Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:38 AM - Two stroke oil (Dennis Thate)
2. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: spark plug adhesive (FLYaDIVE)
3. 01:45 PM - Re: spark plug adhesive (Alan Carter)
4. 03:37 PM - Re: Re: spark plug adhesive (FLYaDIVE)
5. 03:41 PM - Rotax 914 Oil Change (Alan Carter)
6. 03:58 PM - Re: spark plug adhesive (Alan Carter)
7. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: spark plug adhesive (Bob Comperini)
8. 04:16 PM - Re: spark plug adhesive (Alan Carter)
9. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: spark plug adhesive (Pete Christensen)
10. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: spark plug adhesive (FLYaDIVE)
11. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: spark plug adhesive (Dave)
12. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: spark plug adhesive (Gilles Thesee)
Message 1
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Due to the high cost of shipping and hazardous materials charges of AV-2 California
Power Systems two stroke oil which has always been used in my 503 Rotax,
I now want to switch to another alternative product.
I have a local snowmobile dealer who sells Ski-Doo/Rotax oil.
What is the correct specs for aircraft use?
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382506#382506
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
Very interesting Roger;
Why would there be a difference in anti-seize requirements between two
stroke and four stroke?
Are there different torque requirements for the same size plug due to with
& without anti-seize?
Barry
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Your two stroke plugs should be torqued cold and nothing on the threads.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382472#382472
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
Hi All.
I am not sure what you mean by anti-seize , as the only past i am aware of is the
Heat Transfer Past applied to the threads of the sparking plugs to help keep
the plugs cool, the same principle is used on computers when fitting a CPU to
the motherboard again to transfer heat.
This past is recommended to be used by Rotax.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382526#382526
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
Hi Allen:
That stuff applied to the threads of the spark plugs is ANTI-SEIZE. It has
nothing to do with heat transfer. At least not the way you are thinking of
it, it is not a Heat Sink Compound. Heat Sink Compounds are Silicone
Based. The heat transfer stuff should NOT be used as anti-seize.
Anti-Seize has two purposes:
1 - To prevent parts from 'seizing' together because of:
a> Dissimilar materials
b> Rust/Corrosion
c> Fretting
d> High Temperature applications
In many engines there are three materials all in conjugation right at the
spark plugs:
i> Aluminum
ii> Stainless Steel
iii> Steel
These materials have difficulties when living in the same environment.
2 - The second purpose is a function of the first... To make the parts EASY
to be removed.
There are three basic compounds used in Anti-Seize:
1 - Copper Based
2 - Silver Based
3 - Graphite and/or Molybdenum Sulfide Based
The major difference between them are the Working Temperature Ranges. Some
are also used because they do not off gas.
Hope this helps in you understanding of Anti-Seize.
Barry
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>wrote:
> alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
> Hi All.
> I am not sure what you mean by anti-seize , as the only past i am aware of
> is the Heat Transfer Past applied to the threads of the sparking plugs to
> help keep the plugs cool, the same principle is used on computers when
> fitting a CPU to the motherboard again to transfer heat.
> This past is recommended to be used by Rotax.
>
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382526#382526
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Rotax 914 Oil Change |
Hello All,
I plan to do an oil change, this is my first attempt so any comment you may have,
I have made up this little check list for my own benefit.
0. Run engine and warm up oil.
1. Turn prop and get the Rotax gurgle to return oil to tank , Check level before
and after gurgle.
2. Unlock wire and Remove plug to Drain the Oil , Check the plug for particles,
(as soon as the Oil Stops a running flow re plug)
3. Refit Plug with a new crush washer gasket making sure the line in the washer
is towards the head of the plug.
4 Lock wire up and check around all OK.
5. Refill with Fresh Oil to top level on dip stick, this completes the oil change
and prevents any further system drain .
Now the Oil Filter needs to be changed .
6. Remove Filter, (check for particles later by cutting open the filter with oil
cutting tool) ,
7. Fill new oil filter with oil and refit, to hand tight, paint check mark when
tight. (some oil may spill over when re fitting as it contains new oil)
This completes the new Oil Filter Fitting.
8.Turn the engine over with the Prop about 20 turns. Recheck levels and leaks.
9. Start and run engine, shut down engine and recheck Levels and leaks.
The Oil i have is Skydrive Aerolube 10W40 Semi Synthetic , I ordered 12 litres
at the time, as i plan to change oil every 50 hours.
not sure if this is the best oil, but understand it is approved by Rotax.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382545#382545
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
Hello Barry.
Sounds like you know your Anti seize,
But what's this, its recommended by Rotax on 4 stroke engines especially the 914
to spread the heat load.
Product ID: HTC
4 STROKE HEAT TRANSFER COMPOUND Details
1 ml is enough for 1 set of 8 spark plugs.
http://www.skydrive.co.uk/products.asp?cat=51
Can any body tell me why the 914 plugs are 9.78
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382549#382549
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
>
>Why would there be a difference in anti-seize requirements between two stroke
and four stroke?
There is no mention of using anti-seize on the 4 stroke engines either. As someone
else pointed out, the 900 series calls for heat transfer paste, but no anti-seize.
The 2-stroke manuals also do not call for anything.
--
Bob Comperini
e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com
WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
Thank you Bob.
That,s plane enough.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382552#382552
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
Rotax 912/914 engines require heat sink compound on the plug threads to tran
sfer heat from the plug to the head.
Pete
On Sep 6, 2012, at 5:37 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Allen:
>
> That stuff applied to the threads of the spark plugs is ANTI-SEIZE. It ha
s nothing to do with heat transfer. At least not the way you are thinking o
f it, it is not a Heat Sink Compound. Heat Sink Compounds are Silicone Bas
ed. The heat transfer stuff should NOT be used as anti-seize.
> Anti-Seize has two purposes:
> 1 - To prevent parts from 'seizing' together because of:
> a> Dissimilar materials
> b> Rust/Corrosion
> c> Fretting
> d> High Temperature applications
> In many engines there are three materials all in conjugation right at the s
park plugs:
> i> Aluminum
> ii> Stainless Steel
> iii> Steel
> These materials have difficulties when living in the same environment.
>
> 2 - The second purpose is a function of the first... To make the parts EAS
Y to be removed.
>
> There are three basic compounds used in Anti-Seize:
> 1 - Copper Based
> 2 - Silver Based
> 3 - Graphite and/or Molybdenum Sulfide Based
>
> The major difference between them are the Working Temperature Ranges. Som
e are also used because they do not off gas.
>
> Hope this helps in you understanding of Anti-Seize.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wro
te:
el.net>
>
> Hi All.
> I am not sure what you mean by anti-seize , as the only past i am aware of
is the Heat Transfer Past applied to the threads of the sparking plugs to h
elp keep the plugs cool, the same principle is used on computers when fittin
g a CPU to the motherboard again to transfer heat.
> This past is recommended to be used by Rotax.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382526#382526
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
Alan:
It is very simple. They did not do their homework.
As I mentioned there are different anti-seizes for different heat ranges.
Some do contain metals and both copper and silver will transfer heat
faster than steel or stainless steel. BUT! To take that little bit of
information of heat transfer and call it a Heat Sink Compound is
only Advertising Bunk.
Think of it this way... What would transfer heat better:
a> A solid hunk of steel without any gaps or dissimilarities in molecular
construction or
b> Two pieces of dissimilar metals with gaps between them, gaps that are
being held together only by a tension force (screwed together)(spark plugs)
?
Obviously the solid would do better in heat transfer.
And if heat sink was so important, why doesn't the two cycle engine use
ANYTHING on the spark plugs? Which engine produces more heat, four cycle
or two cycle?
A: [Two cycle]
And if this 'advertised' heat sink compound did anything why isn't the heat
range changed on the spark plug?
Ya can't mess with physics but you sure can mess with the uninformed
consumer's head. Just look at women's make up and wrinkle commercials.
And men are no better. Which Gas is best, which Oil is best, which Tires
are best... Oh, don't put air in your tires use Nitrogen. Use Thin
Silicone baffle seals, they are more flexible... NO! Use Thick Silicone
baffle seals they are stiffer, they put more force against the sealing
surface. Want more? I can write a book on it. And I would, IF I knew it
would sell.
Alan & Gaggle - Always remember the BEST areas of controversy are those
things that CANNOT be proven or disproved beyond ANY shadow of doubt.
Things like HP, SPEED and HEAT.
Stick with known physics and leave the hype to Make Up Commercials.
AND - PLEASE - Please don't contribute to the spread of B.S. at the speed
of an electron.
Barry
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>wrote
:
> alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
> Hello Barry.
> Sounds like you know your Anti seize,
> But what's this, its recommended by Rotax on 4 stroke engines especially
> the 914 to spread the heat load.
>
> Product ID: HTC
> 4 STROKE HEAT TRANSFER COMPOUND Details
>
>
> 1 ml is enough for 1 set of 8 spark plugs.
>
>
> http://www.skydrive.co.uk/products.asp?cat=51
>
> Can any body tell me why the 914 plugs are =A39.78
>
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382549#382549
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
No! It is actually heat transfer paste. The same as used on computer
processor chips, but to sink heat to the cylinder heads and it only needs
to be on the last 5 threads (aprox.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: spark plug adhesive
Hi Allen:
That stuff applied to the threads of the spark plugs is ANTI-SEIZE. It has
nothing to do with heat transfer. At least not the way you are thinking of
it, it is not a Heat Sink Compound. Heat Sink Compounds are Silicone
Based. The heat transfer stuff should NOT be used as anti-seize.
Anti-Seize has two purposes:
1 - To prevent parts from 'seizing' together because of:
a> Dissimilar materials
b> Rust/Corrosion
c> Fretting
d> High Temperature applications
In many engines there are three materials all in conjugation right at the
spark plugs:
i> Aluminum
ii> Stainless Steel
iii> Steel
These materials have difficulties when living in the same environment.
2 - The second purpose is a function of the first... To make the parts EASY
to be removed.
There are three basic compounds used in Anti-Seize:
1 - Copper Based
2 - Silver Based
3 - Graphite and/or Molybdenum Sulfide Based
The major difference between them are the Working Temperature Ranges. Some
are also used because they do not off gas.
Hope this helps in you understanding of Anti-Seize.
Barry
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
wrote:
<alancarteresq@onetel.net>
Hi All.
I am not sure what you mean by anti-seize , as the only past i am aware of
is the Heat Transfer Past applied to the threads of the sparking plugs to
help keep the plugs cool, the same principle is used on computers when
fitting a CPU to the motherboard again to transfer heat.
This past is recommended to be used by Rotax.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382526#382526
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: spark plug adhesive |
FLYaDIVE a crit :
>
> And if heat sink was so important, why doesn't the two cycle engine
> use ANYTHING on the spark plugs? Which engine produces more heat,
> four cycle or two cycle?
> A: [Two cycle]
>
> And if this 'advertised' heat sink compound did anything why isn't the
> heat range changed on the spark plug?
Barry and all,
Good point.
This strange recommendation from Rotax is not supported by simple physics :
Only 20/30% of spark plug total heat rejection is by way of the thread,
so even if a little paste did improve heat transfer by say, 20 %, the
plug heat rejection would improve only by 5 to 6 %...
What DOES work on the other hand, is providing adequate head cooling : a
properly cooled head is the best heat sink one may dream of to have
cooler plugs.
BTW, what is proposed as heat sink compound by a well known European
importer, is actually *copper antiseize* and yet no adverse effect on
the thousands of engines flying in this area.
So real heat sink might not be so necessary after all...
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
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