---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/02/14: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights (Richard Collings) 2. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:21 AM PST US From: "Richard Collings" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights Hi everyone. I think the experienced pilots amongst our community need to stop this right now and I don=99t class myself in that group. Imagine the situation, say on take off, your busy in the cockpit to say the least and you see the engine temp rise into the red, what do you do, you can=99t shut down, you must expedite a safe landing asap. If you have time before the engine seizes try to do an abbreviated circuit and radio your intention with a Pan call and pray you can get back down in one piece. I am sure other pilots will offer differing scenarios. The point is if on top of the considerable work load the pilot has, he now has to somehow manage boiling water and steam in the cabin, he isn=99t going to do it. Sorry for being blunt. Richard only 700ish hrs 75 on type From: Joel Milloway Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2014 2:40 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights Thats the whole point right :) On May 31, 2014, at 1:46 AM, Brian Davies wrote: When the fluid boils the cockpit could be filled with steam. That would certainly get your attention! Regards Brian Davies -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joel Milloway Sent: 31 May 2014 06:20 To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights --> What if the overflow bottle was mounted on the cockpit side of the firewall where it was visible at all times? On May 28, 2014, at 2:04 AM, Ivor Phillips wrote: --> I see what you are say David but in my case it works well, my Expansion bottle is set high in the centre of the firewall and has a positive head of pressure back to the filler cap, Twice I have had small leaks, one from a hose clip before changing to the spring clamp type and once from a bottom hose bleed nipple that I had fitted, Both times I was aware of the coolant loss long before it became critical, I take your point that with a burst hose it probably wouldn't react quickly enough but thats were my water temperature sender with voice activated Dynon shouting high temperature in my ears would get my complete attention, Regards ivor Sent from my iPad On 27 May 2014, at 14:58, "David Joyce" wrote: --> Ivor, It is not often I disagree with you, but I would guess that a leaking or burst hose will let fluid out and air out of/in to the radiator system without producing sufficient suction to empty out the overflow bottle, so that you could boil without your level sensor saying anything. On the other hand boiling the coolant is something that is very noticeable in air - you get blue fluid all over the screen - experienced when I was trying to do a 5 min full power climb to satisfy the LAA with one of my early model props.! Regards, David On Tue, 27 May 2014 10:41:43 +0100 Ivor Phillips wrote: --> I don't quite agree David, if unbeknown to you one of your hoses/ connections developed a leak when airborne you would be unaware until the level dropped below the pressure cap bottle, Once it had done so it would effectively stop circulating through the radiator and your temperature would start climbing upwards, The sensor is a couple of grams at most and IMO would give me a heads up long before it got critical, My expansion bottle is centre of the firewall as high as possible so cannot be seen without removing the top cowl, I of course visually check it but on a long flight it nice to know that nothing untoward is happening, For people interested in the sensor I used its a DE4 PPS 10 A01. Website http://www.deeter.co.uk/products/float-switch-liquid-level-sensors-o verview/40-series-horizontal-liquid-level-sensor-float-switch Regards Ivor Sent from my iPad On 26 May 2014, at 11:19, "David Joyce" wrote: --> Alan, For my money it doesn't really matter what level the fluid is in the bottle as long as the level in the header tank is OK, and I assume you check that frequently as part of your preparation for flight. The bottle is just there to make any fluid pushed out by thermal expansion recoverable as I see it. Why add weight and complication? regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Mon, 26 May 2014 09:35:12 +0100 Ivor Phillips wrote: --> Hi alan I drilled into the side of the plastic expansion bottle that Rotax supplied, I put her midway so the level would need to drop to minimum before the sensor triggered, I will try and turn up the type of float sensor I used from my records and let you no, It's a simple wiring job once you are through the firewall, Regards Ivor Sent from my iPad On 26 May 2014, at 08:51, "Alan Carter" wrote: --> Hello Ivor. Looks like Lydd is going to become more active know Manston is closed. I would like to fit an indicator the same as you have done, sounds a good idea, is there something you can drill and attach to the filler cap. Can you give some info on this. Regards. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423797#423797 Un/Subscription, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List Forums! Admin. Un/Subscription, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List Forums! Admin. ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.m &n - &nbs --> http://www.matronics.com/co================ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:47 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights Folks: I believe the 912 series engines are primarily oil cooled, with some water and air cooling to help. The engine can be flown at reduced power for some time after a complete loss of coolant without seizing. Before I sacrificed myself and my airplane, I'd fly to a safe landing area to fix the problem. john h MKIII Near - Burns Junction, Oregon From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Collings Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 6:18 AM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights Hi everyone. I think the experienced pilots amongst our community need to stop this right now and I don=99t class myself in that group. Imagine the situation, say on take off, your busy in the cockpit to say the least and you see the engine temp rise into the red, what do you do, you can=99t shut down, you must expedite a safe landing asap. If you have time before the engine seizes try to do an abbreviated circuit and radio your intention with a Pan call and pray you can get back down in one piece. I am sure other pilots will offer differing scenarios. The point is if on top of the considerable work load the pilot has, he now has to somehow manage boiling water and steam in the cabin, he isn=99t going to do it. Sorry for being blunt. Richard only 700ish hrs 75 on type From: Joel Milloway Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2014 2:40 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights Thats the whole point right :) On May 31, 2014, at 1:46 AM, Brian Davies wrote: When the fluid boils the cockpit could be filled with steam. That would certainly get your attention! Regards Brian Davies -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joel Milloway Sent: 31 May 2014 06:20 Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 914 Turbo Warning Lights --> What if the overflow bottle was mounted on the cockpit side of the firewall where it was visible at all times? On May 28, 2014, at 2:04 AM, Ivor Phillips wrote: --> I see what you are say David but in my case it works well, my Expansion bottle is set high in the centre of the firewall and has a positive head of pressure back to the filler cap, Twice I have had small leaks, one from a hose clip before changing to the spring clamp type and once from a bottom hose bleed nipple that I had fitted, Both times I was aware of the coolant loss long before it became critical, I take your point that with a burst hose it probably wouldn't react quickly enough but thats were my water temperature sender with voice activated Dynon shouting high temperature in my ears would get my complete attention, Regards ivor Sent from my iPad On 27 May 2014, at 14:58, "David Joyce" wrote: --> Ivor, It is not often I disagree with you, but I would guess that a leaking or burst hose will let fluid out and air out of/in to the radiator system without producing sufficient suction to empty out the overflow bottle, so that you could boil without your level sensor saying anything. On the other hand boiling the coolant is something that is very noticeable in air - you get blue fluid all over the screen - experienced when I was trying to do a 5 min full power climb to satisfy the LAA with one of my early model props.! Regards, David On Tue, 27 May 2014 10:41:43 +0100 Ivor Phillips wrote: --> I don't quite agree David, if unbeknown to you one of your hoses/ connections developed a leak when airborne you would be unaware until the level dropped below the pressure cap bottle, Once it had done so it would effectively stop circulating through the radiator and your temperature would start climbing upwards, The sensor is a couple of grams at most and IMO would give me a heads up long before it got critical, My expansion bottle is centre of the firewall as high as possible so cannot be seen without removing the top cowl, I of course visually check it but on a long flight it nice to know that nothing untoward is happening, For people interested in the sensor I used its a DE4 PPS 10 A01. Website http://www.deeter.co.uk/products/float-switch-liquid-level-sensors-o verview/40-series-horizontal-liquid-level-sensor-float-switch Regards Ivor Sent from my iPad On 26 May 2014, at 11:19, "David Joyce" wrote: --> Alan, For my money it doesn't really matter what level the fluid is in the bottle as long as the level in the header tank is OK, and I assume you check that frequently as part of your preparation for flight. The bottle is just there to make any fluid pushed out by thermal expansion recoverable as I see it. Why add weight and complication? regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Mon, 26 May 2014 09:35:12 +0100 Ivor Phillips wrote: --> Hi alan I drilled into the side of the plastic expansion bottle that Rotax supplied, I put her midway so the level would need to drop to minimum before the sensor triggered, I will try and turn up the type of float sensor I used from my records and let you no, It's a simple wiring job once you are through the firewall, Regards Ivor Sent from my iPad On 26 May 2014, at 08:51, "Alan Carter" wrote: --> Hello Ivor. Looks like Lydd is going to become more active know Manston is closed. I would like to fit an indicator the same as you have done, sounds a good idea, is there something you can drill and attach to the filler cap. Can you give some info on this. Regards. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423797#423797 Un/Subscription, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List Forums! Admin. Un/Subscription, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List Forums! Admin. ----- No virus found in this message. 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