---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/27/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:21 AM - engine burping (Matt Tucciarone) 2. 08:25 AM - Re: engine burping (lucien) 3. 09:31 AM - New flywheel hub for 912 series (Remi Guerner) 4. 09:44 AM - EIS 4000 connections (Dan Billingsley) 5. 10:43 AM - Re: EIS 4000 connections (Craig Payne) 6. 11:25 AM - Re: Re: engine burping (Matt Tucciarone) 7. 11:45 AM - Re: EIS 4000 connections (Richard Girard) 8. 11:49 AM - Re: engine burping (Roger Lee) 9. 11:57 AM - Re: EIS 4000 connections (Dan Billingsley) 10. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: engine burping (Matt Tucciarone) 11. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: engine burping (Richard Girard) 12. 12:58 PM - Re: engine burping (rparigoris) 13. 06:04 PM - Re: engine burping (ronlee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:35 AM PST US From: "Matt Tucciarone" Subject: RotaxEngines-List: engine burping =EF=BB I had a guy tell me that his mechanic said that after he flies his plane, he should run the prop through and burp the engine again just like before flight. He said if you don=99t do it, oil will collect in the cylinders. Has anyone been told to do this? On my plane my oil tank is above the engine. One time, after not flying the plane for about 2 weeks, I took out a spark plug at the lowest point on the engine. Some oil dripped out. I had not run the prop through first like I would if I was going to start it. Is any of this a problem? The mechanic said it is not good for the oil to be there but I didn=99t think it was a problem if you run the prop through to burping before start. Any thoughts? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:54 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping From: "lucien" [quote="m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.c"]I had a guy tell me that his mechanic said that after he flies his plane, he should run the prop through and burp the engine again just like before flight. He said if you dont do it, oil will collect in the cylinders. Has anyone been told to do this? On my plane my oil tank is above the engine. One time, after not flying the plane for about 2 weeks, I took out a spark plug at the lowest point on the engine. Some oil dripped out. I had not run the prop through first like I would if I was going to start it. Is any of this a problem? The mechanic said it is not good for the oil to be there but I didnt think it was a problem if you run the prop through to burping before start. Any thoughts? Usually I don't think enough oil collects in the crankcase for this to happen, but I guess that could depend on the installation. If it does, I don't see why not to burp it after the flight. Is your oil return line in the hole at the lowest point? I.e. if cyls 1-2 are low when the plane is at rest, the oil return line banjo fitting should be in the hole in the crankcase nearest the gearbox.... But yeah this is familar with any flat four. My VW's would sometimes collect oil in the cylinders if I parked it on the side of a hill.... LS > [b] -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324661#324661 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:26 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: New flywheel hub for 912 series From: "Remi Guerner" Hi all, Rotax has recently introduced a new fly wheel hub with lengthened trigger cams which change the ignition timing during starting. This is described in SI-912-020 R4, section 74-00-00, page 1 and 4. With the new hub, ignition timing during the starting phase will be 3 degrees after TDC instead of 4 degrees before TDC. I am very interested in doing this mod on my 912ULS as it should prevent any possibility of kicking back. However I am puzzled by the dimensions shown on the drawing on page 4. The drawing says the old cams are 22 mm long and the new ones are 29 mm long. I measured the length of the cams on my 6 year old engine: they are 30 mm long! I also did the maths: the radius of the flywheel cams is 78 mm, so 1 degree rotation moves the cam edges 1.36 mm. From 4 to 26 degrees, that is 22 degrees difference, the length should be 1.36x22=29.95. So i believe my hub is good and the Rotax drawing is wrong. I have 2 questions: - to anyone who has access to the back of his engine: could you please remove the 3 screws which hold the plastic cover and measure the developed length of the cams. - to any one who has the new flywheel hub: please do the same. According to the SI, engines fitted with the new flywheel hub start with the following serial numbers: 912S: from S/N 4,923,847 912ULS and ULSFR: from 6,775,360 Waiting for your answers Regards Remi Guerner Europa F-FGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324673#324673 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_fly_wheel_hub_156.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_fly_wheel_hub_987.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:56 AM PST US From: Dan Billingsley Subject: RotaxEngines-List: EIS 4000 connections Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying the season! As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last electrical connections to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just tedious as most know. I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR, but they are enjoying the week off as well.) The EGT connections are straight forward because each bayonet probe (that goes into an exhaust pipe) has two wires to plug into. There are 2 CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops due to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone fast-on connection provided at the engine. So the question is...How is the connection made? The GR manual was very specific indicating that the two (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow the thermocouple to send correct info... My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes to ground...but I don't want to guess at this. Any help would be appreciated. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:10 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: EIS 4000 connections The Rotax CHT probes are not thermocouples (with a plus and minus lead). They are resistors whose resistance varies (inversely) with heat (also known as Negative Temperature Coefficient or NTC probes). One side of the resistor grounds through the body of the probe to the head. Check the GRT site for Rotax-specific information or general information on connecting resistive probes, resistive water temperature senders or NTC probes. The same kind of probes are used for oil temperature. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 9:43 AM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: EIS 4000 connections Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying the season! As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last electrical connections to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just tedious as most know. I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR, but they are enjoying the week off as well.) The EGT connections are straight forward because each bayonet probe (that goes into an exhaust pipe) has two wires to plug into. There are 2 CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops due to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone fast-on connection provided at the engine. So the question is...How is the connection made? The GR manual was very specific indicating that the two (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow the thermocouple to send correct info... My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes to ground...but I don't want to guess at this. Any help would be appreciated. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:58 AM PST US From: "Matt Tucciarone" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping Yes, But is it bad if some oil collects there? As I said, I always burp the engine before start. -----Original Message----- From: lucien Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 11:23 AM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping [quote="m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.c"]I had a guy tell me that his mechanic said that after he flies his plane, he should run the prop through and burp the engine again just like before flight. He said if you dont do it, oil will collect in the cylinders. Has anyone been told to do this? On my plane my oil tank is above the engine. One time, after not flying the plane for about 2 weeks, I took out a spark plug at the lowest point on the engine. Some oil dripped out. I had not run the prop through first like I would if I was going to start it. Is any of this a problem? The mechanic said it is not good for the oil to be there but I didnt think it was a problem if you run the prop through to burping before start. Any thoughts? Usually I don't think enough oil collects in the crankcase for this to happen, but I guess that could depend on the installation. If it does, I don't see why not to burp it after the flight. Is your oil return line in the hole at the lowest point? I.e. if cyls 1-2 are low when the plane is at rest, the oil return line banjo fitting should be in the hole in the crankcase nearest the gearbox.... But yeah this is familar with any flat four. My VW's would sometimes collect oil in the cylinders if I parked it on the side of a hill.... LS > [b] -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324661#324661 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: EIS 4000 connections From: Richard Girard Dan, See the Installation Manual, Chapter 21 page 127. The CHT sensor is grounded through the engine block. Rick Girard On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Dan Billingsley wrote: > dan@azshowersolutions.com> > > Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying the season! > As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last electrical > connections > to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just tedious as most know. > I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are > familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR, but they are enjoying the > week > off as well.) The EGT connections are straight forward because each bayonet > probe (that goes into an exhaust pipe) has two wires to plug into. There > are 2 > CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops > due > to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone > fast-on > connection provided at the engine. > So the question is...How is the connection made? The GR manual was very > specific > indicating that the two (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow > the > thermocouple to send correct info... > My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes > to > ground...but I don't want to guess at this. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. Chesterton ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:13 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping From: "Roger Lee" Never ever heard of burping the engine after a flight. Doesn't make any sense. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324693#324693 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:21 AM PST US From: Dan Billingsley Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: EIS 4000 connections Richard,=0A-I have been reading that page, however it does not indicate a nywhere as to =0Ausing just one wire coming from the EIS...and if so, which one? Would I just cut =0Athe second one off? The manual is vague.=0A=0A=0A >=0A>From: Richard Girard =0A>To: rotaxengines-list@ma tronics.com=0A>Sent: Mon, December 27, 2010 12:42:15 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Rot axEngines-List: EIS 4000 connections=0A>=0A>Dan, See the Installation Manua l, Chapter 21 page 127. The CHT sensor is =0A>grounded through the engine b lock. =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Rick Girard=0A>=0A>=0A>On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Dan Billingsley =0A>wrote:=0A>=0A>--> Rotax Engines-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley =0A>=0A>>=0A>>Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying th e season!=0A>>As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last elect rical connections=0A>>to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just ted ious as most know.=0A>>I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are=0A>>familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR , but they are enjoying the =0Aweek=0A>>off as well.) The EGT connections a re straight forward because each bayonet=0A>>probe (that goes into an exhau st pipe) has two wires to plug into. There are 2=0A>>CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops due=0A>>to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone =0A>fast-on=0A>> connection provided at the engine.=0A>>So the question is...How is the conn ection made? The GR manual was very =0A>specific=0A>>indicating that the tw o (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow =0Athe=0A>>thermocoup le to send correct info...=0A>>My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes to=0A>>ground...but I don't want to guess a t this.=0A>>=0A>>Any help would be appreciated.=0A>>=0A>>====== ======0A>>="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com=0A>>ooks.com" target ="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A>>et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com =0A>>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>le, List Admin. =0A>>============0A>>-List" target="_blank">http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List=0A>>======== ====0A>>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>>========= ===0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>-- =0A>=0A>Zulu Delta=0A>Kolb Mk IIIC =0A>582 Gray head=0A>4.00 C gearbox=0A>3 blade WD=0A>Thanks, Homer GBYM=0A> =0A>=0A>It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to =0A>imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.=0A>---G = =0A> ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:28 AM PST US From: "Matt Tucciarone" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping ?That is exactly what I thought. I was just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. I try to keep up with procedures. I have been flying this 912s for about 8 years now and never heard that. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Lee Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 2:46 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping Never ever heard of burping the engine after a flight. Doesn't make any sense. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324693#324693 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping From: Richard Girard Is the person making this recommendation an A & P by chance? As Roger said, it doesn't make any sense. The engine has its own motion to "burp" the engine while it was running. If it were to collect oil in the crankcase tha t quickly after shut down, I'd be suspicious of the condition of the engine o r its installation. While it's remote, their is one thing that might make burping a hot engine dangerous. If there were a hot spark plug, i.e. acting like a glow plug, or a bit of carbon doing the same, the engine could kick back. Like I said the chances are remote, but they aren't zero. Rick Girard On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Matt Tucciarone wrote: > m.tucciarone@hotmail.com> > > =EF=BBYes, > But is it bad if some oil collects there? As I said, I always burp the > engine before start. > > > -----Original Message----- From: lucien > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 11:23 AM > To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping > > lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> > > [quote="m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.c"]I had a guy tell me that his mechani c > said that after he flies his plane, he should run the prop through and b urp > the engine again just like before flight. He said if you don=C3=A2=82 =AC=84=A2t do it, oil > will collect in the cylinders. Has anyone been told to do this? On my pl ane > my oil tank is above the engine. One time, after not flying the plane fo r > about 2 weeks, I took out a spark plug at the lowest point on the engine .. > Some oil dripped out. I had not run the prop through first like I would if > I was going to start it. Is any of this a problem? The mechanic said it is > not good for the oil to be there but I didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t thi nk it was a problem if > you run the prop through to burping before start. > > Any thoughts? > > > Usually I don't think enough oil collects in the crankcase for this to > happen, but I guess that could depend on the installation. If it does, I > don't see why not to burp it after the flight. > > Is your oil return line in the hole at the lowest point? I.e. if cyls 1-2 > are low when the plane is at rest, the oil return line banjo fitting shou ld > be in the > hole in the crankcase nearest the gearbox.... > > But yeah this is familar with any flat four. My VW's would sometimes > collect oil in the cylinders if I parked it on the side of a hill.... > > LS > > > [b] >> > > > -------- > LS > Titan II SS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324661#324661 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unabl e to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. Chesterton ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:51 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping From: "rparigoris" I have heard of folks checking their oil after flight and if OK and as long as they don't see a big puddle under the plane they go flying without checking the oil. Is it possible that's what was meant? Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324707#324707 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:15 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping From: "ronlee" I can understand burping the engine say ten minuets after shut down. During this time the engine cools and the air in the engine shrinks causing a slight vacuum that can suck oil back into the crankcase. I believe the only reason a person would do that is to get an accurate oil level check. -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324735#324735 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.