Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Re: Low Oil Pressure (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 07:40 AM - Re: ethanol (Pete Christensen)
3. 08:33 AM - Re: ethanol (ray atkinson)
4. 08:42 AM - Re: ethanol (william sullivan)
5. 09:27 AM - Re: ethanol (Rick Thomason)
6. 09:28 AM - Re: ethanol (Rick Thomason)
7. 10:03 AM - Re: ethanol (FLYaDIVE)
8. 10:36 AM - Re: ethanol (Pete Christensen)
9. 10:43 AM - Re: ethanol (ray atkinson)
10. 12:06 PM - Re: ethanol (paul wilson)
11. 12:15 PM - Re: ethanol (Roger Lee)
12. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: ethanol (FLYaDIVE)
13. 03:37 PM - Re: ethanol (FLYaDIVE)
14. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: ethanol (Pete Christensen)
15. 04:44 PM - Re: ethanol (Rick Thomason)
16. 04:47 PM - Re: ethanol (Rick Thomason)
17. 05:44 PM - Re: ethanol (Roger Lee)
18. 06:03 PM - Re: ethanol (dave)
19. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: ethanol (FLYaDIVE)
20. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: ethanol (FLYaDIVE)
21. 08:41 PM - Re: ethanol (Richard Girard)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Low Oil Pressure |
BJ,
I too had problems with big oil pressure fluctuations when I installed
the new "mushroom" I went back to the old ball and problem solved.That's what
I am using now.
Aeroshell Plus 4 seems to be running fine with good temps/pressures in my
engine.
Dick Maddux
Milton,Fl
old 912 UL
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a
small amount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting.
I drain my gascolator before and after each flight. The gascolator bowl
has started to rust and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with
Kreem. I discontinued using washed gas over the winter since my plane
sat more. I may try washing my gas twice to see if this stops the
settlement.
Pete
On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have
> already broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your
> plane for an extended period of time. If you have high humidity, as
> you said, it will absorb some of the moisture and when that happens
> it, not only gets closer to a phase separation but becomes very
> corrosive.... It may eat your tanks if they are anything but
> stainless steel. It will probably start to eat your fuel system
> including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to leave it in
> the plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when you have
> a phase separation happening... you will get something just over 10%
> of the quantity of fuel in your tank showing up as water. So if you
> have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane then if it separates you
> will get 1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting
> your carb or injectors. A little good news is if you are using a
> paper filter it will try to block the water from passing...
> unfortunately there won't be anything else but water to pass. The
> milky substance you did find is probably something the ethanol started
> to eat.
>
> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your
> fuel by adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon
> the clear ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution
> that will form on the bottom of the container. Be careful though, to
> let the gas sit for about twenty minutes so all the water can settle
> out before siphoning the gas. And always use a good chamois or felt
> to strain your gas... either of those products will pass gas but not
> water. If you remove the ethanol from your fuel then it won't hurt to
> leave the gas in your plane between flights for periods of up to I
> _guess_ a month or so.
>
> Noel
>
> *From:*owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *FLYaDIVE
> *Sent:* February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> Joe:
>
> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>
> Contamination in the tank.
>
> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>
> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>
> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>
> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>
> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>
> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the
> water separating out from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then
> YES you could be seeing the water above what the alcohol would hold
> in suspension.
>
> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas
> with ethanol - Do the separation procedure that has been discussed
> here on line and you will reduce the chances of water.
>
> Barry
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell
> <jnjkimbell@hotmail.com <mailto:jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with
> the 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been
> flying much lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started
> to fly (fuel had been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest
> drain, I found cloudy fuel, not water, but did not lood good.
> I continued to drain fuel until it was clear, probably a half an
> ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of seperation? I did go
> ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking about it, what
> would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, though an both
> tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external fuel
> pump. Gravity feed.
>
> =========
> >
> >
> >
>
> * *
> * *
> *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble free
on this stuff??
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Christensen
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a
small amount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting.
I drain my gascolator before and after each flight. The gascolator bowl
has started to rust and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with
Kreem. I discontinued using washed gas over the winter since my plane
sat more. I may try washing my gas twice to see if this stops the
settlement.
Pete
On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have
already broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane
for an extended period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said,
it will absorb some of the moisture and when that happens it, not only
gets closer to a phase separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may
eat your tanks if they are anything but stainless steel. It will
probably start to eat your fuel system including the carb body and the
fuel lines. Best not to leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh
fuel. BTW you will know when you have a phase separation happening...
you will get something just over 10% of the quantity of fuel in your
tank showing up as water. So if you have left say 15 gal of fuel in
your plane then if it separates you will get 1.5 gallons of
water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or injectors. A
little good news is if you are using a paper filter it will try to block
the water from passing... unfortunately there won't be anything else
but water to pass. The milky substance you did find is probably
something the ethanol started to eat.
The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your
fuel by adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon
the clear ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution
that will form on the bottom of the container. Be careful though, to
let the gas sit for about twenty minutes so all the water can settle out
before siphoning the gas. And always use a good chamois or felt to
strain your gas... either of those products will pass gas but not
water. If you remove the ethanol from your fuel then it won't hurt to
leave the gas in your plane between flights for periods of up to I guess
a month or so.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE
Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
Joe:
There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
Contamination in the tank.
Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating
out from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be
seeing the water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with
ethanol - Do the separation procedure that has been discussed here on
line and you will reduce the chances of water.
Barry
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell
<jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with
the 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been
flying much lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to
fly (fuel had been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I
found cloudy fuel, not water, but did not lood good. I continued to
drain fuel until it was clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy
fuel on the point of seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no
problems, but after thinking about it, what would the list's ideas be.
Very glad it kept running, though an both tanks the fuel seemed to come
out of only one tank. No external fuel pump. Gravity feed.
=========
>
>
>
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listtp:
//forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
======
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
http://www.pctools.com
=======
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
=C2- Their tanks are sealed, and they purchase fresh gas all the time.
--- On Wed, 5/25/11, ray atkinson <raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
From: ray atkinson <raybot@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble free on
this stuff??
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a small a
mount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting.=C2- I dr
ain my gascolator before and after each flight.=C2- The gascolator bowl h
as started to rust and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with Kreem.
=C2- I discontinued using washed gas over the winter since my plane sat m
ore.=C2- I may try washing my gas twice to see if this stops the settleme
nt.
Pete
On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
_filtered #yiv2057271879 {
font-family:Cambria Math;}
_filtered #yiv2057271879 {
font-family:Calibri;}
_filtered #yiv2057271879 {
font-family:Tahoma;}
_filtered #yiv2057271879 {
font-family:Consolas;}
_filtered #yiv2057271879 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
#yiv2057271879 P.yiv2057271879MsoNormal {
MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"serif";FONT-SIZE:12pt;}
#yiv2057271879 LI.yiv2057271879MsoNormal {
MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"serif";FONT-SIZE:12pt;}
#yiv2057271879 DIV.yiv2057271879MsoNormal {
MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"serif";FONT-SIZE:12pt;}
#yiv2057271879 A:link {
COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}
#yiv2057271879 SPAN.yiv2057271879MsoHyperlink {
COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}
#yiv2057271879 A:visited {
COLOR:purple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}
#yiv2057271879 SPAN.yiv2057271879MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
COLOR:purple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}
#yiv2057271879 PRE {
MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Courier New";FONT-SIZE:10pt;}
#yiv2057271879 SPAN.yiv2057271879HTMLPreformattedChar {
FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;}
#yiv2057271879 SPAN.yiv2057271879EmailStyle19 {
FONT-FAMILY:"serif";COLOR:windowtext;}
#yiv2057271879 .yiv2057271879MsoChpDefault {
}
#yiv2057271879 DIV.yiv2057271879WordSection1 {
}
If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already bro
ken the first cardinal rule.=C2- Never leave fuel in your plane for an ex
tended period of time.=C2- If you have high humidity, as you said, =C2-
it will absorb some of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets
closer to a phase separation but becomes very corrosive....=C2- It may e
at your tanks if they are anything but stainless steel.=C2- It will proba
bly start to eat your fuel system including the carb body and the fuel line
s.=C2- Best not to leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh fuel.=C2
- BTW you will know when you have a phase separation happening...=C2- y
ou will get something just over 10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank sh
owing up as water.=C2- So if you have left say 15 gal of fuel in your pla
ne then if it separates you will get 1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution
(mostly water) hitting your carb or injectors.=C2- A little good news is
if you are using a paper filter it
will try to block the water from passing...=C2- unfortunately there won
=99t be anything else but water to pass.=C2- The milky substance yo
u did find is probably something the ethanol started to eat.
The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel by
adding enough water to cause a phase separation.=C2- Then siphon the cle
ar ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will for
m on the bottom of the container.=C2- Be careful though, to let the gas s
it for about twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphonin
g the gas.=C2- And always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas..
.=C2- either of those products will pass gas but not water. =C2-If you
remove the ethanol from your fuel then it won=99t hurt to leave the g
as in your plane between flights for periods of up to I guess a month or so
.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengin
es-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
Joe:
There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
Contamination in the tank.
Hygroscopic=C2-action of the alcohol
Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
When you say 'separation', are=C2-you=C2-referring=C2-to the water=C2
-separating=C2-out from the fuel due to saturation? =C2-If yes, then
YES you could be seeing the water above what the alcohol would hold in=C2
-suspension.
A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. =C2-But why use gas with=C2-eth
anol=C2-- Do the=C2-separation=C2-procedure that has been discussed h
ere on line and you will reduce the chances of water.
Barry
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmail.c
om> wrote:
Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation.=C2- I have=C2-CH701 wi
th the 100hp riotax.=C2- I live in a high humedity area and have not been
flying much lately.=C2- I use 10% =C2-ethanol fuel and last time I sta
rted to fly (fuel had been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drai
n, I found cloudy fuel, not water, but did not lood good.=C2- I=C2-cont
inued to drain fuel until it was clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this
cloudy fuel on the point of seperation?=C2- I=C2-did go ahead and fly w
ith no problems, but after thinking about it, what would the list's ideas b
e.=C2- Very glad it kept=C2-running, though an both tanks the fuel=C2
-seemed to come=C2-out of only one tank.=C2- No external fuel pump.
=C2- Gravity feed.
=C2-
=========
>
>
> =C2- =C2-ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R
otaxEngines-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution =C2-
=C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listhttp://fo
rums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
======
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
http://www.pctools.com
=======
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Because they don't have fiberglass fuel tanks!
Leave a half tank of gasohol in your car for 2 months and then see how well i
t runs.
Rick
On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
> How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble free o
n this stuff??
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Pete Christensen
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a small a
mount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting. I drain my
gascolator before and after each flight. The gascolator bowl has started t
o rust and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with Kreem. I discontinu
ed using washed gas over the winter since my plane sat more. I may try wash
ing my gas twice to see if this stops the settlement.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>>
>> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already b
roken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane for an extend
ed period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said, it will absorb s
ome of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets closer to a phas
e separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tanks if they a
re anything but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat your fuel sy
stem including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to leave it in th
e plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when you have a phase
separation happening... you will get something just over 10% of the quanti
ty of fuel in your tank showing up as water. So if you have left say 15 gal
of fuel in your plane then if it separates you will get 1.5 gallons of wate
r/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or injectors. A little g
ood news is if you are using a paper filter it will try to block the water f
rom passing... unfortunately there won=99t be anything else but water
to pass. The milky substance you did find is probably something the ethano
l started to eat.
>> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel b
y adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon the clear et
hanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form on t
he bottom of the container. Be careful though, to let the gas sit for about
twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning the gas. A
nd always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either of those p
roducts will pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol from your fu
el then it won=99t hurt to leave the gas in your plane between flights
for periods of up to I guess a month or so.
>> Noel
>> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxeng
ines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
>> Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>> Joe:
>> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>> Contamination in the tank.
>> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out f
rom the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing the wa
ter above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
>> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol - D
o the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you will
reduce the chances of water.
>> Barry
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmail
.com> wrote:
>> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the 1
00hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying much l
ately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had bee
n in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel, no
t water, but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was clea
r, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of seperation
? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking about it, wha
t would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, though an both tank
s the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external fuel pump. Gra
vity feed.
>>
>> =========
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Li
st
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
>
> ======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
> http://www.pctools.com
> ======
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Who said they were "trouble free"?
On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
> How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble free o
n this stuff??
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Pete Christensen
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a small a
mount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting. I drain my
gascolator before and after each flight. The gascolator bowl has started t
o rust and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with Kreem. I discontinu
ed using washed gas over the winter since my plane sat more. I may try wash
ing my gas twice to see if this stops the settlement.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>>
>> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already b
roken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane for an extend
ed period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said, it will absorb s
ome of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets closer to a phas
e separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tanks if they a
re anything but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat your fuel sy
stem including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to leave it in th
e plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when you have a phase
separation happening... you will get something just over 10% of the quanti
ty of fuel in your tank showing up as water. So if you have left say 15 gal
of fuel in your plane then if it separates you will get 1.5 gallons of wate
r/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or injectors. A little g
ood news is if you are using a paper filter it will try to block the water f
rom passing... unfortunately there won=99t be anything else but water
to pass. The milky substance you did find is probably something the ethano
l started to eat.
>> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel b
y adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon the clear et
hanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form on t
he bottom of the container. Be careful though, to let the gas sit for about
twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning the gas. A
nd always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either of those p
roducts will pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol from your fu
el then it won=99t hurt to leave the gas in your plane between flights
for periods of up to I guess a month or so.
>> Noel
>> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxeng
ines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
>> Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>> Joe:
>> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>> Contamination in the tank.
>> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out f
rom the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing the wa
ter above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
>> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol - D
o the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you will
reduce the chances of water.
>> Barry
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmail
.com> wrote:
>> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the 1
00hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying much l
ately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had bee
n in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel, no
t water, but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was clea
r, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of seperation
? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking about it, wha
t would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, though an both tank
s the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external fuel pump. Gra
vity feed.
>>
>> =========
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Li
st
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
>
> ======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
> http://www.pctools.com
> ======
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Ray:
The issue is NOT the engine.
NOR is it the bare metals.
[Aluminum with aromatic fuels is not that good either.]
It is the compounds that are used to seal the fuel tanks AND
in some cases the fuel tanks themselves - - FIBERGLASS. Really hates
alcohol fuels.
Once in a while you will find an EXPERIMENTAL with some GAUD CRAZY fuel
line. But in most cases our standard fuel lines will work fine.
The issue with gasket and diaphragm materials is also an OLD issue.
COMPLAIN - WRITE LETTERS to your congress. It is only going to get worse.
We just dodged one bullet with the 15% ethanol. But it is only on the back
burner of the congress.
Barry
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 11:31 AM, ray atkinson <raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
> How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble free
> on this stuff??
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Pete Christensen <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a small
> amount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting. I drai
n
> my gascolator before and after each flight. The gascolator bowl has star
ted
> to rust and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with Kreem. I
> discontinued using washed gas over the winter since my plane sat more. I
> may try washing my gas twice to see if this stops the settlement.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already
> broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane for an
> extended period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said, it wil
l
> absorb some of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets close
r
> to a phase separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tan
ks
> if they are anything but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat
> your fuel system including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to
> leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when
> you have a phase separation happening... you will get something just ove
r
> 10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank showing up as water. So if you
> have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane then if it separates you will
get
> 1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or
> injectors. A little good news is if you are using a paper filter it will
> try to block the water from passing... unfortunately there won=92t be
> anything else but water to pass. The milky substance you did find is
> probably something the ethanol started to eat.
>
> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel
by
> adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon the clear
> ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form
on
> the bottom of the container. Be careful though, to let the gas sit for
> about twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning the
> gas. And always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either
of
> those products will pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol fr
om
> your fuel then it won=92t hurt to leave the gas in your plane between fli
ghts
> for periods of up to I *guess* a month or so.
>
> Noel
>
> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com<owner-rotaxengines-li
st-server@matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE
> *Sent:* February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> Joe:
>
> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>
> Contamination in the tank.
>
> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>
> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>
> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>
> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>
> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>
> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out
> from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing th
e
> water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
>
> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol -
> Do the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you
> will reduce the chances of water.
>
> Barry
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <
> jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the
> 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying mu
ch
> lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had
> been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fu
el,
> not water, but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was
> clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of
> seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking
> about it, what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, tho
ugh
> an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external
> fuel pump. Gravity feed.
>
> =========
> >
> >
> >
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-L
ist*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
>
> ======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
> http://www.pctools.com<http://www.pctools.com/?cclick=EmailFooterClean_
51>
> ======
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I know for sure my car mileage went down when they started pumping gasohol.
Pete
On 5/25/2011 11:25 AM, Rick Thomason wrote:
> Who said they were "trouble free"?
>
> On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <raybot@comcast.net
> <mailto:raybot@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>> How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble
>> free on this stuff??
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Pete Christensen <mailto:pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>>
>> What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that
>> a small amount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is
>> sitting. I drain my gascolator before and after each flight.
>> The gascolator bowl has started to rust and I plan to clean it up
>> and coat the bowl with Kreem. I discontinued using washed gas
>> over the winter since my plane sat more. I may try washing my
>> gas twice to see if this stops the settlement.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>> On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>>>
>>> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have
>>> already broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in
>>> your plane for an extended period of time. If you have high
>>> humidity, as you said, it will absorb some of the moisture and
>>> when that happens it, not only gets closer to a phase separation
>>> but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tanks if they
>>> are anything but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat
>>> your fuel system including the carb body and the fuel lines.
>>> Best not to leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh fuel.
>>> BTW you will know when you have a phase separation happening...
>>> you will get something just over 10% of the quantity of fuel in
>>> your tank showing up as water. So if you have left say 15 gal
>>> of fuel in your plane then if it separates you will get 1.5
>>> gallons of water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your
>>> carb or injectors. A little good news is if you are using a
>>> paper filter it will try to block the water from passing...
>>> unfortunately there wont be anything else but water to pass.
>>> The milky substance you did find is probably something the
>>> ethanol started to eat.
>>>
>>> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form
>>> your fuel by adding enough water to cause a phase separation.
>>> Then siphon the clear ethanol free gas off the top of the water
>>> ethanol solution that will form on the bottom of the container.
>>> Be careful though, to let the gas sit for about twenty minutes
>>> so all the water can settle out before siphoning the gas. And
>>> always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either
>>> of those products will pass gas but not water. If you remove
>>> the ethanol from your fuel then it wont hurt to leave the gas
>>> in your plane between flights for periods of up to I _guess_ a
>>> month or so.
>>>
>>> Noel
>>>
>>> *From:*owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com>
>>> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf
>>> Of *FLYaDIVE
>>> *Sent:* February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
>>> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>>>
>>> Joe:
>>>
>>> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>>>
>>> Contamination in the tank.
>>>
>>> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>>>
>>> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>>>
>>> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>>>
>>> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>>>
>>> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>>>
>>> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the
>>> water separating out from the fuel due to saturation? If yes,
>>> then YES you could be seeing the water above what the alcohol
>>> would hold in suspension.
>>>
>>> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas
>>> with ethanol - Do the separation procedure that has been
>>> discussed here on line and you will reduce the chances of water.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell
>>> <jnjkimbell@hotmail.com <mailto:jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701
>>> with the 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have
>>> not been flying much lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last
>>> time I started to fly (fuel had been in A/C over a month) and
>>> checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel, not water, but
>>> did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was
>>> clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the
>>> point of seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems,
>>> but after thinking about it, what would the list's ideas be.
>>> Very glad it kept running, though an both tanks the fuel seemed
>>> to come out of only one tank. No external fuel pump. Gravity feed.
>>>
>>> =========
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>> *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>>> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>>> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>>> **
>>> **
>>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>> **
>>> * *
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ======
>> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
>> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
>> http://www.pctools.com
>> =======
>>
>> *
>>
>> ==================================
>> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> ==================================
>> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==================================
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==================================
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I,ve burned year old gas and gas oil mix from my friends plane that was
old and never missed a beat.I know its not not great as fuel gut it
works pretty good really. Phase separation with a gallon and a half of
water? In my situation its impractical to wash gas.I am not allowed to
store gas in my hanger much less siphon it and transfer it and all this
other stuff that will eventually lead to a spill minor or
otherwise.Plane owners in adjoining hanger don,t like the smell of gas
fumes and my contract specifically forbids this.If you do it somewhere
else and then transport?
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Thomason
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
Because they don't have fiberglass fuel tanks!
Leave a half tank of gasohol in your car for 2 months and then see how
well it runs.
Rick
On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <raybot@comcast.net>
wrote:
How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble
free on this stuff??
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Christensen
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that
a small amount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is
sitting. I drain my gascolator before and after each flight. The
gascolator bowl has started to rust and I plan to clean it up and coat
the bowl with Kreem. I discontinued using washed gas over the winter
since my plane sat more. I may try washing my gas twice to see if this
stops the settlement.
Pete
On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have
already broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane
for an extended period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said,
it will absorb some of the moisture and when that happens it, not only
gets closer to a phase separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may
eat your tanks if they are anything but stainless steel. It will
probably start to eat your fuel system including the carb body and the
fuel lines. Best not to leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh
fuel. BTW you will know when you have a phase separation happening...
you will get something just over 10% of the quantity of fuel in your
tank showing up as water. So if you have left say 15 gal of fuel in
your plane then if it separates you will get 1.5 gallons of
water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or injectors. A
little good news is if you are using a paper filter it will try to block
the water from passing... unfortunately there won=99t be anything
else but water to pass. The milky substance you did find is probably
something the ethanol started to eat.
The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form
your fuel by adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then
siphon the clear ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol
solution that will form on the bottom of the container. Be careful
though, to let the gas sit for about twenty minutes so all the water can
settle out before siphoning the gas. And always use a good chamois or
felt to strain your gas... either of those products will pass gas but
not water. If you remove the ethanol from your fuel then it
won=99t hurt to leave the gas in your plane between flights for
periods of up to I guess a month or so.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE
Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
Joe:
There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
Contamination in the tank.
Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water
separating out from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you
could be seeing the water above what the alcohol would hold in
suspension.
A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with
ethanol - Do the separation procedure that has been discussed here on
line and you will reduce the chances of water.
Barry
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell
<jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701
with the 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been
flying much lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to
fly (fuel had been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I
found cloudy fuel, not water, but did not lood good. I continued to
drain fuel until it was clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy
fuel on the point of seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no
problems, but after thinking about it, what would the list's ideas be.
Very glad it kept running, though an both tanks the fuel seemed to come
out of only one tank. No external fuel pump. Gravity feed.
=========
>
>
>
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listtp:
//forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
======
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
http://www.pctools.com
=======
=========
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
=========
======
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
http://www.pctools.com
=======
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
BS
I leave two cars for 6 months each year unused
full of gas and have never seen any negative things. The cars work just fine.
True - Cars and planes are like apples and
oranges. Cars are designed for toxic and
corrosive fuel and your homebuilt or certified planes are not.
Paul
=====
At 10:24 AM 5/25/2011, Rick Thomason wrote:
>Because they don't have fiberglass fuel tanks!
>
>Leave a half tank of gasohol in your car for 2
>months and then see how well it runs.
>
>Rick
>
>On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson"
><<mailto:raybot@comcast.net>raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>How in the world do millions of cars run
>>trillions of miles trouble free on this stuff??
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <mailto:pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>Pete Christensen
>>To: <mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
>>Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>>What I have found in washing the alcohol from
>>my gasoline is that a small amount of settling
>>occurs in the tank while the plane is
>>sitting. I drain my gascolator before and
>>after each flight. The gascolator bowl has
>>started to rust and I plan to clean it up and
>>coat the bowl with Kreem. I discontinued using
>>washed gas over the winter since my plane sat
>>more. I may try washing my gas twice to see if this stops the settlement.
>>Pete
>>
>>On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>>>If you really, really have to fly on ethanol
>>>fuel then you have already broken the first
>>>cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane
>>>for an extended period of time. If you have
>>>high humidity, as you said, it will absorb
>>>some of the moisture and when that happens it,
>>>not only gets closer to a phase separation but
>>>becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your
>>>tanks if they are anything but stainless
>>>steel. It will probably start to eat your
>>>fuel system including the carb body and the
>>>fuel lines. Best not to leave it in the plane
>>>and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know
>>>when you have a phase separation
>>>happening... you will get something just over
>>>10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank
>>>showing up as water. So if you have left say
>>>15 gal of fuel in your plane then if it
>>>separates you will get 1.5 gallons of
>>>water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting
>>>your carb or injectors. A little good news is
>>>if you are using a paper filter it will try to
>>>block the water from passing... unfortunately
>>>there wont be anything else but water to
>>>pass. The milky substance you did find is
>>>probably something the ethanol started to eat.
>>>The second point is as Barry mentioned remove
>>>the ethanol form your fuel by adding enough
>>>water to cause a phase separation. Then
>>>siphon the clear ethanol free gas off the top
>>>of the water ethanol solution that will form
>>>on the bottom of the container. Be careful
>>>though, to let the gas sit for about twenty
>>>minutes so all the water can settle out before
>>>siphoning the gas. And always use a good
>>>chamois or felt to strain your gas... either
>>>of those products will pass gas but not
>>>water. If you remove the ethanol from your
>>>fuel then it wont hurt to leave the gas in
>>>your plane between flights for periods of up to I guess a month or so.
>>>Noel
>>>From:
>>><mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com>owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
>>>Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
>>>To: <mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>>>Joe:
>>>There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>>>Contamination in the tank.
>>>Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>>>Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>>>Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>>>The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>>>How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>>>When you say 'separation', are you referring
>>>to the water separating out from the fuel due
>>>to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be
>>>seeing the water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
>>>A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But
>>>why use gas with ethanol - Do the separation
>>>procedure that has been discussed here on line
>>>and you will reduce the chances of water.
>>>Barry
>>>On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan
>>>Kimbell <<mailto:jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>Appreciate some info concerning fuel
>>>seperation. I have CH701 with the 100hp
>>>riotax. I live in a high humedity area and
>>>have not been flying much lately. I use
>>>10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to
>>>fly (fuel had been in A/C over a month) and
>>>checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel,
>>>not water, but did not lood good. I continued
>>>to drain fuel until it was clear, probably a
>>>half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the
>>>point of seperation? I did go ahead and fly
>>>with no problems, but after thinking about it,
>>>what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it
>>>kept running, though an both tanks the fuel
>>>seemed to come out of only one tank. No external fuel pump. Gravity feed.
>>>
>>>=========
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>ist"
>>>target="_blank"><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>>
>>>tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>>_blank"><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>>
>>><http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>href="<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List"><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>
>>
>>href="<http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com"><http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>href="<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution"><http://www.matronics.com/c>http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>======
>>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
>>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
>><http://www.pctools.com>http://www.pctools.com
>>======
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>==================================
>>st"><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>==================================
>>ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>==================================
>>http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>==================================
>>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
If you use washed 91 oct it will be 87 when your done. If you have a 912ULS (100
hp) that won't work. If you start with 87 oct it isn't fit for either 912.
You will eventually end up replacing the carb bowls at $100 a piece because the
very small amount of moisture still in the fuel will pit the aluminum bowl.
I have had to replace a few of these already for the long term hard core washers.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340993#340993
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Roger:
How did you get the octane rating of 87 after washing 91?
Alcohol does add a small amount of octane but I really doubt if it is 4
points.
Do you know anyone that can run octane tests?
I have a couple of tests I want to get done.
As for the pitting of the fuel bowl... That is an easy cure. Send it out
and get it Hard Coat Anodized to a thickness of 0.0025". It should cost
about $20 to $50 tops. When talking to the plating house you - should -
know what kind of aluminum it is made from. OR at least if it is cast or
machined from a billet. Also be nice to the house and ask if they could
just run it with a bigger batch - NO SPECIAL HANDLING REQUIRED. This keeps
price down.
Barry
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> If you use washed 91 oct it will be 87 when your done. If you have a 912ULS
> (100 hp) that won't work. If you start with 87 oct it isn't fit for either
> 912. You will eventually end up replacing the carb bowls at $100 a piece
> because the very small amount of moisture still in the fuel will pit the
> aluminum bowl. I have had to replace a few of these already for the long
> term hard core washers.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340993#340993
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
You are correct Pete:
The HP went down about 10%.
And you probably see a 10% reduction in fuel economy.
So now you burn 10% more fuel for the same time or distance.
SOooooo if you are burning 10% more fuel and there is a 10% reduction in
hydrocarbons how the hell is there a reduction in pollution?
Ask the congress and the EPA to explain that! It must be the NEW MATH!
Barry
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Pete Christensen <
pchristensen10@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> I know for sure my car mileage went down when they started pumping
> gasohol.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 5/25/2011 11:25 AM, Rick Thomason wrote:
>
> Who said they were "trouble free"?
>
> On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble fre
e
> on this stuff??
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Pete Christensen <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a smal
l
> amount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting. I drai
n
> my gascolator before and after each flight. The gascolator bowl has star
ted
> to rust and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with Kreem. I
> discontinued using washed gas over the winter since my plane sat more. I
> may try washing my gas twice to see if this stops the settlement.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already
> broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane for an
> extended period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said, it wil
l
> absorb some of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets close
r
> to a phase separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tan
ks
> if they are anything but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat
> your fuel system including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to
> leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when
> you have a phase separation happening... you will get something just ove
r
> 10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank showing up as water. So if you
> have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane then if it separates you will
get
> 1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or
> injectors. A little good news is if you are using a paper filter it will
> try to block the water from passing... unfortunately there won=92t be
> anything else but water to pass. The milky substance you did find is
> probably something the ethanol started to eat.
>
> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel
by
> adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon the clear
> ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form
on
> the bottom of the container. Be careful though, to let the gas sit for
> about twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning the
> gas. And always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either
of
> those products will pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol fr
om
> your fuel then it won=92t hurt to leave the gas in your plane between fli
ghts
> for periods of up to I *guess* a month or so.
>
> Noel
>
> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com<owner-rotaxengines-li
st-server@matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE
> *Sent:* February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> Joe:
>
> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>
> Contamination in the tank.
>
> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>
> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>
> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>
> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>
> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>
> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out
> from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing th
e
> water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
>
> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol -
> Do the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you
> will reduce the chances of water.
>
> Barry
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <
> jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the
> 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying mu
ch
> lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had
> been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fu
el,
> not water, but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was
> clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of
> seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking
> about it, what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, tho
ugh
> an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external
> fuel pump. Gravity feed.
>
> =========
> >
> >
> >
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-L
ist*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
>
> ======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
> http://www.pctools.com
> ======
>
> *
>
> ========================
> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> ========================
> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> ========================
===========http://www.matronics.com/contribution">htt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ========================
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
According to Portablefuelsystems.com before washing 91.3 octane after
washing 88.7.
Pete
On 5/25/2011 5:28 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Hi Roger:
>
> How did you get the octane rating of 87 after washing 91?
>
> Alcohol does add a small amount of octane but I really doubt if it is
> 4 points.
>
> Do you know anyone that can run octane tests?
>
> I have a couple of tests I want to get done.
>
> As for the pitting of the fuel bowl... That is an easy cure. Send it
> out and get it Hard Coat Anodized to a thickness of 0.0025". It
> should cost about $20 to $50 tops. When talking to the plating house
> you - should - know what kind of aluminum it is made from. OR at
> least if it is cast or machined from a billet. Also be nice to the
> house and ask if they could just run it with a bigger batch - NO
> SPECIAL HANDLING REQUIRED. This keeps price down.
>
> Barry
> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com
> <mailto:ssadiver1@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> <ssadiver1@yahoo.com <mailto:ssadiver1@yahoo.com>>
>
> If you use washed 91 oct it will be 87 when your done. If you have
> a 912ULS (100 hp) that won't work. If you start with 87 oct it
> isn't fit for either 912. You will eventually end up replacing the
> carb bowls at $100 a piece because the very small amount of
> moisture still in the fuel will pit the aluminum bowl. I have had
> to replace a few of these already for the long term hard core washers.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> Home 520-574-1080 <tel:520-574-1080> TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056 <tel:520-349-7056>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340993#340993
>
>
> ==========
> -List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I said "half a tank" so the ethanol can suck all the water out of the air. I just
switched over to 100LL. Better to spew lead into the air than kill myself over
a water droplet or dissolved fiberglass.
On May 25, 2011, at 1:56 PM, paul wilson <pwmac@sisna.com> wrote:
>
> BS
> I leave two cars for 6 months each year unused full of gas and have never seen
any negative things. The cars work just fine.
> True - Cars and planes are like apples and oranges. Cars are designed for toxic
and corrosive fuel and your homebuilt or certified planes are not.
> Paul
> =====
> At 10:24 AM 5/25/2011, Rick Thomason wrote:
>> Because they don't have fiberglass fuel tanks!
>>
>> Leave a half tank of gasohol in your car for 2 months and then see how well
it runs.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <<mailto:raybot@comcast.net>raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble free on
this stuff??
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <mailto:pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>Pete Christensen
>>> To: <mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
>>> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>>> What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a small amount
of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting. I drain my gascolator
before and after each flight. The gascolator bowl has started to rust
and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with Kreem. I discontinued using
washed gas over the winter since my plane sat more. I may try washing my gas
twice to see if this stops the settlement.
>>> Pete
>>>
>>> On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>>>> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already broken
the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane for an extended
period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said, it will absorb some
of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets closer to a phase separation
but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tanks if they are anything
but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat your fuel system including
the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to leave it in the plane and
only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when you have a phase separation happening...
you will get something just over 10% of the quantity of fuel in your
tank showing up as water. So if you have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane
then if it separates you will get 1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution (mostly
water) hitting your carb or injectors. A little good news is if you are
using a paper filter it will try to block the water from passing... unfortunately
there wont be anything else but water to pass. The milky substance you
did find is probably something the ethanol started to eat.
>>>> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel by
adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon the clear ethanol
free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form on the bottom
of the container. Be careful though, to let the gas sit for about twenty
minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning the gas. And always
use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either of those products will
pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol from your fuel then it
wont hurt to leave the gas in your plane between flights for periods of up to
I guess a month or so.
>>>> Noel
>>>> From: <mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com>owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
>>>> Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
>>>> To: <mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>>>> Joe:
>>>> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>>>> Contamination in the tank.
>>>> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>>>> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>>>> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>>>> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>>>> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>>>> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out from
the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing the water
above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
>>>> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol - Do
the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you will reduce
the chances of water.
>>>> Barry
>>>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <<mailto:jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the 100hp
riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying much lately.
I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had been in
A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel, not water,
but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was clear, probably
a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of seperation? I did go
ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking about it, what would the list's
ideas be. Very glad it kept running, though an both tanks the fuel seemed
to come out of only one tank. No external fuel pump. Gravity feed.
>>>>
>>>> =========
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ist" target="_blank"><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>>>
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>
>>>> _blank"><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>>>
>>>> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> href="<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List"><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>>
>>>
>>> href="<http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com"><http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>>
>>> href="<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution"><http://www.matronics.com/c>http://www.matronics.com/c
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ======
>>> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
>>> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
>>> <http://www.pctools.com>http://www.pctools.com
>>> ======
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==================================
>>> st"><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>> ==================================
>>> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==================================
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==================================
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I find it odd that some airports have this policy since most plane owners "s
tore" over 25 gallons of fuel in the tanks of the plane. What's the differen
ce?
On May 25, 2011, at 12:41 PM, "ray atkinson" <raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
> I,ve burned year old gas and gas oil mix from my friends plane that was ol
d and never missed a beat.I know its not not great as fuel gut it works pret
ty good really. Phase separation with a gallon and a half of water? In my si
tuation its impractical to wash gas.I am not allowed to store gas in my hang
er much less siphon it and transfer it and all this other stuff that will ev
entually lead to a spill minor or otherwise.Plane owners in adjoining hanger
don,t like the smell of gas fumes and my contract specifically forbids this
.If you do it somewhere else and then transport?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick Thomason
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> Because they don't have fiberglass fuel tanks!
>
> Leave a half tank of gasohol in your car for 2 months and then see how wel
l it runs.
>
> Rick
>
> On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble free o
n this stuff??
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Pete Christensen
>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>>
>> What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a small
amount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting. I drain m
y gascolator before and after each flight. The gascolator bowl has started t
o rust and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with Kreem. I discontinu
ed using washed gas over the winter since my plane sat more. I may try wash
ing my gas twice to see if this stops the settlement.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>> On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>>>
>>> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already b
roken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane for an extend
ed period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said, it will absorb s
ome of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets closer to a phas
e separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tanks if they a
re anything but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat your fuel sy
stem including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to leave it in th
e plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when you have a phase
separation happening... you will get something just over 10% of the quanti
ty of fuel in your tank showing up as water. So if you have left say 15 gal
of fuel in your plane then if it separates you will get 1.5 gallons of wate
r/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or injectors. A little g
ood news is if you are using a paper filter it will try to block the water f
rom passing... unfortunately there won=99t be anything else but water
to pass. The milky substance you did find is probably something the ethano
l started to eat.
>>> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel
by adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon the clear e
thanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form on t
he bottom of the container. Be careful though, to let the gas sit for about
twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning the gas. A
nd always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either of those p
roducts will pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol from your fu
el then it won=99t hurt to leave the gas in your plane between flights
for periods of up to I guess a month or so.
>>> Noel
>>> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxen
gines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
>>> Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
>>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>>> Joe:
>>> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>>> Contamination in the tank.
>>> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>>> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>>> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>>> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>>> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>>> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out
from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing the w
ater above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
>>> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol - D
o the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you will
reduce the chances of water.
>>> Barry
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell@hotmai
l.com> wrote:
>>> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the 1
00hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying much l
ately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had bee
n in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel, no
t water, but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was clea
r, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of seperation
? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking about it, wha
t would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, though an both tank
s the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external fuel pump. Gra
vity feed.
>>>
>>> =========
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-L
ist
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ======
>> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
>> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
>> http://www.pctools.com
>> ======
>>
>>
>> =========
>> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> =========
>> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =========
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>> =========
>>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
>
> ======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
> http://www.pctools.com
> ======
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I have seen two test reports from the companies that make these fuel washing systems.
They both showed me reports starting with 91 and came out with 87. No matter
what the octane (88.7 or 87) it's too low for the 912ULS and it still causes
corrosion in either engine. The ethanol is not an issue at all for the Rotax
912 series engine. You just need to make sure you use the proper fuel hoses
and know what your fuel tank is made out of. I have seen several people take
their tanks and slosh them with Kreem Weiss and just use the ethanol since it
is impervious to the ethanol. The fuel storage issue in hangars is a fire code
issue and airports don't normally buck that system as it would leave them liable.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=341050#341050
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReguEsLfKcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikyc0xOAjbw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnQLfJrFc_c
some fun with ethanol and water after testing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJZOY8z_9Tk
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
http://www.kitfoxflyer.com/
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=341052#341052
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 9:00 PM, dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReguEsLfKcI
>
This guy runs a test like a drunk sailor runs from the SP.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikyc0xOAjbw
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnQLfJrFc_c
>
> some fun with ethanol and water after testing
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJZOY8z_9Tk
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> http://www.kitfoxflyer.com/
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
> http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=341052#341052
>
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hello Pete:
I went to the web site, could not find anythng about washing the gas or
octain ratings.
Could you send the exact link that will get me to where you read the
information.
Barry
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Pete Christensen <
pchristensen10@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> According to Portablefuelsystems.com before washing 91.3 octane after
> washing 88.7.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 5/25/2011 5:28 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
> Hi Roger:
>
> How did you get the octane rating of 87 after washing 91?
>
> Alcohol does add a small amount of octane but I really doubt if it is 4
> points.
>
> Do you know anyone that can run octane tests?
>
> I have a couple of tests I want to get done.
>
> As for the pitting of the fuel bowl... That is an easy cure. Send it out
> and get it Hard Coat Anodized to a thickness of 0.0025". It should cost
> about $20 to $50 tops. When talking to the plating house you - should -
> know what kind of aluminum it is made from. OR at least if it is cast or
> machined from a billet. Also be nice to the house and ask if they could
> just run it with a bigger batch - NO SPECIAL HANDLING REQUIRED. This keeps
> price down.
>
> Barry
> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> If you use washed 91 oct it will be 87 when your done. If you have a
>> 912ULS (100 hp) that won't work. If you start with 87 oct it isn't fit for
>> either 912. You will eventually end up replacing the carb bowls at $100 a
>> piece because the very small amount of moisture still in the fuel will pit
>> the aluminum bowl. I have had to replace a few of these already for the long
>> term hard core washers.
>>
>> --------
>> Roger Lee
>> Tucson, Az.
>> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
>> Rotax Repair Center
>> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
>> Cell 520-349-7056
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340993#340993
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
It isn't the storage of fuel that's the problem, it's the transfer from
jerry cans to airplane. I published this story in our EAA chapter's
newsletter a couple of years ago.
I had a rather exciting experience that occurred while refueling my RV-6A.
I
have a Mazda 13B as a power plant using auto fuel. Not having auto fuel at
the airport, I have been transporting it in a 5 gallon plastic container
(approved for auto fuel) and using a funnel to pour the gasoline into the
wing tank.
Sensitive to the risks of static electricity, I always grounded (I know - I
question whether you can truly "ground" a plastic container) the plastic
container against the airframe prior to pouring in the gasoline. I have
refuel the aircraft many times before using this method (as well numerous
lawn mowers, weed wackers, etc). I had hauled the aircraft out of the hanga
r
and had it sitting in the middle of the tarmac in front of the hanger and
had commenced to refuel.
Well, this time it happened. As I was approximately half-way through pourin
g
from the five gallon container into the funnel (the plastic funnel is a ver
y
wide mouth with a filter cartridge in its center- used to quickly fill race
cars) the fireworks started. The gasoline ignited with a "Swoosh" and I
found myself holding a flaming funnel as well as the five gallon container
which had flames coming from its opening.
Needless to say, things got very exciting and busy in a hurry. As I reacted
to the flames going off, I swung the container away, which was in my right
hand, removed the flaming funnel from the wing tank opening with my left
hand. In the process, I sloshed some flaming gasoline onto the wing and
tarmac. And flames were now also coming from the opening of the wing tank.
So by quick count, I had flames coming out of the wing tank, some burning o
n
the wing, a patch burning on the tarmac, a flaming funnel as well as the 5
gallon container on fire. Did I say things got exciting in a hurry?
I immediately move the flaming container about 12-15 feet away from the
aircraft and set it down, quickly moved the flaming funnel about 5 feet fro
m
the container and laid it down.. Immediately dashed to the plane and placed
the fuel cap into the tank opening stuffing out that fire, smothered the
fire on the wing, ran back to the container and placed its lid on the
flaming opening smothering that fire, moved the still flaming funnel furthe
r
away, smothered the fire on the tarmac and then returned to smother the
funnel.
Finally, all fires are extinguished and I take time for a breath. Wasn't
timing myself as I was somewhat distracted at the moment, but believe the
entire event from ignition to all flames out was around 30-45 seconds (coul
d
be wrong about the time, but not by much). Old men can move quickly if
motivated properly.
Yes, I did have a fire extinguisher, but had neglected to take it out of th
e
car and when I ran to the car and reached under the drivers seat=97IT was N
OT
there (Later found it under the passengers seat). I also have a small Halon
fire extinguisher mounted between the seats of aircraft - but, again
distance and flames were between it and me.
Won't make that mistake again. Also, I will never use a plastic container
again, but will use a metal one with a little cable attached that I can
ground to the aircraft. I will also not use a plastic funnel, but will
probably use one of the rotary pumps with hose and nozzle grounded.
So, the good news is no damage to me or the aircraft and a much wiser me.
While it had not ever happened before, I quickly found out that one time is
one time too many.
Rick Girard
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Rick Thomason <rickyd54@gmail.com> wrote:
> I find it odd that some airports have this policy since most plane owners
> "store" over 25 gallons of fuel in the tanks of the plane. What's the
> difference?
>
> On May 25, 2011, at 12:41 PM, "ray atkinson" <raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I,ve burned year old gas and gas oil mix from my friends plane that was o
ld
> and never missed a beat.I know its not not great as fuel gut it works pre
tty
> good really. Phase separation with a gallon and a half of water? In my
> situation its impractical to wash gas.I am not allowed to store gas in my
> hanger much less siphon it and transfer it and all this other stuff that
> will eventually lead to a spill minor or otherwise.Plane owners in adjoin
ing
> hanger don,t like the smell of gas fumes and my contract specifically
> forbids this.If you do it somewhere else and then transport?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Thomason <rickyd54@gmail.com>
> *To:* <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:24 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> Because they don't have fiberglass fuel tanks!
>
> Leave a half tank of gasohol in your car for 2 months and then see how we
ll
> it runs.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" < <raybot@comcast.net>
> raybot@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble fre
e
> on this stuff??
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Pete Christensen <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
> *To:* <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com> <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:37 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a small
> amount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is sitting. I drai
n
> my gascolator before and after each flight. The gascolator bowl has star
ted
> to rust and I plan to clean it up and coat the bowl with Kreem. I
> discontinued using washed gas over the winter since my plane sat more. I
> may try washing my gas twice to see if this stops the settlement.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> If you really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have already
> broken the first cardinal rule. Never leave fuel in your plane for an
> extended period of time. If you have high humidity, as you said, it wil
l
> absorb some of the moisture and when that happens it, not only gets close
r
> to a phase separation but becomes very corrosive.... It may eat your tan
ks
> if they are anything but stainless steel. It will probably start to eat
> your fuel system including the carb body and the fuel lines. Best not to
> leave it in the plane and only fly on fresh fuel. BTW you will know when
> you have a phase separation happening... you will get something just ove
r
> 10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank showing up as water. So if you
> have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane then if it separates you will
get
> 1.5 gallons of water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or
> injectors. A little good news is if you are using a paper filter it will
> try to block the water from passing... unfortunately there won=92t be
> anything else but water to pass. The milky substance you did find is
> probably something the ethanol started to eat.
>
> The second point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your fuel
by
> adding enough water to cause a phase separation. Then siphon the clear
> ethanol free gas off the top of the water ethanol solution that will form
on
> the bottom of the container. Be careful though, to let the gas sit for
> about twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before siphoning the
> gas. And always use a good chamois or felt to strain your gas... either
of
> those products will pass gas but not water. If you remove the ethanol fr
om
> your fuel then it won=92t hurt to leave the gas in your plane between fli
ghts
> for periods of up to I *guess* a month or so.
>
> Noel
>
> *From:* <owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com><owner-rotaxengin
es-list-server@matronics.com>
> owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [<owner-rotaxengines-list-se
rver@matronics.com><owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com>
> mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com<owner-rotaxengines-li
st-server@matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE
>
> *Sent:* February 7, 2011 2:29 PM
> *To:* <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com> <rotaxengines-list@matronics..com
>
> rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: ethanol
>
> Joe:
>
> There are a few things that would cause your fuel to go cloudy:
>
> Contamination in the tank.
>
> Hygroscopic action of the alcohol
>
> Temperature (low) causing the water to freeze
>
> Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I would also consider:
>
> The drain plugs as being contaminated due to oxidation
>
> How clean was the inspection tube that you were using
>
> When you say 'separation', are you referring to the water separating out
> from the fuel due to saturation? If yes, then YES you could be seeing th
e
> water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.
>
> A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about. But why use gas with ethanol -
> Do the separation procedure that has been discussed here on line and you
> will reduce the chances of water.
>
> Barry
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe and Joan Kimbell <<jnjkimbell@hotmai
l.com><jnjkimbell@hotmail.com>
> jnjkimbell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Appreciate some info concerning fuel seperation. I have CH701 with the
> 100hp riotax. I live in a high humedity area and have not been flying mu
ch
> lately. I use 10% ethanol fuel and last time I started to fly (fuel had
> been in A/C over a month) and checked the lowest drain, I found cloudy fu
el,
> not water, but did not lood good. I continued to drain fuel until it was
> clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy fuel on the point of
> seperation? I did go ahead and fly with no problems, but after thinking
> about it, what would the list's ideas be. Very glad it kept running, tho
ugh
> an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only one tank. No external
> fuel pump. Gravity feed.
>
> =========
> >
> >
> >
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *ist" target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines
-List> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List> <http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Ro
taxEngines-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * <http://forums.matronics.com> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forum
s.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contr
ibution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> href=" <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Lis
t
>
> href=" <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com"> <http
://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href=" <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/
contribution"> <http://www.matronics.com/c>http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
>
> ======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
> <http://www.pctools.com/?cclick=EmailFooterClean_51><http://www.pctools
.com>
> http://www.pctools.com
> ======
>
> *
>
>
> =========
> st"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>
> ==========ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.
com
> ==========http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http
://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =========
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
>
> ======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17590)
> <http://www.pctools.com/?cclick=EmailFooterClean_51>http://www.pctools.
com
> ======
>
> *
>
>
> ========================
> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>
> ========================
===========ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics
.com
> ========================
===========http://www.matronics.com/contribution">htt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ========================
>
> *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|