---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/13/12: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:20 AM - AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations (FLYaDIVE) 2. 06:40 AM - Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations (Arthur Glaser) 3. 06:45 AM - Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations (Arthur Glaser) 4. 07:03 AM - Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations (Robert Borger) 5. 10:08 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Clive Richards) 6. 11:31 AM - EGT Indications (Joe & Jan Connell) 7. 12:25 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Alan Carter) 8. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Robert Borger) 9. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (FLYaDIVE) 10. 01:56 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Clive Richards) 11. 03:07 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Alan Carter) 12. 03:24 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Alan Carter) 13. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Robert Borger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:32 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations From: FLYaDIVE Gang: I was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK, NJ NEWSPAPER), Page 21. Gas Stations being shut down because they are selling AVIATION GAS!!! Too bad I did not know which station were selling it... I would have loaded up! Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <-- High Test. Maybe it was in the REGULAR Pumps at $3.26 a Gallon??? But, the questions have to be asked: 1 - If there is so much control over AvGas <--- So they say as to keep prices high. Where was the control on the delivery? 2 - Was AvGAs put into uncontrolled MoGas delivery vehicles? 3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles? 4 - Have the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been contaminated with MoGas? 5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEAD is being burned by surface vehicles? And... 6 - Who picks up the $TAB$ on the destroyed Catalytic Converters. <--- NJ in all their wisdom has done away with automobile inspection. Except for EMISSIONS TESTING. So, if your car fails and you don't even know you had a load of AvGas who pays for the repairs??? AND even if you do know... WHO PAYS! No coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up with at this time. Maybe you have a few to ask? Barry ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:52 AM PST US From: Arthur Glaser Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations I believe it was jet fuel.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________ =0AFrom: FLYaDIVE =0ATo: grumman-gang =0ASent: Thu, December 13, 2012 8:32:50 AM=0ASubject: Rot axEngines-List: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations=0A=0AGang: =0A=0AI was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK, NJ =0ANE WSPAPER), Page 21.=0A=0AGas Stations being shut down because they are selli ng AVIATION GAS!!!=0A=0AToo bad I did not know which station were selling i t... I would have loaded up! =0A-Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <-- High T est. -Maybe it was in the REGULAR Pumps =0Aat $3.26 a Gallon???=0ABut, th e questions have to be asked:=0A1 - If there is so much control over AvGas <--- So they say as to keep prices =0Ahigh. -Where was the control on the delivery?=0A2 - Was AvGAs put into-uncontrolled-MoGas delivery vehicle s?=0A3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles?=0A4 - Hav e the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been-contaminated-with MoGas?=0A 5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEAD is being =0Aburned by surface vehicles? And...=0A6 - Who picks up the $TAB$ on the -destroyed-Catalytic-Converters. <--- NJ in all =0Atheir-wisdom-h as done away with automobile inspection. -Except =0Afor-EMISSIONS-TES TING. -So, if your car fails and you don't even know you had a =0Aload of AvGas who pays for the repairs??? -AND even if you do know... WHO PAYS! =0A=0ANo coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up with a ====== =0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:45 AM PST US From: Arthur Glaser Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations Correction, AV Web said it was 100 LL=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________ _________=0AFrom: FLYaDIVE =0ATo: grumman-gang =0ASent: Thu, December 13, 2012 8:32:50 AM=0ASub ject: RotaxEngines-List: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations=0A=0AGang: =0A=0AI was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK, NJ =0ANEWSPAPER), Page 21.=0A=0AGas Stations being shut down because they are selling AVIATION GAS!!!=0A=0AToo bad I did not know which station were selling it... I would have loaded up! =0A-Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. < -- High Test. -Maybe it was in the REGULAR Pumps =0Aat $3.26 a Gallon??? =0ABut, the questions have to be asked:=0A1 - If there is so much control o ver AvGas <--- So they say as to keep prices =0Ahigh. -Where was the cont rol on the delivery?=0A2 - Was AvGAs put into-uncontrolled-MoGas delive ry vehicles?=0A3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles? =0A4 - Have the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been-contaminated-with MoGas?=0A5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEA D is being =0Aburned by surface vehicles? And...=0A6 - Who picks up the $TA B$ on the-destroyed-Catalytic-Converters. <--- NJ in all =0Atheir-w isdom-has done away with automobile inspection. -Except =0Afor-EMISSI ONS-TESTING. -So, if your car fails and you don't even know you had a =0Aload of AvGas who pays for the repairs??? -AND even if you do know... WHO PAYS!=0A=0ANo coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up with at this =0Atime.=0AMaybe you have a few to ask?=0A=0A=0ABarry=0A _ -======================== -======================== ========= =0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations From: Robert Borger FYI, See -- http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2012/12/three_mercer_county_gas_statio.html for the full story. Looks like Jet Fuel. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Dec 13, 2012, at 8:19 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote: Gang: I was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK, NJ NEWSPAPER), Page 21. Gas Stations being shut down because they are selling AVIATION GAS!!! Too bad I did not know which station were selling it... I would have loaded up! Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <-- High Test. Maybe it was in the REGULAR Pumps at $3.26 a Gallon??? But, the questions have to be asked: 1 - If there is so much control over AvGas <--- So they say as to keep prices high. Where was the control on the delivery? 2 - Was AvGAs put into uncontrolled MoGas delivery vehicles? 3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles? 4 - Have the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been contaminated with MoGas? 5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEAD is being burned by surface vehicles? And... 6 - Who picks up the $TAB$ on the destroyed Catalytic Converters. <--- NJ in all their wisdom has done away with automobile inspection. Except for EMISSIONS TESTING. So, if your car fails and you don't even know you had a load of AvGas who pays for the repairs??? AND even if you do know... WHO PAYS! No coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up with at this time. Maybe you have a few to ask? Barry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:17 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough Alan If you go to www.conairsports.co.uk web site you can find link to download their good article on the Rotax plus installation & on line maintenance manuals for free. They also sell a soft start module to delay firing to retro fit to the Ducati ignition modules if required. If you have a recent engine according to the manual the soft start is built in to use but will requires connecting. I have no experience of running a Rotax as yet as plane build is not completed and the engine is not new, a previous owner suggested the soft start module would be a good idea. Be aware that each ignition module fires 2 plugs at the same time one on compression stroke before TDC & the other I presume on exhaust stroke on another cylinder. Regards Clive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Carter" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:53 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough > > > Hello All. > Rotax 914 engine, > Aircraft in the SE England, temp about +3 first flight for about 6 weeks. > Fuel Mogas, Full Charged Battery, Engine Gurgled,Full Choke on Start. > I had difficulty in starting the engine, it took a long time before it > fired and when it did i had ?? Detonation or Pre ignition not sure which > term would suit > but the engine fire to soon and pushed the piston down before it passed > over TDC causing sudden stopping ,or Prop flickering to too and throw, not > good. > Is there a way to stop this happening , or control settings to use for > cold starts., the plane has a tendency to do this. > I have a second problem, on the Right Mag i get a drop and it goes into > rough running misfiring banging, From memory i can,t remember if its the > top or bottom plugs on the Right Key Position, but all the plugs changed > about 25 or 30 hours ago. > Another Question with regards to the Coils, 4 of them. > Are they all the same, ie, no timings involved can use any other one, > Its just a Coil ?? is that correct. > With regards to the Fuel Mogas, thinking of trying Mogas Super (UK) spec. > > Regards > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390302#390302 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:58 AM PST US From: "Joe & Jan Connell" Subject: RotaxEngines-List: EGT Indications Interesting reading in current issue of Sport Aviation. See link below: http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201212#pg28 It sites CHT responds to EGT in regards to fuel burn and rpm (especially totally air-cooled engines). Your heads have oil cooling to help. Any major changes in outside air temps? Where are you located? Joe Connell Kitfox II N95JJ Time: 04:35:48 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: EGT Indications From: "Troy Maynor" Hi All, I have a 912S and recently have noticed a trend of higher exhaust gas temps on the rear two cylinders. I know that CHT will read higher on the two rear cylinders but not sure if that same reason would apply to EGT as well. The temps are just 20 to 30 degrees below max. About to take off the cowlings and start my annual and wanted to hear some thoughts on this subject from you all. Thanks. Troy Maynor Europa Monowheel Classic 195 hours 912S ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:33 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough From: "Alan Carter" Hi Clive. How can a Ducati ignition system cost as much as the bike, these parts are well over priced at a guess i would say to replace the system would set you back about 3000. I have been told to try starting on one mag, but my switch goes through L&R before start, to do this i would nee to ground out one of the mags temporally, but not sure how to do this,? Yes i have been to the Web site you mentioned. I knew about the double spark, and as you guess its on the exhaust stroke of another cylinder, but don,t know the reason why this is done,?? I also have heard of cars with double sparks not sure if this is the same or means a double spark on the combustion stroke,? Anybody. Regards Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390407#390407 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough From: Robert Borger Hi Y'all, I can't speak to the costs involved in the various bits and pieces of the engine other than to say that they do seem pricey. Clive, to start on one mag, you would have to install a single pole-single-throw switch (like this one, the S700-1-2 ON-OFF, from B & C http://www.bandc.biz/toggleswitch-singlepole.aspx ) to ground one of the ignition modules. Each module has the equivalent of a "P-Lead" on a magneto system. This wire, when grounded, shuts off the ignition module, just like grounding the P-Lead shuts off a magneto. The switch would have to be installed in parallel with one of those wires to provide an alternate ground. Not difficult, just a bit of a PITA. See the Rotax 914 Installation Manual, Sections 19.4.3 & 19.4.4 for more information. The reason for using a "wasted spark" system is simplicity. In the flat 4 with 180 crank throws there are two pistons at TDC every 180. One on the compression stroke and one on the exhaust stroke. At the same time there are two pistons at BDC. That makes it easy to just fire the plugs every 180 in the two pistons going to TDC. This is done with two tabs, 180 apart, on the flywheel. Every half rev a tab goes through the trigger coil firing the two cylinders where the pistons are heading for TDC. Super simple, easy to do & firing the plug on the exhaust stroke doesn't hurt anything. To try and fire each cylinder individually, would add a lot of mechanical and electrical complexity that's just not needed. I hope this helps. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Dec 13, 2012, at 2:25 PM, Alan Carter wrote: Hi Clive. How can a Ducati ignition system cost as much as the bike, these parts are well over priced at a guess i would say to replace the system would set you back about 3000. I have been told to try starting on one mag, but my switch goes through L&R before start, to do this i would nee to ground out one of the mags temporally, but not sure how to do this,? Yes i have been to the Web site you mentioned. I knew about the double spark, and as you guess its on the exhaust stroke of another cylinder, but don,t know the reason why this is done,?? I also have heard of cars with double sparks not sure if this is the same or means a double spark on the combustion stroke,? Anybody. Regards Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390407#390407 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough From: FLYaDIVE Alan: If you have the standard (Usually a BENDIX) OFF - Right - Left - START switch it automatically grounds the RIGHT Mag during START. That is because the Left Mag is an Impulse Mag. And you do not want to create a KICKBACK situation with the Right Mag. During STARTING the Right & Left mags have a timing difference. We are talking Lycoming & Continental type engines. Barry On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Alan Carter wrot e: > alancarteresq@onetel.net> > > Hi Clive. > How can a Ducati ignition system cost as much as the bike, these parts ar e > well over priced at a guess i would say to replace the system would set y ou > back about =A33000. > > I have been told to try starting on one mag, but my switch goes through > L&R before start, to do this i would nee to ground out one of the mags > temporally, but not sure how to do this,? > > Yes i have been to the Web site you mentioned. > I knew about the double spark, and as you guess its on the exhaust stroke > of another cylinder, but don,t know the reason why this is done,?? > > I also have heard of cars with double sparks not sure if this is the same > or means a double spark on the combustion stroke,? > > Anybody. > Regards > Alan > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:54 PM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough Alan Discription of ACS & Bendix switch connections as used on most light aircraft. Off Connects (inner GRD) L R Terminals together which are used to earth both magnetos Right Connects (inner GRD) L Terminals together which are used to earth the left magneto Left Connects (inner GRD) R Terminals together which are used to earth the right magneto Both Connect no Terminals together Start Connects BAT S Terminals together for starter solenoid and (inner GRD) (outer GRD) Terminals together which are used to earth right magneto if required by fitting a link between R & (outer GRD) terminals and BO LR L Terminals together not used in the circuit I have In the circuit that I have used for a continental 0-200 a negative feed is connected to BAT , the starter solonid to S. the Magneto screens which are earthed at the magneto end are connected to the (inner GRD) terminal the The Right magneto is connected to R The left magneto is connected to L And There is a link on the switch connecting R To the adjacent (outer) GRD terminal. Why two seperate terminals are marked GRD I have no idea. As both magnetos have impulse couplings I since removed (outer GRD) R link. By firing two plugs with each rotation of the engine one pickup coil can be used to fire two cylinders & removes the need for a distributor. hope this helps Clive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Carter" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:53 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough > > > Hello All. > Rotax 914 engine, >> Regards > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390302#390302 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:46 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough From: "Alan Carter" Hello All. Its getting a bit complicated for me, but as far as i can make out, the coils fire two plugs at a time, every 180% of the fly wheel, its a dual ignition system but to keep it simple look at it as a single ignition system, so the distributor is disposed of due to the dual sparks, So as two pistons are coming up there barrels one on compression and one one exhaust both plugs spark, then this same happens again as the other two come up there barrels in turn. So to stop kick back , spin the engine faster or make the spark occur later , preferably after TDC. Is that roughly correct Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390415#390415 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:00 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough From: "Alan Carter" Hi Again. Would warming the engine for 15 minutes with a couple of Hair driers blowing hot air into the cowling help.?? Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390417#390417 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough From: Robert Borger Alan, You got it! And Super or Super Plus Mogas. From the Rotax 914 Operators Manual: Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Dec 13, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Alan Carter wrote: Hello All. Its getting a bit complicated for me, but as far as i can make out, the coils fire two plugs at a time, every 180% of the fly wheel, its a dual ignition system but to keep it simple look at it as a single ignition system, so the distributor is disposed of due to the dual sparks, So as two pistons are coming up there barrels one on compression and one one exhaust both plugs spark, then this same happens again as the other two come up there barrels in turn. So to stop kick back , spin the engine faster or make the spark occur later , preferably after TDC. Is that roughly correct Alan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.