Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:39 AM - Re: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (Flynn Elliott)
2. 07:01 AM - Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (Roger Lee)
3. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (Peter Jeffers)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (Roger Lee)
5. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (Peter Jeffers)
6. 10:22 AM - Re: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (vernon mitchell)
7. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (Peter Jeffers)
8. 12:12 PM - Re: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (vernon mitchell)
9. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (John Cox)
10. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (Flynn Elliott)
11. 05:32 PM - Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm (Roger Lee)
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
Thanks Roger, would you clarify exactly where to measure 10.5mm. i.e
armatures up or down and what area of edge of carb.
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: 03 June 2015 01:48 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
Hi Flynn,
This isn't the ignition modules, wrong symptoms. This is either fuel or the
gearbox. The carbs are clean and nothing is in the mixture jet (corner of
the float bowl) or the idle jet? I take it the idle is in sync and it isn't
set too low an rpm? If the gearbox is a little on the loose side it could
need a re-shim. This can be intermittent due to load changes when there is
an rpm change. Have the float armatures that the float push up on been set
to the proper height of 10.5mm from the edge of the carb to the top of the
float armature? (You may have a tad bit of flooding). Could the floats
themselves be a little heavy causing some mild flooding?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442919#442919
-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
Hi Flynn,
The carb must be off the engine and held upside down. Take a MM ruler and stand
it upright (straight up) on the outside lip of the carb. Now slide it over towards
the float armature so you can see the ruler marks next to the float armature.
The top of the float armature should be 10.5mm. If it is not just bend the
tab where the float needle is suspended to obtain the proper 10.5mm height.
This is what controls the fuel level in the bowl as the floats push up against
it. If it is off adjustment it can cause some flooding and rough running.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442934#442934
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
Hi Roger,
When I have done this job in the past I used a special Rotax tool for the
correct set up.
It was drawn to my attention that the dimension you refer to varies with
engine type ie 912ul 912uls and 914. Your clarification on this may be
appreciated by many or just me.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: 03 June 2015 15:01
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
Hi Flynn,
The carb must be off the engine and held upside down. Take a MM ruler and
stand it upright (straight up) on the outside lip of the carb. Now slide it
over towards the float armature so you can see the ruler marks next to the
float armature. The top of the float armature should be 10.5mm. If it is not
just bend the tab where the float needle is suspended to obtain the proper
10.5mm height. This is what controls the fuel level in the bowl as the
floats push up against it. If it is off adjustment it can cause some
flooding and rough running.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442934#442934
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
Rotax does have a special measurement tool the slips over the main jet nipple area.
I was doing this before that tool came out so just stuck with the mm ruler
and saved about $35. :)
Most don't want to spend the money on what many would consider a one time use part,
but either way works and gets the job done.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442940#442940
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
Roger,
My query was more about the dimension of 10.5 mm. I was told (and the tool
indicates) that different figures apply to the 912, 912s and 914 engines. I
am not too sure how critical this is but the dimensions on the tool are
quite different.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: 03 June 2015 16:31
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
Rotax does have a special measurement tool the slips over the main jet
nipple area. I was doing this before that tool came out so just stuck with
the mm ruler and saved about $35. :)
Most don't want to spend the money on what many would consider a one time
use part, but either way works and gets the job done.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442940#442940
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
Pete,
If that is the case, I would be very interested.
Vernon.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
> <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
>
> Hi Roger,
> When I have done this job in the past I used a special Rotax tool for the
> correct set up.
> It was drawn to my attention that the dimension you refer to varies with
> engine type ie 912ul 912uls and 914. Your clarification on this may be
> appreciated by many or just me.
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
> Lee
> Sent: 03 June 2015 15:01
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
>
>
> Hi Flynn,
>
> The carb must be off the engine and held upside down. Take a MM ruler and
> stand it upright (straight up) on the outside lip of the carb. Now slide
> it
> over towards the float armature so you can see the ruler marks next to the
> float armature. The top of the float armature should be 10.5mm. If it is
> not
> just bend the tab where the float needle is suspended to obtain the proper
> 10.5mm height. This is what controls the fuel level in the bowl as the
> floats push up against it. If it is off adjustment it can cause some
> flooding and rough running.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
> Light Sport Repairman
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442934#442934
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
Hi Vernon,
Some years ago I renewed all the maintainable bits of my carbs on a 912ul.
This included the brass pivot arm . At the time I rather naively assumed
that it was just a replacement item and fitted it as supplied in a Rotax
kit. I flew the aircraft and had no problem at all until I throttled back at
top of climb at which time the engine ran very rough. So rough that I
declared an emergency.
The simple fix was to correctly adjust the float levels in both carbs using
the Rotax tool.The tool has steps in it for the different 900 series
engines. I have absolutely no problem doing this with a tape measure as
Roger has described, but according to which engine you are working on
depends what dimension you should be working to. I look forward to Roger's
reply as he is the oracle on these matters.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vernon
mitchell
Sent: 03 June 2015 18:21
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
--> <vernon11@xsinet.co.za>
Pete,
If that is the case, I would be very interested.
Vernon.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
> <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
>
> Hi Roger,
> When I have done this job in the past I used a special Rotax tool for
> the correct set up.
> It was drawn to my attention that the dimension you refer to varies
> with engine type ie 912ul 912uls and 914. Your clarification on this
> may be appreciated by many or just me.
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Roger Lee
> Sent: 03 June 2015 15:01
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
>
> --> <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Flynn,
>
> The carb must be off the engine and held upside down. Take a MM ruler
> and stand it upright (straight up) on the outside lip of the carb. Now
> slide it over towards the float armature so you can see the ruler
> marks next to the float armature. The top of the float armature should
> be 10.5mm. If it is not just bend the tab where the float needle is
> suspended to obtain the proper 10.5mm height. This is what controls
> the fuel level in the bowl as the floats push up against it. If it is
> off adjustment it can cause some flooding and rough running.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
> Light Sport Repairman
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442934#442934
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
Yes Pete,
I will be looking forward to Rogers reply as well. Small things
like that, can make a big difference.
Vernon
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 8:35 PM
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
> <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
>
> Hi Vernon,
> Some years ago I renewed all the maintainable bits of my carbs on a 912ul.
> This included the brass pivot arm . At the time I rather naively assumed
> that it was just a replacement item and fitted it as supplied in a Rotax
> kit. I flew the aircraft and had no problem at all until I throttled back
> at
> top of climb at which time the engine ran very rough. So rough that I
> declared an emergency.
> The simple fix was to correctly adjust the float levels in both carbs
> using
> the Rotax tool.The tool has steps in it for the different 900 series
> engines. I have absolutely no problem doing this with a tape measure as
> Roger has described, but according to which engine you are working on
> depends what dimension you should be working to. I look forward to
> Roger's
> reply as he is the oracle on these matters.
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vernon
> mitchell
> Sent: 03 June 2015 18:21
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
>
> --> <vernon11@xsinet.co.za>
>
> Pete,
> If that is the case, I would be very interested.
> Vernon.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 4:34 PM
> To: <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
>
>> <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
>>
>> Hi Roger,
>> When I have done this job in the past I used a special Rotax tool for
>> the correct set up.
>> It was drawn to my attention that the dimension you refer to varies
>> with engine type ie 912ul 912uls and 914. Your clarification on this
>> may be appreciated by many or just me.
>> Pete
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Roger Lee
>> Sent: 03 June 2015 15:01
>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
>>
>> --> <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Hi Flynn,
>>
>> The carb must be off the engine and held upside down. Take a MM ruler
>> and stand it upright (straight up) on the outside lip of the carb. Now
>> slide it over towards the float armature so you can see the ruler
>> marks next to the float armature. The top of the float armature should
>> be 10.5mm. If it is not just bend the tab where the float needle is
>> suspended to obtain the proper 10.5mm height. This is what controls
>> the fuel level in the bowl as the floats push up against it. If it is
>> off adjustment it can cause some flooding and rough running.
>>
>> --------
>> Roger Lee
>> Tucson, Az.
>> Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
>> Light Sport Repairman
>> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
>> Cell 520-349-7056
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442934#442934
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
This is an excellent example of what is great with Matronics. I too look
forward to Roger's response. Although rather than call him an "Oracle",
google answers "A response which is typically one that is ambiguous or
obscure".
I would prefer you use the term Pontiff as in officiating such as at
mass. I hold Rotax as the ultimate authority and this is no time for
ambiguous or obscure dogmatic answers. I like your method mentioned
above. I love the 912iS with Fadec.
John Cox.
On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 12:11 PM, vernon mitchell <vernon11@xsinet.co.za>
wrote:
> vernon11@xsinet.co.za>
>
> Yes Pete,
> I will be looking forward to Rogers reply as well. Small things
> like that, can make a big difference.
> Vernon
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 8:35 PM
> To: <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
>
>> pjeffers@talktalk.net>
>>
>> Hi Vernon,
>> Some years ago I renewed all the maintainable bits of my carbs on a 912ul.
>> This included the brass pivot arm . At the time I rather naively assumed
>> that it was just a replacement item and fitted it as supplied in a Rotax
>> kit. I flew the aircraft and had no problem at all until I throttled back
>> at
>> top of climb at which time the engine ran very rough. So rough that I
>> declared an emergency.
>> The simple fix was to correctly adjust the float levels in both carbs
>> using
>> the Rotax tool.The tool has steps in it for the different 900 series
>> engines. I have absolutely no problem doing this with a tape measure as
>> Roger has described, but according to which engine you are working on
>> depends what dimension you should be working to. I look forward to
>> Roger's
>> reply as he is the oracle on these matters.
>> Pete
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vernon
>> mitchell
>> Sent: 03 June 2015 18:21
>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
>>
>> --> <vernon11@xsinet.co.za>
>>
>>
>> Pete,
>> If that is the case, I would be very interested.
>> Vernon.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 4:34 PM
>> To: <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
>>
>>> <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
>>>
>>> Hi Roger,
>>> When I have done this job in the past I used a special Rotax tool for
>>> the correct set up.
>>> It was drawn to my attention that the dimension you refer to varies
>>> with engine type ie 912ul 912uls and 914. Your clarification on this
>>> may be appreciated by many or just me.
>>> Pete
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Roger Lee
>>> Sent: 03 June 2015 15:01
>>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
>>>
>>> --> <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Flynn,
>>>
>>> The carb must be off the engine and held upside down. Take a MM ruler
>>> and stand it upright (straight up) on the outside lip of the carb. Now
>>> slide it over towards the float armature so you can see the ruler
>>> marks next to the float armature. The top of the float armature should
>>> be 10.5mm. If it is not just bend the tab where the float needle is
>>> suspended to obtain the proper 10.5mm height. This is what controls
>>> the fuel level in the bowl as the floats push up against it. If it is
>>> off adjustment it can cause some flooding and rough running.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Roger Lee
>>> Tucson, Az.
>>> Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
>>> Light Sport Repairman
>>> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
>>> Cell 520-349-7056
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442934#442934
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
A glimmer of hope, pulled the jets yet again and this time also the mixture
needles and gave them a clean and a light blast of air, along with the brass
down pipe attached to the carb body, reassembled and fired up, smooth as
silk at idle and throttle progression for around fifteen seconds then back
to lumpy running. Think I dislodged a tiny piece of something which may have
got pushed back with the fuel flow. I get the impression the culprit is
sitting in the carb body, will now have to take the carbs off for a strip
down be it that maybe only one carb is causing the problems.
Oh ,and float levels are spot on.
Flynn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: 03 June 2015 04:01 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm
Hi Flynn,
The carb must be off the engine and held upside down. Take a MM ruler and
stand it upright (straight up) on the outside lip of the carb. Now slide it
over towards the float armature so you can see the ruler marks next to the
float armature. The top of the float armature should be 10.5mm. If it is not
just bend the tab where the float needle is suspended to obtain the proper
10.5mm height. This is what controls the fuel level in the bowl as the
floats push up against it. If it is off adjustment it can cause some
flooding and rough running.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442934#442934
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 912 rough running below 3000 rpm |
The 912UL and ULS are the same measurements. They are the same carbs just different
jetting.
When the carbs come off you must flush through every orifice and jet in the bowl
and carb body and leave no stone unturned. It only takes a very tiny piece of
debris to cause this rough running. Your symptoms do sound like you move a piece
of debris, but after it runs it moves again.
I absolutely know you don't want to hear this, but I think you missed something
on the cleaning. Every little hole and crevice needs to be flushed then blown
out with air. Blow the air in more than one direction where possible. I have
seen a few owners have difficulty here because they left one stone unturned.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but no "Oracle" here just an owner like everyone
else and happy to pass on what I learn in all the Rotax schools and what
I have been able to see over the years. matter of fact I just spent all last
week back at Rotax for another school.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442958#442958
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