---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/18/13: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Erratic voltage output (paul) 2. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Erratic voltage output (FLYaDIVE) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Erratic voltage output From: paul Qm9iICYgT3RoZXJzLMKgCkkgY291bGQgbm90IGFncmVlIG1vcmUsIHdpdGggeW91ciBjb21tZW50 IGFib3V0IGxvdXN5IGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gZGVzaWduLgpCeSBhbGwgbWVhbnMgY2hlY2sgdGhvc2Ug Y29ubmVjdGlvbnMuwqAKVXBkYXRlIG9uIHRoZSBpbnN0YWxsYXRpb24gb2YgYSAxMGdhLiBncm91 bmQgd2lyZS4gwqBJwqB0aGluayB0aGUgZ3JvdW5kaW5nIHdpcmUgYmFjayB0byB0aGUgZW5naW5l IGJsb2NrIGhhcyBzb2x2ZWQgdGhlIGVycmF0aWMgYW1wIG1ldGVyIGlzc3VlLiDCoEkgd2FybWVk IHVwIHRoZSA5MTJ1bHMgYW5kIHJhbiB0aGUgcnBtJ3MgdG8gNGsuIEl0IG5vIGxvbmdlciBzcGlr 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wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4g aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbgpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQoKCg= ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:00:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Erratic voltage output From: FLYaDIVE *Doug:* * * *You explained only half of the wiring system. Here are some basic rules for the Capacitor (CAP):* - *You want to vibration dampen the mounting of the capacitor; Vibration damages the capacitor* - *You want to mount the Cap Up-Side Down - This keeps dirt, oil and water from building on the top which can short out the terminals (High Resistance Short) but remember high resistance means almost nothing to the voltage buildup/stored in the cap.* - *You want a tantalum electrolytic capacitor* - *You want to keep the capacitor close to the voltage regulator (ACU) (Alternator Control Unit), keeping the leads SHORT.* - *You want to keep the leads short - That means both the positive and negative leads.* *Now, when you say "Firewall Buss" and associate it with the Ground - I'm guessing here you are saying that you have a junction block for BOTH the Positive and Negative (Ground). Well that is good and is acceptable. But, is the Firewall grounded to the junction block? You should have two (2) ground points one to port and starboard on the firewall, usually near the engine mounts. * * * *When you say you are using the Cylinder as a Ground point - - That is very questionable. Pick a stud on the engine BLOCK. There is too much vibration, heat and expansion & contraction for that to be a good grounding point. Use TWO (2) points on the engine for ground points. Run each to the port and starboard sides of the firewall. Make sure the engine is grounded to the engine mount. TAKE RESISTANCE READINGS. All the readings should be ZERO (0) ohms. NONE of your wire runs are long enough to have any circuit resistance. If you do then your wires, harness, lugs, crimps or connections are BAD. There is no getting around this - You MUST take resistance readings at the LOWEST scale available on the BEST ohm meter you can borrow. Check out every single wire length and then to ground to find any problems.* * * *You mention a junction block at the battery which is located behind passenger the seat. Are you using Internal Star Washers on ALL these connections? Not split ring washers. Here also check your Resistance.* * * *Are all stacked ring lugs - Stacked in the Locking Direction and topped off with a internal star washer?* * * *You are speaking of corrosion and oxidation as two different things - They are NOT! The smallest amount of "contamination" will cause resistance and that will cause current drops. Current drops cause voltage fluctuation.* * * *After you get done with all the cleaning and resistance checks and re-assembly - You should coat the terminals. You can coat them with chromate paint, primer paint, top coat paint, dielectric grease (good in many areas but will collect dirt & dust). This works as a corrosion protection and as witness marks.* * * *Now for the bad news - I'm learning about Rotax engines and I do not think your problem is external [except for the ground point on the cylinder - change that]. I'm thinking more to the engine and the internal setup and workings of the alternator/generator. Not easy access.* Address each of the areas as mentioned and get back to us. It is NOT a difficult problem. It is just difficult to address via emails. *Barry* On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:07 AM, MacDonald Doug wrote: > So, my troubleshooting saga continues. The first thing I did was run an > 18ga ground wire from the regulator body to the negative terminal of the > capacitor which then goes to the firewall buss bar. When this did not > solve the erratic output issue I replaced the regulator. Neither of these > steps helped the problem. > > My engine ground lead is an 8ga wire running from a lug on the top of the > right rear cylinder to the ground lead on the firewall buss. From the > firewall buss, both the positive and negative leads are 8ga wire and go to > my main buss which is mounted behind the instrument panel. From the main > buss the positive and negative leads are 8ga and run down the passenger > side of the airframe to the battery which is located behind the passenger > seat. At the battery the ground wire attaches to an airframe ground point > on the battery mount frame then through an 8ga wire to the negative post. > The positive lead goes to the master solenoid and then to the positive post > of the battery (all 8ga). As per Roger's suggestion, I have been pulling > each of these main power leads one terminal at a time and thoroughly > cleaning the connections. So far I have gotten to the main buss and > firewall buss but still need to clean the connections at the battery. > While I have found some oxidization, I have thus far found no corrosion > which could be causing my erratic output issue. > > Today after work I will pull the belly pan off of the plane and clean all > of the connections at the battery. I also want to pull the connections of > the charge lead from the voltage regulator to the ALT circuit breaker and > main buss to verify they are okay. So far , however, I'm not seeing > anything that could be the source of my problem. My CH-701 is almost three > years old and has just shy of 200 hours on it. This voltage issue is has > come on gradually over the last few months as the output has been stable > until I noticed the needle gyrations in about March when my flying hours > began to pick up. > > One other thing I am going to try is a new capacitor. Lockwood sells an > aftermarket 22000MF cap for $35.00 so I figured I may as well try it. My > capacitor is about ten years old with an unknown history so it is possible > that is has started to go bad. I also might try a different ground wire > location on the engine. Perhaps the cylinder head is not an ideal ground > location. > > Any other suggestions? > > Doug M > CH-701 from scratch > NW Ontario, Canada > > Time: 11:10:19 PM PST US > From: "Paul Grimstad" > Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Erratic voltage output > > We have been experiencing wild fluctuations on the amperage meter, running > a > 912uls with Dynon 180 EFIS engine monitor. The spikes range from +5 to -6. > Voltage is also high (high 13's), but then it seems to settle down after > takeoff. I thought the high voltage maybe because we just installed a new > battery. > > We also just installed a new voltage regulator and when we grounded the > plane and took a look at the condition we found the two power leads going > into the regulator were completely melted and the heat was starting to melt > the plastic mounting socket on the Ducati voltage regulator. We replaced > the > spade connectors on the main power leads and replaced the wiring socket > plug-in connector as well. > > We had heard that the Rotax engine electronic system is very sensitive to > the requirement of the ground connection, so additionally we ran a 10ga > copper wire from the base lug on the voltage regulator to the negative > terminal connecting stud at the battery/airframe. This has not solved the > problem. I flew 7hours last weekend and near the end of the flight time, I > noticed the amp gauge still jumping up and down. > > I have spoken with several knowledgeable Rotax guys and both asked me if I > ran the ground from the base of the voltage regulator directly to the > engine > block? > > So, this afternoon I removed the wire socket plug connector and inspected > the wire ends and crimped connectors. There was no sign of heat damage, so > I > reconnected the primary connection plug. I made up another ground wire with > soldered wire ends and waterproof shrink tubing. I then installed the new > ground wire from the mounting bolt on the base of the voltage regulator > directly to the engine block. Tomorrow I will run the engine and see if the > problem is solved. > > Hope this helps, I will let you know how it goes. > > Paul Grimstad, > > Team RV12 > > Portland, OR > > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.