Today's Message Index:
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1. 09:53 AM - Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be in-line filters) (David Weaver)
2. 01:09 PM - Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be in-line filters) (Don Hudgeon)
3. 04:56 PM - Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be in-line filters) (FLYaDIVE)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
For those that use ACS gascolators that=C2-are several years old.=C2- T
here is now a rubber seal ring that is rated for auto fuel with ethanol.=C2
- I found that over time my ACS rubber seal washer had hardened and neede
d to be replaced.=C2- The newer upgraded seal washer is available from Ai
r Spruce.=C2- I like the approach of filtering fuel with only a fire wall
mounted gascolator.=C2- I have the Aero Designs after date sump drains
=C2-installed on=C2-the bottom of both wings.=C2- I shaped a stream l
ine fillet of micro around each protruding drain valve for esthetic reasons
and to lower any generated airflow turbulence.=0ADave Weaver N912GR =0A=0A
=0AOn Monday, July 28, 2014 7:51 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
=0A =0A=0A=0ASacha:=0A=0AWhy go through all that headache. =C2-=0ACome o
ff the fuel tank at the lowest point in the delivery system.=0AInstall two
items; a T fitting with a sump drain and just before it an inline clear or
translucent fuel filter. =C2-One on EACH tank, if you have two tanks.=0AT
his way you now have a water drain at the lowest point in the system AND=0A
you have a simple replaceable fuel filter. =C2-MUCH, Much better than jus
t a screen. =0AIf you can replace the filters Annually at Inspection time.
=0ASimple, easy, and very effective. =0AThe rule you must follow is: =C2-
The filter as well as your fuel lines must be able to feed fuel at 3 times
the full flow rate of your engine. =C2-GPH/GPM. =C2-And of course that
means a larger surface / filtering area than the screen will ever be. =0A
=0ABarry=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Sacha <uuccio@gmail.co
m> wrote:=0A=0AHi Guy, thank for your feedback yeah, those are sca
ry thoughts.=C2- I did mean to add =9Cand then glass them over
=9D to my original post in fact. =0A>=C2-=0A>But it turns out my wing
tanks are not made of resin after all; a friend who is more knowledgeable
than me in these matters told me they look like they are polyethylene, or m
aybe a kind of nylon, like the Kitfox header tank.=C2- =C2-So gluing wi
ll be difficult and I=99m not sure glassing them will work either: it
looks like I will not be able to fit finger strainers (or fuel drain valve
s) to either wing tank as I can=99t find a viable way to attach the f
uel ports/aluminum flanges to the tank walls.=C2- (As they need to be clo
se to the trailing edge of the wing, it=99s not feasible to fit a cou
nter-nut on the inside of the tank either). =0A>=C2-=0A>Instead of finger
strainers on each wing, I=99m thinking of fitting a single finger st
rainer to the header tank.=C2- It looks like this can be done without too
much difficulty if I can tin-solder some brass mesh to the fuel port (the
finger strainers they sell at ACS seem to be made that way in fact
I=99m having trouble finding brass mesh so I may have to cut some fr
om one of the ACS strainers). =0A>=C2-=0A>sacha =0A>=C2-=0A>=C2- =0A>
From:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengine
s-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan=0A>Sent: Sunday, 20
July, 2014 07:07=0A>To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Rot
axEngines-List: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? =0A>=C2-=0A
>Sorry for the late reply, Sacha, I've been out of town. =0A>=0A>That might
work. You must be very careful to sand, clean, then use something like Met
alPrep, then Alodine, to prep the surface of the aluminum so you get a real
ly good bond. It will seriously ruin your day to have this flange pop off w
ith the finger strainer in place, thereby letting the entire tank of fuel d
rain into your wing. >:o=C2- (Meaning: I would never do it, unless I glas
sed over it after bonding it.)=0A>=0A>Guy Buchanan=0A>Ramona, CA=0A>Kitfox
IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded=0A>Now a glider pilot, t
oo.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On 7/16/2014 8:50 PM, Sacha wrote:=0A>What do you th
ink of the idea of =C2-gluing aluminum welding flanges to the outside of
the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other adhesive. Would it w
ork?=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the t
ank =C2-and then screw the finger strainers/fuel drains in place.=C2-
=0A>>The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower dow
n.=C2- =0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngine
s-List =0A>http://forums.matronics.com/=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2- - List Contribution Web generous =EF=BD=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2--Matt Dralle, List href="
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c= =0A>
=C2- =0A>ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxE
ngines-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
=========================0A
=======================
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
I use ONLY a gascolator on my 912 UL and in 490 hours have never had a fuel
contamination issue. I use non ethanol mogas exclusively except when
travelling and 100LL is all that is available. I purchase fuel directly
from the bulk agent.
I might be wrong but too many filters on a gravity system may not be the
answer.
Take care
Don
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:27 AM, David Weaver <mortweaver@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> For those that use ACS gascolators that are several years old. There is
> now a rubber seal ring that is rated for auto fuel with ethanol. I found
> that over time my ACS rubber seal washer had hardened and needed to be
> replaced. The newer upgraded seal washer is available from Air Spruce.
I
> like the approach of filtering fuel with only a fire wall mounted
> gascolator. I have the Aero Designs after date sump drains installed
> on the bottom of both wings. I shaped a stream line fillet of micro arou
nd
> each protruding drain valve for esthetic reasons and to lower any generat
ed
> airflow turbulence.
> Dave Weaver N912GR
>
>
> On Monday, July 28, 2014 7:51 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sacha:
>
> Why go through all that headache.
> Come off the fuel tank at the lowest point in the delivery system.
> Install two items; a T fitting with a sump drain and just before it an
> inline clear or translucent fuel filter. One on EACH tank, if you have t
wo
> tanks.
> This way you now have a water drain at the lowest point in the system AND
> you have a simple replaceable fuel filter. MUCH, Much better than just a
> screen.
> If you can replace the filters Annually at Inspection time.
> Simple, easy, and very effective.
> The rule you must follow is: The filter as well as your fuel lines must
> be able to feed fuel at 3 times the full flow rate of your engine.
> GPH/GPM. And of course that means a larger surface / filtering area tha
n
> the screen will ever be.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Guy, thank for your feedback yeah, those are scary thoughts.
I did
> mean to add =9Cand then glass them over=9D to my original pos
t in fact.
>
> But it turns out my wing tanks are not made of resin after all; a friend
> who is more knowledgeable than me in these matters told me they look like
> they are polyethylene, or maybe a kind of nylon, like the Kitfox header
> tank. So gluing will be difficult and I=99m not sure glassing the
m will
> work either: it looks like I will not be able to fit finger strainers (or
> fuel drain valves) to either wing tank as I can=99t find a viable w
ay to
> attach the fuel ports/aluminum flanges to the tank walls. (As they need
to
> be close to the trailing edge of the wing, it=99s not feasible to f
it a
> counter-nut on the inside of the tank either).
>
> Instead of finger strainers on each wing, I=99m thinking of fitting
a single
> finger strainer to the header tank. It looks like this can be done witho
ut
> too much difficulty if I can tin-solder some brass mesh to the fuel port
> (the finger strainers they sell at ACS seem to be made that way
in fact
> I=99m having trouble finding brass mesh so I may have to cut some f
rom one of
> the ACS strainers).
>
> sacha
>
>
> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Guy Buchanan
> *Sent:* Sunday, 20 July, 2014 07:07
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: in-line fuel filters - can you
> recommend any?
>
> Sorry for the late reply, Sacha, I've been out of town.
>
> That might work. You must be very careful to sand, clean, then use
> something like MetalPrep
> <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/metalprep.php?clickkey=9
9083>,
> then Alodine, to prep the surface of the aluminum so you get a really goo
d
> bond. It will seriously ruin your day to have this flange pop off with th
e
> finger strainer in place, thereby letting the entire tank of fuel drain
> into your wing. >:o (Meaning: I would never do it, unless I glassed over
> it after bonding it.)
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
>
> On 7/16/2014 8:50 PM, Sacha wrote:
>
> What do you think of the idea of gluing aluminum welding flanges to the
> outside of the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other adhesiv
e.
> Would it work?
>
> Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the tank and then scre
w
> the finger strainers/fuel drains in place.
> The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower down.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/ - List Contribution Web generous =EF
=BD -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> *
>
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Li
st <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution>
>
> *
>
>
> *cs.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List <http://cs.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines
-List>" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http --> http://www.matronics.co
m/con===============
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>
>
> *
>
===========
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
Don:
The issue is a brass screen that is difficult or impossible to install Vs a
functional in-line filter that does a better job then either the Gascolator
or brass screen. I know you guys are experimental - But, do you know the
issue with Gascolators and their bail? They require a second safety wire
to hold the bail. And the Gascolator does not filter as fine as an inline
$3.50 filter. And the Gascolator is not designed for fine filtering. It
is designed for water separation. As long as you sump it at ever flight.
My suggestion: Keep the Gascolator, I'm sure Sacha plans on doing that -
AND - Install the in-line filter for a total worry free operation.
Barry
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Don Hudgeon <don@hudgeon.com> wrote:
> I use ONLY a gascolator on my 912 UL and in 490 hours have never had a
> fuel contamination issue. I use non ethanol mogas exclusively except when
> travelling and 100LL is all that is available. I purchase fuel directly
> from the bulk agent.
>
> I might be wrong but too many filters on a gravity system may not be the
> answer.
>
> Take care
> Don
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:27 AM, David Weaver <mortweaver@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> For those that use ACS gascolators that are several years old. There is
>> now a rubber seal ring that is rated for auto fuel with ethanol. I foun
d
>> that over time my ACS rubber seal washer had hardened and needed to be
>> replaced. The newer upgraded seal washer is available from Air Spruce.
I
>> like the approach of filtering fuel with only a fire wall mounted
>> gascolator. I have the Aero Designs after date sump drains installed
>> on the bottom of both wings. I shaped a stream line fillet of micro aro
und
>> each protruding drain valve for esthetic reasons and to lower any genera
ted
>> airflow turbulence.
>> Dave Weaver N912GR
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 28, 2014 7:51 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote
:
>>
>>
>> Sacha:
>>
>> Why go through all that headache.
>> Come off the fuel tank at the lowest point in the delivery system.
>> Install two items; a T fitting with a sump drain and just before it an
>> inline clear or translucent fuel filter. One on EACH tank, if you have
two
>> tanks.
>> This way you now have a water drain at the lowest point in the system AN
D
>> you have a simple replaceable fuel filter. MUCH, Much better than just
a
>> screen.
>> If you can replace the filters Annually at Inspection time.
>> Simple, easy, and very effective.
>> The rule you must follow is: The filter as well as your fuel lines must
>> be able to feed fuel at 3 times the full flow rate of your engine.
>> GPH/GPM. And of course that means a larger surface / filtering area th
an
>> the screen will ever be.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Guy, thank for your feedback yeah, those are scary thoughts.
I did
>> mean to add =9Cand then glass them over=9D to my original po
st in fact.
>>
>> But it turns out my wing tanks are not made of resin after all; a friend
>> who is more knowledgeable than me in these matters told me they look lik
e
>> they are polyethylene, or maybe a kind of nylon, like the Kitfox header
>> tank. So gluing will be difficult and I=99m not sure glassing th
em will
>> work either: it looks like I will not be able to fit finger strainers (o
r
>> fuel drain valves) to either wing tank as I can=99t find a viable
way to
>> attach the fuel ports/aluminum flanges to the tank walls. (As they need
to
>> be close to the trailing edge of the wing, it=99s not feasible to
fit a
>> counter-nut on the inside of the tank either).
>>
>> Instead of finger strainers on each wing, I=99m thinking of fittin
g a
>> single finger strainer to the header tank. It looks like this can be do
ne
>> without too much difficulty if I can tin-solder some brass mesh to the f
uel
>> port (the finger strainers they sell at ACS seem to be made that way
in
>> fact I=99m having trouble finding brass mesh so I may have to cut
some from
>> one of the ACS strainers).
>>
>> sacha
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Guy Buchana
n
>> *Sent:* Sunday, 20 July, 2014 07:07
>> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: in-line fuel filters - can you
>> recommend any?
>>
>> Sorry for the late reply, Sacha, I've been out of town.
>>
>> That might work. You must be very careful to sand, clean, then use
>> something like MetalPrep
>> <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/metalprep.php?clickkey=
99083>,
>> then Alodine, to prep the surface of the aluminum so you get a really go
od
>> bond. It will seriously ruin your day to have this flange pop off with t
he
>> finger strainer in place, thereby letting the entire tank of fuel drain
>> into your wing. >:o (Meaning: I would never do it, unless I glassed
>> over it after bonding it.)
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> Ramona, CA
>> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
>> Now a glider pilot, too.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/16/2014 8:50 PM, Sacha wrote:
>>
>> What do you think of the idea of gluing aluminum welding flanges to the
>> outside of the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other adhesi
ve.
>> Would it work?
>>
>> Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the tank and then
>> screw the finger strainers/fuel drains in place.
>> The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower down.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/ - List Contribution Web generous
=EF=BD -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-L
ist <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/
contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *cs.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List <http://cs.com/Navigator?RotaxEngine
s-List>" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http --> http://www.matronics.c
om/con===============
>>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-L
ist <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/
contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
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