Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:36 AM - Re: ethanol (Joel M.)
2. 08:36 AM - Re: ethanol (Pete Christensen)
3. 11:11 AM - Re: ethanol (b d)
Message 1
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http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=ID
--- On Tue, 2/8/11, Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
=0A=0A=0A=C2-
=0AGENTLEMEN:=C2- Thank you for your input.=C2- I have found a source f
or 90 oct. ethanol free fuel for about 50 cents a gal. over pump price.=C2
- sounds like a good deal to me.=C2- After following all of the excelle
nt suggestions.=C2- I am switching to the ethanol free fuel.=C2- Wish i
t was available for everyone.=C2-=C2-=C2- Thanks again,=C2- Joe
=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-
=0A
=C2-
=0A=0A=0AFrom: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
=0A =0A=0A#yiv225431252 .yiv225431252ExternalClass p.yiv225431252ecxMsoNorm
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=0A{}=0A _filtered #yiv225431252 {}=0A#yiv225431252 .yiv225431252ExternalCl
ass div.yiv225431252ecxWordSection1=0A{}=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AIf you really, reall
y have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already broken the first cardin
al rule.=C2- Never leave fuel in your plane for an extended period of tim
e.=C2- If you have high humidity, as you said, =C2-it will absorb some
of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets closer to a phase s
eparation but becomes very corrosive....=C2- It may eat your tanks if the
y are anything but stainless steel.=C2- It will probably start to eat you
r fuel system including the carb body and the fuel lines.=C2- Best not to
leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh fuel.=C2- BTW you will know
when you have a phase separation happening...=C2- you will get something
just over 10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank showing up as water.=C2
- So if you have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane then if it separat
es you will get 1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hittin
g your carb or injectors.=C2- A little good news is if you are using a pa
per filter it
will try to block the water from passing...=C2- unfortunately there won
=99t be anything else but water to pass.=C2- The milky substance yo
u did find is probably something the ethanol started to eat. =0A=C2-=0ATh
e second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel by a
dding enough water to cause a phase separation.=C2- Then siphon the clear
ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form
on the bottom of the container.=C2- Be careful though, to let the gas sit
for about twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning
the gas.=C2- And always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas...
=C2- either of those products will pass gas but not water. =C2-If you r
emove the ethanol from your fuel then it won=99t hurt to leave the ga
s in your plane between flights for periods of up to I guess a month or so.
=0A=C2-=0ANoel=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0AFrom: owner-rotaxengines-l
ist-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.c
om] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol=0A=C2-=0AJoe:=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0ATh
ere are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:=0A=0AContamin
ation in the tank.=0A=0AHygroscopic=C2-action of the alcohol=0A=0ATempera
ture (low) causing the water to freeze=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0ABeing that you foun
d only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:=0A=0AThe drain plugs as being conta
minated due to oxidation=0A=0AHow clean was the inspection tube that you we
re using=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AWhen you say 'separation', are=C2-you=C2-refe
rring=C2-to the water=C2-separating=C2-out from the fuel due to satur
ation? =C2-If yes, then YES you could be seeing the water above what the
alcohol would hold in=C2-suspension.=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AA 1/2 ounce... I wo
uld not worry about. =C2-But why use gas with=C2-ethanol=C2-- Do the
=C2-separation=C2-procedure that has been discussed here on line and yo
u will reduce the chances of water.=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0ABarry=0A=0AOn Mon, Feb
7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
=0A=0AAppreciate some info concerning fuel seperation.=C2- I have=C2-CH
701 with the 100hp riotax.=C2- I live in a high humedity area and have no
t been flying much lately.=C2- I use 10% =C2-ethanol fuel and last time
I started to fly (fuel had been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowes
t drain, I found cloudy fuel, not water, but did not lood good.=C2- I=C2
-continued to drain fuel until it was clear, probably a half an ounce. Wa
s this cloudy fuel on the point of seperation?=C2- I=C2-did go ahead an
d fly with no problems, but after thinking about it, what would the list's
ideas be.=C2- Very glad it kept=C2-running, though an both tanks the fu
el=C2-seemed to come=C2-out of only one tank.=C2- No external fuel pu
mp.=C2- Gravity feed.
=C2-
=========
>
>
> =C2-=C2-ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rot
axEngines-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution=C2-=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rota
xEngines-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributi
on=C2-
-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A
Message 2
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There is a great survey about avgas/mogas. Go here if interested. It's
worth a couple minutes.
http://www.questionpro.com/akira/TakeSurvey?id 34975
Pete
Kitfox III, 912
On 2/16/2011 6:30 AM, Joel M. wrote:
> http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=ID
>
> --- On *Tue, 2/8/11, Joe and Joan Kimbell /<jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>/*
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 5:55 AM
>
>
> GENTLEMEN: Thank you for your input. I have found a source for
> 90 oct. ethanol free fuel for about 50 cents a gal. over pump
> price. sounds like a good deal to me. After following all of the
> excellent suggestions. I am switching to the ethanol free fuel.
> Wish it was available for everyone. Thanks again, Joe
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:53:28 -0330
>
> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have
> already broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your
> plane for an extended period of time. If you have high humidity,
> as you said, it will absorb some of the moisture and when that
> happens it, not only gets closer to a phase separation but becomes
> very corrosive.... It may eat your tanks if they are anything but
> stainless steel. It will probably start to eat your fuel system
> including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to leave it
> in the plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when
> you have a phase separation happening... you will get something
> just over 10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank showing up as
> water. So if you have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane then
> if it separates you will get 1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution
> (mostly water) hitting your carb or injectors. A little good news
> is if you are using a paper filter it will try to block the water
> from passing... unfortunately there wont be anything else but
> water to pass. The milky substance you did find is probably
> something the ethanol started to eat.
>
> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form
> your fuel by adding enough water to cause a phase separation.
> Then siphon the clear ethanol free gas off the top of the water
> ethanol solution that will form on the bottom of the container.
> Be careful though, to let the gas sit for about twenty minutes so
> all the water can settle out before siphoning the gas. And always
> use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either of those
> products will pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol
> from your fuel then it wont hurt to leave the gas in your plane
> between flights for periods of up to I _guess_ a month or so.
>
> Noel
>
> *From:*owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf
> Of *FLYaDIVE
> *Sent:* February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> Joe:
>
> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>
> Contamination in the tank.
>
> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>
> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>
> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>
> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>
> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>
> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the
> water separating out from the fuel due to saturation? If yes,
> then YES you could be seeing the water above what the alcohol
> would hold in suspension.
>
> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas
> with ethanol - Do the separation procedure that has been discussed
> here on line and you will reduce the chances of water.
>
> Barry
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell
> <jnjkimbell@hotmail.com </mc/compose?to=jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701
> with the 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have
> not been flying much lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last
> time I started to fly (fuel had been in A/C over a month) and
> checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel, not water, but did
> not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was clear,
> probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of
> seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after
> thinking about it, what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it
> kept running, though an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of
> only one tank. No external fuel pump. Gravity feed.
>
> =========
> >
> >
> >
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *ist"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> -List"
> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rotarget="_blank"
> el="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribu==
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>*
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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Sorry that I got in on this thread late. Can anyone direct me to the entire
thread please? Thanks, Bruce
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:30 AM, Joel M. <dirtfly7@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=ID
>
> --- On *Tue, 2/8/11, Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>* wrote
:
>
>
> From: Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 5:55 AM
>
>
> GENTLEMEN: Thank you for your input. I have found a source for 90 oct.
> ethanol free fuel for about 50 cents a gal. over pump price. sounds like
a
> good deal to me. After following all of the excellent suggestions. I am
> switching to the ethanol free fuel. Wish it was available for everyone.
> Thanks again, Joe
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:53:28 -0330
>
> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already
> broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane for an
> extended period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said, it wil
l
> absorb some of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets close
r
> to a phase separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tan
ks
> if they are anything but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat
> your fuel system including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to
> leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when
> you have a phase separation happening... you will get something just ove
r
> 10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank showing up as water. So if you
> have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane then if it separates you will
get
> 1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or
> injectors. A little good news is if you are using a paper filter it will
> try to block the water from passing... unfortunately there won=92t be
> anything else but water to pass. The milky substance you did find is
> probably something the ethanol started to eat.
>
>
> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel
by
> adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon the clear
> ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form
on
> the bottom of the container. Be careful though, to let the gas sit for
> about twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning the
> gas. And always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either
of
> those products will pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol fr
om
> your fuel then it won=92t hurt to leave the gas in your plane between fli
ghts
> for periods of up to I *guess* a month or so.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE
> *Sent:* February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
>
> Joe:
>
>
> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>
> Contamination in the tank.
>
> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>
> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>
>
> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>
> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>
> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>
>
> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out
> from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing th
e
> water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
>
>
> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol - D
o
> the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you wil
l
> reduce the chances of water.
>
>
> Barry
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <
> jnjkimbell@hotmail.com <http://mc/compose?to=jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the
> 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying mu
ch
> lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had
> been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fu
el,
> not water, but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was
> clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of
> seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking
> about it, what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, tho
ugh
> an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external
> fuel pump. Gravity feed.
>
> =========
> >
> >
> >
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *ist"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> -List"
> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rotarget="_blank"
> el="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contri
bu==
>
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>
> *
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