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1. 03:57 PM - Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS (Jim Clayton)
2. 04:33 PM - Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS (Gilles Thesee)
3. 08:40 PM - Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS (dashwood)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS |
Hi Barry,=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AThanks for the confirmation regarding a possibly
dry engine=0Abeing rotated to introduce oil.=C2- Your pvc=0Apre-oiler is
really cool!=C2- Thanks for the=0Apics.=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AI purchased the
engine around 2005.=C2- I peeled back the plastic, took a bunch of=0Apic
tures and rewrapped it tightly sealing the plastic and reassembled the crat
e.=C2- The crate lived the next 7 plus years in my=0Aspare bedroom, tempe
rature controlled.=C2-=0AFast forward to last week.=C2- I=0Aopened it a
nd pulled the engine out of the crate.=C2- Close inspection showed the en
gine was still=0Aexternally slightly oily, and the crankcase has remnants o
f the oil used during=0Athe test run at the factory.=C2- All good=0Anews
I think.=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AAfter much consideration I decided to inject oil
into the=0Apressure sender port.=C2- As was confirmed=0Aby this list
=99s experts the oil pump is a positive displacement type (no=0Asurprise
) so I needed to inject oil upstream of the pump if I desire gallery=0Aoil
pressure without turning.=C2- I didn=99t=0Ainject at the pressure r
egulator as suggested cause I didn=99t have ready access=0Ato the met
ric fitting holding the spring, and I wasn=99t sure if I would simply
=0Avent oil directly to the crankcase bypassing the gallery if I took the
=0Aregulator apart.=C2- So I went with the=0Apressure sensor port.=0A=0A
=C2-=0A=0AI removed the pressure sender and fed it oil (semi-syn=0Amotorc
ycle formulation since it will touch the wet clutch in the gearbox) at 40
=0Ato 55psi from a 12 volt pump.=C2- Added a=0Atee in the pipe and 6 feet
of sealed tubing (see pic) to act as a pressure accumulator=0Aso the pump
doesn=99t chatter.=C2- Worked out=0Ato 3 seconds of pump runtime to
12 seconds of resting.=C2- After running all day the pump wasn=99t
even=0Awarm.=C2- I opened the valve covers and saw=0Aoil coming out the
pushrods, confirming the oil gallery is pressurized.=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0ANext
I raised the drain line to trap oil in the engine (see=0Apic), and used it
as a sight glass to predict the level in the crankcase.=C2- The level was
also high enough to submerge=0Athe bottom passage to the gearbox (see pic
of open gearbox from the servicing=0Aclass).=C2- Then I leaned the engine
left=0Aand right, forward and back to submerge the pistons/pins and slosh
oil around=0Ain the gearbox.=C2- Drained the crankcase,=0Aput a couple of
tablespoon of oil into each sparkplug hole.=C2- Finally, after hours of
oil circulation I=0Aturned the engine over, plugs still out.=C2-=0A=0A=0A
=C2-=0A=0ANote I was using a clean bucket for the oil supply.=C2- I see
m to have misplaced my oil tank.=C2- I will look around for it a little l
onger=0Abefore I worry about buying another!=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AI offer this
only for entertainment purposes and don=99t=0Asuggest anyone perform
this procedure without approval from your Rotax=0Adealer.=C2- My engine i
s long out of=0Awarranty and I alone am responsible for the outcome.=C2-
I intend to keep the engine in this oiling regime=0Auntil I am ready to sta
rt it; at which time I will purge the system and confirm=0Alifter status pe
r the Rotax procedure. =0A=0A=C2-=0A=0A-Jim
--- On Sun, 10/28/12, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Pre-oiling 912ULS
Jim:
As they say your idea is Spot On. =C2-The=C2-entire=C2-idea of Pre-Oi
ling is to saturate and cover all the rotating parts PRIOR to rotating the
the engine. =C2-To rotate the engine prior to pre-oiling or during pre-oi
ling is counter productive. =C2-=0A=0A
Since your engine is from 2005 the two questions that come up are:1 - Where
was the engine stored, was it kept in a low humidity area?=0A=0A2 - Was th
e engine 'pickled', that is to say - Oiled with a=C2-preservative=C2-oi
l that does not run off the engine areas?
When it comes to 'pickling' a little research has to be done:=0A=0A1 - Does
Rotax make a storage oil? =C2-If so use it.2 - If Rotax does NOT make a
storage oil, use any storage oil you can obtain. =C2-Remember you are NOT
running on this oil ONLY storing with it. =C2-=0A=0AYes - You do run the
engine for a short time just to coat the insides of the engine BUT, that i
s a SHORT TIME and it is WITHOUT LOADS.
Special Note: =C2-Take a look at Page 8 - 2 Para 8.2=0A=0AIt states that
=C2-preservation=C2-is for only one year and if stored for more than on
e year the=C2-preservation=C2-procedure should be repeated every year.
=C2-Have you been doing that?=0A=0AIf not - Start with that procedure pri
or to Pre-Oiling.Why do i say that? =C2-Only because Pre-Oiling takes car
e of the engine NOT the gearbox gears. =C2-Do everything you can to get t
hose gears wet with oil - SHORT of rotating them - Without oil.=0A=0ASo, ho
w should you Pre-Oil?1 - Take a look at the manual - Page 7-6 Figure 3 .2 -
Notice the Oil Flow Direction. =C2-It goes OUT of the Oil Cooler (item 5
) - Into the Engine - Out of the engine and into the Oil Tank (item 4).=0A
=0A3 - I do not know if the picture I attached will get through. =C2-If i
t does not contact me directly and I will send it directly to you.4 - This
picture is of a Pre-Oiler I made. =C2-It can handle oil pressure up to 15
0 PSI. =C2-YOU pick the oil pressure your engine operates at and Pre-Oil
at that pressure. =C2-=0A=0A5 - Use the engine operating pressure so any
valves will be opened by the pressure and the oil spray will cover the same
areas as during normal operation.6 - Since the engine has an Oil Pressure
Regulator (item 1), you should pressure the pre-oiler higher than operating
pressure and because the pressure drops in the pre-oilier=C2-quickly as
volume of oil drops.=0A=0A7 - Monitor the Oil Pressure Gauge of the plane/e
ngine, since the Oil Pressure Sensor (item 2) is hooked up. =C2-There wil
l probably be only a small deflection since the pre-oilier=C2-is applying
pressure for only a short time.=0A=0A8 - Now, here I have to ask a questio
n. =C2-Does the Oil Pump (item 3) have a reverse flow check valve? =C2-
If YES then you are limited to pre-oilier flow direction.=C2-If NO then -
Use the Pre-Oilier=C2-in BOTH directions - The IN and the OUT.=0A=0A9 -
When I Pre-Oil, it is done with one (1) quart of oil in each direction - Fr
om the Oil Cooler into the Engine and then Into the Engine on the OUTPUT si
de of the Engine. =C2-See note 8. =C2-=0A=0A10 - Now, here you have som
e options: =C2-a> You can leave the Oil Tank (item 4) attached and it wil
l catch any oil that makes it to the exit of the engine. =C2-And remember
to hook up a overflow tube to Vent Tube (item 7). =C2-I really doubt if
this will ever happen, or...=0A=0Ab> Put a Plug on the Engine Exit line/hos
e so it develops a good pressure to spray the oil all around inside the eng
ine.
The Pictures:=0APic #1 is a general overview=C2-Pic #2 shows the fittings
. =C2-One thing you can not see is the inside of the unit. =C2-From the
oil line on the outside is a nylon pick-up tube that goes to the bottom of
the unit.=0AYou will see a Shrader valve on top. =C2-I hook up a 12VDC p
ortable=C2-tire pump. =C2-Pressurize the unit to 125 PSI, you can leave
the tire pump on and running when you open the valve. =C2-
=0AThis system is so easy that I pre-oil anytime the engine sits for a mont
h or more.=0A
Barry
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com> wrote:
m>
=0A=0A=0A
=0AGreetings all:
=0A
=0AI looked in the archives and didn't see an answer so here goes:
=0A
=0AI have a 912ULS, in the crate I bought it in 2005. =C2-I just unwrappe
d it and would like to pressurize the oil system with engine oil since the
engine has been sitting so long and I am very concerned about roating the e
ngine (dry) to get the internal pump to move oil. =C2-I have a 12 volt oi
l pump, return tank and accessories to accomplish this, however I have a qu
estion:
=0A=0A=0A
=0ACan I simply feed the oil pump inlet hose-barb with oil pressure to circ
ulate oil throughout the gallery? =C2-I am concerned the pump will not pa
ss oil if the engine is not turning.
=0A
=0AAlternately I could remove the pressure sender and feed the gallery from
there unless there is some reason not to. =C2-My preference is to feed t
hrough the larger oil pump inlet in the hipe of greater flow through the ga
llery.
=0A=0A=0A
=0AI plan to return the oil by draining the crankcase through the return ho
sebarb and back into the return tank.
=0A
=0AAny thoughts or suggestions to circulate oil through my engine?
=0A
=0AThanks, Jim
=0A
=0AKolb Mark3X
=0A912ULS
=0A80% completed
=0A
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-List
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS |
Jim Clayton a crit :
>
> I offer this only for entertainment purposes and dont suggest anyone
> perform this procedure without approval from your Rotax dealer. My
> engine is long out of warranty and I alone am responsible for the
> outcome. I intend to keep the engine in this oiling regime until I am
> ready to start it; at which time I will purge the system and confirm
> lifter status per the Rotax procedure.
>
>
>
Jim,
In my opinion, you did well, though it might be overkill. Nothing wrong
with having the engine thoroughly oiled before use.
Someone mentioned possible problems with the gearbox : you can't do much
harm to the gears by turning the engine by hand a few turns, even if
they happened to be dry.
Very few jounals in the Rotax, so the main issue migth be moving the
pistons in a dry cylinder. Not sure, but you certainly took care of this
by injecting some oil through the plug holes before turning anything.
Apart from this, no much risk with piston pins etc...
If correctly drained, too much oil will not harm the engine.
FWIW,
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS |
just a thought on a bit off subject.. but looking at the pic of the back side of
the gearbox...
has anyone thought of plugging the oil journal holes in a gearbox... tapping a
plug hole in the top and filling it with 90 gear oil... would solve a lot of
issues with 912 and the oil debates. and the problems with excessive wear.. i
am not sure of effects of slipper clutching.. just talking bout gears only boxes....
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 589tt
It only takes two things to fly, airspeed and money
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