Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Erratic voltage output (paul)
2. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Erratic voltage output (FLYaDIVE)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Erratic voltage output |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=
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Erratic voltage output |
*Doug:*
*
*
*You explained only half of the wiring system. Here are some basic rules
for the Capacitor (CAP):*
- *You want to vibration dampen the mounting of the capacitor; Vibration
damages the capacitor*
- *You want to mount the Cap Up-Side Down - This keeps dirt, oil and
water from building on the top which can short out the terminals (High
Resistance Short) but remember high resistance means almost nothing to the
voltage buildup/stored in the cap.*
- *You want a tantalum electrolytic capacitor*
- *You want to keep the capacitor close to the voltage regulator (ACU)
(Alternator Control Unit), keeping the leads SHORT.*
- *You want to keep the leads short - That means both the positive and
negative leads.*
*Now, when you say "Firewall Buss" and associate it with the Ground - I'm
guessing here you are saying that you have a junction block for BOTH the
Positive and Negative (Ground). Well that is good and is acceptable. But,
is the Firewall grounded to the junction block? You should have two (2)
ground points one to port and starboard on the firewall, usually near the
engine mounts. *
*
*
*When you say you are using the Cylinder as a Ground point - - That is very
questionable. Pick a stud on the engine BLOCK. There is too much
vibration, heat and expansion & contraction for that to be a good grounding
point. Use TWO (2) points on the engine for ground points. Run each to
the port and starboard sides of the firewall. Make sure the engine is
grounded to the engine mount. TAKE RESISTANCE READINGS. All the readings
should be ZERO (0) ohms. NONE of your wire runs are long enough to have
any circuit resistance. If you do then your wires, harness, lugs, crimps
or connections are BAD. There is no getting around this - You MUST take
resistance readings at the LOWEST scale available on the BEST ohm meter you
can borrow. Check out every single wire length and then to ground to find
any problems.*
*
*
*You mention a junction block at the battery which is located
behind passenger the seat. Are you using Internal Star Washers on ALL
these connections? Not split ring washers. Here also check your
Resistance.*
*
*
*Are all stacked ring lugs - Stacked in the Locking Direction and topped
off with a internal star washer?*
*
*
*You are speaking of corrosion and oxidation as two different things - They
are NOT! The smallest amount of "contamination" will cause resistance and
that will cause current drops. Current drops cause voltage fluctuation.*
*
*
*After you get done with all the cleaning and resistance checks and
re-assembly - You should coat the terminals. You can coat them with
chromate paint, primer paint, top coat paint, dielectric grease (good in
many areas but will collect dirt & dust). This works as a corrosion
protection and as witness marks.*
*
*
*Now for the bad news - I'm learning about Rotax engines and I do not think
your problem is external [except for the ground point on the cylinder -
change that]. I'm thinking more to the engine and the internal setup and
workings of the alternator/generator. Not easy access.*
Address each of the areas as mentioned and get back to us. It is NOT a
difficult problem. It is just difficult to address via emails.
*Barry*
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:07 AM, MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So, my troubleshooting saga continues. The first thing I did was run an
> 18ga ground wire from the regulator body to the negative terminal of the
> capacitor which then goes to the firewall buss bar. When this did not
> solve the erratic output issue I replaced the regulator. Neither of these
> steps helped the problem.
>
> My engine ground lead is an 8ga wire running from a lug on the top of the
> right rear cylinder to the ground lead on the firewall buss. From the
> firewall buss, both the positive and negative leads are 8ga wire and go to
> my main buss which is mounted behind the instrument panel. From the main
> buss the positive and negative leads are 8ga and run down the passenger
> side of the airframe to the battery which is located behind the passenger
> seat. At the battery the ground wire attaches to an airframe ground point
> on the battery mount frame then through an 8ga wire to the negative post.
> The positive lead goes to the master solenoid and then to the positive post
> of the battery (all 8ga). As per Roger's suggestion, I have been pulling
> each of these main power leads one terminal at a time and thoroughly
> cleaning the connections. So far I have gotten to the main buss and
> firewall buss but still need to clean the connections at the battery.
> While I have found some oxidization, I have thus far found no corrosion
> which could be causing my erratic output issue.
>
> Today after work I will pull the belly pan off of the plane and clean all
> of the connections at the battery. I also want to pull the connections of
> the charge lead from the voltage regulator to the ALT circuit breaker and
> main buss to verify they are okay. So far , however, I'm not seeing
> anything that could be the source of my problem. My CH-701 is almost three
> years old and has just shy of 200 hours on it. This voltage issue is has
> come on gradually over the last few months as the output has been stable
> until I noticed the needle gyrations in about March when my flying hours
> began to pick up.
>
> One other thing I am going to try is a new capacitor. Lockwood sells an
> aftermarket 22000MF cap for $35.00 so I figured I may as well try it. My
> capacitor is about ten years old with an unknown history so it is possible
> that is has started to go bad. I also might try a different ground wire
> location on the engine. Perhaps the cylinder head is not an ideal ground
> location.
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Doug M
> CH-701 from scratch
> NW Ontario, Canada
>
> Time: 11:10:19 PM PST US
> From: "Paul Grimstad" <paul@controlapproach.com>
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Erratic voltage output
>
> We have been experiencing wild fluctuations on the amperage meter, running
> a
> 912uls with Dynon 180 EFIS engine monitor. The spikes range from +5 to -6.
> Voltage is also high (high 13's), but then it seems to settle down after
> takeoff. I thought the high voltage maybe because we just installed a new
> battery.
>
> We also just installed a new voltage regulator and when we grounded the
> plane and took a look at the condition we found the two power leads going
> into the regulator were completely melted and the heat was starting to melt
> the plastic mounting socket on the Ducati voltage regulator. We replaced
> the
> spade connectors on the main power leads and replaced the wiring socket
> plug-in connector as well.
>
> We had heard that the Rotax engine electronic system is very sensitive to
> the requirement of the ground connection, so additionally we ran a 10ga
> copper wire from the base lug on the voltage regulator to the negative
> terminal connecting stud at the battery/airframe. This has not solved the
> problem. I flew 7hours last weekend and near the end of the flight time, I
> noticed the amp gauge still jumping up and down.
>
> I have spoken with several knowledgeable Rotax guys and both asked me if I
> ran the ground from the base of the voltage regulator directly to the
> engine
> block?
>
> So, this afternoon I removed the wire socket plug connector and inspected
> the wire ends and crimped connectors. There was no sign of heat damage, so
> I
> reconnected the primary connection plug. I made up another ground wire with
> soldered wire ends and waterproof shrink tubing. I then installed the new
> ground wire from the mounting bolt on the base of the voltage regulator
> directly to the engine block. Tomorrow I will run the engine and see if the
> problem is solved.
>
> Hope this helps, I will let you know how it goes.
>
> Paul Grimstad,
>
> Team RV12
>
> Portland, OR
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|