Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:13 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough (Duncan & Ami)
2. 03:37 AM - Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start (Alan Carter)
3. 05:04 AM - Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start (Robert Borger)
4. 10:29 AM - Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start (Alan Carter)
5. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start (Robert Borger)
6. 11:36 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag Rough (John Goodings)
7. 01:18 PM - Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start (Alan Carter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough |
<<.... or wait till summer before i fly.>>
Or stick a hairdrier under the cowl for 20 minutes prior to start up.
This works for me, even when the engine has been cold soaked at -3C.
Duncan McF.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan
Carter
Sent: 14 December 2012 12:36
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag rough
--> <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
Hi All.
Phoned Con Air today the Soft Start Module with the 4 pin connectors is for
early engines around the year 2000 like mine, it cost about 140 but you
have to be wired in the cockpit to be able to start on one mag.
You can also purchase a Rotax kit that consists of 2 modules it retards
both ignitions and requires NO cockpit wiring of mags switches, but this
kits about 550 probably plus Vat ?? but Will only work with the later 6
pin connections on the later engines.
For me, Change Fuel to Super Plus, if no good, then wire for 1 mag start,.
if no good, fit Soft Start Module. or wait till summer before i fly.
As you can see i would rather berry my head in the sand and hope it would go
away.
My last job was replacing the battery in the GPS and also wiring the main
battery for external charging. I have just looked at the wheel struts why is
there no little pad to put a jack under.?
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390436#390436
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| Subject: | Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start |
Hello Barry.
Many thanks, So far so good all makes sense.
With regards to:
Does Rotax use an IMPULSE Coupler on one MAG? Or...
Does Rotax use TWO IMPULSE Copuler's - One on each MAG?
I'll explain my question later.
I have no idea :
But the 914 engine is year 2000, and has 4 pin connectors.
I replaced a coil some time ago, but can,t remember how i traced the faulty one,
except i swapped them around, go really fed up and decided if i every have
to do this job again i will know where every lead goes.
So on every HT cable i placed coloured cable tie,s .
(Red being Port side, ie Left and Green Being Starboard side, ie Right. ie (as
in Nav lights)
So all my Left mag HT leads are Red, going to the top set of coils marked
with Red stickers.
And all my Right mag HT leads are Green,going to the Bottom set of coils which
you,v guessed it has Green stickers on them.
And on my Rotary Mag Switch in the cockpit i have a little sticker L >Red
and R>Green .
So when i do my mag check i say to myself.
L =Port which is Red markers and its the 2 Red Coils with its 4 Red Leads which
are the Top Plugs that i am checking.
And you have confirmed position L = live.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390514#390514
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| Subject: | Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start |
Barry,
You are absolutely correct for a magneto based system. Rotax does not
use magnetos. Rotax uses a CDI (Capacitive Discharge Ignition) system,
a type of electronic ignition that does not require a separate power
source. Like a mag, the ignition module is grounded to prevent it from
firing. Your explanation is, again, correct for the Rotax if you
substitute "ignition module" for "MAG."
Where it falls apart is when you went to "Impulse Coupler." Because
it's not a mag, there are no impulse couplers. The Rotax CDI system is
triggered by a pair of tabs on the flywheel. Below ~800 RPM the system
triggers on the trailing edge of the tab (4=BABTDC or 3=BAATDC depending
on the age of the system). Once the engine starts, >800 RPM, the system
triggers on the leading edge of the tab.
Most Rotax folks use the term "MAG" for simplicity sake, because that's
what most folks are familiar with.
Kind of like the "Choke" which isn't really a choke, it's a separate
little carb which is activated to provide a richer mixture on startup.
Same function as the choke on a "normal" engine, just a different
physical implementation.
Alan,
The only sure way to determine which module is grounded when your key is
in any specific position is by making a continuity check from the back
of the key to the grounding lead on each ignition module. Or, I guess
you could put the key in a position and see which of your grounding
leads has continuity to ground, that is, which is grounded. Your older
system uses 4 modules, my system is just enough newer (2002) to use only
two modules, labeled A & B. So, I guess I should really have my two
grounding switches labeled A & B rather than L & R. And on the 914. one
module fires the upper and the other module the lower plugs. On the 912
& 912S, a module fires the upper on one side and lower on the other.
The Rotax 9xx engines aren't your daddy's Lycoming/Continental. Twin
carbs, CDI, gearbox and most happy when turning over 5000 RPM while
burning 4 - 5 gph.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Dec 16, 2012, at 12:34 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan:
It is very simple. Don't overload yourself with too much info.
OFF = BOTH MAGs are Grounded.
L = Left = Left MAG is HOT -and Right MAG is Grounded.
R = Right = Right MAG is HOT - and Left MAG is Grounded.
BOTH = BOTH MAGS are HOT. NO MAGs are Grounded.
START = START the engine by Grounding the Right MAG and Turning ON the
Starter Motor.
The rule to remember is: MAGs are ALWAYS HOT.
The only way of removing a MAG from the system is to GROUND out the
output of the MAG... To electrical Ground.
NOW, of course I have to confuse things here just a bit. I have to ask
you and the gaggle a couple of questions:
Does Rotax use an IMPULSE Coupler on one MAG? Or...
Does Rotax use TWO IMPULSE Copuler's - One on each MAG?
I'll explain my question later.
Barry
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start |
Hi Barry ,Bob.
Barry i like your description, Ground and live, and Bob i follow what you are saying
as in my younger days the old Cessna 150 had a impulse mag, and that was
the left one, and as far as i can remember with the key at start it started on
the left impulse mag only.
You mention A&B modules, My system Has A&B ignition from the "two flat electronic
ignition modules" located laying over the the 4 coil units.
To find the Continuity grounding ete, to check which is left and right.
I think you said on the 914 ignition "A" fires the Top Plugs, so provided the person
that built my Europa connected the mag wire the correct way round
ie Ignition A to the Left key position i think i have it colour labeled up correct
So when i do my mag check i say to myself.
L =(Port which is my Red marked system) electronic ignition module "A" plus the
2 Upper Red marked Coils, plus the 4 Red marked HT Leads which are going to
the Top Plugs.
To check this out i need to continuity ground the mags , I will have to do it the
incorrect way and take a chance,
Start the engine with all the Top leads off, and turn the key to the (L)
if it stops it means L = top plugs, confirming all is correct as i have marked.
Which is what i would be hoping and think this will be the case.
Alan
Continued :: Part 2
I want a separate starter press button switch.
So the plan is to find on the back of my rotary ignition switch the + power live
lead and its return lead to the starter solenoid.
Extend these two wires so they reach the new push to start switch which will be
mounted about 10" away fro the mag switch.
Leave all the mag leads intact on the rotary switch , so now i can still key select
individual mags,
The end goal will be to fitt the Soft start module.
This is a photo of the Rotax Switch
http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/conairsports/conair-soft-start-module-ssm-735-p.asp
It has 3 terminals, ??
Alan
.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390536#390536
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start |
Alan,
Do not operate the engine with any spark plug wires removed. Never pull a spark
plug wire when the engine is running. Don't turn over the engine with a spark
plug wire removed to look for a spark. You will destroy the module to which
the plug is connected. That spark energy has to go somewhere and if you don't
put it in a plug it is dumped in the module and can fry the module. Very expensive
test method to ensure you kill a module.
Locate the proper grounding lead on each module and check for continuity to the
switch. Or, put the switch on, say, Left, this would ground the "Right" mag
(ignition module) then see which module has the grounding lead continuity to ground.
If it is wired as per the installation guide, only one will show continuity
to ground. That will tell you which module (A or B) is wired to left or
right. Then you can disconnect the battery ground wire, put the switch in start
and see if either ignition module is grounded for a single module start.
If you find one is grounded for start, you can put the soft start module on the
other module and go straight with your ignition switch setup. If it is not
grounding either module, then you will have to install a separate grounding switch
for one module and put the soft start on the other module.
Part 2:
Not a bad idea. But you might consider going the full route and dump the rotary
ignition switch all together and go with separate grounding switches for each
module and a separate push button or spring loaded toggle starter switch. With
the push button starter switch, this is my set up.
There are even ways you can do this with two toggle switches, rather than three. One switch is a simple SPST to ground one ignition. The other is a DPTT (Double Pole Triple Throw) switch with positions: closed (grounding a module), open (ungrounding), closed (voltage to starter solenoid) which is spring loaded to the center. { http://www.bandc.biz/toggleswitch-doublepole.aspx S700-2-5 (ON)-OFF-ON }. I think Bob Nuckolls has a couple Z diagrams which show the use of this switch. If not, I can show you how to wire it and can provide pictures and confirmation tests as to switch positions and continuities.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Dec 16, 2012, at 12:27 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
Hi Barry ,Bob.
Barry i like your description, Ground and live, and Bob i follow what you are saying
as in my younger days the old Cessna 150 had a impulse mag, and that was
the left one, and as far as i can remember with the key at start it started on
the left impulse mag only.
You mention A&B modules, My system Has A&B ignition from the "two flat electronic
ignition modules" located laying over the the 4 coil units.
To find the Continuity grounding ete, to check which is left and right.
I think you said on the 914 ignition "A" fires the Top Plugs, so provided the person
that built my Europa connected the mag wire the correct way round
ie Ignition A to the Left key position i think i have it colour labeled up correct
So when i do my mag check i say to myself.
L =(Port which is my Red marked system) electronic ignition module "A" plus the
2 Upper Red marked Coils, plus the 4 Red marked HT Leads which are going to
the Top Plugs.
To check this out i need to continuity ground the mags , I will have to do it the
incorrect way and take a chance,
Start the engine with all the Top leads off, and turn the key to the (L)
if it stops it means L = top plugs, confirming all is correct as i have marked.
Which is what i would be hoping and think this will be the case.
Alan
Continued :: Part 2
I want a separate starter press button switch.
So the plan is to find on the back of my rotary ignition switch the + power live
lead and its return lead to the starter solenoid.
Extend these two wires so they reach the new push to start switch which will be
mounted about 10" away fro the mag switch.
Leave all the mag leads intact on the rotary switch , so now i can still key select
individual mags,
The end goal will be to fitt the Soft start module.
This is a photo of the Rotax Switch
http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/conairsports/conair-soft-start-module-ssm-735-p.asp
It has 3 terminals, ??
Alan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Right Mag Rough |
PLEASE don't make something complicated out of something simple. To
change a wheel or whatever on a Zenair Zodiac, simply get your shoulders
under the spar and lift the wheel off the ground. My 70-year-old-legs are
plenty strong enough. (Further outboard gives you a mechanical advantage.
You are lifting less than 200 pounds.) Support it with some cardboard
boxes or whatever is handy. Make sure the support is under the spar. A
blanket or coat or whatever over the support is probably a good idea.
This is simple, it is quick, it is portable, it is foolproof (even by
me!). Take 10 seconds to try it before making a (complicated) jack.
[Perhaps other aircraft are much heavier than a Zodiac???]
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD Zodiac with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: OFF>L>R>Both>Start |
Hi Bob.
OK will not try it. will re read all.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390554#390554
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