Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:58 AM - Re: Re Oil - Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 06:51 AM - Re: Re Oil - Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 (Roger Lee)
3. 07:23 AM - Re: Oil (lucien)
4. 08:35 AM - Re: Re Oil - Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 (lucien)
5. 11:39 AM - Engine mount bolt torques (Victor Menkal)
6. 01:44 PM - Re: Engine mount bolt torques (Dave)
7. 02:25 PM - Re: Oil (Roger Lee)
8. 02:28 PM - Re: Re Oil - Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 (Roger Lee)
9. 02:45 PM - OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE (John Fasching)
10. 03:00 PM - Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE (Roger Lee)
11. 03:24 PM - Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE (lucien)
12. 04:18 PM - Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE (Roger Lee)
13. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE (Thom Riddle)
14. 06:49 PM - Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE (dashwood)
15. 07:10 PM - Re: Oil (dashwood)
16. 07:36 PM - Re: Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE (mark donahue)
17. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE (Arthur Glaser)
18. 08:27 PM - Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE (Roger Lee)
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| Subject: | Re: Re Oil - Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 |
Roger,
I knew this subject would be a hornets nest ! It is good banter though
and some very good info. I hope you will keep us posted on Shell's update. I
would like to know when and if the new formulation is available. Until then
I may change the oil sooner on my engine rather than later as the ZDDP
molecules sacrificed will be in a smaller number.
John,
Thanks for your input as you saved me the calculations of how much ZDDP
to add,IF I do.
Dick Maddux
912UL
Milton,Fl
PS: Roger we did our first condition inspection on a CT with 300 hrs. This
was a result of the ad I put in the CT newsletter.The owner was thrilled
with the results. He didn't have to take it to Lockwood,saved a pile of money
and stated later the airplane runs better now than it ever has ! Made me
feel good. We found many items that were not properly attended to during
earlier inspections. Thanks for all your input !
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Re Oil - Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 |
Hi Dick,
I too knew this was a loaded topic, but couldn't see any reason to hold back. I
heard that the reformulation won't take place until 2012. I truly don't know
about that part and have to relay on higher up source that are more attached to
the real issue.
I'm not making anyone change their oil brand or telling anyone they must change.
I just got the info and posted it. It's up to each person to make a choice.
If I learned something from high up that may harm our plane and didn't post it
I would feel negligent, but the responsibility to accept, reject, research or
act is up to each person.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350423#350423
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Roger Lee wrote:
> For the guys that come to me I will not recommend Aero Shell any longer until
it is reformulated. For the guys that need a semi synthetic I will recommend
Golden Spectro 4 motorcycle oil (10-40W or 20-50W) It has been around for a long
time, rated high and has been tested in high rpm, high performance motorcycles
for many years.
Wait, run that by me again - are you talking about the Aeroshell Sport 4 oil? What's
wrong with it and why shouldn't we be using it?
Thanks sir,
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350429#350429
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| Subject: | Re: Re Oil - Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 |
Roger Lee wrote:
> Hi Dick,
>
> I too knew this was a loaded topic so I put on an extra layer of skin, but couldn't
see any reason to hold back. I heard that the reformulation won't take
place until 2012. I truly don't know about that part and have to relay on higher
up source that are more attached to the real issue.
>
> I'm not making anyone change their oil brand or telling anyone they must change.
I just got the info and posted it. It's up to each person to make a choice.
If I learned something from high up that may harm our plane and didn't post
it I would feel negligent, but the responsibility to accept, reject, research
or act is up to each person.
Ok, just found this thread too. The issue seems to be an additive called ZDDP?
In any case, I'm not bent out of shape about this right now. I'm not flying that
much and my oil change intervals are therefore turning out to be pretty short
(about 25 hours). My mag plug is coming out clean each time (tho admittedly
with a short oil change interval) so nothing is eating itself up inside the engine
that I can see.
OTOH, I'd still rather use the most suitable oil available. Perhaps the Golden
Spectro? Of course, you can guarantee that, if it's the right oil, it won't be
available in my area ;).
I havn't heard anything about the Aeroshell being reformulated or there being a
problem with it, so I'm still watching this with interest - any further info?
Thanks,
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350447#350447
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| Subject: | Engine mount bolt torques |
Can anyone familiar with the Rotax Lord mounts advise the correct torque or procedure
for the A6 bolts which go through the mounts. My FWF drawings indicate
A6 bolts with crown nuts and cotter pins. Do you still torque to A6 bolt specs
at 100 in-lb or just snug up nut until the cotter pin can be advanced through
nut and bolt? As well, do the actual M10 engine mount bolts require anything
more than blue locktite and torque to spec - i.e. no lock washers?
Appreciate the help as my FWF kit and engine installation directions both seem
to miss this area.
Thanx Vic
CH750
Whitehorse Yukon
Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine mount bolt torques |
Vic,
Torque to A6 bolt specs at 100 in-lb, then back off until the cotter pin
can
be advanced through nut and bolt...The steel sleeve will hold the
correct
distance to keep from crushing the mount.
M10 engine mount...I used loctite and cross- drilled the heads for
safety
wires. If they fall out so does your engine.
Dave 912 ULS 601HD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Victor
Menkal
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:36 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Engine mount bolt torques
Can anyone familiar with the Rotax Lord mounts advise the correct torque
or
procedure for the A6 bolts which go through the mounts. My FWF
drawings
indicate A6 bolts with crown nuts and cotter pins. Do you still torque
to
A6 bolt specs at 100 in-lb or just snug up nut until the cotter pin can
be
advanced through nut and bolt? As well, do the actual M10 engine
mount
bolts require anything more than blue locktite and torque to spec - i.e.
no
lock washers? Appreciate the help as my FWF kit and engine
installation
directions both seem to miss this area.
Thanx Vic
CH750
Whitehorse Yukon
Message 7
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Howdy Lucien,
Read the first post in this thread. No one is saying don't use Aero Shell Sport
Plus 4, it is your choice, but there is some info you may want to consider. It
is a too light on ZDDP. Read above and it will explain. Dick and John may have
a better mouse trap if you do decide to use it.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350483#350483
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| Subject: | Re: Re Oil - Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 |
Hi Lucien,
I doubt you will see anyone admit to anything in writing about this other than
right here and maybe another forum or two.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350484#350484
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| Subject: | OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE |
I earlier posted and said 1.479 oz/liter tof ZDDP to bring Aeroshell
Sport Plus 4 up to about 1,500 PPM of ZDDP. Recall, I said IF my
calculations were correct; they were not. Use 1/4 oz per liter...more
doesn't hurt and it isn't expensive either, but a 3-liter oil change
only needs 3/4 oz of ZDDP that will take the Aeroshall from about 800ppm
up to 1,500ppm.
Sorry about my earlier error (and I was a math major too...darn.)
JohnF
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE |
Well here I am having to correct myself on a post. I had heard from a top person
in Rotax about the lack of ZDDP in Aero Shell Sport Plus 4. You would have thought
they knew. But I just had someone send me this document that actually shows
otherwise. So never let it be said I won't fix my mistakes. Aero Shell according
to an MSDS sheet has 1% -2% of ZDDP. That actually translates to 1000ppm
- 2000ppm. So the bottom line is I was misinformed and now it is corrected
and Aero Shell Sport Plus 4 is good.
I know some of you are tickled you won't need to switch. Now I need to have a chat
with my Rotax source.
Aero Shell MSDS attached for proof.
What a PITA! [Embarassed]
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350490#350490
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sport_4_oil_374.pdf
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE |
Roger Lee wrote:
> Well here I am having to correct myself on a post. I had heard from a top person
in Rotax about the lack of ZDDP in Aero Shell Sport Plus 4. You would have
thought they knew. But I just had someone send me this document that actually
shows otherwise. So never let it be said I won't fix my mistakes. Aero Shell
according to an MSDS sheet has 1% -2% of ZDDP. That actually translates to 1000ppm
- 2000ppm. So the bottom line is I was misinformed and now it is corrected
and Aero Shell Sport Plus 4 is good. So enjoy your Aero Shell.
> I know some of you are tickled you won't need to switch. Now I need to have a
chat with my Rotax source.
> Aero Shell MSDS attached for proof.
>
> What a PITA! [Embarassed]
Hey Roger,
Nah, no worries. You're still the Master of the Universe of Rotax in my book ;).
Good to know the aeroshell has enough of this additive anyway. Like I said,
so far I've had the cleanest mag plugs at my oil changes with the aeroshell, tho
it was always fine with the other oils I used. So I'm pretty sure nothing is
chewing itself up in the engine so far. 425 hours and it's still running fine.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350493#350493
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| Subject: | Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE |
Hi Lucien,
Thanks.
I try to be diligent about my post, but I got blindsided on this one. OUCH
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350496#350496
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| Subject: | Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE |
Roger,
I hate to rain on your apology but 1,000 ppm equals 1,000/1,000,000 = 1/10th
of 1% and 2,000ppm = 2/10th of 1%. Looking at it the other way, 1% equals
10,000ppm and 2% equals 20,000ppm. Has this helped confuse the situation?
Thom in Buffalo
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Well here I am having to correct myself on a post. I had heard from a top
> person in Rotax about the lack of ZDDP in Aero Shell Sport Plus 4. You would
> have thought they knew. But I just had someone send me this document that
> actually shows otherwise. So never let it be said I won't fix my mistakes.
> Aero Shell according to an MSDS sheet has 1% -2% of ZDDP. That actually
> translates to 1000ppm - 2000ppm. So the bottom line is I was misinformed and
> now it is corrected and Aero Shell Sport Plus 4 is good.
> I know some of you are tickled you won't need to switch. Now I need to have
> a chat with my Rotax source.
> Aero Shell MSDS attached for proof.
>
> What a PITA! [Embarassed]
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350490#350490
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/sport_4_oil_374.pdf
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE |
glad to hear this. i went looking for zddp additive today. only one guy in three
stores even heard of it a long time ago. even the race shop didn't know where
to get it.. cuz there special oils had it already and didn't need extra.. .
but that oil not on recommended list for rotax.
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 490tt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350507#350507
Message 15
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"quoted"Hi Dashwood,
I read some of your old post. It said Amsoil, but Amsoil makes car oil and motorcycle
oil.
only usedmotorcyclee oil and changedfaithfullyy at 50hrs.
If it was car oil the box would have suffered excessive wear because of the lack
of ZDDP amongst other motorcycle additives.
You said you had wear on the gears which leads me to suspect the wrong oil or poor
slipper clutch torque.
not sure if i have a slipper clutch.. only saw 2 beveled washers which were
badly worn. and the shim was bad too. bearings were not noticeably bad and the
gear wear was not detectable by naked eye.. had a large magnify glass to show
me the spot.
You also said you would get kick back which is caused by two things mainly.
the kick back thread was in responsee to someone else posting about hard starts
and exesive kickback... my comment actually was the only time i had kickback
was on hot shutdown using low grade auto fuel.. premium fuel had no knock
or kickback and i was recommending. exclusive use of premium..
No more kick back as far as the ignition is concerned. If you buy the soft start
modules they do help, but to get the full benefit you need the fly wheel, too
as this is what actually helps adjust the ignition fire point.
knock on aluminumm ... i don't have any problems with starting in any weather
conditions. my engine monitoring system has a cold joint somewhere so if
plane left on a windy field for an hour or so. i can't start anything cus the
monitor will be black... leave switched on for about 5 to 10 min to warm itself
up and it comes to life.. without aux heat in the cabin. a puzzler for a while
till i learned about this time thing.
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 490tt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350513#350513
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE |
Let me see, isn't 1% equal to 10.0000 ppm, or is my math not correct?
Mark Donahue
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:58 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE
--> <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Well here I am having to correct myself on a post. I had heard from a top
person in Rotax about the lack of ZDDP in Aero Shell Sport Plus 4. You would
have thought they knew. But I just had someone send me this document that
actually shows otherwise. So never let it be said I won't fix my mistakes.
Aero Shell according to an MSDS sheet has 1% -2% of ZDDP. That actually
translates to 1000ppm - 2000ppm. So the bottom line is I was misinformed and
now it is corrected and Aero Shell Sport Plus 4 is good.
I know some of you are tickled you won't need to switch. Now I need to have
a chat with my Rotax source.
Aero Shell MSDS attached for proof.
What a PITA! [Embarassed]
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint.
Rated Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350490#350490
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sport_4_oil_374.pdf
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE |
One percent is 1 million divided by 100.- This is 1x10ee6 / 1x10ee2 = 1
x10ee4.
Therefore 1% is 10,000 ppm.- 1000 ppm is 1/10 percent.
--- On Wed, 8/24/11, mark donahue <markdonahue@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: mark donahue <markdonahue@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE
ink.net>
Let me see, isn't 1% equal to 10.0000 ppm, or is my math not correct?
Mark Donahue
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Le
e
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:58 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE
--> <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Well here I am having to correct myself on a post. I had heard from a top
person in Rotax about the lack of ZDDP in Aero Shell Sport Plus 4. You woul
d
have thought they knew. But I just had someone send me this document that
actually shows otherwise. So never let it be said I won't fix my mistakes.
Aero Shell according to an MSDS sheet has 1% -2% of ZDDP. That actually
translates to 1000ppm - 2000ppm. So the bottom line is I was misinformed an
d
now it is corrected and Aero Shell Sport Plus 4 is good.
I know some of you are tickled you won't need to switch. Now I need to have
a chat with my Rotax source.
Aero Shell MSDS attached for proof.
What a PITA!- [Embarassed]
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint
.
Rated Home 520-574-1080- TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350490#350490
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sport_4_oil_374.pdf
le, List Admin.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: OIL ZDDP Additive amount UPDATE |
I think they might have meant to say .1% and .2%.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350518#350518
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