Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:27 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/26/13 (Stan Tew)
2. 10:32 AM - Running 582 Engines LOP (Joe & Jan Connell)
3. 11:42 AM - Re: Running 582 Engines LOP (Guy Buchanan)
4. 02:23 PM - Re: Running 582 Engines LOP (george may)
5. 03:39 PM - Re: 912uls hard starting (george may)
6. 09:47 PM - Re: 912uls hard starting (Richard Girard)
7. 11:31 PM - Re: 912uls hard starting (Roger Lee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/26/13 |
Bob,=0A=0A2 strokes run on a very fine line between "just right" and "too l
ean". When the mixture gets too lean the cylinder is subject to pre-ignitio
n. This is disastrous. If you need proof I can post a photo of a 582 piston
with a .5 in hole in the center of the piston crown.=0A=0A=0A-=0ASTAN 2
=0AN29TD=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: RotaxEngines-
List Digest Server <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>=0ATo: RotaxEngines-Lis
t Digest List <rotaxengines-list-digest@matronics.com> =0ASent: Tuesday, Au
gust 27, 2013 2:00 AM=0ASubject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/26/1
3=0A =0A=0A*=0A=0A===================
=======0A- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive=0A
=0A=0AToday's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either
of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Diges
t formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlin
ked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain
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eneric text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. =0A=0AHTML Ver
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ion:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82
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l Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A==========
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- - - - - - - - RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive=0A- -
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- - - - - - - - - - Total Messages Posted Mon 08/26/13
: 2=0A- - - - - ------------------------------------------------
----------=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A----------------------=0A=0A-
- 1. 04:39 AM - Running 582 Engines LOP- (BobP)=0A- - 2. 07:52 A
M - Re: Running 582 Engines LOP- (Guy Buchanan)=0A=0A=0A=0A______________
__________________- Message 1- _____________________________________=0A
=0A=0ATime: 04:39:04 AM PST US=0ASubject: RotaxEngines-List: Running 582 En
gines LOP=0AFrom: "BobP" <matronics@panth.co.uk>=0A=0A=0AI have a Rotax 582
with a warp comp prop in a Pulsar. The engine has the oil injection=0Asyst
em fitted.=0A=0ABecause of the slippery Pulsar profile- (5000rpm and 90 k
nots at 12 litres/hour)=0AEGTs tend to nudge the maximum limit- when in f
ast cruise descent - because=0Aof the low load on the fast revving engine.
I prefer the keep the engine away=0Afrom red line limits, and can reduce EG
Ts by either throttling back even further=0Aso the engine is developing min
imal power, or by slowing the plane down and=0Aapplying flaps to make the p
lane more draggy. =0A=0ANeither of these options is ideal, and I wondered i
f it is possible to safely reduce=0AEGTs (at cruise power) by running the 5
82 engine- lean of peak (LOP) eg=0Aby using a hacman type device to weake
n the mixture. The normal cruise mix seems=0Afine (plugs noses mid to deep
brown) so I don't want to raise the carb needle=0Aand richen this setting.
=0A=0AAny thoughts/experience on running a 582 injected engine LOP apprecia
ted - good=0Aand bad.=0A=0AThanks=0A=0ABob P=0A=0A--------=0ABobP=0A=0A=0AR
ead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?
p=407485#407485=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 2-
_____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:52:41 AM PST US=0AFr
om: Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan@cox.net>=0ASubject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Run
ning 582 Engines LOP=0A=0AOn 8/26/2013 4:37 AM, BobP wrote:=0A> Neither of
these options is ideal, and I wondered if it is possible to safely=0Areduce
EGTs (at cruise power) by running the 582 engine- lean of peak (LOP) eg
=0Aby using a hacman type device to weaken the mixture. The normal cruise m
ix seems=0Afine (plugs noses mid to deep brown) so I don't want to raise th
e carb needle=0Aand richen this setting.=0A>- - =0A- - Well. As fa
r as I know there's no such thing as LOP for a 582. Or =0Aif there is, the
peak is well beyond what the engine will handle. So you =0Aalways live rich
of peak, but constantly bump up against it, since the =0AEGT limit gives y
ou best power and fuel economy. (That said, I have run =0Atoo lean by long
descent with a lean mixture through "peak" until the =0Aengine quit. The en
gine was at idle, however, so I never noticed an EGT =0A"peak".)=0A- -
Your idea of using a Hacman for EGT control is a good one, though. =0AI us
ed one all the time I had my 582 (4 years, 500 hours) and loved it. =0AI on
ly had to change mains a couple of times, in Utah and Idaho, when I =0Awas
spending a lot of time at altitude and wanted to "re-center" my =0Amixture
control. (My home port was at 1500'.) The Hacman gave me about =0A80F EGT r
ange, which seems small, but is quite useful. What Hacman will =0A/not /do
is give you enough control to go downhill any way you want. If =0Ayour main
s are set correctly you'll /always /be able to redline the EGT =0Agoing dow
n hill. You just have to get used to either very long or very =0Ashort or s
tepped descents. (There was another system on the market which =0Ascrewed t
he mid-range needles in and out that might have given more =0Acontrol. Don'
t know what happened to it.) I highly recommend the Hacman. =0A(Easy to ins
tall, too.)=0A=0AGuy Buchanan=0ARamona, CA=0AKitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp
=================
Message 2
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| Subject: | Running 582 Engines LOP |
I=99ve been doing a bit of reflecting about running Lean of Peak
(LOP) on Rotax 2-cycle engines.
Four-cycle engines have have an oil pump to distribute oil for
lubrication. In the two-cycle engine, it is the air/oil mixture that
provides the cylinder-to-piston lubrication. It would seem somewhat
risky to get excessively lean as this might lead to seized pistons. Can
someone qualify this issue a little more fully for me?
Thanks...
Joe Connell
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Running 582 Engines LOP
From: "BobP" <matronics@panth.co.uk>
I have a Rotax 582 with a warp comp prop in a Pulsar. The engine has the
oil injection
system fitted.
Because of the slippery Pulsar profile (5000rpm and 90 knots at 12
litres/hour)
EGTs tend to nudge the maximum limit when in fast cruise descent -
because
of the low load on the fast revving engine. I prefer the keep the engine
away
from red line limits, and can reduce EGTs by either throttling back even
further
so the engine is developing minimal power, or by slowing the plane down
and
applying flaps to make the plane more draggy.
Neither of these options is ideal, and I wondered if it is possible to
safely reduce
EGTs (at cruise power) by running the 582 engine lean of peak (LOP) eg
by using a hacman type device to weaken the mixture. The normal cruise
mix seems
fine (plugs noses mid to deep brown) so I don't want to raise the carb
needle
and richen this setting.
Any thoughts/experience on running a 582 injected engine LOP appreciated
- good
and bad.
Thanks
Bob P
--------
BobP
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Running 582 Engines LOP |
In a 2-cycle there's no cooling cycle and no oil bath on the back side
of the piston so max EGT's are much lower. (1250F versus 1600F) If you
seriously exceed the EGT limit on a 2-cycle you generally melt a hole in
the top of the piston which reduces your compression somewhat.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 8/27/2013 10:28 AM, Joe & Jan Connell wrote:
> Four-cycle engines have have an oil pump to distribute oil for
> lubrication. In the two-cycle engine, it is the air/oil mixture that
> provides the cylinder-to-piston lubrication. It would seem somewhat
> risky to get excessively lean as this might lead to seized pistons.
> Can someone qualify this issue a little more fully for me?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Running 582 Engines LOP |
Just wanted to check with the group before I begin my carb rebuilds. I hav
e a 912uls on a Zodiac 601XLB that has started to be hard starting =2C in f
act it will not start now unless I spray starting fluid into the air intake
. Only did it once to convince myself it was a fuel issue. the engine star
ted and would restart after an hour. However=2C if I leave the plane for a
week or so it will not start. The engine acts like it is not getting fuel.
I've pulled the carb bowls and all looks fine. Fuel in bowl and fuel is
about 1/2 inch from top. Engine has 450 hours without a carb rebuild. A
ny other ideas what it could be? All input appreciated ThanksGeorge
Message 5
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| Subject: | 912uls hard starting |
Sorry about the confusion in the title
From: gfmjr_20@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Running 582 Engines LOP
=0A
=0A
=0A
Just wanted to check with the group before I begin my carb rebuilds. I hav
e a 912uls on a Zodiac 601XLB that has started to be hard starting =2C in f
act it will not start now unless I spray starting fluid into the air intake
. Only did it once to convince myself it was a fuel issue. the engine star
ted and would restart after an hour. However=2C if I leave the plane for a
week or so it will not start. The engine acts like it is not getting fuel.
I've pulled the carb bowls and all looks fine. Fuel in bowl and fuel is
about 1/2 inch from top. Engine has 450 hours without a carb rebuild. A
ny other ideas what it could be? All input appreciated ThanksGeorge
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 912uls hard starting |
George, Do you have ignition modules p/n 966 726? These are a known problem
and give symptoms you describe. If you do have these part number ignition
modules, call Lockwood and ask to talk to Aaron.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 5:38 PM, george may <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry about the confusion in the title
>
> ------------------------------
> From: gfmjr_20@hotmail.com
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Running 582 Engines LOP
> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 17:19:08 -0400
>
>
> Just wanted to check with the group before I begin my carb rebuilds. I
> have a 912uls on a Zodiac 601XLB that has started to be hard starting , in
> fact it will not start now unless I spray starting fluid into the air
> intake. Only did it once to convince myself it was a fuel issue. the
> engine started and would restart after an hour. However, if I leave the
> plane for a week or so it will not start. The engine acts like it is not
> getting fuel. I've pulled the carb bowls and all looks fine. Fuel in bowl
> and fuel is about 1/2 inch from top. Engine has 450 hours without a
> carb rebuild. Any other ideas what it could be? All input appreciated
>
> Thanks
> George
>
> *
>
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--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 912uls hard starting |
1/2" below the rim of the carb bowl is way too low. Double check the float arm
height above the carb rim. It should be 10.5mm.
The carbs have to be off and upside down to check this. 450 hours is nothing, but
how old are they?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
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