---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/04/17: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:47 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/01/17 (Robert Toth) 2. 09:24 PM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/01/17 (Henry Roden) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:10 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/01/17 From: Robert Toth Balance the carbs. On 9/2/2017 3:03 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-09-01&Archive=RotaxEngines > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-09-01&Archive=RotaxEngines > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 09/01/17: 6 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:44 AM - 912 fuel problems (Henry Roden) > 2. 09:35 AM - Re: 912 fuel problems (FLYaDIVE) > 3. 09:56 AM - Re: 912 fuel problems (FLYaDIVE) > 4. 10:18 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/30/17 (Robert Toth) > 5. 11:04 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) > 6. 11:17 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:44:47 AM PST US > From: Henry Roden > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems > > I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-12 > with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last > three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also had > some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I > built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I put > any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there was a > leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, from > the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak and it > got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto fuel > over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a > leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the tank > back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five days > and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and > stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a sheet > of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and > found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tank > out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for over > a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel but it > was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick > through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the > Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in flight I > made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler > mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the engine > and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I had > to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I could > even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. Before > the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine would > die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight check > with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and both > ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 4400 > rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic > things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With the > engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5 > psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it seems > OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the pump > plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring the > amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which > seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it > through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was > contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK. > The questions: > 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam? > 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the fuel > problems. > 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms? > Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the > engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been > that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox > combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and the > gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on > the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compression > pressure causing resistance? > I apologize for the long description. > Henry > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:35:52 AM PST US > From: FLYaDIVE > Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems > > Henry: > > I have been working with gas tank sealants for over 20 years. I do not > know what form of PRO SEAL you used, what type did you use, the 890 or the > 1440? But, I can tell you that ALL the gas tank sealants available in the > USA will NOT work with AutoGas (MoGas) that contains ethanol. The gas will > soften and cause leaks to the sealant. They are good, not great, with > MoGas that does NOT contain ethanol. YET! The 'Aromatics' in gas will > also attack tank sealants. Just not as fast as ethanol! > Also - Many, Many people put one layer of tank sealant over the top of the > old sealant... Ya CAN'T do that! The sealants DO NOT stick to them selves > once cured and especially after gas has been in the tank. You MUST remove > all the old sealant - Get down to bare metal - And start again. > > As for your rotax running rough... Don't know... Maybe a broken part of > the sealant has blocked some orifice. I would fix one problem at a time. > Gas tank sure sounds like it should be first. > > Barry > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Henry Roden wrote: > >> I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-12 >> with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last >> three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also had >> some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I >> built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I put >> any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there was a >> leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, from >> the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak and it >> got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto fuel >> over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a >> leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the tank >> back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five days >> and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and >> stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a sheet >> of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and >> found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tank >> out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for over >> a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel but it >> was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick >> through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the >> Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in flight I >> made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler >> mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the engine >> and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I had >> to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I could >> even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. Before >> the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine would >> die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight check >> with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and both >> ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 4400 >> rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic >> things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With the >> engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5 >> psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it seems >> OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the pump >> plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring the >> amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which >> seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it >> through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was >> contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK. >> The questions: >> 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam? >> 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the >> fuel problems. >> 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms? >> Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the >> engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been >> that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox >> combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and the >> gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on >> the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compression >> pressure causing resistance? >> I apologize for the long description. >> Henry >> >> > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:56:52 AM PST US > From: FLYaDIVE > Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems > > Henry: > > I have been working with gas tank sealants for over 20 years. I do not > know what form of PRO SEAL you used, what type did you use, the 890 or the > 1440? But, I can tell you that ALL the gas tank sealants available in the > USA will NOT work with AutoGas (MoGas) that contains ethanol. The gas will > soften and cause leaks to the sealant. They are good, not great, with > MoGas that does NOT contain ethanol. YET! The 'Aromatics' in gas will > also attack tank sealants. Just not as fast as ethanol! > Also - Many, Many people put one layer of tank sealant over the top of the > old sealant... Ya CAN'T do that! The sealants DO NOT stick to them selves > once cured and especially after gas has been in the tank. You MUST remove > all the old sealant - Get down to bare metal - And start again. > > As for your rotax running rough... Don't know... Maybe a broken part of > the sealant has blocked some orifice. I would fix one problem at a time. > Gas tank sure sounds like it should be first. > > Barry > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Henry Roden wrote: > >> I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-12 >> with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last >> three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also had >> some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I >> built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I put >> any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there was a >> leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, from >> the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak and it >> got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto fuel >> over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a >> leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the tank >> back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five days >> and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and >> stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a sheet >> of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and >> found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tank >> out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for over >> a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel but it >> was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick >> through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the >> Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in flight I >> made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler >> mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the engine >> and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I had >> to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I could >> even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. Before >> the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine would >> die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight check >> with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and both >> ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 4400 >> rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic >> things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With the >> engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5 >> psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it seems >> OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the pump >> plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring the >> amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which >> seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it >> through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was >> contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK. >> The questions: >> 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam? >> 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the >> fuel problems. >> 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms? >> Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the >> engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been >> that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox >> combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and the >> gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on >> the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compression >> pressure causing resistance? >> I apologize for the long description. >> Henry >> >> > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:18:55 AM PST US > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/30/17 > From: Robert Toth > > Please change my e-mail to *rtoth4310@gmail.com* Thanks Robert Toth > > On 8/31/2017 3:04 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server wrote: >> * >> >> ================================================ >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================ >> >> Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-08-30&Archive=RotaxEngines >> >> Text Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-08-30&Archive=RotaxEngines >> >> >> ============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Wed 08/30/17: 0 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:04:54 PM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) > > > Dear Listers, > > Please read over the RotaxEngines-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. > The > complete RotaxEngines-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the > following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RotaxEngines-List.FAQ.html > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as > Courier. 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The List's goals > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie > among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of > the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: > > > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit > posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long > lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. > > - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be > relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. > > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive > that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and > terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and > responses. > > - Keep your signature brief. 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Don't make snide comments, personally attack > other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously > controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that > will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. > > - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly > subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by > List members promoting their respective products or items for sale > should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble > a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but > is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to > everyone, including those who provide products to the entire > community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the > operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. > > ------- > > > [This is an automated posting.] > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:17:19 PM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines > > > Dear Listers, > > Please read over the RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete > RotaxEngines-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the > following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RotaxEngines-List.FAQ.html > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ****************************************************************************** > RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines > ****************************************************************************** > > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RotaxEngines-List. > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. > Failure to use the RotaxEngines-List in the manner described below may result > in the removal of the subscribers from the List. > > > RotaxEngines-List Policy Statement > > The purpose of the RotaxEngines-List is to provide a forum of discussion for > things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie > among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of > the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: > > > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit > posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long > lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. > > - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be > relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. > > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive > that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and > terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and > responses. > > - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, > aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line > about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid > bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary > space in the archive. > > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is > easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the > web page or FAQ first. > > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of > your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it > easy to find threads in the archive. > > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your > response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the > reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that > quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive > can not be overstated! > > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT > then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the > "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your > response to the original poster. You might have to actively address > your response with the original poster's email address. > > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something > to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I > agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent > to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. > > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to > comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly > contribute something valuable. > > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone > polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack > other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously > controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that > will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. > > - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly > subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by > List members promoting their respective products or items for sale > should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble > a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but > is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to > everyone, including those who provide products to the entire > community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the > operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. > > ------- > > > [This is an automated posting.] > > do not archive > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:47 PM PST US From: Henry Roden Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/01/17 Hi Barry, Thanks for your reply. I do have to clarify something though. The sealant that I used is CS3204 a fuel resistant sealant for use on integral fuel tanks and pressurized cabins as well as other areas subject to contact with aircraft fuels, lubricants, oils, water and/or weathering. At room temperature, this two-part polysulfide cures to a flexible, resilient rubber. Meets requirements of specifications AMS-S-8802 formerly MIL-S-8802, CMNP021, Lockheed, Gulfstream, Hughes Aircraft, Fairchild SPS 6-1 & 6-2 =8B. This is the same sealant that has been used on over 500 Van's RV-12's as well as most other Van's aircraft (about 10,000 of them over the years). The prototype RV-12 is over 5 years old and has flown most of it's time with auto-gas. No problems so far. The new tank that I built also used that same sealant.=8B I still do not know why the original fuel tank that I built failed after being in service for three years. I am not aware of any other similar failures. Clearly, not all sealants are the same. Henry On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 1:03 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server < rotaxengines-list@matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ======================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== > > Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of > the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text > editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-09-01&Archive=RotaxEngines > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-09-01&Archive=RotaxEngines > > > ======================== ======================= > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== ======================= > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 09/01/17: 6 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:44 AM - 912 fuel problems (Henry Roden) > 2. 09:35 AM - Re: 912 fuel problems (FLYaDIVE) > 3. 09:56 AM - Re: 912 fuel problems (FLYaDIVE) > 4. 10:18 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/30/17 > (Robert Toth) > 5. 11:04 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently Asked > Questions) (Matt Dralle) > 6. 11:17 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines (Matt > Dralle) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:44:47 AM PST US > From: Henry Roden > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems > > I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-12 > with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last > three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also ha d > some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I > built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I p ut > any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there was a > leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, from > the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak and it > got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto fue l > over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a > leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the tan k > back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five day s > and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and > stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a she et > of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and > found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tank > out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for ove r > a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel but it > was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick > through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the > Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in flight I > made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler > mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the engi ne > and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I h ad > to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I could > even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. Befor e > the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine would > die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight chec k > with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and bot h > ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 4400 > rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic > things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With the > engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5 > psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it seem s > OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the pum p > plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring th e > amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which > seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it > through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was > contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK. > The questions: > 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam? > 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the fu el > problems. > 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms? > Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the > engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been > that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox > combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and t he > gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on > the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compression > pressure causing resistance? > I apologize for the long description. > Henry > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:35:52 AM PST US > From: FLYaDIVE > Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems > > Henry: > > I have been working with gas tank sealants for over 20 years. I do not > know what form of PRO SEAL you used, what type did you use, the 890 or th e > 1440? But, I can tell you that ALL the gas tank sealants available in th e > USA will NOT work with AutoGas (MoGas) that contains ethanol. The gas wi ll > soften and cause leaks to the sealant. They are good, not great, with > MoGas that does NOT contain ethanol. YET! The 'Aromatics' in gas will > also attack tank sealants. Just not as fast as ethanol! > Also - Many, Many people put one layer of tank sealant over the top of th e > old sealant... Ya CAN'T do that! The sealants DO NOT stick to them selve s > once cured and especially after gas has been in the tank. You MUST remov e > all the old sealant - Get down to bare metal - And start again. > > As for your rotax running rough... Don't know... Maybe a broken part of > the sealant has blocked some orifice. I would fix one problem at a time. > Gas tank sure sounds like it should be first. > > Barry > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Henry Roden wrote : > > > I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-1 2 > > with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last > > three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also > had > > some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I > > built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I > put > > any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there > was a > > leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, fr om > > the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak an d > it > > got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto > fuel > > over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a > > leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the > tank > > back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five > days > > and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and > > stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a > sheet > > of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and > > found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tan k > > out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for > over > > a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel bu t > it > > was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick > > through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the > > Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in > flight I > > made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler > > mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the > engine > > and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I > had > > to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I coul d > > even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. > Before > > the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine wou ld > > die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight > check > > with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and > both > > ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 440 0 > > rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic > > things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With th e > > engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5 > > psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it > seems > > OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the > pump > > plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring > the > > amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which > > seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it > > through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was > > contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK. > > The questions: > > 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam? > > 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the > > fuel problems. > > 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms ? > > Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the > > engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been > > that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox > > combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and > the > > gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on > > the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compressi on > > pressure causing resistance? > > I apologize for the long description. > > Henry > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:56:52 AM PST US > From: FLYaDIVE > Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 fuel problems > > Henry: > > I have been working with gas tank sealants for over 20 years. I do not > know what form of PRO SEAL you used, what type did you use, the 890 or th e > 1440? But, I can tell you that ALL the gas tank sealants available in th e > USA will NOT work with AutoGas (MoGas) that contains ethanol. The gas wi ll > soften and cause leaks to the sealant. They are good, not great, with > MoGas that does NOT contain ethanol. YET! The 'Aromatics' in gas will > also attack tank sealants. Just not as fast as ethanol! > Also - Many, Many people put one layer of tank sealant over the top of th e > old sealant... Ya CAN'T do that! The sealants DO NOT stick to them selve s > once cured and especially after gas has been in the tank. You MUST remov e > all the old sealant - Get down to bare metal - And start again. > > As for your rotax running rough... Don't know... Maybe a broken part of > the sealant has blocked some orifice. I would fix one problem at a time. > Gas tank sure sounds like it should be first. > > Barry > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Henry Roden wrote : > > > I have a fuel problem that I would like your advice on. I have an RV-1 2 > > with the Rotax 912ULS that only has about 75 hours on it over the last > > three or four years. I had some severe medical problems and my RV also > had > > some fuel problems. The fuel problems began with leakage from the tank. I > > built the tank as per Van's manual and it sat for about a year before I > put > > any fuel into it. It was then OK for well over two years before there > was a > > leak. It began as a minor leakage and I removed the tank and sealed, fr om > > the outside, one seam and a front corner. That did not stop the leak an d > it > > got worse to the point that the tank lost about three gallons of auto > fuel > > over about four days. I removed the tank and could not find any sign of a > > leak with the tank on the bench even with fuel in the tank. I put the > tank > > back in and filled it, again with auto fuel. It was OK for about five > days > > and then began to leak again, this time it lost about ~five gallons and > > stripped the paint off the bottom of the plane, a real mess. I took a > sheet > > of newspaper and slid it under the tank, before I removed the fuel, and > > found that it was leaking at the rear right corner. When I took the tan k > > out that time it did not leak on the bench until it had sat there for > over > > a week. The Pro-Seal softened up in places when it was wet with fuel bu t > it > > was OK when it dried out. While it was wet I could poke a Q-tip stick > > through the corner, the Pro-Seal was quite soft. had no ideas why the > > Pro-Seal broke down as it did but rather than risk another leak in > flight I > > made a new tank, this time without the side gauge and with a Moler > > mechanical gauge on the top. There was a lot of trouble starting the > engine > > and when it did start, with full choke and no throttle, it ran rough. I > had > > to run the engine on full choke for at least five minutes before I coul d > > even crack the throttle open. I cleaned both carbs and tried again. > Before > > the five minutes were up if I tried to open the throttle the engine wou ld > > die. Once it had really warmed up it seemed OK. I did the pre-flight > check > > with a run up at 4000 rpm. The ignition drop as less than 250 rpm and > both > > ignitions were the same. At full throttle I could not get more than 440 0 > > rpm and it ran rough again. Back at the hangar I tried a few diagnostic > > things. With the electric fuel pump on I see about 2.5-2.9 psi. With th e > > engine running and the electric pump off the fuel pressure drops to~0.5 > > psi. I took the fuel pump off the engine and operated it by hand, it > seems > > OK but needs the electric pump on to keep it primed. The throw of the > pump > > plunger is ~3/8"-7/16". Checking the pump cam with a rod and measuring > the > > amount of difference from high cam to low cam it is barely 3/16" which > > seems very little. There is no sign of wear on the cam when looking at it > > through the pump mounting hole. I had thought that the pump filter was > > contaminated but the pump, when off the engine, seems OK. > > The questions: > > 1) Is this a normal throw for this cam? > > 2) Why does it need so much choke when it did not do so before all the > > fuel problems. > > 3) Is there something else I am missing that would cause these symptoms ? > > Since pulling off the fuel pump off another mechanic remarked that the > > engine seemed very stiff to pull over with the prop, it had always been > > that way since new and I had attributed it to the engine gearbox > > combination. I removed the top plugs and the gearbox and the engine and > the > > gearbox are each quite smooth but not when the gearbox is mounted back on > > the engine. It feels like the plugs are still in and there is compressi on > > pressure causing resistance? > > I apologize for the long description. > > Henry > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:18:55 AM PST US > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/30/ 17 > From: Robert Toth > > Please change my e-mail to *rtoth4310@gmail.com* Thanks Robert Toth > > On 8/31/2017 3:04 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > > > ======================= > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > ======================= > > > > Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either o f > the > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatt ed > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > > of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text > editor > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-08-30&Archive=RotaxEngines > > > > Text Version: > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-08-30&Archive=RotaxEngines > > > > > > ======================= ======================= > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > ======================= ======================= > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Wed 08/30/17: 0 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:04:54 PM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently > Asked Questions) > > > Dear Listers, > > Please read over the RotaxEngines-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) > below. > The > complete RotaxEngines-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be foun d > at the > following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RotaxEngines-List.FAQ.html > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font suc h > as > Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting > errors. ] > > > This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm > > > ************************************************************ > ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* > ************************************************************ > > > PLEASE READ. This document contains RotaxEngines-List policies and > information > for new and old subscribers. Understanding the RotaxEngines-List policie s > will > minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the > RotaxEngines-List > running smoothly for all of us. > > > ****************************************** > *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** > ****************************************** > > There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and eac h > one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator > you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this > List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List > > > **************************************** > *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** > **************************************** > > Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and > select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. Y ou > may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax o f > your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the > complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. > The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: > > http://www.matronics.com/subscribe > > Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your > subsciption > process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption > request > was received, and the second confirms that the process has been > completed. > > You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your reques t. > The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot > post > > until you receive the second conformation email message. > > > ***************************** > *** How to Post a Message *** > ***************************** > > Send an email message to: > > rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > > Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed > to the List. > > > ***************************************************** > *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** > ***************************************************** > > When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the messa ge > is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the > email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor .. > If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, i t > is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM tha t > gets posted to the Lists. > > Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very > important > with regard to the configuration of your email application such as > Outlook > or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be > functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email > SPAM > test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: > > smith@machine.domain.com > > smith@domain.com > > Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure > your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to > the List. > > > ************************************** > *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** > ************************************** > > Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and > spreadsheets > is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and > these > are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the > content of enclosures. > > These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matroni cs > Lists: > > 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the List s. > > 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the > Lists. > > 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. > > 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. > > 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. > > 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: > > bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls > > All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to > sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from > a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security ris k. > > 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to > posting > to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down > the process of posting the message !! > > > Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these > rules > > could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the > Lists. > > 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files > you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that > there > are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you > post > 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on > these > folks and the rest of us, for that matter. > > 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 > pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just > unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture > down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the > file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. > > Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allo ws > you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically > scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use > it! > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/ > xppowertoys.mspx > Look for the link "Image Resizer" > > 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. D o > not > post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmothe r. > And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even > questionable. !! > > 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 > members > subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting > to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and > BE COURTEOUS! > > Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where > you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server > for long time viewing and availability. > > > ******************* > *** Digest Mode *** > ******************* > > Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be > started. > This digest will contain the same information that is currently append ed > to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" > and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator > consisting > of a line of underscores. > > Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will b e > combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email > list. > > To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form > described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscribe > > Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest > versions > of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. > > Now some caveats: > > * Messages sent to "rotaxengines-list-digest" will be forwarded to the > standard > email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the > digest List. > > * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, > you > will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of > the day. > > * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to > the > normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please > change > the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, pleas e > *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. > > > **************************** > *** List Digest Browser *** > **************************** > > An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain > text > or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was > posted to > the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be > found > at the following location: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest > > > ***************************************** > *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** > ***************************************** > > At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a > very > > small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to > archive > > it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the > message: > > do not archive > > Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to > List > email distribution as normal. > > > ********************************************** > ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** > ********************************************** > > Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounc ed > email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be > promptly > removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receivi ng > messages from the RotaxEngines-List, go to the following Web page, and > look > for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. > > The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that > automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that > caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox > full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the > Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed > > If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please > feel > free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. > > > ******************************* > *** List Member Information *** > ******************************* > > If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers an d > paper mail address in the following format: > > smith@somehost.com > Joe Smith > 123 Airport Lane > Tower, CA 91234-1234 > 098-765-1234 w > 123-456-7890 h > > Please forward this information to the following email address: > > requests@matronics.com > > I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when > there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT > be used for any other commercial purpose. > > > **************************************** > *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** > **************************************** > > Recent messages posted to the RotaxEngines-List are also made availabl e > on > the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are > available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, > Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes ar e > updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a > message > > or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (comin g > soon). > You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List > Browser Interface in view-mode. > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rotaxengines-list > > > ******************************************* > *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** > ******************************************* > > A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RotaxEngines-Lis t > content. > content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the > email > > distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as > the > List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to > the > respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross poste d > to > the web Forums. > > You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. > If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, yo u > will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few > minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of t he > main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site als o > enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also > need to > > Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive t he > Email Distribution of the List, however. > > The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following > URL: > > http://forums.matronics.com > > > ********************************* > *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** > ********************************* > > In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often > accessed > information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful > information > for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web > page > > where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the > Wiki > permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible > immediately. > > While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be > comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and an y > images and email it to: > > wiki-support@matronics.com > > One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construc t > a Wiki page for you. > > Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of > the > Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take > that > post and convert it into a Wiki page. > > > ********************* > *** List Archives *** > ********************* > > A file containing of all of the previous postings to the > RotaxEngines-List is > available on line. The archive file information is available via the > Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: > > > * RotaxEngines-List.FAQ > > - Latest version of the RotaxEngines-List Frequently Asked > Question > > page (this document). > > * RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete > > - Complete file with most of the email header info removed an d > page breaks inserted between messages. > > * RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.vol-?? > > - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections > that > can more easily handled. > > * RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete.zip > > - Same as the RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete file > above, but > > in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. > > * RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete.Z > > - Same as the RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete file > above, but > in > UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. > > > Download Via FTP > ---------------- > > The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com > in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be foun d > in > a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case > sensitive.) > > ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives > > > Download Via Web > ---------------- > > The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found > toward the bottom of the following web page: > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > ****************************************** > *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** > ****************************************** > > All messages posted to the RotaxEngines-List are also available using > the > Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages > in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. > > http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi? > RotaxEngines > > > ***************************************** > **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** > ***************************************** > > You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search > Engine > to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the > List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currentl y > available List archives. > > http://www.matronics.com/search > > > **************************** > *** File and Photo Share *** > **************************** > > With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share > pictures > and other data with members of the List without having to forward a > copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email > them to: > > pictures@matronics.com > > !! ==> Please including the following information with each submis sion: > > 1) Email Lists that they are related to. > 2) Your Full Name. > 3) Your Email Address. > 4) One line Subject description. > 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. > 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file > > Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be > scanned > for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files an d > photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try > to > process them every few days. > > Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message wil l > be > sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new > Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. > > For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main > Index Page: > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > ************************** > *** List Archive CDROM *** > ************************** > > A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains > all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The > archives > for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware sear ch > engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order i t > and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make > great gifts! > > http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM > > > ********************************** > *** List Support Contributions *** > ********************************** > > The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it > members. > You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of > annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web > pages > associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November > I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the mont h, > I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which the y > are comfortable. > > I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during > the > Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually > donated > by companies that are themselves List members. > > Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the List s > including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server > system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the man y > many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the > variety of services found here. > > Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely > voluntary > and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and > obtains > value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. > > Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just > subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. > > The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. Ther e > are > a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, an d > sending a personal check. > > If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today t o > support its continued operation? > > http://www.matronics.com/contributions > > Thank you! > Matt Dralle > Email List Administrator > > > ************************************************************ > ****************** > RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines > ************************************************************ > ****************** > > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the > RotaxEngines-List. > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therei n. > Failure to use the RotaxEngines-List in the manner described below may > result > in the removal of the subscribers from the List. > > > RotaxEngines-List Policy Statement > > The purpose of the RotaxEngines-List is to provide a forum of discussion > for > things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie > among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of > the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: > > > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submi t > posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long > lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. > > - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be > relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it .. > > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive > that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise a nd > terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and > responses. > > - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, > aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line > about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid > bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary > space in the archive. > > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is > easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the > web page or FAQ first. > > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of > your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it > easy to find threads in the archive. > > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your > response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the > reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that > quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive > can not be overstated! > > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT > then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the > "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your > response to the original poster. You might have to actively address > your response with the original poster's email address. > > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something > to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I > agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent > to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. > > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to > comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly > contribute something valuable. > > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone > polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack > other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously > controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that > will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. > > - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly > subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by > List members promoting their respective products or items for sale > should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble > a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but > is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to > everyone, including those who provide products to the entire > community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the > operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. > > ------- > > > [This is an automated posting.] > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:17:19 PM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines > > > Dear Listers, > > Please read over the RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines below. The > complete > RotaxEngines-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at th e > following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RotaxEngines-List.FAQ.html > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ************************************************************ > ****************** > RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines > ************************************************************ > ****************** > > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the > RotaxEngines-List. > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therei n. > Failure to use the RotaxEngines-List in the manner described below may > result > in the removal of the subscribers from the List. > > > RotaxEngines-List Policy Statement > > The purpose of the RotaxEngines-List is to provide a forum of discussion > for > things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie > among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of > the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: > > > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submi t > posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long > lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. > > - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be > relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it .. > > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive > that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise a nd > terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and > responses. > > - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, > aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line > about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid > bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary > space in the archive. > > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is > easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the > web page or FAQ first. > > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of > your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it > easy to find threads in the archive. > > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your > response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the > reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that > quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive > can not be overstated! > > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT > then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the > "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your > response to the original poster. You might have to actively address > your response with the original poster's email address. > > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something > to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I > agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent > to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. > > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to > comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly > contribute something valuable. > > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone > polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack > other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously > controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that > will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. > > - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly > subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by > List members promoting their respective products or items for sale > should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble > a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but > is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to > everyone, including those who provide products to the entire > community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the > operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. > > ------- > > > [This is an automated posting.] > > do not archive > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.