---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/24/14: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:16 AM - Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? (Sacha) 2. 08:43 AM - Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? (william sullivan) 3. 10:05 AM - Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? (John Hauck) 4. 12:17 PM - Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? (Sacha) 5. 03:35 PM - Magnetic plug torque (Damien Graham) 6. 05:19 PM - Re: Magnetic plug torque (Damien Graham) 7. 06:40 PM - Re: Magnetic plug torque (Roger Lee) 8. 10:11 PM - Re: Cylinder head coolant leak? (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:59 AM PST US From: "Sacha" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? Hi Bill, I took the header tank off today, emptied and cleaned it. It had some silicon gasket material left over from when I installed the fuel level sender. Occasionally bits would float around and block the exit orifice and cause fuel flow to slow down substantially, exactly as you described. I expect things will go back to normal as soon as I re-mount the tank. Thanks again for the help! Regards, Sacha -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of william sullivan Sent: Sunday, 22 June, 2014 14:27 Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? --> Sacha- I can think of a couple of things to check before blaming the pump. First, are the tanks vented? Are the vents functioning? Second, make sure that there isn't something blocking the fuel intake. I had this problem once on a new piece of equipment with a diesel engine. It would sit and run at full throttle for hours, but if it went down the street it would suck air, and shut the engine down. It drove us nuts for a while, until we pulled the fuel tank and found a 1" square piece of masking tape drifting around in the fuel. When it sloshed over to the sucker tube, it blocked it and shut down the engine. Air in the fuel always makes me think of that. We found it by pulling the plug at the bottom and trying to drain it. The fuel would stop running. Poke a wire in there, and it would run again. It was invisible when soaked with fuel. We had to pull the tank to get it out. The tape had been used to cover all openings when shipped from one factory to another, and a piece dropped in when the manufacturer pulled it off. Bill Sullivan -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 6/22/14, Sacha wrote: Subject: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Date: Sunday, June 22, 2014, 3:56 AM --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Sacha" Hi Folks, Yesterday was supposed to be my final fuel flow test before taking to the air again. I have recently installed a fuel return line in my 912 system and also a fuel pressure gauge. The a/c is a Kitfox tri-gear, so high-wing with tanks in each wing and a header tank located behind the seats.---- A further investigation revealed that the fuel that was being pushed out contained some air bubbles, which to me means that air must be entering the fuel circuit on the suction side of the electrical pump. RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:56 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? Sacha- nice find. I have also had trouble with Teflon tape. If you overlap the end of a fitting, it will tear off and clog a filter. Good luck. -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 6/24/14, Sacha wrote: Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 11:16 AM --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Sacha" Hi Bill, I took the header tank off today, emptied and cleaned it. It had some silicon gasket material left over from when I installed the fuel level sender. Occasionally bits would float around and block the exit orifice and cause fuel flow to slow down substantially, exactly as you described. I expect things will go back to normal as soon as I re-mount the tank. Thanks again for the help! Regards, Sacha -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of william sullivan Sent: Sunday, 22 June, 2014 14:27 To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? --> Sacha- I can think of a couple of things to check before blaming the pump. First, are the tanks vented? Are the vents functioning? Second, make sure that there isn't something blocking the fuel intake. I had this problem once on a new piece of equipment with a diesel engine. It would sit and run at full throttle for hours, but if it went down the street it would suck air, and shut the engine down. It drove us nuts for a while, until we pulled the fuel tank and found a 1" square piece of masking tape drifting around in the fuel. When it sloshed over to the sucker tube, it blocked it and shut down the engine. Air in the fuel always makes me think of that. We found it by pulling the plug at the bottom and trying to drain it. The fuel would stop running. Poke a wire in there, and it would run again. It was invisible when soaked with fuel. We had to pull the tank to get it out. The tape had been used to cover all openings when shipped from one factory to another, and a piece dropped in when the manufacturer pulled it off. Bill Sullivan -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 6/22/14, Sacha wrote: Subject: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Date: Sunday, June 22, 2014, 3:56 AM --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Sacha" Hi Folks, Yesterday was supposed to be my final fuel flow test before taking to the air again. I have recently installed a fuel return line in my 912 system and also a fuel pressure gauge. The a/c is a Kitfox tri-gear, so high-wing with tanks in each wing and a header tank located behind the seats.---- A further investigation revealed that the fuel that was being pushed out contained some air bubbles, which to me means that air must be entering the fuel circuit on the suction side of the electrical pump. RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:24 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? Silicone seal/products don't get along well with gasoline. They are not fuel resistant and will cause many fuel related problems. john h mkIII Rock House, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:16 AM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? Hi Bill, I took the header tank off today, emptied and cleaned it. It had some silicon gasket material left over from when I installed the fuel level sender. Occasionally bits would float around and block the exit orifice and cause fuel flow to slow down substantially, exactly as you described. I expect things will go back to normal as soon as I re-mount the tank. Thanks again for the help! Regards, Sacha -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of william sullivan Sent: Sunday, 22 June, 2014 14:27 Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? --> Sacha- I can think of a couple of things to check before blaming the pump. First, are the tanks vented? Are the vents functioning? Second, make sure that there isn't something blocking the fuel intake. I had this problem once on a new piece of equipment with a diesel engine. It would sit and run at full throttle for hours, but if it went down the street it would suck air, and shut the engine down. It drove us nuts for a while, until we pulled the fuel tank and found a 1" square piece of masking tape drifting around in the fuel. When it sloshed over to the sucker tube, it blocked it and shut down the engine. Air in the fuel always makes me think of that. We found it by pulling the plug at the bottom and trying to drain it. The fuel would stop running. Poke a wire in there, and it would run again. It was invisible when soaked with fuel. We had to pull the tank to get it out. The tape had been used to cover all openings when shipped from one factory to another, and a piece dropped in when the manufacturer pulled it off. Bill Sullivan -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 6/22/14, Sacha wrote: Subject: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Date: Sunday, June 22, 2014, 3:56 AM --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Sacha" Hi Folks, Yesterday was supposed to be my final fuel flow test before taking to the air again. I have recently installed a fuel return line in my 912 system and also a fuel pressure gauge. The a/c is a Kitfox tri-gear, so high-wing with tanks in each wing and a header tank located behind the seats.---- A further investigation revealed that the fuel that was being pushed out contained some air bubbles, which to me means that air must be entering the fuel circuit on the suction side of the electrical pump. RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. = Photoshare, and much much more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List = = = ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken? From: Sacha Yes indeed. I should have just mounted the sender with the cork gasket that came with it. > On Jun 24, 2014, at 19:02, "John Hauck" wrote: > > Silicone seal/products don't get along well with gasoline. > They are not fuel resistant and will cause many fuel related > problems. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:33 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Magnetic plug torque From: Damien Graham Hello. I have a 14 year old 80 HP 912UL. I had the magnetic plug changed out a couple of years ago because it had been stripped. I have a question about the torque. I went to the Rotax class in Sebring over the winter and my notes say that the torque is 100 inch pounds, max of 140 in pounds. The maintenance manual that I have says 18.5 foot pounds, which is 222 inch pounds. Probably my notes are wrong, but I just want to be sure because 222 inch pounds sounds like a lot. Thanks. Regards, Damien N48TK Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Magnetic plug torque From: Damien Graham OK, I just answered my own question. I checked the newest on-line maintenance manual and the torque for the magnetic plug is 18.5 foot pounds. I should have checked before bothering the Matronics list. Thanks. Regards, Damien N48TK Sent from my iPad > On Jun 24, 2014, at 6:33 PM, Damien Graham wrote: > > > Hello. I have a 14 year old 80 HP 912UL. I had the magnetic plug changed out a couple of years ago because it had been stripped. I have a question about the torque. I went to the Rotax class in Sebring over the winter and my notes say that the torque is 100 inch pounds, max of 140 in pounds. The maintenance manual that I have says 18.5 foot pounds, which is 222 inch pounds. > Probably my notes are wrong, but I just want to be sure because 222 inch pounds sounds like a lot. Thanks. > Regards, > Damien > N48TK > > Sent from my iPad > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:12 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Magnetic plug torque From: "Roger Lee" Hi Damien, You are correct. That said I find 18.5 ft/lbs a little too much and makes removal a little too hard. That is one reason why the old style with the #40 Torx head stripped out, not ot mention some didn't seat the driver all the way to the bottom of the plug before they applied pressure to unscrew it. The whole idea is to tighten the plug so it won't leak or back out. I usually use less torque and it is secured on top of the torque with safety wire. I have never had one loosen in all my years. Try a little less torque it will work just fine. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425413#425413 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Cylinder head coolant leak? From: Richard Girard Before you resort to pulling the head why not have it borescoped and look over the combustion chamber, valves, etc. and see if you can't get a better handle on the problem that way? Just a thought. Rick Girard do not archive On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 12:20 PM, D L Josephson wrote: > dlj04@josephson.com> > > I'm working on a 912ULS from a windstorm-damaged plane that I'm pulling > out to put in a homebuilt. The engine sat on the airplane for about a year > after the airframe was totaled. All logs OK, looks very well cared for. > But, #2 cylinder had about 1/4 cup of coolant in it. Good thing no one > tried to start the engine, it was hydro locked by that. The spark plugs had > some rust on the electrodes. I haven't pulled the head off yet but assume > the valves will be in trouble too. The other cyls look OK. > > Is this a commonly seen problem? I have to guess there is some corrosion > or a crack between the coolant passage and the valve. There's no coolant in > the oil. > > Suggestions? > > David Josephson > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.