Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:07 PM - 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (ejessee)
2. 01:56 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Don Hudgeon)
3. 02:58 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Hugh McKay)
4. 03:49 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (ejessee)
5. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Robert Borger)
6. 05:51 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Roger Lee)
7. 06:25 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Don Hudgeon)
8. 10:12 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Roger Lee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
Hello.
My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have the carbs
balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is smooth
and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM is 5500 at
70 mph.
My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the starter
drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a real bear
to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme gas smell.
I think it's flooding.
Any advice appreciated.
PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop is lighter.
It might be harder to start since this change.
--------
Ernest Jessee
N4931M
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340169#340169
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
Hello Ernest
Be very cautious with "added fuel" on these hot starts. A couple of months
ago I had the same thing but just on one start. I thought it was maybe
flooded so I gave it full throttle for a few seconds to clear the flood and
the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a halon extinguisher on the consul
and put it out right away. It took a lot of effort to clean up the engine
because it burned up the mag wires, manifold pressure lines,etc. Also
required repair to the top cowling. Things get HOT very quickly with a
gasoline fire!!
I have since routed the carb vent tubes into the air filters just in case
the raw fuel may have puked out them when cranking during the start.
Take care
Don Hudgeon
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM, ejessee <eejessee@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> Hello.
> My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have
> the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is
> smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM
> is 5500 at 70 mph.
>
> My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the
> starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a
> real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme
> gas smell. I think it's flooding.
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop
> is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change.
>
> --------
> Ernest Jessee
> N4931M
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340169#340169
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
Don,
Do you have the excess fuel cups under your carbs?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Don Hudgeon
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot
Hello Ernest
Be very cautious with "added fuel" on these hot starts. A couple of
months ago I had the same thing but just on one start. I thought it was
maybe flooded so I gave it full throttle for a few seconds to clear the
flood and the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a halon extinguisher
on the consul and put it out right away. It took a lot of effort to
clean up the engine because it burned up the mag wires, manifold
pressure lines,etc. Also required repair to the top cowling. Things get
HOT very quickly with a gasoline fire!!
I have since routed the carb vent tubes into the air filters just in
case the raw fuel may have puked out them when cranking during the
start.
Take care
Don Hudgeon
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM, ejessee <eejessee@us.ibm.com> wrote:
<eejessee@us.ibm.com>
Hello.
My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and
have the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold
start is smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220.
Climb out RPM is 5500 at 70 mph.
My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let
the starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then
it's a real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result
in extreme gas smell. I think it's flooding.
Any advice appreciated.
PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This
prop is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change.
--------
Ernest Jessee
N4931M
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340169#340169
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
Thank you for your reply. Wow! A fire.
I have an extinguisher... still. Any idea what causes this flooding to happen?
What is the proper remedy for a flood... just wait?
--------
Ernest Jessee
N4931M
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340191#340191
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
Ernest,
Do you have the "drip trays" under your carbs?
If you do not, your problem isn't flooding, it is vapor lock. You are boiling
the fuel in your carb bowls. The "drip trays" also act as heat shields to protect
the carb bowls from the heat of the exhaust pipes.
You can install the Rotax items or add some sort of heat shielding between the
exhaust pipes and carbs.
Search the archives for "vapor lock" or "hot start"
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On May 17, 2011, at 17:46, ejessee wrote:
>
> Thank you for your reply. Wow! A fire.
>
> I have an extinguisher... still. Any idea what causes this flooding to happen?
What is the proper remedy for a flood... just wait?
>
> --------
> Ernest Jessee
> N4931M
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
Mr. Borger is right. After you shut down with a cowled engine the heat just sits
there and cooks everything up to a little higher temp because you have no air
flow going through your system and you do not have a fuel pump operating moving
cooler fuel through the system. You are not flooding. You are just cooking
the fuel a little more and have some vapors. When it's hot do not use the choke
and let the plane run a little bit longer after a hot start to get some cooler
fuel to move through the system. Some of you with a fuel pressure gauge may
even see low fuel pressures. That will go away after a bit as the cooler fuel
cools the vapors.
Carb drip trays do help in shielding some heat from the exhaust, but more importantly
it should be set up so any leaking fuel does not drip right on top of a
hot exhaust.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340206#340206
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
Hello Hugh
I did NOT when I had the fire. Since I have routed them into the air filter
as per Roger Lee`s suggestion.
Don
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Don,
>
> Do you have the excess fuel cups under your carbs?
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
> *From:* Don Hudgeon <don@hudgeon.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:53 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot
>
> Hello Ernest
> Be very cautious with "added fuel" on these hot starts. A couple of months
> ago I had the same thing but just on one start. I thought it was maybe
> flooded so I gave it full throttle for a few seconds to clear the flood and
> the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a halon extinguisher on the consul
> and put it out right away. It took a lot of effort to clean up the engine
> because it burned up the mag wires, manifold pressure lines,etc. Also
> required repair to the top cowling. Things get HOT very quickly with a
> gasoline fire!!
> I have since routed the carb vent tubes into the air filters just in case
> the raw fuel may have puked out them when cranking during the start.
> Take care
> Don Hudgeon
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM, ejessee <eejessee@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello.
>> My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have
>> the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is
>> smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM
>> is 5500 at 70 mph.
>>
>> My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the
>> starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a
>> real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme
>> gas smell. I think it's flooding.
>>
>> Any advice appreciated.
>>
>> PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop
>> is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change.
>>
>> --------
>> Ernest Jessee
>> N4931M
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340169#340169
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
Everyone should have drip trays or some sort of fuel verses hot exhaust pipe separation.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340237#340237
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