Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:20 AM - AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations (FLYaDIVE)
2. 06:40 AM - Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations (Arthur Glaser)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations (Arthur Glaser)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations (Robert Borger)
5. 10:08 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Clive Richards)
6. 11:31 AM - EGT Indications (Joe & Jan Connell)
7. 12:25 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Alan Carter)
8. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Robert Borger)
9. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (FLYaDIVE)
10. 01:56 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Clive Richards)
11. 03:07 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Alan Carter)
12. 03:24 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Alan Carter)
13. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Robert Borger)
Message 1
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| Subject: | AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations |
Gang:
I was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK, NJ
NEWSPAPER), Page 21.
Gas Stations being shut down because they are selling AVIATION GAS!!!
Too bad I did not know which station were selling it... I would have loaded
up! Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <-- High Test. Maybe it was in the
REGULAR Pumps at $3.26 a Gallon???
But, the questions have to be asked:
1 - If there is so much control over AvGas <--- So they say as to keep
prices high. Where was the control on the delivery?
2 - Was AvGAs put into uncontrolled MoGas delivery vehicles?
3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles?
4 - Have the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been contaminated with MoGas?
5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEAD is being
burned by surface vehicles? And...
6 - Who picks up the $TAB$ on the destroyed Catalytic Converters. <--- NJ
in all their wisdom has done away with automobile inspection. Except
for EMISSIONS TESTING. So, if your car fails and you don't even know you
had a load of AvGas who pays for the repairs??? AND even if you do know...
WHO PAYS!
No coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up with at this
time.
Maybe you have a few to ask?
Barry
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations |
I believe it was jet fuel.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>=0ATo: grumman-gang <grumman-gang@mai
lman.xmission.com>=0ASent: Thu, December 13, 2012 8:32:50 AM=0ASubject: Rot
axEngines-List: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations=0A=0AGang: =0A=0AI
was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK, NJ =0ANE
WSPAPER), Page 21.=0A=0AGas Stations being shut down because they are selli
ng AVIATION GAS!!!=0A=0AToo bad I did not know which station were selling i
t... I would have loaded up! =0A-Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <-- High T
est. -Maybe it was in the REGULAR Pumps =0Aat $3.26 a Gallon???=0ABut, th
e questions have to be asked:=0A1 - If there is so much control over AvGas
<--- So they say as to keep prices =0Ahigh. -Where was the control on the
delivery?=0A2 - Was AvGAs put into-uncontrolled-MoGas delivery vehicle
s?=0A3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles?=0A4 - Hav
e the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been-contaminated-with MoGas?=0A
5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEAD is being
=0Aburned by surface vehicles? And...=0A6 - Who picks up the $TAB$ on the
-destroyed-Catalytic-Converters. <--- NJ in all =0Atheir-wisdom-h
as done away with automobile inspection. -Except =0Afor-EMISSIONS-TES
TING. -So, if your car fails and you don't even know you had a =0Aload of
AvGas who pays for the repairs??? -AND even if you do know... WHO PAYS!
=0A=0ANo coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up with a
====== =0A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations |
Correction, AV Web said it was 100 LL=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0AFrom: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>=0ATo: grumman-gang <grumman
-gang@mailman.xmission.com>=0ASent: Thu, December 13, 2012 8:32:50 AM=0ASub
ject: RotaxEngines-List: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations=0A=0AGang:
=0A=0AI was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK,
NJ =0ANEWSPAPER), Page 21.=0A=0AGas Stations being shut down because they
are selling AVIATION GAS!!!=0A=0AToo bad I did not know which station were
selling it... I would have loaded up! =0A-Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <
-- High Test. -Maybe it was in the REGULAR Pumps =0Aat $3.26 a Gallon???
=0ABut, the questions have to be asked:=0A1 - If there is so much control o
ver AvGas <--- So they say as to keep prices =0Ahigh. -Where was the cont
rol on the delivery?=0A2 - Was AvGAs put into-uncontrolled-MoGas delive
ry vehicles?=0A3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles?
=0A4 - Have the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been-contaminated-with
MoGas?=0A5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEA
D is being =0Aburned by surface vehicles? And...=0A6 - Who picks up the $TA
B$ on the-destroyed-Catalytic-Converters. <--- NJ in all =0Atheir-w
isdom-has done away with automobile inspection. -Except =0Afor-EMISSI
ONS-TESTING. -So, if your car fails and you don't even know you had a
=0Aload of AvGas who pays for the repairs??? -AND even if you do know...
WHO PAYS!=0A=0ANo coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come
up with at this =0Atime.=0AMaybe you have a few to ask?=0A=0A=0ABarry=0A _
-========================
-========================
========= =0A
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations |
FYI,
See --
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2012/12/three_mercer_county_gas_statio.html
for the full story. Looks like Jet Fuel.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Dec 13, 2012, at 8:19 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
Gang:
I was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK, NJ NEWSPAPER),
Page 21.
Gas Stations being shut down because they are selling AVIATION GAS!!!
Too bad I did not know which station were selling it... I would have loaded up!
Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <-- High Test. Maybe it was in the REGULAR Pumps
at $3.26 a Gallon???
But, the questions have to be asked:
1 - If there is so much control over AvGas <--- So they say as to keep prices high.
Where was the control on the delivery?
2 - Was AvGAs put into uncontrolled MoGas delivery vehicles?
3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles?
4 - Have the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been contaminated with MoGas?
5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEAD is being burned
by surface vehicles? And...
6 - Who picks up the $TAB$ on the destroyed Catalytic Converters. <--- NJ in all
their wisdom has done away with automobile inspection. Except for EMISSIONS
TESTING. So, if your car fails and you don't even know you had a load of AvGas
who pays for the repairs??? AND even if you do know... WHO PAYS!
No coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up with at this time.
Maybe you have a few to ask?
Barry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough |
Alan
If you go to www.conairsports.co.uk web site you can find link to download
their good article on the Rotax plus installation & on line maintenance
manuals for free. They also sell a soft start module to delay firing to
retro fit to the Ducati ignition modules if required. If you have a recent
engine according to the manual the soft start is built in to use but will
requires connecting.
I have no experience of running a Rotax as yet as plane build is not
completed and the engine is not new, a previous owner suggested the soft
start module would be a good idea.
Be aware that each ignition module fires 2 plugs at the same time one on
compression stroke before TDC & the other I presume on exhaust stroke on
another cylinder.
Regards Clive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough
> <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
> Hello All.
> Rotax 914 engine,
> Aircraft in the SE England, temp about +3 first flight for about 6 weeks.
> Fuel Mogas, Full Charged Battery, Engine Gurgled,Full Choke on Start.
> I had difficulty in starting the engine, it took a long time before it
> fired and when it did i had ?? Detonation or Pre ignition not sure which
> term would suit
> but the engine fire to soon and pushed the piston down before it passed
> over TDC causing sudden stopping ,or Prop flickering to too and throw, not
> good.
> Is there a way to stop this happening , or control settings to use for
> cold starts., the plane has a tendency to do this.
> I have a second problem, on the Right Mag i get a drop and it goes into
> rough running misfiring banging, From memory i can,t remember if its the
> top or bottom plugs on the Right Key Position, but all the plugs changed
> about 25 or 30 hours ago.
> Another Question with regards to the Coils, 4 of them.
> Are they all the same, ie, no timings involved can use any other one,
> Its just a Coil ?? is that correct.
> With regards to the Fuel Mogas, thinking of trying Mogas Super (UK) spec.
>
> Regards
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390302#390302
>
>
>
Message 6
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Interesting reading in current issue of Sport Aviation. See link below:
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201212#pg28
It sites CHT responds to EGT in regards to fuel burn and rpm (especially
totally air-cooled engines). Your heads have oil cooling to help.
Any major changes in outside air temps? Where are you located?
Joe Connell
Kitfox II N95JJ
Time: 04:35:48 AM PST US
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: EGT Indications
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Hi All,
I have a 912S and recently have noticed a trend of higher exhaust gas
temps on
the rear two cylinders. I know that CHT will read higher on the two rear
cylinders
but not sure if that same reason would apply to EGT as well. The temps
are
just 20 to 30 degrees below max. About to take off the cowlings and
start my
annual and wanted to hear some thoughts on this subject from you all.
Thanks.
Troy Maynor
Europa Monowheel Classic
195 hours
912S
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough |
Hi Clive.
How can a Ducati ignition system cost as much as the bike, these parts are well
over priced at a guess i would say to replace the system would set you back about
3000.
I have been told to try starting on one mag, but my switch goes through L&R before
start, to do this i would nee to ground out one of the mags temporally, but
not sure how to do this,?
Yes i have been to the Web site you mentioned.
I knew about the double spark, and as you guess its on the exhaust stroke of another
cylinder, but don,t know the reason why this is done,??
I also have heard of cars with double sparks not sure if this is the same or means
a double spark on the combustion stroke,?
Anybody.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390407#390407
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough |
Hi Y'all,
I can't speak to the costs involved in the various bits and pieces of the engine
other than to say that they do seem pricey.
Clive, to start on one mag, you would have to install a single pole-single-throw switch (like this one, the S700-1-2 ON-OFF, from B & C http://www.bandc.biz/toggleswitch-singlepole.aspx ) to ground one of the ignition modules. Each module has the equivalent of a "P-Lead" on a magneto system. This wire, when grounded, shuts off the ignition module, just like grounding the P-Lead shuts off a magneto. The switch would have to be installed in parallel with one of those wires to provide an alternate ground. Not difficult, just a bit of a PITA. See the Rotax 914 Installation Manual, Sections 19.4.3 & 19.4.4 for more information.
The reason for using a "wasted spark" system is simplicity. In the flat 4 with
180 crank throws there are two pistons at TDC every 180. One on the compression
stroke and one on the exhaust stroke. At the same time there are two pistons
at BDC. That makes it easy to just fire the plugs every 180 in the two pistons
going to TDC. This is done with two tabs, 180 apart, on the flywheel.
Every half rev a tab goes through the trigger coil firing the two cylinders where
the pistons are heading for TDC. Super simple, easy to do & firing the plug
on the exhaust stroke doesn't hurt anything. To try and fire each cylinder
individually, would add a lot of mechanical and electrical complexity that's
just not needed.
I hope this helps.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Dec 13, 2012, at 2:25 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
Hi Clive.
How can a Ducati ignition system cost as much as the bike, these parts are well
over priced at a guess i would say to replace the system would set you back about
3000.
I have been told to try starting on one mag, but my switch goes through L&R before
start, to do this i would nee to ground out one of the mags temporally, but
not sure how to do this,?
Yes i have been to the Web site you mentioned.
I knew about the double spark, and as you guess its on the exhaust stroke of another
cylinder, but don,t know the reason why this is done,??
I also have heard of cars with double sparks not sure if this is the same or means
a double spark on the combustion stroke,?
Anybody.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390407#390407
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough |
Alan:
If you have the standard (Usually a BENDIX) OFF - Right - Left - START
switch it automatically grounds the RIGHT Mag during START. That is
because the Left Mag is an Impulse Mag. And you do not want to create a
KICKBACK situation with the Right Mag. During STARTING the Right & Left
mags have a timing difference.
We are talking Lycoming & Continental type engines.
Barry
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>wrot
e:
> alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
> Hi Clive.
> How can a Ducati ignition system cost as much as the bike, these parts ar
e
> well over priced at a guess i would say to replace the system would set y
ou
> back about =A33000.
>
> I have been told to try starting on one mag, but my switch goes through
> L&R before start, to do this i would nee to ground out one of the mags
> temporally, but not sure how to do this,?
>
> Yes i have been to the Web site you mentioned.
> I knew about the double spark, and as you guess its on the exhaust stroke
> of another cylinder, but don,t know the reason why this is done,??
>
> I also have heard of cars with double sparks not sure if this is the same
> or means a double spark on the combustion stroke,?
>
> Anybody.
> Regards
> Alan
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough |
Alan
Discription of ACS & Bendix switch connections as used on most light
aircraft.
Off Connects (inner GRD) L R Terminals together which are
used to earth both magnetos
Right Connects (inner GRD) L Terminals together
which are
used to earth the left magneto
Left Connects (inner GRD) R Terminals together
which are
used to earth the right magneto
Both Connect no Terminals together
Start Connects BAT S Terminals together for starter
solenoid and (inner GRD) (outer GRD) Terminals together which are used
to earth right magneto if required by fitting a link between R & (outer GRD)
terminals
and BO LR L Terminals together not used in
the circuit I have
In the circuit that I have used for a continental 0-200 a negative feed is
connected to BAT , the
starter solonid to S. the Magneto screens which are earthed at the magneto
end are connected to the (inner GRD) terminal the The Right magneto is
connected to R The left magneto is connected to L And There is a link on
the switch connecting R To the adjacent (outer) GRD terminal. Why two
seperate
terminals are marked GRD I have no idea.
As both magnetos have impulse couplings I since removed (outer GRD) R link.
By firing two plugs with each rotation of the engine one pickup coil can be
used to fire two cylinders & removes the need for a distributor.
hope this helps
Clive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough
> <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
> Hello All.
> Rotax 914 engine,
>> Regards
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390302#390302
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough |
Hello All.
Its getting a bit complicated for me, but as far as i can make out, the coils
fire two plugs at a time, every 180% of the fly wheel, its a dual ignition system
but to keep it simple look at it as a single ignition system, so the distributor
is disposed of due to the dual sparks, So as two pistons are coming up
there barrels one on compression and one one exhaust both plugs spark, then this
same happens again as the other two come up there barrels in turn.
So to stop kick back , spin the engine faster or make the spark occur later ,
preferably after TDC.
Is that roughly correct
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390415#390415
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough |
Hi Again.
Would warming the engine for 15 minutes with a couple of Hair driers blowing hot
air into the cowling help.??
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390417#390417
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough |
Alan,
You got it! And Super or Super Plus Mogas. From the Rotax 914 Operators Manual:
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Dec 13, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
Hello All.
Its getting a bit complicated for me, but as far as i can make out, the coils
fire two plugs at a time, every 180% of the fly wheel, its a dual ignition system
but to keep it simple look at it as a single ignition system, so the distributor
is disposed of due to the dual sparks, So as two pistons are coming up
there barrels one on compression and one one exhaust both plugs spark, then this
same happens again as the other two come up there barrels in turn.
So to stop kick back , spin the engine faster or make the spark occur later ,
preferably after TDC.
Is that roughly correct
Alan
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