---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/26/14: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:51 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights (Alan Carter) 2. 01:36 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights (Ivor Phillips) 3. 03:19 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights (David Joyce) 4. 05:42 AM - Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (Catz631@aol.com) 5. 06:05 AM - Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (Roger Lee) 6. 06:11 AM - Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (JohnF) 7. 06:16 AM - Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (JohnF) 8. 06:24 AM - Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (Richard Kelley) 9. 07:01 AM - Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (Pete Christensen) 10. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/24/14 (Richard Girard) 11. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (FLYaDIVE) 12. 10:44 AM - Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (William Daniell) 13. 11:07 AM - Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (JohnF) 14. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS (FLYaDIVE) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:42 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights From: "Alan Carter" Hello Ivor. Looks like Lydd is going to become more active know Manston is closed. I would like to fit an indicator the same as you have done, sounds a good idea, is there something you can drill and attach to the filler cap. Can you give some info on this. Regards. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423797#423797 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights From: Ivor Phillips Hi alan I drilled into the side of the plastic expansion bottle that Rotax supplied, I put her midway so the level would need to drop to minimum before the sensor triggered, I will try and turn up the type of float sensor I used from my records and let you no, It's a simple wiring job once you are through the firewall, Regards Ivor Sent from my iPad > On 26 May 2014, at 08:51, "Alan Carter" wrote: > > > Hello Ivor. > Looks like Lydd is going to become more active know Manston is closed. > I would like to fit an indicator the same as you have done, sounds a good idea, is there something you can drill and attach to the filler cap. > Can you give some info on this. > Regards. > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423797#423797 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:37 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights Alan, For my money it doesn't really matter what level the fluid is in the bottle as long as the level in the header tank is OK, and I assume you check that frequently as part of your preparation for flight. The bottle is just there to make any fluid pushed out by thermal expansion recoverable as I see it. Why add weight and complication? regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Mon, 26 May 2014 09:35:12 +0100 Ivor Phillips wrote: > > > Hi alan > I drilled into the side of the plastic expansion bottle >that Rotax supplied, I put her midway so the level would >need to drop to minimum before the sensor triggered, > I will try and turn up the type of float sensor I used >from my records and let you no, > It's a simple wiring job once you are through the >firewall, > Regards > Ivor > Sent from my iPad > >> On 26 May 2014, at 08:51, "Alan Carter" >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello Ivor. >> Looks like Lydd is going to become more active know >>Manston is closed. >> I would like to fit an indicator the same as you have >>done, sounds a good idea, is there something you can >>drill and attach to the filler cap. >> Can you give some info on this. >> Regards. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423797#423797 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >Un/Subscription, >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:16 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS I doubt seriously your uneven mag drop is caused by your carbs. It most likely is an ignition problem. I have dealt with similar problems with my old (mid 90's) 912 UL. During my last event I "bit the bullet" and bought new ignition wires and caps when I was having bad mag drops. This cured the problem. Now in my case the wires/caps were old and probably needed replacement anyway so I didn't feel too bad about it. I was able to save on the wire /plugs thru online vendors. I think if you clip the wires or search out a bad plug (bomb check them),you will find your problem. My opinion Dick Maddux Fox 4 912UL ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:28 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS From: "Roger Lee" All wires should have been trimmed. All plug gaps re-checked. I would do both of these first. Black sooty plugs under 3500 rpm can be very normal and can move to different plugs at times and is different for every engine. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423804#423804 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:45 AM PST US From: "JohnF" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS Dick, I agree with you. The carbs are not likely to be my mag drop problem. Prior to a lot of work during the annual condx inspection things were fine. Some thing I probably did is causing my problem, and I am at a loss for what it might be, so I am going back over everything I did to try to eliminate any remote possibility. Thanks for your input. John ----- Origin.al Message ----- From: Catz631@aol.com To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 6:40 AM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS I doubt seriously your uneven mag drop is caused by your carbs. It most l ikely is an ignition problem. I have dealt with similar problems with my ol d (mid 90's) 912 UL. During my last event I "bit the bullet" and bought new ignition wires and caps when I was having bad mag drops. This cured the problem. Now in my ca se the wires/caps were old and probably needed replacement anyway so I didn 't feel too bad about it. I was able to save on the wire /plugs thru online vendors. I think if you clip the wires or search out a bad plug (bomb check them) ,you will find your problem. My opinion Dick Maddux Fox 4 912UL --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protec tion is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:20 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS From: "JohnF" Thanks, Roger...have trimmed the A side, and doing the B side this morning and going over the carb balance even tho I doubt it is involved, but the mag drop was OK prior to a lot of work during the annual condx inspection, so I have to think it was something I did. I still may have to fly to Tuscon and drop it into your hands !!! John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423806#423806 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:01 AM PST US From: Richard Kelley Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS Please remove me for this list!!! Sent from my iPhone > On May 26, 2014, at 8:21 AM, "JohnF" wrote: > > Dick, > > I agree with you. The carbs are not likely to be my mag drop problem. Prio r to a lot of work during the annual condx inspection things were fine. Some thing I probably did is causing my problem, and I am at a loss for what it m ight be, so I am going back over everything I did to try to eliminate any re mote possibility. Thanks for your input. > > John > ----- Origin.al Message ----- > From: Catz631@aol.com > To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS > > I doubt seriously your uneven mag drop is caused by your carbs. It most li kely is an ignition problem. I have dealt with similar problems with my old ( mid 90's) 912 UL. > During my last event I "bit the bullet" and bought new ignition wires and c aps when I was having bad mag drops. This cured the problem. Now in my case t he wires/caps were old and probably needed replacement anyway so I didn't fe el too bad about it. I was able to save on the wire /plugs thru online vendo rs. > I think if you clip the wires or search out a bad plug (bomb check them), you will find your problem. > My opinion > Dick Maddux > Fox 4 > 912UL > > > ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List > ics.com > .matronics.com/contribution > > > > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus prote ction is active. > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS From: Pete Christensen Kelly, Go here. http://www.matronics.com/subscription/ > On May 26, 2014, at 8:23 AM, Richard Kelley wrote : > > Please remove me for this list!!! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 26, 2014, at 8:21 AM, "JohnF" wrote: >> >> Dick, >> >> I agree with you. The carbs are not likely to be my mag drop problem. Pri or to a lot of work during the annual condx inspection things were fine. Som ething I probably did is causing my problem, and I am at a loss for what it m ight be, so I am going back over everything I did to try to eliminate any re mote possibility. Thanks for your input. >> >> John >> ----- Origin.al Message ----- >> From: Catz631@aol.com >> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 6:40 AM >> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS >> >> I doubt seriously your uneven mag drop is caused by your carbs. It most l ikely is an ignition problem. I have dealt with similar problems with my old (mid 90's) 912 UL. >> During my last event I "bit the bullet" and bought new ignition wires and caps when I was having bad mag drops. This cured the problem. Now in my cas e the wires/caps were old and probably needed replacement anyway so I didn't feel too bad about it. I was able to save on the wire /plugs thru online ve ndors. >> I think if you clip the wires or search out a bad plug (bomb check them) ,you will find your problem. >> My opinion >> Dick Maddux >> Fox 4 >> 912UL >> >> >> ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List >> ics.com >> .matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus prot ection is active. >> > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/24/14 From: Richard Girard John, All the info regarding lengths of tubing and the part no. are in the IPC. You can use the part no. to get the ID of the tubing. Pegasus Racing has metric silicon radiator hose. Pricey, but less than Rotax, and lasts longer. Rick Girard do not archive On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 2:46 PM, John Goodings wrote: > > Subject: Re: Blue coolant tubing for Rotax 912S > From: John Goodings > > We need to replace the large thin-walled blue coolant tubing on our Rotax > 912S. I should be grateful if someone can tell me (a) the diameter; (b) > the length we need, (c) possible suppliers, and (d) a Canadian supplier if > that is possible. Our CH601HD is in Ottawa (Carp), and I have to order the > tubing from Toronto. All I can recall is that this tubing has a rather > special diameter, and is rather hard to find. Thanks for your help. > > John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa/Carp > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS From: FLYaDIVE John, Easy ways just don't work! Well, they do, but only for those people that won the lottery. In simple terms, even if you had a exhaust leak, it very we'll Would Not give you a Mag drop. Nor would an out of tune Carb. Nor would the point of running With or Without the cowling on. That logic would follow checking the air pressure in your tires for the Mag drop! IF the Mag drop was good on one Mag, you are STILL using the SAME Carb for the Good Mag as for the Bad Mag , no reason why it would change for the second Mag ... Do ya see the logic there? Next is the Exhaust System. If there was an Exhaust leak, it would depend where the leak was... An exhaust valve leak would leak on either Mag so No difference in Mag check with this scenario. If it was a pipe or muffler leaking it would again be the same leak no matter which Mag you were on, so No difference in Mag check with this scenario either. This is the way you go about checking out a Mag Drop Problem: 1 - Clean the plugs. 2 - TRIPLE check the Timing. 3 - Check the condition AND resistance of the spark plug wires. 4 - Did you ever DROP a spark plug? If so - Replace it, don't think about it, do it. OR, test it on a Pressure-Voltage Spark Plug checking station. Those are your ONLY options when it come to plugs. 5 - This is a bit more difficult - Check the Voltage coming out of your Mag. You will need a High Voltage Probe Volt Meter, not many people have them. 6 - Question: Do you get a Mag drop at BOTH low RPM and high RPM? If so, then go back to #1 and run through the steps... 1 thru 5. If it only happens at High RPM then there could be a voltage breakdown of a component and an overhaul is needed. Problem being - You have a Rotax and both Low and High are both High when you consider the small delta between the two ranges. SO... What Next? SWAP out the Mag with one of known GOOD working condition. These are your options. Go through the steps and I'm positive you will find the problem. Barry On Sunday, May 25, 2014, JohnF wrote: > > My hope of finding a easy fix to my mag drop problem faded when no exhaust > leaks were found.. bad mag drop with or without cowling on/off. > > Next effort will be to recheck carb balance in case that somehow got > screwed up. ('tho I don't really expect this is the problem, but everything > I can think of needs to be done !) > > Problem was on A side ignition, then switched to B side, and is staying on > the B side being the problem. Problem exists if mag run up is done at 3500 > or 4000, and same results if reading an MGL tach I have installed instead > of the Dynon D-180's tach.) > > Failing in this, I guess the only thing left to try is to replace plugs > and trim plug wires a bit on the remaining 4 plugs on which I have not done > this. > > /John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423779#423779 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS From: William Daniell John I had a similar problem, it was a bad connection in the bundle of wires that sits on top of the engine Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 8:11 AM, JohnF wrote: > Dick, > > I agree with you. The carbs are not likely to be my mag drop problem. > Prior to a lot of work during the annual condx inspection things were fine. > Something I probably did is causing my problem, and I am at a loss for what > it might be, so I am going back over everything I did to try to eliminate > any remote possibility. Thanks for your input. > > John > > ----- Origin.al Message ----- > *From:* Catz631@aol.com > *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, May 26, 2014 6:40 AM > *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS > > I doubt seriously your uneven mag drop is caused by your carbs. It most > likely is an ignition problem. I have dealt with similar problems with my > old (mid 90's) 912 UL. > During my last event I "bit the bullet" and bought new ignition wires and > caps when I was having bad mag drops. This cured the problem. Now in my > case the wires/caps were old and probably needed replacement anyway so I > didn't feel too bad about it. I was able to save on the wire /plugs thru > online vendors. > I think if you clip the wires or search out a bad plug (bomb check > them),you will find your problem. > My opinion > Dick Maddux > Fox 4 > 912UL > > * > > ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List > ics.com > .matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > ------------------------------ > > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirusprotection is active. > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:35 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS From: "JohnF" Progress on the mag drop ! Taking suggestions from you folks, I trimmed back the plug wires on the ignition side that I had not yet done. As expected, mag balance was perfect. As to exhaust leak...prior experience has shown me that a serious leak, one pipe 1/2 way out of the 'socket' on the muffler...definitely and repeatedly showed that mag drop was OK with the top cowling off, but bad with it one. An A&P and an experienced builder working with me saw this at least three times before I figured out what the problem was. Fixing the exhaust pipe into the muffler fixed everything. As to today....the mag drop, average of 10 'runs' is now only 14 rpm difference between A and B sides. I still am not happy with the drop, its 227 rpm drop on A side, and 241 rpm drop on B side. I have buttoned up the cowling and will fly tomorrow, weather permitting, and run the plane hard for about 30 minutes and see if that changes anything. My guess now is that the wire into the boot on cyl #4, bottom, was too far back in; trimming it as Roger and others suggested fixed the large difference in mag drops. My appreciation for all the help. John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423817#423817 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Uneven Mag Drop 912 ULS From: FLYaDIVE John, Easy ways just don't work! Well, they do, but only for those people that won the lottery. In simple terms, even if you had a exhaust leak, it very we'll Would Not give you a Mag drop. Nor would an out of tune Carb. Nor would the point of running With or Without the cowling on. That logic would follow checking the air pressure in your tires for the Mag drop! IF the Mag drop was good on one Mag, you are STILL using the SAME Carb for the Good Mag as for the Bad Mag , no reason why it would change for the second Mag ... Do ya see the logic there? Next is the Exhaust System. If there was an Exhaust leak, it would depend where the leak was... An exhaust valve leak would leak on either Mag so No difference in Mag check with this scenario. If it was a pipe or muffler leaking it would again be the same leak no matter which Mag you were on, so No difference in Mag check with this scenario either. This is the way you go about checking out a Mag Drop Problem: 1 - Clean the plugs. 2 - TRIPLE check the Timing. 3 - Check the condition AND resistance of the spark plug wires. 4 - Did you ever DROP a spark plug? If so - Replace it, don't think about it, do it. OR, test it on a Pressure-Voltage Spark Plug checking station. Those are your ONLY options when it come to plugs. 5 - This is a bit more difficult - Check the Voltage coming out of your Mag. You will need a High Voltage Probe Volt Meter, not many people have them. 6 - Question: Do you get a Mag drop at BOTH low RPM and high RPM? If so, then go back to #1 and run through the steps... 1 thru 5. If it only happens at High RPM then there could be a voltage breakdown of a component and an overhaul is needed. Problem being - You have a Rotax and both Low and High are both High when you consider the small delta between the two ranges. SO... What Next? SWAP out the Mag with one of known GOOD working condition. These are your options. Go through the steps and I'm positive you will find the problem. Barry On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 2:07 PM, JohnF wrote: > > Progress on the mag drop ! > > Taking suggestions from you folks, I trimmed back the plug wires on the > ignition side that I had not yet done. > > As expected, mag balance was perfect. > > As to exhaust leak...prior experience has shown me that a serious leak, > one pipe 1/2 way out of the 'socket' on the muffler...definitely and > repeatedly showed that mag drop was OK with the top cowling off, but bad > with it one. An A&P and an experienced builder working with me saw this at > least three times before I figured out what the problem was. Fixing the > exhaust pipe into the muffler fixed everything. > > As to today....the mag drop, average of 10 'runs' is now only 14 rpm > difference between A and B sides. I still am not happy with the drop, its > 227 rpm drop on A side, and 241 rpm drop on B side. I have buttoned up the > cowling and will fly tomorrow, weather permitting, and run the plane hard > for about 30 minutes and see if that changes anything. > > My guess now is that the wire into the boot on cyl #4, bottom, was too far > back in; trimming it as Roger and others suggested fixed the large > difference in mag drops. > > My appreciation for all the help. > > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423817#423817 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.