What are the odds both of the throttle cables will fail at the same time?
More than likely one will go and then you will have a very rough running
engine with the carbs out of balance.
Just my 2 cents
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 9:33:45 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs
Noel, You're right about the Bing 54 on the 582, a fact that keeps my cables
lubed and inspected to excess. Which would you rather have if a throttle
cable breaks an engine at WOT or an engine at idle. Think miles of trees
underneath you and no clearing in sight.
Jim, The throttle cable on the Bing 64 is connected to the throttle
butterfly, not the piston. The butterfly sets the throttle and the piston
does fine adjustment of the mixture my raising and lowering the jet needle
in response to atmospheric pressure.
Joel, if that was your comment in the tiny, tiny print about changing over
the throttle springs to pull the butterfly to idle, wheel chocks and
checking the throttle position before starting the engine can keep your
plane from running away. IF you're at 2000' over a forest with your wife or
child on board when a throttle cable breaks and the engine goes to idle, I
truly doubt you'll be calling that a "Safety Feature" right about then.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Then the question should be why have a spring at all... From what I see all
it does is put pressure on the throttle cables. Wouldn't it be better not
to have springs at all?
BTW the 582 with the Bing carbs will go to idle if the cable breaks
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Girard
Sent: November 18, 2010 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs
Barry, Unlike those on an automobile or other conveyance, the throttle
return spring on an aircraft is there to make sure that if the throttle
cable breaks the carb goes to wide open throttle.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:41 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Guys:
I know I'm late on entering this Throttle Return Spring discussion.
But the questions I have are:
1 - Why is there a throttle return spring?
2 - What position does it return the Throttle to?
Barry
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
I've never seen these springs to get noticeably weaker over time. I'm not
saying they can't but spring steel takes a VERY LONG time to loose its
springiness in normal service.
I suspect your cables might need lubrication or they have a tighter radius
than desirable
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319901#319901
==========
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ooks.com <http://ooks.com/> " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
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le, List Admin.
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tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
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ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs |
It is standard aviation practice to spring load the throttle arm to wide open.
Several years ago, one my partners in a Cherokee 140 had the throttle cable break
during flight and it went to full throttle which enabled him to get home and
landed deadstick after turning off the fuel and then the mags. Cable replaced
and we were back to flying.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320068#320068
Message 4
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| Subject: | BING - O or BANG - O? |
Hello Gaggle:
I would like to gain the collective opinion of BING CARB's.
Do they do better on one Make or Type of engine than another?
Is there one model of BING CARB that is better for some reason or another
than the rest? Or is there one to stay away from?
Oh, I was brought up with a Mixture Control, I'm very comfortable with it.
What are the opinions in this area when applied to BING CARB's?
So, are BING CARB's a BINGO or a BANGO?
Barry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Oil pressure |
Thom & Gaggle:
Speaking from strictly a mechanical engineer point of view:
If the leverage force and the rotational torque are equal the Fatigue Facto
r
goes down with the Rotation Pump since there is a DEAD stop at the Top and
Bottom of the leaver pump. Where you must overcome inertia at rest just to
start pumping again.
Want to save some more energy? Make the handle longer.
Barry
I agree that in principle that cranking a full rev can be easier than
> operating a lever because the mechanical advantage is probably higher. Bu
t
> the crank type is so easy that a little harder should not be too bad. I
> bought one today and will be installing and trying it out on Thursday.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY (9G0)
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x32
>
>
> =93Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.=94
> Daniel Patrick Moynihan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319623#319623
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Oil pressure |
FWIW
I changed the rotational crank pump for the reciprocal lever pump as per my plan.
The lever pump does require a little more effort but it does not pump 9 oz
per stroke as advertised. It pumps 16 oz per stroke or 8 strokes per gallon compared
to the 16 revolutions per gallon for the cast iron crank pump.
I did not time it but would say that it takes about the same time to pump equivalent
amount of fuel, same work being done, just different motions.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320081#320081
Message 7
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HOW DOES ONE STOP THIS POSTMASTER GARBAGE?
Message 8
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Try supporting it, since Matt runs all these lists for the aviation
community "advertisement free" all year except for this fundraiser to help
him pay the bills.
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: POSTMASTER -
HOW DOES ONE STOP THIS POSTMASTER GARBAGE?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 throttle return springs |
Before messing with the springs on the 912, you need to read this builders account of his mishap with only a couple of hours on his plane. http://ch601.org/stories/croke_crash.htm Jerry 601HDS 912ULS N316JL
Message 10
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| Subject: | Many Rotax 912 related items for sale |
I lost my beloved Kitfox IV 912 in an off-runway landing and now I need to raise
some money by selling the Kitfox and Rotax items that I no longer need.
Please see the complete list with photos at: http://www.jrfjrf.blogspot.com
Thanks for looking.
--------
Jim Feldmann, 3rd owner
1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912
Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320118#320118
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