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1. 08:47 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/01/17 (Robert Toth)
2. 09:24 PM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/01/17 (Henry Roden)
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| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/01/17 |
Balance the carbs.
On 9/2/2017 3:03 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-09-01&Archive=RotaxEngines
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-09-01&Archive=RotaxEngines
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 09/01/17: 6
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 07:44 AM - 912 fuel problems (Henry Roden)
> 2. 09:35 AM - Re: 912 fuel problems (FLYaDIVE)
> 3. 09:56 AM - Re: 912 fuel problems (FLYaDIVE)
> 4. 10:18 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/30/17 (Robert
Toth)
> 5. 11:04 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
(Matt Dralle)
> 6. 11:17 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:44:47 AM PST US
> From: Henry Roden <krazydoc33@gmail.com>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems
>
> I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-12
> with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last
> three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also had
> some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I
> built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I put
> any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there was a
> leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, from
> the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak and it
> got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto fuel
> over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a
> leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the tank
> back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five days
> and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and
> stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a sheet
> of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and
> found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tank
> out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for over
> a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel but it
> was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick
> through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the
> Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in flight I
> made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler
> mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the engine
> and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I had
> to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I could
> even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. Before
> the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine would
> die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight check
> with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and both
> ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 4400
> rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic
> things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With the
> engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5
> psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it seems
> OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the pump
> plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring the
> amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which
> seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it
> through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was
> contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK.
> The questions:
> 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam?
> 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the fuel
> problems.
> 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms?
> Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the
> engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been
> that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox
> combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and the
> gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on
> the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compression
> pressure causing resistance?
> I apologize for the long description.
> Henry
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:35:52 AM PST US
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems
>
> Henry:
>
> I have been working with gas tank sealants for over 20 years. I do not
> know what form of PRO SEAL you used, what type did you use, the 890 or the
> 1440? But, I can tell you that ALL the gas tank sealants available in the
> USA will NOT work with AutoGas (MoGas) that contains ethanol. The gas will
> soften and cause leaks to the sealant. They are good, not great, with
> MoGas that does NOT contain ethanol. YET! The 'Aromatics' in gas will
> also attack tank sealants. Just not as fast as ethanol!
> Also - Many, Many people put one layer of tank sealant over the top of the
> old sealant... Ya CAN'T do that! The sealants DO NOT stick to them selves
> once cured and especially after gas has been in the tank. You MUST remove
> all the old sealant - Get down to bare metal - And start again.
>
> As for your rotax running rough... Don't know... Maybe a broken part of
> the sealant has blocked some orifice. I would fix one problem at a time.
> Gas tank sure sounds like it should be first.
>
> Barry
>
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Henry Roden <krazydoc33@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-12
>> with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last
>> three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also had
>> some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I
>> built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I put
>> any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there was a
>> leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, from
>> the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak and it
>> got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto fuel
>> over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a
>> leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the tank
>> back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five days
>> and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and
>> stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a sheet
>> of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and
>> found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tank
>> out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for over
>> a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel but it
>> was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick
>> through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the
>> Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in flight I
>> made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler
>> mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the engine
>> and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I had
>> to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I could
>> even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. Before
>> the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine would
>> die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight check
>> with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and both
>> ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 4400
>> rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic
>> things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With the
>> engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5
>> psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it seems
>> OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the pump
>> plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring the
>> amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which
>> seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it
>> through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was
>> contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK.
>> The questions:
>> 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam?
>> 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the
>> fuel problems.
>> 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms?
>> Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the
>> engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been
>> that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox
>> combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and the
>> gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on
>> the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compression
>> pressure causing resistance?
>> I apologize for the long description.
>> Henry
>>
>>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:56:52 AM PST US
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems
>
> Henry:
>
> I have been working with gas tank sealants for over 20 years. I do not
> know what form of PRO SEAL you used, what type did you use, the 890 or the
> 1440? But, I can tell you that ALL the gas tank sealants available in the
> USA will NOT work with AutoGas (MoGas) that contains ethanol. The gas will
> soften and cause leaks to the sealant. They are good, not great, with
> MoGas that does NOT contain ethanol. YET! The 'Aromatics' in gas will
> also attack tank sealants. Just not as fast as ethanol!
> Also - Many, Many people put one layer of tank sealant over the top of the
> old sealant... Ya CAN'T do that! The sealants DO NOT stick to them selves
> once cured and especially after gas has been in the tank. You MUST remove
> all the old sealant - Get down to bare metal - And start again.
>
> As for your rotax running rough... Don't know... Maybe a broken part of
> the sealant has blocked some orifice. I would fix one problem at a time.
> Gas tank sure sounds like it should be first.
>
> Barry
>
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Henry Roden <krazydoc33@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-12
>> with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last
>> three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also had
>> some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I
>> built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I put
>> any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there was a
>> leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, from
>> the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak and it
>> got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto fuel
>> over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a
>> leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the tank
>> back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five days
>> and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and
>> stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a sheet
>> of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and
>> found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tank
>> out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for over
>> a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel but it
>> was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick
>> through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the
>> Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in flight I
>> made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler
>> mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the engine
>> and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I had
>> to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I could
>> even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. Before
>> the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine would
>> die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight check
>> with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and both
>> ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 4400
>> rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic
>> things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With the
>> engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5
>> psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it seems
>> OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the pump
>> plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring the
>> amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which
>> seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it
>> through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was
>> contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK.
>> The questions:
>> 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam?
>> 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the
>> fuel problems.
>> 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms?
>> Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the
>> engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been
>> that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox
>> combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and the
>> gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on
>> the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compression
>> pressure causing resistance?
>> I apologize for the long description.
>> Henry
>>
>>
> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:18:55 AM PST US
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/30/17
> From: Robert Toth <rtoth1@verizon.net>
>
> Please change my e-mail to *rtoth4310@gmail.com* Thanks Robert Toth
>
> On 8/31/2017 3:04 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server wrote:
>> *
>>
>> ================================================
>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ================================================
>>
>> Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the
>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>> of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
>> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>
>> HTML Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-08-30&Archive=RotaxEngines
>>
>> Text Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-08-30&Archive=RotaxEngines
>>
>>
>> ==============================================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ==============================================
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Wed 08/30/17: 0
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:04:54 PM PST US
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently Asked
Questions)
>
>
> Dear Listers,
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> Matronics Email List Administrator
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> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/01/17 |
Hi Barry,
Thanks for your reply. I do have to clarify something though.
The sealant that I used is CS3204 a fuel resistant sealant for use on
integral fuel tanks and pressurized cabins as well as other areas subject
to contact with aircraft fuels, lubricants, oils, water and/or weathering.
At
room temperature, this two-part polysulfide cures to a flexible, resilient
rubber.
Meets requirements of specifications AMS-S-8802 formerly MIL-S-8802,
CMNP021, Lockheed, Gulfstream, Hughes Aircraft, Fairchild SPS 6-1 & 6-2
=8B.
This is the same sealant that has been used on over 500 Van's RV-12's as
well as most other Van's aircraft (about 10,000 of them over the years).
The prototype RV-12 is over 5 years old and has flown most of it's time
with auto-gas. No problems so far. The new tank that I built also used that
same sealant.=8B I still do not know why the original fuel tank that
I built
failed after being in service for three years. I am not aware of any other
similar failures.
Clearly, not all sealants are the same.
Henry
On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 1:03 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server <
rotaxengines-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
> Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of
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> editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-09-01&Archive=RotaxEngines
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-09-01&Archive=RotaxEngines
>
>
> ========================
=======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
=======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 09/01/17: 6
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 07:44 AM - 912 fuel problems (Henry Roden)
> 2. 09:35 AM - Re: 912 fuel problems (FLYaDIVE)
> 3. 09:56 AM - Re: 912 fuel problems (FLYaDIVE)
> 4. 10:18 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/30/17
> (Robert Toth)
> 5. 11:04 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently Asked
> Questions) (Matt Dralle)
> 6. 11:17 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines (Matt
> Dralle)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:44:47 AM PST US
> From: Henry Roden <krazydoc33@gmail.com>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems
>
> I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-12
> with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last
> three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also ha
d
> some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I
> built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I p
ut
> any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there was
a
> leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, from
> the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak and
it
> got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto fue
l
> over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a
> leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the tan
k
> back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five day
s
> and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and
> stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a she
et
> of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and
> found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tank
> out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for ove
r
> a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel but
it
> was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick
> through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the
> Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in flight
I
> made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler
> mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the engi
ne
> and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I h
ad
> to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I could
> even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. Befor
e
> the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine would
> die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight chec
k
> with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and bot
h
> ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 4400
> rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic
> things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With the
> engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5
> psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it seem
s
> OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the pum
p
> plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring th
e
> amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which
> seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it
> through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was
> contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK.
> The questions:
> 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam?
> 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the fu
el
> problems.
> 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms?
> Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the
> engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been
> that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox
> combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and t
he
> gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on
> the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compression
> pressure causing resistance?
> I apologize for the long description.
> Henry
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:35:52 AM PST US
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems
>
> Henry:
>
> I have been working with gas tank sealants for over 20 years. I do not
> know what form of PRO SEAL you used, what type did you use, the 890 or th
e
> 1440? But, I can tell you that ALL the gas tank sealants available in th
e
> USA will NOT work with AutoGas (MoGas) that contains ethanol. The gas wi
ll
> soften and cause leaks to the sealant. They are good, not great, with
> MoGas that does NOT contain ethanol. YET! The 'Aromatics' in gas will
> also attack tank sealants. Just not as fast as ethanol!
> Also - Many, Many people put one layer of tank sealant over the top of th
e
> old sealant... Ya CAN'T do that! The sealants DO NOT stick to them selve
s
> once cured and especially after gas has been in the tank. You MUST remov
e
> all the old sealant - Get down to bare metal - And start again.
>
> As for your rotax running rough... Don't know... Maybe a broken part of
> the sealant has blocked some orifice. I would fix one problem at a time.
> Gas tank sure sounds like it should be first.
>
> Barry
>
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Henry Roden <krazydoc33@gmail.com> wrote
:
>
> > I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-1
2
> > with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last
> > three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also
> had
> > some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank.
I
> > built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I
> put
> > any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there
> was a
> > leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, fr
om
> > the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak an
d
> it
> > got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto
> fuel
> > over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of
a
> > leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the
> tank
> > back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five
> days
> > and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and
> > stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a
> sheet
> > of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and
> > found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tan
k
> > out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for
> over
> > a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel bu
t
> it
> > was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick
> > through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the
> > Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in
> flight I
> > made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler
> > mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the
> engine
> > and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I
> had
> > to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I coul
d
> > even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again.
> Before
> > the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine wou
ld
> > die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight
> check
> > with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and
> both
> > ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 440
0
> > rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic
> > things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With th
e
> > engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5
> > psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it
> seems
> > OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the
> pump
> > plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring
> the
> > amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which
> > seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at
it
> > through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was
> > contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK.
> > The questions:
> > 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam?
> > 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the
> > fuel problems.
> > 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms
?
> > Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the
> > engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been
> > that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox
> > combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and
> the
> > gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back
on
> > the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compressi
on
> > pressure causing resistance?
> > I apologize for the long description.
> > Henry
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:56:52 AM PST US
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems
>
> Henry:
>
> I have been working with gas tank sealants for over 20 years. I do not
> know what form of PRO SEAL you used, what type did you use, the 890 or th
e
> 1440? But, I can tell you that ALL the gas tank sealants available in th
e
> USA will NOT work with AutoGas (MoGas) that contains ethanol. The gas wi
ll
> soften and cause leaks to the sealant. They are good, not great, with
> MoGas that does NOT contain ethanol. YET! The 'Aromatics' in gas will
> also attack tank sealants. Just not as fast as ethanol!
> Also - Many, Many people put one layer of tank sealant over the top of th
e
> old sealant... Ya CAN'T do that! The sealants DO NOT stick to them selve
s
> once cured and especially after gas has been in the tank. You MUST remov
e
> all the old sealant - Get down to bare metal - And start again.
>
> As for your rotax running rough... Don't know... Maybe a broken part of
> the sealant has blocked some orifice. I would fix one problem at a time.
> Gas tank sure sounds like it should be first.
>
> Barry
>
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Henry Roden <krazydoc33@gmail.com> wrote
:
>
> > I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-1
2
> > with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last
> > three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also
> had
> > some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank.
I
> > built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I
> put
> > any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there
> was a
> > leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, fr
om
> > the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak an
d
> it
> > got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto
> fuel
> > over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of
a
> > leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the
> tank
> > back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five
> days
> > and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and
> > stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a
> sheet
> > of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and
> > found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tan
k
> > out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for
> over
> > a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel bu
t
> it
> > was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick
> > through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the
> > Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in
> flight I
> > made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler
> > mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the
> engine
> > and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I
> had
> > to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I coul
d
> > even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again.
> Before
> > the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine wou
ld
> > die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight
> check
> > with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and
> both
> > ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 440
0
> > rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic
> > things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With th
e
> > engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5
> > psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it
> seems
> > OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the
> pump
> > plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring
> the
> > amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which
> > seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at
it
> > through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was
> > contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK.
> > The questions:
> > 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam?
> > 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the
> > fuel problems.
> > 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms
?
> > Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the
> > engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been
> > that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox
> > combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and
> the
> > gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back
on
> > the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compressi
on
> > pressure causing resistance?
> > I apologize for the long description.
> > Henry
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:18:55 AM PST US
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/30/
17
> From: Robert Toth <rtoth1@verizon.net>
>
> Please change my e-mail to *rtoth4310@gmail.com* Thanks Robert Toth
>
> On 8/31/2017 3:04 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server wrote:
> > *
> >
> > =======================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > =======================
> >
> > Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either o
f
> the
> > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatt
ed
> > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> > of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> editor
> > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> > HTML Version:
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-08-30&Archive=RotaxEngines
> >
> > Text Version:
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-08-30&Archive=RotaxEngines
> >
> >
> > =======================
=======================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > =======================
=======================
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Wed 08/30/17: 0
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Today's Message Index:
> > ----------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:04:54 PM PST US
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently
> Asked Questions)
>
>
> Dear Listers,
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> The
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d
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>
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>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
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h
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>
> pictures@matronics.com
>
> !! ==> Please including the following information with each submis
sion:
>
> 1) Email Lists that they are related to.
> 2) Your Full Name.
> 3) Your Email Address.
> 4) One line Subject description.
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
> 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
>
> Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be
> scanned
> for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files an
d
> photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try
> to
> process them every few days.
>
> Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message wil
l
> be
> sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
> Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
>
> For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
> Index Page:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
>
> **************************
> *** List Archive CDROM ***
> **************************
>
> A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
> all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The
> archives
> for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware sear
ch
> engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order i
t
> and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
> great gifts!
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
>
>
> **********************************
> *** List Support Contributions ***
> **********************************
>
> The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it
> members.
> You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
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> associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
> I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the mont
h,
> I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which the
y
> are comfortable.
>
> I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during
> the
> Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually
> donated
> by companies that are themselves List members.
>
> Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the List
s
> including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
> system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the man
y
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> variety of services found here.
>
> Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely
> voluntary
> and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and
> obtains
> value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
>
> Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
> subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
>
> The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. Ther
e
> are
> a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, an
d
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>
> If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today t
o
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>
> Thank you!
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Administrator
>
>
> ************************************************************
> ******************
> RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines
> ************************************************************
> ******************
>
> The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the
> RotaxEngines-List.
> You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therei
n.
> Failure to use the RotaxEngines-List in the manner described below may
> result
> in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
>
>
> RotaxEngines-List Policy Statement
>
> The purpose of the RotaxEngines-List is to provide a forum of discussion
> for
> things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
> are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
> high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
> among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
> requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
> the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
>
>
> - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submi
t
> posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
> lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
>
> - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
> relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it
.
>
> - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
> that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise a
nd
> terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
> responses.
>
> - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
> aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
> about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
> bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
> space in the archive.
>
> - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
> easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
> web page or FAQ first.
>
> - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
> your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
> easy to find threads in the archive.
>
> - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
> response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
> reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
> quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
> can not be overstated!
>
> - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
> then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
> "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
> response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
> your response with the original poster's email address.
>
> - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
> to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
> agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
> to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
>
> - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
> comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
> contribute something valuable.
>
> - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
> polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
> other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
> controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
> will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
>
> - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
> subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
> List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
> should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
> a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
> is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
> everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
> community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
> operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
>
> -------
>
>
> [This is an automated posting.]
>
> do not archive
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:17:19 PM PST US
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Please read over the RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines below. The
> complete
> RotaxEngines-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at th
e
> following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RotaxEngines-List.FAQ.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
> ************************************************************
> ******************
> RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines
> ************************************************************
> ******************
>
> The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the
> RotaxEngines-List.
> You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therei
n.
> Failure to use the RotaxEngines-List in the manner described below may
> result
> in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
>
>
> RotaxEngines-List Policy Statement
>
> The purpose of the RotaxEngines-List is to provide a forum of discussion
> for
> things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
> are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
> high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
> among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
> requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
> the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
>
>
> - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submi
t
> posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
> lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
>
> - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
> relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it
.
>
> - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
> that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise a
nd
> terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
> responses.
>
> - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
> aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
> about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
> bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
> space in the archive.
>
> - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
> easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
> web page or FAQ first.
>
> - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
> your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
> easy to find threads in the archive.
>
> - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
> response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
> reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
> quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
> can not be overstated!
>
> - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
> then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
> "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
> response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
> your response with the original poster's email address.
>
> - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
> to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
> agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
> to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
>
> - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
> comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
> contribute something valuable.
>
> - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
> polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
> other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
> controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
> will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
>
> - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
> subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
> List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
> should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
> a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
> is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
> everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
> community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
> operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
>
> -------
>
>
> [This is an automated posting.]
>
> do not archive
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
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