Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 PM - Engine boosting (rparigoris)
2. 04:45 PM - Re: Engine boosting (Rob Housman)
3. 07:06 PM - Re: Engine boosting (Keith Ashcraft)
Message 1
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Hi Group
I have a 914. The Garett Air Cooled Turbo that the 914 uses has been around for
some time (I think it is very close to the one on my 1983 GLT50 (245) Volvo Turbo
Wagon).
Curiosity question:
Can a "much more better" designed air pump reduce heating of air?
I was at the New York Bike show over the weekend. One bike really caught my eye:
A Kawasaki H2(R).
It's a track bike with a H2 model that will be street legal (I'm sure less powerful).
Anyway the H2R has a 1,000cc Super Charged engine that is claimed to produce
300hp. 300hp per liter, quite impressive. Specifications are still a bit
vague, but 14K may be close to redline?
Anyway supposedly Kawasaki did their homework (drawing from their affiliates that
know about turbine design) and their H2R design uses ~ a 2.5" diameter centrifugal
compressor with the larger stage being an 18 blade design. It is driven
from the crankshaft via chain off crank, then planetary gears that can spin
turbine up to 140,000rpm, spewing out air centrifugally at up to a little more
than 1,000mph. Just a note, the bike I saw (and heard run) had single speed gearing,
but patent Kawasaki has is for 1,2 or 3 speed. 3 speed would make for
a lot of air at lower rpms (or high altitude!). The gearing on the single speed
was a little under 10 to 1 of crank speed.
The interesting thing is it doesn't have an inter-cooler. Kawasaki mentions it
doesn't need an inter-cooler because the "miracle shaped blades) make less heat
than if it were traditionally shaped (whatever that means".
The super-charger is at the rear of the engine and it has an aluminium combiner/air-box
sitting on top of the engine.
I don't know much about fluid dynamics. Can anyone shed some light:
If a more efficient design is had for a compressor that compresses air to boost
intake pressure to an engine, give me an idea of how much less heat might be
produced.
I know on my 1983 Volvo, it had a 4 cylinder engine with a 2,300cc displacement.
Stock out of the factory without an inter-cooler the turbo would raise air temp
as much as 145 degrees F. If you installed the factory offered inter-cooler,
instead of raising the air temp going into your engine 145F, it would only
raise the air temp 45F. The inter-cooler came with a device that would wait until
you got to 3,750rpm, then it would increase boost.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435789#435789
Message 2
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According to the "ideal gas law" (which is a pretty good approximation for
air at the pressure in the intake manifold) PV = nRT so no matter what kind
of compressor/turbo is used, for a given amount of compression there is a
predictable change in temperature. Of course, if there is a difference in
the inefficiency of the turbos being compared that could make a difference
but I suspect that the differences will be minor compared to the theoretical
temperature change.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigoris
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 3:25 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Engine boosting
--> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hi Group
I have a 914. The Garett Air Cooled Turbo that the 914 uses has been around
for some time (I think it is very close to the one on my 1983 GLT50 (245)
Volvo Turbo Wagon).
Curiosity question:
Can a "much more better" designed air pump reduce heating of air?
I was at the New York Bike show over the weekend. One bike really caught my
eye:
A Kawasaki H2(R).
It's a track bike with a H2 model that will be street legal (I'm sure less
powerful). Anyway the H2R has a 1,000cc Super Charged engine that is claimed
to produce 300hp. 300hp per liter, quite impressive. Specifications are
still a bit vague, but 14K may be close to redline?
Anyway supposedly Kawasaki did their homework (drawing from their affiliates
that know about turbine design) and their H2R design uses ~ a 2.5" diameter
centrifugal compressor with the larger stage being an 18 blade design. It is
driven from the crankshaft via chain off crank, then planetary gears that
can spin turbine up to 140,000rpm, spewing out air centrifugally at up to a
little more than 1,000mph. Just a note, the bike I saw (and heard run) had
single speed gearing, but patent Kawasaki has is for 1,2 or 3 speed. 3 speed
would make for a lot of air at lower rpms (or high altitude!). The gearing
on the single speed was a little under 10 to 1 of crank speed.
The interesting thing is it doesn't have an inter-cooler. Kawasaki mentions
it doesn't need an inter-cooler because the "miracle shaped blades) make
less heat than if it were traditionally shaped (whatever that means".
The super-charger is at the rear of the engine and it has an aluminium
combiner/air-box sitting on top of the engine.
I don't know much about fluid dynamics. Can anyone shed some light:
If a more efficient design is had for a compressor that compresses air to
boost intake pressure to an engine, give me an idea of how much less heat
might be produced.
I know on my 1983 Volvo, it had a 4 cylinder engine with a 2,300cc
displacement. Stock out of the factory without an inter-cooler the turbo
would raise air temp as much as 145 degrees F. If you installed the factory
offered inter-cooler, instead of raising the air temp going into your engine
145F, it would only raise the air temp 45F. The inter-cooler came with a
device that would wait until you got to 3,750rpm, then it would increase
boost.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435789#435789
Message 3
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Rob,
Just FYI.
Here is a link to a company that is using a 912 and 912S, a centrifugal blower,
and getting around 25hp to 45hp extra.
http://www.flygas.info/en/news-en.html
Keith
**********************************************************************************
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 12/16/14, Rob Housman <rob@hyperion-ef.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Engine boosting
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2014, 5:44 PM
--> RotaxEngines-List message
posted by: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
According to the "ideal gas law" (which is a pretty good
approximation for
air at the pressure in the intake manifold) PV = nRT so no
matter what kind
of compressor/turbo is used, for a given amount of
compression there is a
predictable change in temperature. Of course, if there is a
difference in
the inefficiency of the turbos being compared that could
make a difference
but I suspect that the differences will be minor compared to
the theoretical
temperature change.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of
rparigoris
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 3:25 PM
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Engine boosting
--> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hi Group
I have a 914. The Garett Air Cooled Turbo that the 914 uses
has been around
for some time (I think it is very close to the one on my
1983 GLT50 (245)
Volvo Turbo Wagon).
Curiosity question:
Can a "much more better" designed air pump reduce heating of
air?
I was at the New York Bike show over the weekend. One bike
really caught my
eye:
A Kawasaki H2(R).
It's a track bike with a H2 model that will be street legal
(I'm sure less
powerful). Anyway the H2R has a 1,000cc Super Charged engine
that is claimed
to produce 300hp. 300hp per liter, quite impressive.
Specifications are
still a bit vague, but 14K may be close to redline?
Anyway supposedly Kawasaki did their homework (drawing from
their affiliates
that know about turbine design) and their H2R design uses ~
a 2.5" diameter
centrifugal compressor with the larger stage being an 18
blade design. It is
driven from the crankshaft via chain off crank, then
planetary gears that
can spin turbine up to 140,000rpm, spewing out air
centrifugally at up to a
little more than 1,000mph. Just a note, the bike I saw (and
heard run) had
single speed gearing, but patent Kawasaki has is for 1,2 or
3 speed. 3 speed
would make for a lot of air at lower rpms (or high
altitude!). The gearing
on the single speed was a little under 10 to 1 of crank
speed.
The interesting thing is it doesn't have an inter-cooler.
Kawasaki mentions
it doesn't need an inter-cooler because the "miracle shaped
blades) make
less heat than if it were traditionally shaped (whatever
that means".
The super-charger is at the rear of the engine and it has an
aluminium
combiner/air-box sitting on top of the engine.
I don't know much about fluid dynamics. Can anyone shed some
light:
If a more efficient design is had for a compressor that
compresses air to
boost intake pressure to an engine, give me an idea of how
much less heat
might be produced.
I know on my 1983 Volvo, it had a 4 cylinder engine with a
2,300cc
displacement. Stock out of the factory without an
inter-cooler the turbo
would raise air temp as much as 145 degrees F. If you
installed the factory
offered inter-cooler, instead of raising the air temp going
into your engine
145F, it would only raise the air temp 45F. The inter-cooler
came with a
device that would wait until you got to 3,750rpm, then it
would increase
boost.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435789#435789
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