Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Rough Running (Hugh McKay)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: Rough Running (John Hauck)
3. 06:43 AM - Re: Rough Running (Brian Davies)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: Rough Running (Max Cointe (Free))
5. 11:32 AM - Re: Rough Running (Hugh McKay)
6. 12:45 PM - Re: Rough Running (Lyle Peterson)
7. 01:03 PM - Re: Rough Running (Nati Niv)
8. 01:16 PM - Re: Rough Running (JohnF)
9. 04:05 PM - Re: Rough Running (Roger Lee)
Message 1
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I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
Message 2
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First, I would regap plugs to .025.
Second, double check that spark plug wires are on the correct cylinders.
If the engine was running normally before you changed plugs, then the
problem is something that was changed by you during the plug
replacement.
john h
mkIII
Thermopolis, WY
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh
McKay
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:08 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
Message 3
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Hi Hugh,
I would start by being really, really sure that you have the plug leads
on the correct plugs.
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh
McKay
Sent: 17 July 2014 14:08
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
Message 4
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It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (on
my MCR 4S). It wasn=99t the first visit I did and so I was very
surprised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could
still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) if someone
didn=99t came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on
cylinders 2 and 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags
and almost a shut down when running on =9Cmag 1=9D or
=9Cmag2=9D.
So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it for
you, no shame!)
Max Cointe
<mailto:mcointe@free.fr> mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Hugh
McKay
Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
=C3 : Rotax Engines
Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected
the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked
again today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number
marked on each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from
the factory showing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything is
correct. If the wires are connected correct, what would be my next step
in finding the problem?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Max Cointe (Free)
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (on
my MCR 4S). It wasn=99t the first visit I did and so I was very
surprised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could
still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) =C2 if someone
didn=99t came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on
cylinders 2 and 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags
and almost a shut down when running on =9Cmag 1=9D or
=9Cmag2=9D.
So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it for
you, no shame!)
Max=C2 Cointe
mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Hugh
McKay
Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
=C3 : Rotax Engines
Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
Put the old plugs back in. The problem stated with the new plugs. Many
new products fail right out of the box. The consumer is now quality control.
On 7/17/2014 1:31 PM, Hugh McKay wrote:
> When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected
> the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked
> again today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number
> marked on each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from
> the factory showing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything
> is correct. If the wires are connected correct, what would be my next
> step in finding the problem?
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
> *From:* Max Cointe (Free) <mailto:mcointe@free.fr>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
>
> It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance
> (on my MCR 4S). It wasnt the first visit I did and so I was very
> surprised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I
> could still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) if
> someone didnt came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on
> cylinders 2 and 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags
> and almost a shut down when running on mag 1 or mag2.
>
> So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it
> for you, no shame!)
>
> Max Cointe
>
> mcointe@free.fr <mailto:mcointe@free.fr>
>
> F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
>
> Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
>
> F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S
>
> Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
>
> *De :*owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *De la part de*
> Hugh McKay
> *Envoy :* jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
> * :* Rotax Engines
> *Objet :* RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
>
> I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
> routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
> without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
> difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with
> difficulty and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm
> (almost wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
> immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to
> be correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the
> plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the
> plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the
> old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat
> transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to
> 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight.
>
> Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how
> tight they fit. The caps have to be wiggled some to get them to
> begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
> for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
> one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition
> problem and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or
> manipulated is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off
> the caps to remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the
> wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I
> check the individual plug wires for the proper resistance since one
> end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition modules? I
> notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction
> compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and
> threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the
> heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the
> cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any
> help and or advice would be appreciated.
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Allegro 2000
>
> N661WW
>
> Rotax 912 UL
>
> 671 hours
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net <mailto:hgmckay@bellsouth.net>
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
> *
>
>
> *
--
Lyle
Sent from my Gateway E4610D desktop
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Lyle Peterson <lyleap@centurylink.net>
wrote:
> Put the old plugs back in. The problem stated with the new plugs. Many
> new products fail right out of the box. The consumer is now quality
> control.
>
> On 7/17/2014 1:31 PM, Hugh McKay wrote:
>
> When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected
> the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked agai
n
> today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number marked o
n
> each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from the factory
> showing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything is correct. If
> the wires are connected correct, what would be my next step in finding th
e
> problem?
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
> *From:* Max Cointe (Free) <mcointe@free.fr>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
>
>
> It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (on
> my MCR 4S). It wasn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t the first visit I did and so
I was very surprised
> to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could still be
> there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) =C3=82 if someone didn=C3
=A2=82=AC=84=A2t
> came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on cylinders 2 and 4!
> Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags and almost a shut down
> when running on =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93mag 1=C3=A2=82=AC or =C3=A2=82
=AC=C5=93mag2=C3=A2=82=AC .
>
> So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it for
> you, no shame!)
>
>
> Max=C3=82 Cointe
>
> mcointe@free.fr
>
> F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
>
> Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
>
>
> F-PLDJ Dyn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2A=C3=83=C2=A9ro MCR 4S
>
> Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
>
>
> *De :* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com>] *De la part de* Hugh McKa
y
> *Envoy=C3=83=C2=A9 :* jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
> *=C3=83=82=AC :* Rotax Engines
> *Objet :* RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
>
>
> I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
> routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
> without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficul
t
> to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was ver
y
> very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out
of
> the engine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all th
at
> I had done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected
> correctly and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running
> fine before I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the
> plug caps, remove the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small
> amount of heat transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030,
> torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight.
>
>
> Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
> they fit. The caps have to be =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93wiggled=C3=A2=82=AC
some to get them to begin to
> release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a number o
f
> times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of the plug
> caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only plac
e
> where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug caps
> where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace the
> plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I
> find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper
> resistance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state
> ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that
> heat conduction compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug
> seat and threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue
of
> the heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in th
e
> cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help
> and or advice would be appreciated.
>
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
>
> Allegro 2000
>
> N661WW
>
> Rotax 912 UL
>
> 671 hours
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List" <http://www
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> Hi Hugh
Download from here:
http://contrails.free.fr/temp/9xx_heavy_maintenance_d05014.pdf the 912
heavy maintenance manual.
Go to section 74,scroll down to page 22, it will tell you what you are
suppose to see in terms of electrical resistance on different reference
points in the ignition system . Check resistance from the internal of the
plug connector to ground on all spark plug connectors, any reading in the
range of 10.5 to 12.7 K ohm is a good reading (I summarized the connector
resistance with the high voltage coil resistance, the last two lines on
page 22). If all is well in that area then I would say that you have one or
more faulty spark plugs, or may be the method of gaping you used is wrong
altogether? (replaced inch units with MM units?)
If you get some suspicious readings measuring the 8 connectors to ground,
continue troubleshooting by separating the connectors from the wires,
measuring the stand alone connector resistance and then the wire end to
ground, compare to correct values as shown in page 22.
Good luck, tell us please what was the happy end of the story
Nati Niv
RANS S6S 912ULS
Illinois
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| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
I had a similiar, but somewhat more gentle problem after a plug change rece
ntly. Roger Lee, at the Tucson Rotax Service Center, gave me a solution...w
hen pulling the plug wires off it is easy to pull back the wire inside the
cable....try this...remove the caps from the plug wires, and trim about 1/4
-inch off the cable, then reinsert the top cap of the plug wire assembly ba
ck onto the plug top. If the wire had pulled back it would cause the proble
m you have.
Hope this helps.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle Peterson
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
Put the old plugs back in. The problem stated with the new plugs. Many
new products fail right out of the box. The consumer is now quality contro
l.
On 7/17/2014 1:31 PM, Hugh McKay wrote:
When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected
the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked again
today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number marked on
each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from the factory sho
wing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything is correct. If the w
ires are connected correct, what would be my next step in finding the probl
em?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Max Cointe (Free)
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (o
n my MCR 4S). It wasn=99t the first visit I did and so I was very sur
prised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could still
be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) =C2 if someone didn
=99t came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on cylinders 2 a
nd 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags and almost a shut
down when running on =9Cmag 1=9D or =9Cmag2=9D.
So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it fo
r you, no shame!)
Max=C2 Cointe
mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxen
gines-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Hugh McKay
Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
=C3 : Rotax Engines
Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I rout
inely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times without
any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficult to start
and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was very very rou
gh especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out of the eng
ine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all that I had
done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected correctly
and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before
I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, re
move the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat t
ransfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in
=2Elb, and plug caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them t
o begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a
number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of th
e plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only
place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug
caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace th
e plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I
find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper resi
stance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition
modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduc
tion compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and thr
eads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat co
nduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? R
emember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice
would be appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
--
Lyle
Sent from my Gateway E4610D desktop
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| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
The Rotax plug gap spec is .023 to .027. The wide gap for hot months and the narrow
gap for cold winter months. If you want to just use .025 it won't hurt a
thing. Absolutely no anti seize on any Rotax plugs... It should be the silicone
based heat sync paste. Do not let it get down on the tips or it will cause
mis-firing. Keep the paste on the upper 1/2 - 2/3 of the top of the plug threads.
Leave the bottom 1/2 1/3 clean threads.
If you yank a plug boot off too hard you may dislocate or pull the wire tip out
of it's threaded anchor inside the boot. Always grab the plug boot and try not
to be ham fisted. Just wiggle it back and forth as you pull.
Many have found that they swapped plug wires even though they thought they were
right. Just double check.
If it shook this hard then it isn't just one plug wire or plug being an issue.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
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