Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:17 AM - PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:16 PM - Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS (Jim Clayton)
2. 01:32 PM - Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS (FLYaDIVE)
3. 04:51 PM - 912iS paper (Jan de Jong)
4. 05:36 PM - Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS (Jim Clayton)
Message 0
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During |
November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's through solely
through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are
possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are very generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web
sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line.
I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS |
Hi Gerry,
Sorry, I may not have been clear. I am pretty handy in the material sciences,
and do realize (for the purposes of this discussion) metals are not porous :-)
The engine was internally (inside the valve covers), and externally oily, and there
is no evidence anywhere of corrosion or moisture damage. It spent all its
time in my care tightly wrapped in plastic and stored in a temperature controlled
space.
I was using engineering slang to describe my desire to allow the the bearing races/rollers/balls
and the plain bearing journals to flush away the old, possibly
dried manufacturing oils and replace them with fresh Rotax approved oils.
Another goal is to wet, as best I can, the backs of the many oil seals present.
One of the Kolb builders, some years ago, was in my situation, and when the
engine was finally started, it ran great, but all the seals began leaking requiring
replacement within the first few months. My hope is to try and avoid that.
I am considering applying some kind of silicone spray to the external seal lips
to further my goal to save whatever seals I can.
Specifically regarding the large bearings supporting the prop shaft, after studying
my photos of the engine we messed with in the servicing class, I noticed
the bearing cages and possibly some kind of wiper *might* slow the flow of replacement
oil as detailed above in my goals. Clearly these structures are designed
to work best in a running engine with much oil splash. I surmised, if that
was true I could flood the area and allow oil to seep past any obstructing
structures and complete the oil replacement.
As others on the list have correctly suggested this is a good time for a preservative
oil. I chose to use standard approved oil for this engine instead for
two reasons:
--I was concerned the clutch could be affected by a bad choice on my part, and
I didn't want to wait and get possibly ambiguous guidance from Rotax
--The approved standard oil was locally available, and sure to work, however it
would need periodic refreshing, something my oiling rig will address nicely.
My professional engineering experience has taught me the extra effort to prevent
a problem is usually worth the time. Particularly in my case: I have big investment
in brand new engine whose warranty has long since expired. So I cooked
up all these steps to satisfy myself. As I mentioned before, I offer this
purely for its entertainment value and reference. I don't suggest anyone follow
suit.
Thanks, Jim
--- On Wed, 10/31/12, Gerry Visel <gcvisel@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Gerry Visel <gcvisel@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Pre-oiling 912ULS
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2012, 5:34 PM
> --> RotaxEngines-List message
> posted by: Gerry Visel <gcvisel@gmail.com>
>
> Jim,
>
> I've been following your re-oiling saga
> from the first, and really
> can't quite figure out what you are trying to
> accomplish. You preserve
> an engine or other metal part by giving it a coat of oil to
> keep water
> off the metal, to keep it from rusting. Periodic
> re-coating renews this
> protection. I assume you have the preservation spec
> from Rotax?
>
> Extended soaking metal in oil does nothing
> for its long term wear
> characteristics, as the oil does not "soak into" the
> metal. We used to
> use metal containers to hold oil because they are impervious
> to the oil.
>
> If your gears or bearings have rusted, no
> amount of oiling is going
> to remove the rust. Much better to maybe just open it
> up and look to
> see if you actually have rust, and remove it chemically or
> replace the
> parts. Or if parts are seized, remove the dried oil
> with a solvent.
>
> Or am I missing something? (I could
> see maybe soaking a dried out
> seal in the hopes of reviving it, but again, I'd just figure
> on
> replacing them if they leak.)
>
> Gerry Visel
> (ex-gearbox engineer for 30+ years, but now doing high tech
> toilets!)
>
> On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 17:02 -0700, Jim Clayton wrote:
> > Hi Barry/All:
> >
> > Thanks! I am running the pump 30 minutes a day so
> the overkill makes
> > me feel better about storing the engine for so long :-)
>
> >
> > I agree with respect to the gearbox. While I did
> lean the engine
> > forward while the crankcase was full, I am concerned
> about the big
> > bearings on the prop shaft. I was thinking of
> again removing the fuel
> > pump, putting a couple of pints of oil in, and closing
> it up. Then
> > with several helpers turning the engine upside
> down. This would trap
> > oil at the prop-shaft end. Leave it upside down
> for perhaps a couple
> > of hours to marinate two big bearings. Looking at
> the photos I took
> > in the servicing class, I suspect those bearings need a
> bit of splash
> > to keep those two lubed. I figure an hour or so
> marinating maybe soak
> > in enough oil to suffice. Once done I will turn
> it right side up, and
> > allow all the oil to drain.
> >
> > I am several months from mounting the engine on the
> plane, so this
> > system will stay in place awhile. Wish I could
> find the oil tank as
> > the open bucket has to go. I will post separately
> asking if anyone
> > has a spare oil tank (I know...not likely).
> >
> > -Jim
>
>
> RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS |
Jim:
You are right on about what you are saying and the procedure you are
planing to use.
Two suggestions:
1 - On your gaskets - DO NOT tighten any Screws, Nuts or Bolts more than
they already are. To do so could distort the shape of the gasket and
creates a leak. Start from the known you have and run it for a while AND
even if it does leak - LET IT. Let it leak for a while and see if
temperature and hot oil bring back some life to the gaskets.
2 - I understand your idea of using silicone spray on the gaskets - But - I
would run a test first. Take a piece of gasket material. Weigh it and
measure the thickness and if you have the ability the diameter of a punched
out hole such as where a bolt may go through. Then subject it to the
silicone you plan on using. Most silicone's are very close in substance
except for particle size. The big difference is in the mobilization agent.
And what happens when the agent evaporates off. Better to know this
before you address the engine itself.
Best of luck,
Barry
<Jim>
> I am considering applying some kind of silicone spray to the external seal
> lips to further my goal to save whatever seals I can.
>
> Specifically regarding the large bearings supporting the prop shaft, after
> studying my photos of the engine we messed with in the servicing class, I
> noticed the bearing cages and possibly some kind of wiper *might* slow the
> flow of replacement oil as detailed above in my goals. Clearly these
> structures are designed to work best in a running engine with much oil
> splash. I surmised, if that was true I could flood the area and allow oil
> to seep past any obstructing structures and complete the oil replacement.
>
> As others on the list have correctly suggested this is a good time for a
> preservative oil. I chose to use standard approved oil for this engine
> instead for two reasons:
>
> --I was concerned the clutch could be affected by a bad choice on my part,
> and I didn't want to wait and get possibly ambiguous guidance from Rotax
>
> --The approved standard oil was locally available, and sure to work,
> however it would need periodic refreshing, something my oiling rig will
> address nicely.
>
> My professional engineering experience has taught me the extra effort to
> prevent a problem is usually worth the time. Particularly in my case: I
> have big investment in brand new engine whose warranty has long since
> expired. So I cooked up all these steps to satisfy myself. As I mentioned
> before, I offer this purely for its entertainment value and reference. I
> don't suggest anyone follow suit.
>
> Thanks, Jim
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Those interested in the design of the 912iS may want to buy SAE paper nr
2012-32-0049.
By 3 Rotax engineers and recently presented at an SAE conference.
It costs $23 and can only be printed, during 24 hours, not saved.
Some of the figures need to be printed separately to make some very
small print readable (primitive but working procedure: zoom to maximise
on screen, copy screen to clipboard, paste into picture viewer like
Irfanview, crop in picture viewer and print/save).
I found it interesting. A lot of questions were answered, quite a view
remain.
Jan de Jong
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pre-oiling 912ULS |
Great suggestions, Barry. -Thanks! -I will do some testing with the spr
ay first.
In other news -looked up a new oil tank on the Lockwood site....$800 some
thing!! -ok, back to searching my shop.
-Jim
--- On Thu, 11/1/12, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Pre-oiling 912ULS
Jim:
You are right on about what you are saying and the procedure you are planin
g to use.
Two suggestions:1 - On your gaskets - DO NOT tighten any Screws, Nuts or Bo
lts more than they already are. -To do so could-distort-the shape of
the gasket and creates a leak. -Start from the known you have and run it
for a while AND even if it does leak - LET IT. -Let it leak for a while a
nd see if temperature and hot oil bring back some life to the gaskets.=0A2
- I-understand-your idea of using silicone spray on the gaskets - But -
I would run a test first. -Take a piece of gasket material. -Weigh it
and measure the thickness and if you have the ability the diameter of a pun
ched out hole such as where a bolt may go through. -Then subject it to th
e silicone you plan on using. -Most-silicone's-are very close in subs
tance except for particle size. -The big-difference-is in the-mobil
ization-agent. -And what happens when the agent evaporates off. -Bett
er to know this before you address the engine itself.=0A
Best of luck,
Barry
<Jim>
=0AI am considering applying some kind of silicone spray to the external se
al lips to further my goal to save whatever seals I can.
=0A
=0ASpecifically regarding the large bearings supporting the prop shaft, aft
er studying my photos of the engine we messed with in the servicing class,
I noticed the bearing cages and possibly some kind of wiper *might* slow th
e flow of replacement oil as detailed above in my goals. -Clearly these s
tructures are designed to work best in a running engine with much oil splas
h. -I surmised, if that was true I could flood the area and allow oil to
seep past any obstructing structures and complete the oil replacement.
=0A=0A
=0AAs others on the list have correctly suggested this is a good time for a
preservative oil. -I chose to use standard approved oil for this engine
instead for two reasons:
=0A
=0A--I was concerned the clutch could be affected by a bad choice on my par
t, and I didn't want to wait and get possibly ambiguous guidance from Rotax
=0A
=0A--The approved standard oil was locally available, and sure to work, how
ever it would need periodic refreshing, something my oiling rig will addres
s nicely.
=0A
=0AMy professional engineering experience has taught me the extra effort to
prevent a problem is usually worth the time. -Particularly in my case: I
have big investment in brand new engine whose warranty has long since expi
red. -So I cooked up all these steps to satisfy myself. -As I mentioned
before, I offer this purely for its entertainment value and reference. -
I don't suggest anyone follow suit.
=0A=0A
=0AThanks, Jim
======================0A=0A
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|