Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: Van's SB 13-3-21 5-year rubber replacement parts (FLYaDIVE)
2. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: Van's SB 13-3-21 5-year rubber replacement parts (James Dustin)
3. 10:03 AM - putting new 532 into service (turbot)
4. 10:24 PM - Re: putting new 532 into service (Roger Lee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Van's SB 13-3-21 5-year rubber replacement |
parts
Roger:
You are spot-on with your post. And I really like your statement: "I have
seen it all something new pops up either owner caused (most common from act
or omission) or something odd just because it was an aircraft." And I
would put "just because it was an aircraft", under induced human error. I
haven't seen it all, but I have seen enough to ask why did god let this
idiot live, if for no other reason than to disprove Darwin's Theory.
One should really take a lesson from SOME of the stuff the FAA has done for
us. On GA aircraft there are two types of hoses:
1 - The Fire Sleeve hose assembly which has a Time Life Limit of five (5)
years. This is so much so the RULE that ALL approved Fire Sleeve hoses
MUST be replaced in that time limit. And ALL hoses must be BUILT by an FAA
Approved manufacture. And ALL those hoses MUST have a metal label with
Manufacture and Date stamped into it. And one should NOTE! That the five
(5) years is the HALF LIFE of the hose.
2 - The other hose available is the TEFLON Hose with over-molded Fire
Sleeve. This hose must meet and exceed all the requirement of the fire
sleeve hose assembly. BUT! Does not have a Life Limit. Buy it one -
Install it correctly --> No sharp bends - No twists and IAW AC43-13 and it
will last until the owner/operator or installer does something stupid.
There are two other points I would like to make on this hose subject:
a) The FAA does not permit A&P's/AI's to make hoses anymore. The hoses
MUST be made by Approved Manufactures. So, if an A&P/I can not make a hose
why does a EXPERIMENTAL builder think they can? I know, I know... Because
they are EXPERIMENTAL!!! Well, that only goes to prove the Darwin Theory.
Now, I KNOW builders that I trust with my life... Hell I've looped and
rolled and done Split S in RV6... I know the builder and in truth they are
BETTER than any Manufacture. But, they are one in a million. I've been to
enough fly-ins to know 99.98% of those builders out there are NOT! Don't
turn your head round, don't look at the other guy.
b) If you are using ANY of the APPROVED hoses for gas - They have to be
approved for MoGas as well as AvGas and that includes Alcohol (ETOH) and
Ethanol.
This also goes back to the Life Limit of five (5) years on Fire Sleeve
hoses. SO - Trying to blame Ethanol for a hose failure is not acceptable.
The failure is more than likely due to how the fittings were assembled on
the hose or as you said Roger - Owner Caused or Omitted.
For some crazy reason people have the idea that: If One is Good - - Two
must be Better. Example: Ever see TWO (2) NiCro Press Crimps on a single
eye thimble? Ever read the accident report on why the cable failed?
Same is true for hoses, I've seen double crimps and heard of... I've
cranked the pressure up to 250 PSI, instead of the 100 PSI as specified.
I know, I know... We are EXPERIMENTAL, we don't have to adhere to ALL the
FAA rules. But, some do make sense and to me hoses, especially Life Long
TEFLON hosed - Make a lot of sense. Pay for it once. Install it once.
And fly till something else breaks.
Barry
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys, Here is some food for thought while making those important
> decisions.
>
>
> First I'll be the first to say some hose can last longer than 5 years and
> I don't like the expense any more than the next guy, but I fly too many
> people and have too much with life or money to risk throwing it all away on
> poor maint. decisions just because of money. If you think teenagers make
> poor decisions, well plane owners rank right up there with them at times. I
> can make more money, but I can't replace people or busted up body parts. I
> have seen a few hose go in the last 6 years. It has cost these people
> anywhere from $1700 to $18K for repairs.
>
> Parts wear even when it isn't about time in place. I just rebuilt a set of
> carbs. They were two years old, but did have 1000 hrs on them. Several of
> the "O" rings inside were cracked and split and one float was sinking. I
> have posted pictures or coolant and fuel hoses cracking, mainly where they
> are crimped or secured on around the fitting. Barbed fittings are hard on
> hose. Let fuel get up under the inside liner of the hose and now it can
> flake. Since all your fuel line and oil line is supposed to be in fire
> sleeve how do you check all these hoses without dismantling them? 91 oct.
> with ethanol can be hard on some hose because the ethanol is a drier. Hose
> inside a tight cowl goes through a lot of heating and cooling cycles. Not
> all hose is created equal. I have found many with reduced radius hose
> because of heat shield applications or too tight of a bend. This list can
> go on and on. Rotax hose change schedule may be a little conservative, but
> because they can't control all t!
> he above variables it's that way and no owner can predict a hose failure
> or give every spec on every hose on their engine. There are a few short
> cuts that could be made to the parts list and price, but we all should have
> known flying wasn't an in-expensive sport nor a safe one if we ignore many
> safe guards along the way. Too many obituary's and forced landings to show
> otherwise.
>
>
> So the bottom line is which side of the fence do we decide to fall on?
> It's certainly your choice, but remember your not making that decision for
> yourself, but your family and friends whether they fly with you or not.
> Turn the situation around. If it was your parent, your wife or your son
> doing something that may cause their early demise cripple you for life,
> wipe out a lot of savings because of damage, liability to friends,
> neighbors or other civilians what advice would you give? How would you feel
> and get along without them. tell you're wife you're going to negate some
> safety maint. and it could possibly cause your early demise and get her
> opinion.
>
> Doing 30 annuals a year on LSA aircraft I have seen a lot and just when I
> think I have seen it all something new pops up either owner caused (most
> common from act or omission) or something odd just because it was an
> aircraft.
>
> I will tell you as a 30 yr. firefighter going to help and rescue thousands
> of people the one thing they all had in common was this saying: "Wow, that
> never happened before". Always a first time.
>
> I have posted numerous pictures of bad hoses on other sites over the last
> 2 years that should be enough for most to see hose health and failures is
> not an exact science and that at times the guy who said they'll last ten
> years can be wrong as many times as he may be right. I've done well over
> 40+ hose changes and seen first hand. Anyone else here done that many that
> can shed some light?
>
>
> I still dislike the cost, but I knew it when I started flying it wasn't my
> cheapest sport.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396857#396857
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Van's SB 13-3-21 5-year rubber replacement |
parts
Sorry to Hi-jack your line.
I have been trying to sign into the matronic site but my user name
doesn't work. Anyone know how to fix it?
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Lee<mailto:ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
To:
rotaxengines-list@matronics.com<mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:50 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Van's SB 13-3-21 5-year rubber
replacement parts
<ssadiver1@yahoo.com<mailto:ssadiver1@yahoo.com>>
Hi Guys, Here is some food for thought while making those important
decisions.
First I'll be the first to say some hose can last longer than 5 years
and I don't like the expense any more than the next guy, but I fly too
many people and have too much with life or money to risk throwing it all
away on poor maint. decisions just because of money. If you think
teenagers make poor decisions, well plane owners rank right up there
with them at times. I can make more money, but I can't replace people or
busted up body parts. I have seen a few hose go in the last 6 years. It
has cost these people anywhere from $1700 to $18K for repairs.
Parts wear even when it isn't about time in place. I just rebuilt a
set of carbs. They were two years old, but did have 1000 hrs on them.
Several of the "O" rings inside were cracked and split and one float
was sinking. I have posted pictures or coolant and fuel hoses cracking,
mainly where they are crimped or secured on around the fitting. Barbed
fittings are hard on hose. Let fuel get up under the inside liner of the
hose and now it can flake. Since all your fuel line and oil line is
supposed to be in fire sleeve how do you check all these hoses without
dismantling them? 91 oct. with ethanol can be hard on some hose because
the ethanol is a drier. Hose inside a tight cowl goes through a lot of
heating and cooling cycles. Not all hose is created equal. I have found
many with reduced radius hose because of heat shield applications or too
tight of a bend. This list can go on and on. Rotax hose change schedule
may be a little conservative, but because they can't control all t!
he above variables it's that way and no owner can predict a hose
failure or give every spec on every hose on their engine. There are a
few short cuts that could be made to the parts list and price, but we
all should have known flying wasn't an in-expensive sport nor a safe one
if we ignore many safe guards along the way. Too many obituary's and
forced landings to show otherwise.
So the bottom line is which side of the fence do we decide to fall on?
It's certainly your choice, but remember your not making that decision
for yourself, but your family and friends whether they fly with you or
not.
Turn the situation around. If it was your parent, your wife or your
son doing something that may cause their early demise cripple you for
life, wipe out a lot of savings because of damage, liability to friends,
neighbors or other civilians what advice would you give? How would you
feel and get along without them. tell you're wife you're going to negate
some safety maint. and it could possibly cause your early demise and get
her opinion.
Doing 30 annuals a year on LSA aircraft I have seen a lot and just
when I think I have seen it all something new pops up either owner
caused (most common from act or omission) or something odd just because
it was an aircraft.
I will tell you as a 30 yr. firefighter going to help and rescue
thousands of people the one thing they all had in common was this
saying: "Wow, that never happened before". Always a first time.
I have posted numerous pictures of bad hoses on other sites over the
last 2 years that should be enough for most to see hose health and
failures is not an exact science and that at times the guy who said
they'll last ten years can be wrong as many times as he may be right.
I've done well over 40+ hose changes and seen first hand. Anyone else
here done that many that can shed some light?
I still dislike the cost, but I knew it when I started flying it
wasn't my cheapest sport.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396857#396857<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396857#396857>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List<http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 3
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| Subject: | putting new 532 into service |
I am putting a "New" never ran 532 into service.
Anyone have any recommendations ?
- Have heard that the wrist pin bearings should be changed to the cage-less style.
- Heard that the water pump seals will be ok with orange antifreeze.
Anyone with knowledge from back then is welcome to comment.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396909#396909
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: putting new 532 into service |
If an engine has sat that many years and not run you may find you have leaks after
start up. The seals get dry and rotted and bearings may have an issue. Experienced
people would say take it apart and replace gaskets and "O" rings and
bearings. That way when you start you won't have to worry about leaks or damage.
If gaskets or parts leak you could seize a piston and score a good cylinder.
If it's new I'm sure you would like to keep it that way and have a nice long service
life out of it.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396946#396946
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