Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (Richard Girard)
2. 05:15 AM - Re: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 05:36 AM - Re: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (Noel Loveys)
5. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (Noel Loveys)
6. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (Noel Loveys)
7. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (Dave Austin)
8. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (Dave Fisher)
9. 07:58 AM - CO detector (Fergus Kyle)
10. 08:22 AM - What to look for in a good Mechanic (Roger Lee)
11. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (John Fasching)
12. 09:49 AM - Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition (Roger Lee)
13. 01:04 PM - 582 Intake silencer (Richard Girard)
14. 01:13 PM - Re: 582 Intake silencer (Dave Fisher)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
You don't say if it is a two or three blade propeller, but for a start with
either, try 10 degrees measured at the prop tip. That works out to about
38.5" pitch.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> What would you recommend to be a preliminary AOA for the prop? Warp,
> nickel
> edge, square tip, 72" on a Kitfox II?
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
> Lee
> Sent: December 11, 2010 9:26 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and
> pre-ignition
>
>
> Actually both are correct. Rotax publishes numbers like that, but there are
> way to many applications in the world for everyone to be spot on, so why
> try to be at least close. Then the teachings in school aren't right along
> with the book either. So we try to balance a little. Plus we all have
> different setups. If you are at least 5000+ on take off and at 5500+ WOT
> you
> can sleep well at night.
>
> Hi Noel,
>
> Setting the rpm on the ground static is just to get close. Pitch angle does
> no good unless you are talking about two identical planes and props. The
> only way to really tell after that course static adjustment is to get into
> the air and get some real flight numbers. Shoot for around 5200 static on
> the ground and that will get you close enough for a flight test to dial it
> in where it really needs to be.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322996#322996
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
>What is the best WOT with the tail tied down? Around what pitch angle is a
good place to start? (80 hp 912 UL)
Noel<
Noel I have my Kiev prop set at 71/2 degrees on my 80hp Kitfox. This gives
me 5200 rpm(per the Rotax service bulletin) @ WOT at the start of the take
off roll. This prop angle would probably do you no good as you most likely
have a different prop. I had to set the angle about 3 times until I got the
5200 I was looking for.
Dick Maddux
912UL
Milton,Fl
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
> What would you recommend to be a preliminary AOA for the prop? Warp,
nickel
edge, square tip, 72" on a Kitfox II?
Noel<
Noel,
I too had the 72" Warp nickel edge prop (although mine was the tapered
tip). I removed it and installed the lighter Kiev. That solved my engine run on
problems I was sometimes having at shutdown (prop would turn backwards
about three revolutions) I suspect the mass of the Warp was causing the prop to
flip back at the top of the "dog gears" in the gearbox at shutdown. For
whatever reason I now have a much smoother , quieter propeller and NO kickback.
But then, I am the only one in the country that has had the kickback
problem.
Dick Maddux
912UL
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
The last time I flew the plane it was with a 582 UL with a three blade IVO
IFA. I think the 914 and the two blade WARP may be a whole new quintal of
fish!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: December 12, 2010 1:24 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and
pre-ignition
Hi Noel,
If you are flying with floats you may want a little flatter pitch for a
little better climb off the water with more weight. I have no recommendation
for the pitch, but only to set the static at 5200-5300 and go out and give
it a try.
I know you have been flying your plane, so what is your WOT setting right
now and how does it perform?
Just a side note*
That particular prop from Warp isn't recommended by Rotax because of it's
inertia weight.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323017#323017
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
Thanks Rick that's where I'll start.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Girard
Sent: December 12, 2010 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and
pre-ignition
You don't say if it is a two or three blade propeller, but for a start with
either, try 10 degrees measured at the prop tip. That works out to about
38.5" pitch.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
What would you recommend to be a preliminary AOA for the prop? Warp, nickel
edge, square tip, 72" on a Kitfox II?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: December 11, 2010 9:26 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and
pre-ignition
Actually both are correct. Rotax publishes numbers like that, but there are
way to many applications in the world for everyone to be spot on, so why
try to be at least close. Then the teachings in school aren't right along
with the book either. So we try to balance a little. Plus we all have
different setups. If you are at least 5000+ on take off and at 5500+ WOT you
can sleep well at night.
Hi Noel,
Setting the rpm on the ground static is just to get close. Pitch angle does
no good unless you are talking about two identical planes and props. The
only way to really tell after that course static adjustment is to get into
the air and get some real flight numbers. Shoot for around 5200 static on
the ground and that will get you close enough for a flight test to dial it
in where it really needs to be.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322996#322996
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--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
Thanks Dick:
I wanted to initially set the pitch close to the 5300 as possible so I
wouldn't be all over the field trying to zero in... BTW the 5300 instead of
5200 is for two reasons... 1 STOL performance in the Kitfox and 2. The
plane is hardly blistering fast in fact it is close to flying a barn door
broadside to the wind. A great plane for this area.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Catz631@aol.com
Sent: December 12, 2010 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and
pre-ignition
>What is the best WOT with the tail tied down? Around what pitch angle is a
good place to start? (80 hp 912 UL)
Noel<
Noel I have my Kiev prop set at 71/2 degrees on my 80hp Kitfox. This gives
me 5200 rpm(per the Rotax service bulletin) @ WOT at the start of the take
off roll. This prop angle would probably do you no good as you most likely
have a different prop. I had to set the angle about 3 times until I got the
5200 I was looking for.
Dick Maddux
912UL
Milton,Fl
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
I'd be a bit concerned that with prop set to 5300 static that it could easily over-rev
on climbout.
I use 5000 static.
Dave
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
5100 to 5300 work well for me .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@primus.ca>
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and
pre-ignition
> <daveaustin2@primus.ca>
>
> I'd be a bit concerned that with prop set to 5300 static that it could
> easily over-rev on climbout. I use 5000 static.
> Dave
>
>
>
Message 9
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Along the lines of the latest training video, I recall a carbon
monoxide detector being installed in our Harvard versions of the NA-16
series SNJ/AT6 etc, on which we trained ab initio in the 50's.
The instructors sang the virtues ofg this device which hung low on
the instrument panel extreme port sub-panel, out of normal view. It was
supposed to assist the maintenance crew to adjust the engine to the proper
running at any new altitude AND be a quide to warning the flier of excess CO
should he have a head-ache or disorientation in flight.
The elevated powers found the device to cause excess cost and
complication and disconnected it. Naturally, I got a previously sea-
level-sourced machine at Gunnery School and had an exciting armed trip
complete with pounding headache and wonderful visions.
Yup, not properly prepared, she sent me to the hospital on the
prairies for a week of testing before I rejoined the gang.
just an observation.
Ferg
A064 wiring in a Dynon D-100
Message 10
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| Subject: | What to look for in a good Mechanic |
What to look for in a good Mechanic and How do I know if I already have a good
one?
This can be a dynamic topic, but there are certainly some markers to look for in
finding yourself a good mechanic that you can really trust to keep you in the
air, safe and happy. You say you already have a mechanic; well the same properties
in looking for a mechanic apply to knowing if you have a good one. Lets
take a look at what traits might make up a good mechanic and what you can do
to find one.
Lets talk about looking for a good mechanic first. Just like in all professions
you have marginal professionals and top of the line. Here are a few items to
look for when trying to determine if a certain mechanic is right for you.
Questions for them and to yourself before selecting this mechanic.
(You may want to add a few extra qualifications on your own. These arent all inclusive)
1. Does he come recommended by other people?
2. Do you hear from others that he does a good job?
3. Does he have experience in your type aircraft?
4. Do you hear their name brought up favorably in conversations?
5. When you talk to them are they friendly and helpful before he wants to take
your money?
6. Ask them if they have the SBs and all the manuals for your engine and fuselage
on site?
7. How many aircraft like yours has he worked on or inspected?
8. Are they willing to show you the issues they found and answer your questions
knowledgeably about your plane while in their shop?
9. Whats his philosophy regarding regular and preventive maintenance?
10. Is he an arrogant mechanic or open minded to your ideas, suggestions, concerns
and will he research problems?
11 Do they use inspection check list, discrepancy list and do good logbook label
entries? (possibly ask to see a couple of his labels and check list)
12. Does he document well? Its for your benefit as well as his and he should know
that.
13. Does he give you copies of the maintenance check list or other documents for
your personal file? This should be an absolute in case you need it for the FAA,
insurance and the re-sale of your plane. Youre paying for the work, get it
the way you want it not him.
14. Does he seem to have the proper tools and education for your particular plane?
15. Last, but not least and this item is not a real marker of the mechanics professionalism,
but should be kept in the back of your mind. What do they charge?
If the price sounds too good to be true then there may be a reason and you may
get what you paid for. They may not be able to get much business from failings
of the above items and try to low ball prices to drum up more business. Someone
in a higher demand or better educated usually gets a little more money.
Now I know this is not always true thats why this is last and only something to
consider while looking for a mechanic that you will get along with and do a
good job for you.
A good mechanic will have a large portion and maybe if youre lucky all these traits
above.
The mechanics motto should be: I knowthere is something wrong with your plane (major
or minor) and Im going to find that for you to keep you safe. Due to a planes
wear and tear, loosening of attachment items or just sitting for extended
periods things change on a plane and its your mechanics job to find these. He
needs to be a skilled hunter of problems and an organized repairman for these
items.
You say you already have a mechanic then you should be able to use these questions
to determine if he is good for you. If there are some areas above that you
wish your mechanic would do better then sit down with them and explain that you
would like these items addressed better in the future. You are paying these
people good money and if they arent living up to your expectations then there
is nothing wrong with asking them to work on your plane a little different.
In many aspects of our life we have choices as to the way we want things, but when
we go to a Doctor, a Lawyer or a Mechanic we accept or expect them to tell
us what we need or want.
WRONG, we should exercise the same options with these professionals and they should
be receptive to our needs and you should fully expect help, understanding,
your options given and consideration to your own input. You should expect a
100% job and not 50% at a fair price for the service you receive. That said if
you go cheap sometime thats all you get. Getting a good professional is not always
the cheapest fare in town, but doesnt have to be the most expensive either.
Just like buying a new TV or car, shop around and get something that is quality,
will last and serve you well.
This was a long story and maybe I should have started it Once upon atime, but I
hope this helps someone in having a good sound relationship with their mechanic.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL MY FRIENDS HERE ON OUR FORUM!
Roger Lee
Tucson, AZ
p.s.
If you have a good one don't forget to give them a hug! :D
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323060#323060
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
Thanks for that great information, Roger. I made it a point to fly this
morning (wind finally stopped) and got 5,540-rpm WOT in straight and level
flight at our pattern altitude of 8300-ft. I am going to leave things right
there. Thanks again for the information, Roger
JohnF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 5:55 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and
pre-ignition
>
> Actually both are correct. Rotax publishes numbers like that, but there
> are way to many applications in the world for everyone to be spot on, so
> why try to be at least close. Then the teachings in school aren't right
> along with the book either. So we try to balance a little. Plus we all
> have different setups. If you are at least 5000+ on take off and at 5500+
> WOT you can sleep well at night.
>
> Hi Noel,
>
> Setting the rpm on the ground static is just to get close. Pitch angle
> does no good unless you are talking about two identical planes and props.
> The only way to really tell after that course static adjustment is to get
> into the air and get some real flight numbers. Shoot for around 5200
> static on the ground and that will get you close enough for a flight test
> to dial it in where it really needs to be.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322996#322996
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax E-Learning video on detonation and pre-ignition |
Howdy John,
Sounds like you have it locked down in a perfect spot. Mine happens to be set there,
too. Special ops may require a little tweaking for some, but for the normal
everyday fixed pitch prop it's a good place to be for most of us.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323077#323077
Message 13
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| Subject: | 582 Intake silencer |
A customer just bought a Kolb Mk IIIX that is very heavy and needs every HP
it can get. I'm trying to find just how much the intake silencer is costing
him. Rotax has two sets different lines on their performance graphs for this
engine, but they are both labeled the same, 582 UL-2V but the difference
between the two is 11.4 HP (8 KW) is this the effect of the silencers? Given
the difference in jetting specs from the Bing manual it seems plausible, but
I don't want to advise him based on guesswork by me. Can anyone point me to
a Rotax spec for silencer / no silencer HP?
Thanks,
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Intake silencer |
1 to 2 HP
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 4:00 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 582 Intake silencer
A customer just bought a Kolb Mk IIIX that is very heavy and needs
every HP it can get. I'm trying to find just how much the intake
silencer is costing him. Rotax has two sets different lines on their
performance graphs for this engine, but they are both labeled the same,
582 UL-2V but the difference between the two is 11.4 HP (8 KW) is this
the effect of the silencers? Given the difference in jetting specs from
the Bing manual it seems plausible, but I don't want to advise him based
on guesswork by me. Can anyone point me to a Rotax spec for silencer /
no silencer HP?
Thanks,
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be
unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
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