---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/29/12: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:57 PM - Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS (Jim Clayton) 2. 04:33 PM - Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS (Gilles Thesee) 3. 08:40 PM - Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS (dashwood) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:19 PM PST US From: Jim Clayton Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Pre-oiling 912ULS Hi Barry,=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AThanks for the confirmation regarding a possibly dry engine=0Abeing rotated to introduce oil.=C2- Your pvc=0Apre-oiler is really cool!=C2- Thanks for the=0Apics.=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AI purchased the engine around 2005.=C2- I peeled back the plastic, took a bunch of=0Apic tures and rewrapped it tightly sealing the plastic and reassembled the crat e.=C2- The crate lived the next 7 plus years in my=0Aspare bedroom, tempe rature controlled.=C2-=0AFast forward to last week.=C2- I=0Aopened it a nd pulled the engine out of the crate.=C2- Close inspection showed the en gine was still=0Aexternally slightly oily, and the crankcase has remnants o f the oil used during=0Athe test run at the factory.=C2- All good=0Anews I think.=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AAfter much consideration I decided to inject oil into the=0Apressure sender port.=C2- As was confirmed=0Aby this list =99s experts the oil pump is a positive displacement type (no=0Asurprise ) so I needed to inject oil upstream of the pump if I desire gallery=0Aoil pressure without turning.=C2- I didn=99t=0Ainject at the pressure r egulator as suggested cause I didn=99t have ready access=0Ato the met ric fitting holding the spring, and I wasn=99t sure if I would simply =0Avent oil directly to the crankcase bypassing the gallery if I took the =0Aregulator apart.=C2- So I went with the=0Apressure sensor port.=0A=0A =C2-=0A=0AI removed the pressure sender and fed it oil (semi-syn=0Amotorc ycle formulation since it will touch the wet clutch in the gearbox) at 40 =0Ato 55psi from a 12 volt pump.=C2- Added a=0Atee in the pipe and 6 feet of sealed tubing (see pic) to act as a pressure accumulator=0Aso the pump doesn=99t chatter.=C2- Worked out=0Ato 3 seconds of pump runtime to 12 seconds of resting.=C2- After running all day the pump wasn=99t even=0Awarm.=C2- I opened the valve covers and saw=0Aoil coming out the pushrods, confirming the oil gallery is pressurized.=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0ANext I raised the drain line to trap oil in the engine (see=0Apic), and used it as a sight glass to predict the level in the crankcase.=C2- The level was also high enough to submerge=0Athe bottom passage to the gearbox (see pic of open gearbox from the servicing=0Aclass).=C2- Then I leaned the engine left=0Aand right, forward and back to submerge the pistons/pins and slosh oil around=0Ain the gearbox.=C2- Drained the crankcase,=0Aput a couple of tablespoon of oil into each sparkplug hole.=C2- Finally, after hours of oil circulation I=0Aturned the engine over, plugs still out.=C2-=0A=0A=0A =C2-=0A=0ANote I was using a clean bucket for the oil supply.=C2- I see m to have misplaced my oil tank.=C2- I will look around for it a little l onger=0Abefore I worry about buying another!=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0AI offer this only for entertainment purposes and don=99t=0Asuggest anyone perform this procedure without approval from your Rotax=0Adealer.=C2- My engine i s long out of=0Awarranty and I alone am responsible for the outcome.=C2- I intend to keep the engine in this oiling regime=0Auntil I am ready to sta rt it; at which time I will purge the system and confirm=0Alifter status pe r the Rotax procedure. =0A=0A=C2-=0A=0A-Jim --- On Sun, 10/28/12, FLYaDIVE wrote: From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Pre-oiling 912ULS Jim: As they say your idea is Spot On. =C2-The=C2-entire=C2-idea of Pre-Oi ling is to saturate and cover all the rotating parts PRIOR to rotating the the engine. =C2-To rotate the engine prior to pre-oiling or during pre-oi ling is counter productive. =C2-=0A=0A Since your engine is from 2005 the two questions that come up are:1 - Where was the engine stored, was it kept in a low humidity area?=0A=0A2 - Was th e engine 'pickled', that is to say - Oiled with a=C2-preservative=C2-oi l that does not run off the engine areas? When it comes to 'pickling' a little research has to be done:=0A=0A1 - Does Rotax make a storage oil? =C2-If so use it.2 - If Rotax does NOT make a storage oil, use any storage oil you can obtain. =C2-Remember you are NOT running on this oil ONLY storing with it. =C2-=0A=0AYes - You do run the engine for a short time just to coat the insides of the engine BUT, that i s a SHORT TIME and it is WITHOUT LOADS. Special Note: =C2-Take a look at Page 8 - 2 Para 8.2=0A=0AIt states that =C2-preservation=C2-is for only one year and if stored for more than on e year the=C2-preservation=C2-procedure should be repeated every year. =C2-Have you been doing that?=0A=0AIf not - Start with that procedure pri or to Pre-Oiling.Why do i say that? =C2-Only because Pre-Oiling takes car e of the engine NOT the gearbox gears. =C2-Do everything you can to get t hose gears wet with oil - SHORT of rotating them - Without oil.=0A=0ASo, ho w should you Pre-Oil?1 - Take a look at the manual - Page 7-6 Figure 3 .2 - Notice the Oil Flow Direction. =C2-It goes OUT of the Oil Cooler (item 5 ) - Into the Engine - Out of the engine and into the Oil Tank (item 4).=0A =0A3 - I do not know if the picture I attached will get through. =C2-If i t does not contact me directly and I will send it directly to you.4 - This picture is of a Pre-Oiler I made. =C2-It can handle oil pressure up to 15 0 PSI. =C2-YOU pick the oil pressure your engine operates at and Pre-Oil at that pressure. =C2-=0A=0A5 - Use the engine operating pressure so any valves will be opened by the pressure and the oil spray will cover the same areas as during normal operation.6 - Since the engine has an Oil Pressure Regulator (item 1), you should pressure the pre-oiler higher than operating pressure and because the pressure drops in the pre-oilier=C2-quickly as volume of oil drops.=0A=0A7 - Monitor the Oil Pressure Gauge of the plane/e ngine, since the Oil Pressure Sensor (item 2) is hooked up. =C2-There wil l probably be only a small deflection since the pre-oilier=C2-is applying pressure for only a short time.=0A=0A8 - Now, here I have to ask a questio n. =C2-Does the Oil Pump (item 3) have a reverse flow check valve? =C2- If YES then you are limited to pre-oilier flow direction.=C2-If NO then - Use the Pre-Oilier=C2-in BOTH directions - The IN and the OUT.=0A=0A9 - When I Pre-Oil, it is done with one (1) quart of oil in each direction - Fr om the Oil Cooler into the Engine and then Into the Engine on the OUTPUT si de of the Engine. =C2-See note 8. =C2-=0A=0A10 - Now, here you have som e options: =C2-a> You can leave the Oil Tank (item 4) attached and it wil l catch any oil that makes it to the exit of the engine. =C2-And remember to hook up a overflow tube to Vent Tube (item 7). =C2-I really doubt if this will ever happen, or...=0A=0Ab> Put a Plug on the Engine Exit line/hos e so it develops a good pressure to spray the oil all around inside the eng ine. The Pictures:=0APic #1 is a general overview=C2-Pic #2 shows the fittings . =C2-One thing you can not see is the inside of the unit. =C2-From the oil line on the outside is a nylon pick-up tube that goes to the bottom of the unit.=0AYou will see a Shrader valve on top. =C2-I hook up a 12VDC p ortable=C2-tire pump. =C2-Pressurize the unit to 125 PSI, you can leave the tire pump on and running when you open the valve. =C2- =0AThis system is so easy that I pre-oil anytime the engine sits for a mont h or more.=0A Barry On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Jim Clayton wrote: m> =0A=0A=0A =0AGreetings all: =0A =0AI looked in the archives and didn't see an answer so here goes: =0A =0AI have a 912ULS, in the crate I bought it in 2005. =C2-I just unwrappe d it and would like to pressurize the oil system with engine oil since the engine has been sitting so long and I am very concerned about roating the e ngine (dry) to get the internal pump to move oil. =C2-I have a 12 volt oi l pump, return tank and accessories to accomplish this, however I have a qu estion: =0A=0A=0A =0ACan I simply feed the oil pump inlet hose-barb with oil pressure to circ ulate oil throughout the gallery? =C2-I am concerned the pump will not pa ss oil if the engine is not turning. =0A =0AAlternately I could remove the pressure sender and feed the gallery from there unless there is some reason not to. =C2-My preference is to feed t hrough the larger oil pump inlet in the hipe of greater flow through the ga llery. =0A=0A=0A =0AI plan to return the oil by draining the crankcase through the return ho sebarb and back into the return tank. =0A =0AAny thoughts or suggestions to circulate oil through my engine? =0A =0AThanks, Jim =0A =0AKolb Mark3X =0A912ULS =0A80% completed =0A =0A========== =0A-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines -List =0A========== =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com =0A========== =0Ale, List Admin. =0A="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A========== =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:53 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Pre-oiling 912ULS Jim Clayton a crit : > > I offer this only for entertainment purposes and dont suggest anyone > perform this procedure without approval from your Rotax dealer. My > engine is long out of warranty and I alone am responsible for the > outcome. I intend to keep the engine in this oiling regime until I am > ready to start it; at which time I will purge the system and confirm > lifter status per the Rotax procedure. > > > Jim, In my opinion, you did well, though it might be overkill. Nothing wrong with having the engine thoroughly oiled before use. Someone mentioned possible problems with the gearbox : you can't do much harm to the gears by turning the engine by hand a few turns, even if they happened to be dry. Very few jounals in the Rotax, so the main issue migth be moving the pistons in a dry cylinder. Not sure, but you certainly took care of this by injecting some oil through the plug holes before turning anything. Apart from this, no much risk with piston pins etc... If correctly drained, too much oil will not harm the engine. FWIW, Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:22 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS From: "dashwood" just a thought on a bit off subject.. but looking at the pic of the back side of the gearbox... has anyone thought of plugging the oil journal holes in a gearbox... tapping a plug hole in the top and filling it with 90 gear oil... would solve a lot of issues with 912 and the oil debates. and the problems with excessive wear.. i am not sure of effects of slipper clutching.. just talking bout gears only boxes.... -------- Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 589tt It only takes two things to fly, airspeed and money Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386255#386255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.