---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/17/11: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:07 PM - 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (ejessee) 2. 01:56 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Don Hudgeon) 3. 02:58 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Hugh McKay) 4. 03:49 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (ejessee) 5. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Robert Borger) 6. 05:51 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Roger Lee) 7. 06:25 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Don Hudgeon) 8. 10:12 PM - Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot (Roger Lee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:49 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot From: "ejessee" Hello. My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM is 5500 at 70 mph. My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme gas smell. I think it's flooding. Any advice appreciated. PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change. -------- Ernest Jessee N4931M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340169#340169 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot From: Don Hudgeon Hello Ernest Be very cautious with "added fuel" on these hot starts. A couple of months ago I had the same thing but just on one start. I thought it was maybe flooded so I gave it full throttle for a few seconds to clear the flood and the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a halon extinguisher on the consul and put it out right away. It took a lot of effort to clean up the engine because it burned up the mag wires, manifold pressure lines,etc. Also required repair to the top cowling. Things get HOT very quickly with a gasoline fire!! I have since routed the carb vent tubes into the air filters just in case the raw fuel may have puked out them when cranking during the start. Take care Don Hudgeon On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM, ejessee wrote: > > Hello. > My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have > the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is > smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM > is 5500 at 70 mph. > > My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the > starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a > real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme > gas smell. I think it's flooding. > > Any advice appreciated. > > PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop > is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change. > > -------- > Ernest Jessee > N4931M > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340169#340169 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:36 PM PST US From: "Hugh McKay" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot Don, Do you have the excess fuel cups under your carbs? Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com From: Don Hudgeon Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:53 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot Hello Ernest Be very cautious with "added fuel" on these hot starts. A couple of months ago I had the same thing but just on one start. I thought it was maybe flooded so I gave it full throttle for a few seconds to clear the flood and the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a halon extinguisher on the consul and put it out right away. It took a lot of effort to clean up the engine because it burned up the mag wires, manifold pressure lines,etc. Also required repair to the top cowling. Things get HOT very quickly with a gasoline fire!! I have since routed the carb vent tubes into the air filters just in case the raw fuel may have puked out them when cranking during the start. Take care Don Hudgeon On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM, ejessee wrote: Hello. My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM is 5500 at 70 mph. My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme gas smell. I think it's flooding. Any advice appreciated. PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change. -------- Ernest Jessee N4931M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340169#340169 ========== -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:39 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot From: "ejessee" Thank you for your reply. Wow! A fire. I have an extinguisher... still. Any idea what causes this flooding to happen? What is the proper remedy for a flood... just wait? -------- Ernest Jessee N4931M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340191#340191 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot From: Robert Borger Ernest, Do you have the "drip trays" under your carbs? If you do not, your problem isn't flooding, it is vapor lock. You are boiling the fuel in your carb bowls. The "drip trays" also act as heat shields to protect the carb bowls from the heat of the exhaust pipes. You can install the Rotax items or add some sort of heat shielding between the exhaust pipes and carbs. Search the archives for "vapor lock" or "hot start" Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On May 17, 2011, at 17:46, ejessee wrote: > > Thank you for your reply. Wow! A fire. > > I have an extinguisher... still. Any idea what causes this flooding to happen? What is the proper remedy for a flood... just wait? > > -------- > Ernest Jessee > N4931M ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:11 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot From: "Roger Lee" Mr. Borger is right. After you shut down with a cowled engine the heat just sits there and cooks everything up to a little higher temp because you have no air flow going through your system and you do not have a fuel pump operating moving cooler fuel through the system. You are not flooding. You are just cooking the fuel a little more and have some vapors. When it's hot do not use the choke and let the plane run a little bit longer after a hot start to get some cooler fuel to move through the system. Some of you with a fuel pressure gauge may even see low fuel pressures. That will go away after a bit as the cooler fuel cools the vapors. Carb drip trays do help in shielding some heat from the exhaust, but more importantly it should be set up so any leaking fuel does not drip right on top of a hot exhaust. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340206#340206 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot From: Don Hudgeon Hello Hugh I did NOT when I had the fire. Since I have routed them into the air filter as per Roger Lee`s suggestion. Don On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Hugh McKay wrote: > Don, > > Do you have the excess fuel cups under your carbs? > > Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. > Senior Consultant > Worldwide Engineering Inc. > 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 > Denver, NC 28037 > > Ph. 704-661-8271 > Fax 704-483-5466 > email hgmckay@bellsouth.net > http://www.wwegeo.com > > *From:* Don Hudgeon > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:53 PM > *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot > > Hello Ernest > Be very cautious with "added fuel" on these hot starts. A couple of months > ago I had the same thing but just on one start. I thought it was maybe > flooded so I gave it full throttle for a few seconds to clear the flood and > the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a halon extinguisher on the consul > and put it out right away. It took a lot of effort to clean up the engine > because it burned up the mag wires, manifold pressure lines,etc. Also > required repair to the top cowling. Things get HOT very quickly with a > gasoline fire!! > I have since routed the carb vent tubes into the air filters just in case > the raw fuel may have puked out them when cranking during the start. > Take care > Don Hudgeon > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM, ejessee wrote: > >> >> Hello. >> My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have >> the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is >> smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM >> is 5500 at 70 mph. >> >> My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the >> starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a >> real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme >> gas smell. I think it's flooding. >> >> Any advice appreciated. >> >> PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop >> is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change. >> >> -------- >> Ernest Jessee >> N4931M >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340169#340169 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> -List" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:20 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot From: "Roger Lee" Everyone should have drip trays or some sort of fuel verses hot exhaust pipe separation. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340237#340237 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.