---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/17/14: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:08 AM - Rough Running (Hugh McKay) 2. 06:34 AM - Re: Rough Running (John Hauck) 3. 06:43 AM - Re: Rough Running (Brian Davies) 4. 07:03 AM - Re: Rough Running (Max Cointe (Free)) 5. 11:32 AM - Re: Rough Running (Hugh McKay) 6. 12:45 PM - Re: Rough Running (Lyle Peterson) 7. 01:03 PM - Re: Rough Running (Nati Niv) 8. 01:16 PM - Re: Rough Running (JohnF) 9. 04:05 PM - Re: Rough Running (Roger Lee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:58 AM PST US From: "Hugh McKay" Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight. Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be appreciated. Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Allegro 2000 N661WW Rotax 912 UL 671 hours Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:55 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running First, I would regap plugs to .025. Second, double check that spark plug wires are on the correct cylinders. If the engine was running normally before you changed plugs, then the problem is something that was changed by you during the plug replacement. john h mkIII Thermopolis, WY From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh McKay Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:08 AM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight. Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be appreciated. Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Allegro 2000 N661WW Rotax 912 UL 671 hours Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:31 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running Hi Hugh, I would start by being really, really sure that you have the plug leads on the correct plugs. Regards Brian Davies From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh McKay Sent: 17 July 2014 14:08 Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight. Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be appreciated. Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Allegro 2000 N661WW Rotax 912 UL 671 hours Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:27 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe (Free)" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (on my MCR 4S). It wasn=99t the first visit I did and so I was very surprised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) if someone didn=99t came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on cylinders 2 and 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags and almost a shut down when running on =9Cmag 1=9D or =9Cmag2=9D. So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it for you, no shame!) Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Hugh McKay Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08 =C3 : Rotax Engines Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight. Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be appreciated. Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Allegro 2000 N661WW Rotax 912 UL 671 hours Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:11 AM PST US From: "Hugh McKay" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked again today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number marked on each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from the factory showing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything is correct. If the wires are connected correct, what would be my next step in finding the problem? Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com From: Max Cointe (Free) Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (on my MCR 4S). It wasn=99t the first visit I did and so I was very surprised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) =C2 if someone didn=99t came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on cylinders 2 and 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags and almost a shut down when running on =9Cmag 1=9D or =9Cmag2=9D. So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it for you, no shame!) Max=C2 Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Hugh McKay Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08 =C3 : Rotax Engines Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight. Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be appreciated. Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Allegro 2000 N661WW Rotax 912 UL 671 hours Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:22 PM PST US From: Lyle Peterson Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running Put the old plugs back in. The problem stated with the new plugs. Many new products fail right out of the box. The consumer is now quality control. On 7/17/2014 1:31 PM, Hugh McKay wrote: > When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected > the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked > again today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number > marked on each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from > the factory showing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything > is correct. If the wires are connected correct, what would be my next > step in finding the problem? > Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. > Senior Consultant > Worldwide Engineering Inc. > 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 > Denver, NC 28037 > > Ph. 704-661-8271 > Fax 704-483-5466 > email hgmckay@bellsouth.net > http://www.wwegeo.com > *From:* Max Cointe (Free) > *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM > *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running > > It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance > (on my MCR 4S). It wasnt the first visit I did and so I was very > surprised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I > could still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) if > someone didnt came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on > cylinders 2 and 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags > and almost a shut down when running on mag 1 or mag2. > > So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it > for you, no shame!) > > Max Cointe > > mcointe@free.fr > > F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear > > Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours > > F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S > > Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures > > *De :*owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *De la part de* > Hugh McKay > *Envoy :* jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08 > * :* Rotax Engines > *Objet :* RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running > > I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I > routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times > without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was > difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with > difficulty and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm > (almost wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine > immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to > be correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the > plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the > plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the > old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat > transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to > 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight. > > Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how > tight they fit. The caps have to be wiggled some to get them to > begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely > for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged > one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition > problem and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or > manipulated is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off > the caps to remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the > wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I > check the individual plug wires for the proper resistance since one > end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition modules? I > notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction > compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and > threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the > heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the > cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any > help and or advice would be appreciated. > > Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. > Senior Consultant > Worldwide Engineering Inc. > 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 > Denver, NC 28037 > > Allegro 2000 > > N661WW > > Rotax 912 UL > > 671 hours > > Ph. 704-661-8271 > Fax 704-483-5466 > email hgmckay@bellsouth.net > http://www.wwegeo.com > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > * > > > * -- Lyle Sent from my Gateway E4610D desktop ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running From: Nati Niv On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Lyle Peterson wrote: > Put the old plugs back in. The problem stated with the new plugs. Many > new products fail right out of the box. The consumer is now quality > control. > > On 7/17/2014 1:31 PM, Hugh McKay wrote: > > When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected > the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked agai n > today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number marked o n > each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from the factory > showing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything is correct. If > the wires are connected correct, what would be my next step in finding th e > problem? > > Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. > Senior Consultant > Worldwide Engineering Inc. > 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 > Denver, NC 28037 > > Ph. 704-661-8271 > Fax 704-483-5466 > email hgmckay@bellsouth.net > http://www.wwegeo.com > > *From:* Max Cointe (Free) > *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM > *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running > > > It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (on > my MCR 4S). It wasn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t the first visit I did and so I was very surprised > to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could still be > there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) =C3=82 if someone didn=C3 =A2=82=AC=84=A2t > came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on cylinders 2 and 4! > Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags and almost a shut down > when running on =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93mag 1=C3=A2=82=AC or =C3=A2=82 =AC=C5=93mag2=C3=A2=82=AC . > > So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it for > you, no shame!) > > > Max=C3=82 Cointe > > mcointe@free.fr > > F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear > > Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours > > > F-PLDJ Dyn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2A=C3=83=C2=A9ro MCR 4S > > Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures > > > *De :* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [ > mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com > ] *De la part de* Hugh McKa y > *Envoy=C3=83=C2=A9 :* jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08 > *=C3=83=82=AC :* Rotax Engines > *Objet :* RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running > > > I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I > routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times > without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficul t > to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was ver y > very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out of > the engine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all th at > I had done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected > correctly and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running > fine before I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the > plug caps, remove the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small > amount of heat transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, > torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight. > > > Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight > they fit. The caps have to be =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93wiggled=C3=A2=82=AC some to get them to begin to > release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a number o f > times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of the plug > caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only plac e > where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug caps > where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace the > plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I > find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper > resistance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state > ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that > heat conduction compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug > seat and threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of > the heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in th e > cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help > and or advice would be appreciated. > > > Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. > Senior Consultant > Worldwide Engineering Inc. > 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 > Denver, NC 28037 > > > Allegro 2000 > > N661WW > > Rotax 912 UL > > 671 hours > > Ph. 704-661-8271 > Fax 704-483-5466 > email hgmckay@bellsouth.net > http://www.wwegeo.com > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List" >http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?RotaxEngines-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com" >http:/ /forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" >http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > > -- > Lyle > > Sent from my Gateway E4610D desktop > > > * > =========== www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > Hi Hugh Download from here: http://contrails.free.fr/temp/9xx_heavy_maintenance_d05014.pdf the 912 heavy maintenance manual. Go to section 74,scroll down to page 22, it will tell you what you are suppose to see in terms of electrical resistance on different reference points in the ignition system . Check resistance from the internal of the plug connector to ground on all spark plug connectors, any reading in the range of 10.5 to 12.7 K ohm is a good reading (I summarized the connector resistance with the high voltage coil resistance, the last two lines on page 22). If all is well in that area then I would say that you have one or more faulty spark plugs, or may be the method of gaping you used is wrong altogether? (replaced inch units with MM units?) If you get some suspicious readings measuring the 8 connectors to ground, continue troubleshooting by separating the connectors from the wires, measuring the stand alone connector resistance and then the wire end to ground, compare to correct values as shown in page 22. Good luck, tell us please what was the happy end of the story Nati Niv RANS S6S 912ULS Illinois ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:01 PM PST US From: "JohnF" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running I had a similiar, but somewhat more gentle problem after a plug change rece ntly. Roger Lee, at the Tucson Rotax Service Center, gave me a solution...w hen pulling the plug wires off it is easy to pull back the wire inside the cable....try this...remove the caps from the plug wires, and trim about 1/4 -inch off the cable, then reinsert the top cap of the plug wire assembly ba ck onto the plug top. If the wire had pulled back it would cause the proble m you have. Hope this helps. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lyle Peterson To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:44 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running Put the old plugs back in. The problem stated with the new plugs. Many new products fail right out of the box. The consumer is now quality contro l. On 7/17/2014 1:31 PM, Hugh McKay wrote: When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked again today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number marked on each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from the factory sho wing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything is correct. If the w ires are connected correct, what would be my next step in finding the probl em? Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com From: Max Cointe (Free) Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (o n my MCR 4S). It wasn=99t the first visit I did and so I was very sur prised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) =C2 if someone didn =99t came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on cylinders 2 a nd 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags and almost a shut down when running on =9Cmag 1=9D or =9Cmag2=9D. So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it fo r you, no shame!) Max=C2 Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxen gines-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Hugh McKay Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08 =C3 : Rotax Engines Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I rout inely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was very very rou gh especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out of the eng ine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, re move the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat t ransfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in =2Elb, and plug caps reinstalled tight. Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them t o begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of th e plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace th e plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper resi stance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduc tion compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and thr eads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat co nduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? R emember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be appreciated. Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Allegro 2000 N661WW Rotax 912 UL 671 hours Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c -- Lyle Sent from my Gateway E4610D desktop --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protec tion is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:46 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rough Running From: "Roger Lee" The Rotax plug gap spec is .023 to .027. The wide gap for hot months and the narrow gap for cold winter months. If you want to just use .025 it won't hurt a thing. Absolutely no anti seize on any Rotax plugs... It should be the silicone based heat sync paste. Do not let it get down on the tips or it will cause mis-firing. Keep the paste on the upper 1/2 - 2/3 of the top of the plug threads. Leave the bottom 1/2 1/3 clean threads. If you yank a plug boot off too hard you may dislocate or pull the wire tip out of it's threaded anchor inside the boot. Always grab the plug boot and try not to be ham fisted. Just wiggle it back and forth as you pull. Many have found that they swapped plug wires even though they thought they were right. Just double check. If it shook this hard then it isn't just one plug wire or plug being an issue. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426860#426860 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.