Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:32 AM - Re: Erratic voltage output (FLYaDIVE)
2. 10:21 AM - Re: Erratic voltage output (rayj)
3. 02:46 PM - Daul Mags on the 914 (Alan Carter)
4. 04:08 PM - Re: Daul Mags on the 914 (FLYaDIVE)
5. 04:23 PM - Re: Daul Mags on the 914 (Alan Carter)
6. 05:58 PM - Re: Daul Mags on the 914 (ploucandco)
7. 09:08 PM - Re: Erratic voltage output (paul)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Erratic voltage output |
1. Paul:
I just read your post and something caught my eye: "I made up another
ground wire with soldered wire ends and waterproof shrink tubing."
You should NOT solder the wire ends. You should ONLY CRIMP them.
Soldering creates what is know as a HARDPOINT and causes the wire to fail
due to vibration, right at the END point of the solder to wire connection.
Now, to contradict what I just said: I have a method of soldering that is
Perfectly Acceptable. The steps are:
1. Clean the wire
2. CRIMP on the lug
3. Using SILVER SOLDER - Solder ONLY - ONLY - ONLY - The END of the wire
next to the ring lug. DO NOT keep the heat on the wire for a long time.
Only enough time to get a flow of solder between the wire and the lug.
If
you apply too much heat and too much time the solder will WICK down the
wire and create a HARDPOINT.
4. By doing it my way you create a GREAT Mechanical and Electrical
connection.
5. After soldering the connection CLEAN the connection with alcohol to
remove any flux.
6. I have been doing this for years and NEVER had a failure either
mechanically or electrically.
ALSO:
- Do NOT use SPADE crimp on connectors. Use RING crimp on connectors.
- Why? #1 they are NOT approved via AC 43-13. #2 They have a built in
design failure point... the SPADE!
ALSO #2:
1. Your statement: "so additionally we ran a 10ga copper wire from the
base lug on the voltage regulator to the negative terminal connecting st
ud
at the battery/airframe. " You also have to run that SAME wire to the
airframe [Airframe Ground].
2. Do not rely on a single ground point to do everything.
I just posted an in depth How To with Explanations. Take the time to read
and understand what I wrote. If you have questions PLEASE post them, I
will be happy to explain.
*Barry*
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 2:09 AM, Paul Grimstad <paul@controlapproach.com>wr
ote:
> We have been experiencing wild fluctuations on the amperage meter, runnin
g
> a 912uls with Dynon 180 EFIS engine monitor. The spikes range from +5 to
> -6. Voltage is also high (high 13=92s), but then it seems to settle down
> after takeoff. I thought the high voltage maybe because we just installed
a
> new battery.****
>
> We also just installed a new voltage regulator and when we grounded the
> plane and took a look at the condition we found the two power leads going
> into the regulator were completely melted and the heat was starting to me
lt
> the plastic mounting socket on the Ducati voltage regulator. We replaced
> the spade connectors on the main power leads and replaced the wiring sock
et
> plug-in connector as well. ****
>
> We had heard that the Rotax engine electronic system is very sensitive to
> the requirement of the ground connection, so additionally we ran a 10ga
> copper wire from the base lug on the voltage regulator to the negative
> terminal connecting stud at the battery/airframe. This has not solved the
> problem. I flew 7hours last weekend and near the end of the flight time,
I
> noticed the amp gauge still jumping up and down.****
>
> I have spoken with several knowledgeable Rotax guys and both asked me if
I
> ran the ground from the base of the voltage regulator directly to the
> engine block?****
>
> So, this afternoon I removed the wire socket plug connector and inspected
> the wire ends and crimped connectors. There was no sign of heat damage, s
o
> I reconnected the primary connection plug. I made up another ground wire
> with soldered wire ends and waterproof shrink tubing. I then installed th
e
> new ground wire from the mounting bolt on the base of the voltage regulat
or
> directly to the engine block. Tomorrow I will run the engine and see if t
he
> problem is solved.****
>
> Hope this helps, I will let you know how it goes.****
>
> Paul Grimstad,****
>
> Team RV12****
>
> Portland, OR ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 15, 2013 1:25 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: Erratic voltage output****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Doug****
>
> You stated you have no loose contacts, you could have a poor contact. Tw
o
> years ago I had an intermittent charging problem that took two day to
> trace. It was in an in-line fuse holder, the rubber coated ones that take
> ATC fuses. The fuse looked fairly normal but when I cut the holder open i
t
> was corroded and burnt. Replaced problem gone.****
>
> Carl****
>
> ----- Original Message ----- ****
>
> *From:* MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com> ****
>
> *To:* rotax list <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com> ****
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 14, 2013 10:44 AM****
>
> *Subject:* RotaxEngines-List: Erratic voltage output****
>
> ** **
>
> I'm having an erratic voltage output problem on my 912UL powered CH-701.
>
> To try and fix the problem I have replaced the voltage regulator and
> verified I have no loose connections in the electrical system. Even with
a
> new regulator I am still getting the same voltage spikes when at full
> power. At idle and during run-up the voltage reading on my analog VDO
> voltmeter is rock solid. It indicates about 14 volts once up off of idle
> power and my digital voltmeter show about 13.6 Volts. Once I apply takeo
ff
> power the analog voltmeter needle starts to vibrate wildly plus and minus
> about 1-2 volts and the digital voltmeter becomes unstable. If I am flyi
ng
> with a light electrical load, the digital voltmeter tops out at just over
> 14 volts but drifts around as low as 13.7. If I put on my nav and strobe
> lights the voltage drops to 13.3-13.6 range but the needle on the analog
> meter continues to vibrate the same.
>
> The only other components (beside the regulator) in the electrical system
> I can think of which might be causing the voltage spikes are the capacito
r
> or a problem with the actual alternator coils. I thought the problem may
> have been a bad analog gauge but given that the digital readings are also
> erratic I believe it to be a legitimate issue and not simply a display
> problem.
>
> I'm pretty good at chasing electrons but this issue has me stumped.
> Anyone have any ideas what could be causing my erratic voltage output?
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701, Northwestern Ontario****
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
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>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Erratic voltage output |
Greetings Paul,
If you want GOOD advice and information on all things
aviationelectrical/electronic, check out http://www.aeroelectric.com/
and the aeroelectric-list@matronics.com, right here on Matt's server.
No affiliation, just a long time subscriber.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 06/19/2013 11:32 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
> 1. Paul:
>
>
> I just read your post and something caught my eye: "I made up another
> ground wire with soldered wire ends and waterproof shrink tubing."
>
> You should NOT solder the wire ends. You should ONLY CRIMP them.
> Soldering creates what is know as a HARDPOINT and causes the wire to
> fail due to vibration, right at the END point of the solder to wire
> connection.
>
> Now, to contradict what I just said: I have a method of soldering
> that is Perfectly Acceptable. The steps are:
>
> 1. Clean the wire
> 2. CRIMP on the lug
> 3. Using SILVER SOLDER - Solder ONLY - ONLY - ONLY - The END of the
> wire next to the ring lug. DO NOT keep the heat on the wire for a
> long time. Only enough time to get a flow of solder between the
> wire and the lug. If you apply too much heat and too much time
> the solder will WICK down the wire and create a HARDPOINT.
> 4. By doing it my way you create a GREAT Mechanical and Electrical
> connection.
> 5. After soldering the connection CLEAN the connection with alcohol
> to remove any flux.
> 6. I have been doing this for years and NEVER had a failure either
> mechanically or electrically.
>
> ALSO:
>
> * Do NOT use SPADE crimp on connectors. Use RING crimp on connectors.
> * Why? #1 they are NOT approved via AC 43-13. #2 They have a built
> in design failure point... the SPADE!
>
> ALSO #2:
>
> 1. Your statement: "so additionally we ran a 10ga copper wire from
> the base lug on the voltage regulator to the negative terminal
> connecting stud at the battery/airframe. " You also have to run
> that SAME wire to the airframe [Airframe Ground].
> 2. Do not rely on a single ground point to do everything.
>
> I just posted an in depth How To with Explanations. Take the time to
> read and understand what I wrote. If you have questions PLEASE post
> them, I will be happy to explain.
>
> *Barry*
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 2:09 AM, Paul Grimstad
> <paul@controlapproach.com <mailto:paul@controlapproach.com>> wrote:
>
> We have been experiencing wild fluctuations on the amperage meter,
> running a 912uls with Dynon 180 EFIS engine monitor. The spikes
> range from +5 to -6. Voltage is also high (high 13's), but then it
> seems to settle down after takeoff. I thought the high voltage
> maybe because we just installed a new battery.
>
> We also just installed a new voltage regulator and when we
> grounded the plane and took a look at the condition we found the
> two power leads going into the regulator were completely melted
> and the heat was starting to melt the plastic mounting socket on
> the Ducati voltage regulator. We replaced the spade connectors on
> the main power leads and replaced the wiring socket plug-in
> connector as well.
>
> We had heard that the Rotax engine electronic system is very
> sensitive to the requirement of the ground connection, so
> additionally we ran a 10ga copper wire from the base lug on the
> voltage regulator to the negative terminal connecting stud at the
> battery/airframe. This has not solved the problem. I flew 7hours
> last weekend and near the end of the flight time, I noticed the
> amp gauge still jumping up and down.
>
> I have spoken with several knowledgeable Rotax guys and both asked
> me if I ran the ground from the base of the voltage regulator
> directly to the engine block?
>
> So, this afternoon I removed the wire socket plug connector and
> inspected the wire ends and crimped connectors. There was no sign
> of heat damage, so I reconnected the primary connection plug. I
> made up another ground wire with soldered wire ends and waterproof
> shrink tubing. I then installed the new ground wire from the
> mounting bolt on the base of the voltage regulator directly to the
> engine block. Tomorrow I will run the engine and see if the
> problem is solved.
>
> Hope this helps, I will let you know how it goes.
>
> Paul Grimstad,
>
> Team RV12
>
> Portland, OR
>
> *From:*owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf
> Of *Carl
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 15, 2013 1:25 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: Erratic voltage output
>
> Hi Doug
>
> You stated you have no loose contacts, you could have a poor
> contact. Two years ago I had an intermittent charging problem
> that took two day to trace. It was in an in-line fuse holder, the
> rubber coated ones that take ATC fuses. The fuse looked fairly
> normal but when I cut the holder open it was corroded and burnt.
> Replaced problem gone.
>
> Carl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:*MacDonald Doug <mailto:dougsnash@yahoo.com>
>
> *To:*rotax list <mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, June 14, 2013 10:44 AM
>
> *Subject:*RotaxEngines-List: Erratic voltage output
>
> I'm having an erratic voltage output problem on my 912UL
> powered CH-701.
>
> To try and fix the problem I have replaced the voltage
> regulator and verified I have no loose connections in the
> electrical system. Even with a new regulator I am still
> getting the same voltage spikes when at full power. At idle
> and during run-up the voltage reading on my analog VDO
> voltmeter is rock solid. It indicates about 14 volts once up
> off of idle power and my digital voltmeter show about 13.6
> Volts. Once I apply takeoff power the analog voltmeter needle
> starts to vibrate wildly plus and minus about 1-2 volts and
> the digital voltmeter becomes unstable. If I am flying with a
> light electrical load, the digital voltmeter tops out at just
> over 14 volts but drifts around as low as 13.7. If I put on
> my nav and strobe lights the voltage drops to 13.3-13.6 range
> but the needle on the analog meter continues to vibrate the same.
>
> The only other components (beside the regulator) in the
> electrical system I can think of which might be causing the
> voltage spikes are the capacitor or a problem with the actual
> alternator coils. I thought the problem may have been a bad
> analog gauge but given that the digital readings are also
> erratic I believe it to be a legitimate issue and not simply a
> display problem.
>
> I'm pretty good at chasing electrons but this issue has me
> stumped. Anyone have any ideas what could be causing my
> erratic voltage output?
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701, Northwestern Ontario
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Daul Mags on the 914 |
Hello All.
I have just replace a mag HT coil on my 914, simple job, but a ridiculous job to
do it took my a day because you can not get at the nuts and bolts.
However all is well now, I have equal drops of about 280to300 on each .
I can understand the more efficient burning on two hence the extra 300 rpm.
But when run on either the left or right mag the engine is not as smooth as when
on two. WHY??
A car has only one set of plugs and that runs smooth, So at 4000rpm on two smooth
3710 rpms on one not as smooth ??
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403012#403012
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| Subject: | Re: Daul Mags on the 914 |
Alen:
The simple answers are:
- When you adjust the carb it is adjusted for the spark available. If
you had only one spark plug you would adjust the carb for the best run with
that one plug. Since you have two spark plugs the burn is better - BUT -
You need the two plugs.
- Spark Plug Location - When you are talking real estate there are three
things that matter - Location - Location - Location. When running on ONE
plug in a dual plug system, it is NOT in the best location to give the best
spark/burn. A car puts the plug in the optimum location for spark and
burn.
- Most aircraft engines sacrifice spark plug location for
Safety/REDUNDANCY.
*Barry*
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 5:45 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>wrote:
> alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
> Hello All.
> I have just replace a mag HT coil on my 914, simple job, but a ridiculous
> job to do it took my a day because you can not get at the nuts and bolts.
> However all is well now, I have equal drops of about 280to300 on each .
> I can understand the more efficient burning on two hence the extra 300 rpm.
> But when run on either the left or right mag the engine is not as smooth
> as when on two. WHY??
> A car has only one set of plugs and that runs smooth, So at 4000rpm on
> two smooth 3710 rpms on one not as smooth ??
>
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403012#403012
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Daul Mags on the 914 |
Thank you Barry.
All of that seems to make sense, well it does make sense, i am just surprised the
difference in makes, as its about the same roughness on each mag, and as you
say much smoother on two.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403015#403015
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| Subject: | Re: Daul Mags on the 914 |
Alan, what were your mag drop figures before the HT coil replacement? Also, did
you clearly see on the spark plugs (different colors) that you had an issue with
an HT coil?
Thanks, Jacques.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403016#403016
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| Subject: | Re: Erratic voltage output |
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