Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Re: Cracks in Crankcase (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 07:13 AM - Re: ethanol (Joe and Joan Kimbell)
3. 07:14 AM - Re: Cracks in Crankcase (Roger Lee)
4. 10:04 AM - Re: ethanol (FLYaDIVE)
5. 11:53 AM - Re: Cracks in Crankcase (ronlee)
6. 12:08 PM - Re: ethanol (Joe and Joan Kimbell)
7. 03:45 PM - Re: ethanol (FLYaDIVE)
8. 05:25 PM - Re: ethanol (Dave)
9. 05:59 PM - Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question (dashwood)
10. 06:28 PM - Re: ethanol (Noel Loveys)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cracks in Crankcase |
> Has anyone heard of the Crankcase cracking on a 912uls? SB-912-029
makes it sound
like it can easily happen. Or is that CYA?<
I heard about this happening in one of my recent 912 classes. Apparently
too much pitch on the prop can over load earlier cases and create stresses
leading to case cracking thus the min 5200 static (WOT) Rotax calls for in
their bulletin.
Dick Maddux
Milton ,Fl
Message 2
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Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the 100
hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying much la
tely. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had bee
n in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain=2C I found cloudy fuel
=2C not water=2C but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it
was clear=2C probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point o
f seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems=2C but after thinkin
g about it=2C what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running=2C
though an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No ext
ernal fuel pump. Gravity feed.
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cracks in Crankcase |
Hi Dick,
Now that you mention that I do remember them talking about that in class. Just
another good reason for people to follow Rotax recommendations and not branch
out on their own and experiment. Rotax has many thousands of hours of experience
and knowledge from a world's worth of 912's and 20 years of time not to mention
their own testing. I think I'll defer to their wisdom and and keep my engine
strong right up to TBO and beyond.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329964#329964
Message 4
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Joe:
There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
Contamination in the tank.
Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out
from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing the
water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol - Do
the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you will
reduce the chances of water.
Barry
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <
jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the
> 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying much
> lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had
> been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel,
> not water, but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was
> clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of
> seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking
> about it, what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, though
> an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external
> fuel pump. Gravity feed.
>
> =========
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cracks in Crankcase |
I too remember reading Rotax 912 information about dragging the engine down by
over propping as being the cause of cracking crankcases. I believe the MINIMUM
required on wide open throttle is 5400 rpm.
I believe some have a tendency to want to run our engines at lower rpm then they
were designed for. Maybe we feel they Will burn less fuel and or last longer.
If anyone has different info please post.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330023#330023
Message 6
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Barry=2C Sorry=2C I meant to say one half pint. Have no idea what Hygroscop
ic action means. Live in central FL and keep A/C in hangar. Un likly temp
ever went down to 32 in hangar. Yes=2C I mean separating due to saturation
. I am aware of the separation discussed and felt that someone who had don
e this would know if there was a period of cloudy looking just prior to sep
aration. Thanks=2C Joe
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
From: flyadive@gmail.com
Joe:
There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
Contamination in the tank.
Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
When you say 'separation'=2C are you referring to the water separating out
from the fuel due to saturation? If yes=2C then YES you could be seeing th
e water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol - Do
the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you will
reduce the chances of water.
Barry
On Mon=2C Feb 7=2C 2011 at 10:10 AM=2C Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hot
mail.com> wrote:
Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the 100
hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying much la
tely. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had bee
n in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain=2C I found cloudy fuel
=2C not water=2C but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it
was clear=2C probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point o
f seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems=2C but after thinkin
g about it=2C what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running=2C
though an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No ext
ernal fuel pump. Gravity feed.
=========
>
>
>
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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Joe:
A half pint is only 8 ounces... Not much in the scheme of things. What does
concern me is the cloudiness. When I was renting I have drained over a
gallon from one wing. And then I kept draining a second gallon just to make
sure. I gave ALL of it back to the FBO :-) BUT - None of it was cloudy.
How did you seal the tank?
What material did you use?
>From what you say Temps are not your problem.
I would Drain ALL the fuel.
Strain it through some cheese cloth as you drain to see if there are
any contaminates
Remove the sump drains
Inspect them for corrosion and proper height when fitted into the sump drain
threads
Flush the tank
You can use water followed by a rinse with gas.
Since you use MoGas I'd bet dollars to donuts that you did not filter the
gas prior to, or while filling the tank. Not knowing what you put in...
Only leads to not knowing where the contamination comes from.
Separation due to saturation would only reveal WATER. As long as the gas
was clean to start with and there is no contamination from the tank.
Barry
Message 8
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You can get cloudy looking fuel if you used additives in your fuel.
Some
things when mixed with water will cloud up when agitated, It's possible
that the stuff sank with the water into your sump.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
Joe:
A half pint is only 8 ounces... Not much in the scheme of things. What
does
concern me is the cloudiness. When I was renting I have drained over a
gallon from one wing. And then I kept draining a second gallon just to
make
sure. I gave ALL of it back to the FBO :-) BUT - None of it was
cloudy.
How did you seal the tank?
What material did you use?
>From what you say Temps are not your problem.
I would Drain ALL the fuel.
Strain it through some cheese cloth as you drain to see if there are any
contaminates
Remove the sump drains
Inspect them for corrosion and proper height when fitted into the sump
drain
threads
Flush the tank
You can use water followed by a rinse with gas.
Since you use MoGas I'd bet dollars to donuts that you did not filter
the
gas prior to, or while filling the tank. Not knowing what you put in...
Only leads to not knowing where the contamination comes from.
Separation due to saturation would only reveal WATER. As long as the
gas
was clean to start with and there is no contamination from the tank.
Barry
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
Last time up i had a low voltage warning light show on the ems. low end threshold
of 12v. it seemed to only appear when i keyed the radio mic and / or cycled
the elec fuel pump on. took me a while to realize the correlation here. from
this thread it would seem to be a blown regulator.. i have not had a chance to
go in with a volt meter and check for voltage to the reg. the plane was up
for almost 2 hrs in this condition. no warning light but for when using radio
which is really the only draw other then the ems. seemed to be getting worse
to the end of the flight so proly battery was getting down...Q= will engine continue
to run with dead battery, assuming the generator fields are working? will
engine run without generator but a full battery? i use a photo cell charger
to keep battery topped up between flights so always had full charge to start.
battery is 2 years old and only fair condition, on schedule to be replaced.
question... am i on the right track... what is the problem with the master/alternator
switch off sequence... one first then the other and what happens if wrong
one is switche first..?
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 450tt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330079#330079
Message 10
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If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already
broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane for an
extended period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said, it will
absorb some of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets closer
to a phase separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tanks
if they are anything but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat
your fuel system including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to
leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when
you have a phase separation happening... you will get something just over
10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank showing up as water. So if you
have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane then if it separates you will get
1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or
injectors. A little good news is if you are using a paper filter it will
try to block the water from passing... unfortunately there won't be
anything else but water to pass. The milky substance you did find is
probably something the ethanol started to eat.
The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel by
adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon the clear
ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form on
the bottom of the container. Be careful though, to let the gas sit for
about twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning the
gas. And always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either of
those products will pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol from
your fuel then it won't hurt to leave the gas in your plane between flights
for periods of up to I guess a month or so.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
Joe:
There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
Contamination in the tank.
Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out
from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing the
water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol - Do
the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you will
reduce the chances of water.
Barry
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell
<jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the
100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying much
lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had
been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel,
not water, but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was
clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of
seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking
about it, what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, though
an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external
fuel pump. Gravity feed.
=========
>
>
>
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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