Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:05 AM - Re: Rough running 912 UL (Jeff Wemmering)
2. 08:03 AM - Re: Rough running 912 UL (vernon mitchell)
3. 02:26 PM - Re: Rough running 912 UL (Richard Girard)
4. 03:05 PM - Re: Rough running 912 UL (John Hauck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rough running 912 UL |
I had the same problem few years ago. After all that I did and frustration,
the fix was overhaul my carbs. Lockwood did not find the smoking gun in th
e carbs but it diffidently fix it.
Sent from my iPad
> On Sep 7, 2016, at 10:21 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> LOL...
>
> You are as much an "Expert" as ROTAX!!
>
>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:49 PM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt3@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Definitely not an expert in any sense, but I would check the module groun
ds. I would look to see if the grounds are run separately or are tied toget
her as a common ground. If they are together, I would separate them in any e
vent to give the true redundancy.
>> Lowell. 912 UL Kitfox IV,
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 7, 2016 5:38 PM, "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> Rick, Vernon, DHeal, Jeff, et al
>>>
>>> I changed all eight plugs hoping that may take care of the rough engine o
peration but it had no effect. The engine behaved and ran the same as before
changing the plugs. The engine starts fine, however after starting and clos
ing the choke holding 2000 to 2200 rpm the engine is randomly =9Cskipp
ing=9D. Through out the operating range (2200 rpm to 4000 rpm) you can
feel the engine missing randomly. With the engine operating at 4000 rpm, wh
en one of the ignition switches is =9Ckilled=9D the engine sudde
nly looses about 1000 rpm and shakes violently. It does exactly the same thi
ng when the other ignition switch is killed. So, the plugs are not the probl
em. =46rom the behavior of the engine I can=99t determine if the probl
em is in the ignition (electrical), or in the fuel/air mixture (carburetor).
I did notice that the old plugs were black and sooty indicating a rich fuel
mixture, but that was nothing new as I have always flown with that conditio
n (i.e. the carbs have never been touched since new and have given me absolu
tely no problem in the 700+ hours that are on the engine since new).
>>>
>>> Still don=99t know where to focus my attention next to identify th
e problem. I guess my next step is to make sure the carbs are balanced. If t
hey are, and the problem remains it must be electrical rather than a carb pr
oblem
>>>
>>> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
>>> Senior Consultant
>>> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
>>> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
>>> Denver, NC 28037
>>>
>>> Ph. 704-661-8271
>>> Fax 704-483-5466
>>> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
>>> http://www.wwegeo.com
>>>
>>> From: Hugh McKay
>>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 3:17 PM
>>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough running 912 UL
>>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>> The two Ducati ignition boxes have been on the engine since 2007. Engin
e and boxes were brand new then. How do I know if they were the =9Cbad
ones=9D? They have over 700 hours operation with out a problem.
>>>
>>> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
>>> Senior Consultant
>>> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
>>> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
>>> Denver, NC 28037
>>>
>>> Ph. 704-661-8271
>>> Fax 704-483-5466
>>> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
>>> http://www.wwegeo.com
>>>
>>> From: Richard Girard
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 9:54 PM
>>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough running 912 UL
>>>
>>> Have you checked the ignition boxes to see if they are the known bad one
s? Does the engine exhibit any trouble starting? Have you checked for a brok
en spark plug? When was the last time you trimmed and reseated the plug wire
s at each end (they screw on)?
>>>
>>> Rick Girard
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrot
e:
>>>> Started to fly my Allegro 2000 (912 UL engine) today and suddenly my en
gine is running rough. On some earlier flights I noticed the engine wanting t
o =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93burp=C3=A2=82=AC or =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93skip=C3=A2
=82=AC a little bit at idle and low rpms (2000 to 2500), however at highe
r rpms it seemed to smooth out. I had no symptoms while in flight.
>>>> =C3=82
>>>> However, today when I started the engine it again was =C3=A2=82=AC=C5
=93skipping=C3=A2=82=AC at low rpms. Went through the check list and came
to the point where I checked both ignitions at 4000 rpm. Ran the engine up t
o 4000 rpm and turned off one ignition. The engine suddenly ran very rough. W
hen I checked the other ignition the same thing happened. To say the least I
did not fly. took it back to the hanger and parked it.
>>>> =C3=82
>>>> Any suggestions as to what the problem may be?
>>>> =C3=82
>>>> Hugh G. McKay III
>>>> Denver, NC 28037
>>>> Allegro 2000
>>>> Rotax 912 UL
>>>> 780 hours TSN
>>>> =C3=82
>>>> Ph. 704-661-8271
>>>> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the l
ight.=C3=A2=82=AC =C3=82 =C3=82 Groucho Marx
>>>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rough running 912 UL |
Hugh.
With all that you have done, I am sure the last resort is the balance.
With the miss on higher revs, that does cancel the idle jets.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
Regards,
Vernon.
From: Hugh McKay
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough running 912 UL
Rick, Vernon, DHeal, Jeff, et al
I changed all eight plugs hoping that may take care of the rough engine
operation but it had no effect. The engine behaved and ran the same as
before changing the plugs. The engine starts fine, however after
starting and closing the choke holding 2000 to 2200 rpm the engine is
randomly =93skipping=94. Through out the operating range (2200 rpm to
4000 rpm) you can feel the engine missing randomly. With the engine
operating at 4000 rpm, when one of the ignition switches is =93killed=94
the engine suddenly looses about 1000 rpm and shakes violently. It does
exactly the same thing when the other ignition switch is killed. So, the
plugs are not the problem. From the behavior of the engine I can=92t
determine if the problem is in the ignition (electrical), or in the
fuel/air mixture (carburetor). I did notice that the old plugs were
black and sooty indicating a rich fuel mixture, but that was nothing new
as I have always flown with that condition (i.e. the carbs have never
been touched since new and have given me absolutely no problem in the
700+ hours that are on the engine since new).
Still don=92t know where to focus my attention next to identify the
problem. I guess my next step is to make sure the carbs are balanced. If
they are, and the problem remains it must be electrical rather than a
carb problem
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Hugh McKay
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough running 912 UL
Rick,
The two Ducati ignition boxes have been on the engine since 2007.
Engine and boxes were brand new then. How do I know if they were the
=93bad ones=94? They have over 700 hours operation with out a problem.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Richard Girard
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough running 912 UL
Have you checked the ignition boxes to see if they are the known bad
ones? Does the engine exhibit any trouble starting? Have you checked for
a broken spark plug? When was the last time you trimmed and reseated the
plug wires at each end (they screw on)?
Rick Girard
On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Started to fly my Allegro 2000 (912 UL engine) today and suddenly my
engine is running rough. On some earlier flights I noticed the engine
wanting to =9Cburp=9D or =9Cskip=9D a little bit
at idle and low rpms (2000 to 2500), however at higher rpms it seemed to
smooth out. I had no symptoms while in flight.
=C2
However, today when I started the engine it again was
=9Cskipping=9D at low rpms. Went through the check list and
came to the point where I checked both ignitions at 4000 rpm. Ran the
engine up to 4000 rpm and turned off one ignition. The engine suddenly
ran very rough. When I checked the other ignition the same thing
happened. To say the least I did not fly. took it back to the hanger and
parked it.
=C2
Any suggestions as to what the problem may be?
=C2
Hugh G. McKay III
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912 UL
780 hours TSN
=C2
Ph. 704-661-8271
email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D =C2 =C2 Groucho Marx
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rough running 912 UL |
Hugh, Old mechanics proverb, "90% of carburetor problems are solved in the
ignition system". That being said, have you checked the resistance of your
spark plug wires? Since you'll have to re-seat the wires anyway, take the
time to trim each end about 1/4" so that the screw connector has a chance
to seat into fresh, un-corroded wire. Also check the screws themselves for
signs of corrosion. Unless the wires are too short afterward this check
won't cost you anything but your time. Almost all the information you need
is available in the Heavy Maintenance Manual section 74-00-00.
Rick
Rick
On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Rick, Vernon, DHeal, Jeff, et al
>
> I changed all eight plugs hoping that may take care of the rough engine
> operation but it had no effect. The engine behaved and ran the same as
> before changing the plugs. The engine starts fine, however after starting
> and closing the choke holding 2000 to 2200 rpm the engine is randomly
> =9Cskipping=9D. Through out the operating range (2200 rpm to
4000 rpm) you can
> feel the engine missing randomly. With the engine operating at 4000 rpm,
> when one of the ignition switches is =9Ckilled=9D the engine
suddenly looses
> about 1000 rpm and shakes violently. It does exactly the same thing when
> the other ignition switch is killed. So, the plugs are not the problem.
> From the behavior of the engine I can=99t determine if the problem
is in the
> ignition (electrical), or in the fuel/air mixture (carburetor). I did
> notice that the old plugs were black and sooty indicating a rich fuel
> mixture, but that was nothing new as I have always flown with that
> condition (i.e. the carbs have never been touched since new and have give
n
> me absolutely no problem in the 700+ hours that are on the engine since
> new).
>
> Still don=99t know where to focus my attention next to identify the
problem.
> I guess my next step is to make sure the carbs are balanced. If they are,
> and the problem remains it must be electrical rather than a carb problem
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
> *From:* Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 05, 2016 3:17 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough running 912 UL
>
> Rick,
>
> The two Ducati ignition boxes have been on the engine since 2007. Engine
> and boxes were brand new then. How do I know if they were the =9Cba
d ones=9D?
> They have over 700 hours operation with out a problem.
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
> *From:* Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 03, 2016 9:54 PM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough running 912 UL
>
> Have you checked the ignition boxes to see if they are the known bad ones
?
> Does the engine exhibit any trouble starting? Have you checked for a brok
en
> spark plug? When was the last time you trimmed and reseated the plug wire
s
> at each end (they screw on)?
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> Started to fly my Allegro 2000 (912 UL engine) today and suddenly my
>> engine is running rough. On some earlier flights I noticed the engine
>> wanting to =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93burp=C3=A2=82=AC or =C3=A2=82=AC
=C5=93skip=C3=A2=82=AC a little bit at idle and low rpms (2000
>> to 2500), however at higher rpms it seemed to smooth out. I had no sympt
oms
>> while in flight.
>> =C3=82
>> However, today when I started the engine it again was =C3=A2=82=AC=C5
=93skipping=C3=A2=82=AC at
>> low rpms. Went through the check list and came to the point where I chec
ked
>> both ignitions at 4000 rpm. Ran the engine up to 4000 rpm and turned off
>> one ignition. The engine suddenly ran very rough. When I checked the oth
er
>> ignition the same thing happened. To say the least I did not fly. took i
t
>> back to the hanger and parked it.
>> =C3=82
>> Any suggestions as to what the problem may be?
>> =C3=82
>> Hugh G. McKay III
>> Denver, NC 28037
>> Allegro 2000
>> Rotax 912 UL
>> 780 hours TSN
>> =C3=82
>> Ph. 704-661-8271
>> email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
>>
>
>
> --
> =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the l
ight.=C3=A2=82=AC =C3=82 =C3=82 Groucho
> Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Rough running 912 UL |
Might be a good time to replace the connectors. Those have been rapid
wear parts on my three 912s. They can be bought from Sparkplugs.com by
getting the part number off of a connector. Price is a quarter what
Rotax wants for them.
john h
mkIII
Burns Junction, Oregon
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Girard
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough running 912 UL
Hugh, Old mechanics proverb, "90% of carburetor problems are solved in
the ignition system". That being said, have you checked the resistance
of your spark plug wires? Since you'll have to re-seat the wires anyway,
take the time to trim each end about 1/4" so that the screw connector
has a chance to seat into fresh, un-corroded wire. Also check the screws
themselves for signs of corrosion. Unless the wires are too short
afterward this check won't cost you anything but your time. Almost all
the information you need is available in the Heavy Maintenance Manual
section 74-00-00.
Rick
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