Today's Message Index:
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0. 04:24 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:06 AM - Re: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring (Clive Richards)
2. 07:33 AM - Re: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring (h&jeuropa)
3. 10:26 AM - Re: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring (Dave Alberti)
4. 06:39 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring (Hugh McKay)
5. 07:40 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring (Dave Alberti)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying
Contribution too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring |
Hugh Rotax Warn Terminal C should not be disconnected from Term B with a
switch or fuse while the engine is running or regulator will be damaged.
You need to remove CB13 and connect R B & C together.
Myself I have installed a battery contactor ((19) on rotax drawing)switched
from a master switch, and normal & alternative feed (small fuse direct
from battery) switches to feed avionics bus.
IF you look in archives of aerolectric list you will find allsorts of
information on rotax regulator and dawings. good place to ask electrical
questions.
Clive
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 04:38, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Dave,
>
>
> Thanks for your clarification of the Rotax instruction concerning
> disconnecting the battery. I went back and read a similar article by Phil
> Lockwood called =9CTips and Tricks for the Ideal Rotax 912 Installa
tion=9D
> published in 2005. In that article he clearly states that the + battery
> wire that is connected to R, B+, and C must be disconnected from the batt
ery*.
> Based on my wiring one line drawing* where would you recommend I move
> Breaker 13 to isolate the battery, and should I change the breaker to a
> larger amp rating?
>
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
>
> Senior Consultant
>
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
>
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
>
> Denver, NC 28037
>
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
>
> Fax 704-483-5466
>
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
>
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> *From: *Dave Alberti <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 20, 2018 9:41 PM
> *To: *rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject: *Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
>
>
> Hugh, that does not isolate the battery, the rotax drawing drops at relay
> 19 and takes all voltage off the regulator at B+ and R. [image:
> image1.png]
>
> Dave Alberti
>
> 414-699-9312
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2018, at 7:59 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
>
> My battery is manually isolated by Breaker 13 shown within the =9Cc
loud=9D
> noted as Rev.#1 on the *attached one line (better drawing than what I
> sent previous).* All the Breakers mounted on the panel including Breaker
> 13 are Potter & Brumfield W23 Push Button Thermal circuit breakers that c
an
> also be used as manual isolation switches. I assumed the term =9CMa
ster
> Switch=9D as used by Mr. Truemper meant the =9CIgnition Switc
h=9D as seen on my
> one line. With that switch in the =9Coff=9D position and Brea
ker 13 open the
> voltage to ground on R, B+, and C each measured 12.7 VDC in stead of 0 VD
C.
> This is the same wiring arrangement as shown in the Rotax 912 Installatio
n
> Manual, page 46 of 66 Dated 1997 03 26. Unless I am =9Csomewhere lo
st in
> translation=9D, If Mr. Truemper has his engine wired according to t
he Rotax
> manual (which is the same as mine, he should also be reading the voltage
to
> ground on R, B+, and C each as 12+ VDC in stead of 0 VDC
>
>
> Having said all this, have I lost my mind?? According to the attached one
> line is my electrical system wired
> correctly????<D29C00CAAAD94829847618F3128C3F05.jpg>
>
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
>
> Senior Consultant
>
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
>
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
>
> Denver, NC 28037
>
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
>
> Fax 704-483-5466
>
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
>
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> *From: *Dave Alberti <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:23 PM
> *To: *rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> *Subject: *Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
>
>
> You don=99t show a battery relay to that isolates the battery when
all
> switches are off (as in shutdown) which is in the rotax install wiring
> diagram. I believe that is the master that Truemper=99s speaking
about.
>
> Dave Alberti
>
> 414-699-9312
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> I need some advice by anyone out there who may be able to clear up a
> question I have concerning checking the output wiring of the standard Rot
ax
> 912 rectifier used with the 912 UL engine. I have this rectifier on my
> Allegro 2000 ELSA (912 UL engine). For additional information I am
> attaching my airplane wiring one line diagram that shows how my rectifier
> is wired. Also I want to make reference to a Blog article authored by Kla
us
> Truemper titled *=9C18 December 2012 Testing Rotax 912/914 Generato
r and
> Rectifier=9D. *You can Google the title and read the article.
>
>
> In the section of Mr. Truemper=99s article (Testing Regulator/Recti
fier)
> where he states =9CWith the Master switch off: The above test (refe
rring to
> the previous paragraph) should show 0 voltage for all three cases. I do n
ot
> know what Mr. Truemper=99s wiring diagram looked like because he di
d not
> offer one in his article.
>
>
> After reading Mr. Truemper=99s article and because of some perceive
d battery
> charging issues I was having with my airplane I thought I would check my
> rectifier according to his instructions in the article section titled
> (Testing Regulator/Rectifier). All the tests he listed (the same ones I
> did) fell within the values stated in his article except those tested wit
h
> the Master switch =9Coff=9D. In my case, with the Master swit
ch =9Coff=9D the
> voltage to ground on R, B+, and C each measured 12.7 VDC in stead of 0 VD
C.
>
>
> Again I don=99t have Mr. Truemper=99s wiring diagram, but in
the wiring
> diagram shown in the Rotax 912 UL engine installation manual their wiring
> diagram indicates that there will be regular 12 VDC battery voltage on R,
> B+, and C when the master switch is =9Coff=9D.
>
>
> My question is this: Assuming there is a disconnect switch between
> terminal C and B+ in the open position (per instruction from Rotax to
> protect the battery from discharge), with the Master switch in the
=9Coff=9D
> position should I be measuring 12+VDC to ground on R, B+, and C rather th
an
> 0 VDC??
>
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
>
> Senior Consultant
>
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
>
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
>
> Denver, NC 28037
>
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
>
> Fax 704-483-5466
>
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
>
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> <Electrical wiring one-line Diagram.pdf>
>
>
> <D29C00CAAAD94829847618F3128C3F05.jpg>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring |
Hugh,
In your diagram switch/breaker CB13 only disconnects the C terminal of the Ducatti
from R & B+.
In your diagram there is no way to disconnect the battery from R & B+ except by
Fuse labeled Battery Booster (30A) or the 100A fuse (not advised).
Ducatti Terminal C has two functions. It provides voltage for the electronics
inside the Ducatti for to operate. It also is used to sense bus voltage which
in turn "tells" the Ducatti what the system requires, ie is the battery charged
so no output is required, is the system working normally so just top up charging
(output) is required or is the battery discharged so lots of output is required.
Since C provides power to the Ducatti, it must be disconnected from
the battery when the engine isn't running and providing voltage to the airplane
bus or it will cause the battery to slowly discharge, just like leaving a light
on.
>From your diagram the ignition switch has four positions.
Pos 1, ACC will provide power to the bottom left side of the diagram, looks like
flap position, front landing light, strobe lights, position lights, wing tip
landing and tail lights and cabin lights. It also powers the left side of the
diagram, sockets, GPS, Radio, ICM, Transponder and dual V/A meter.
Pos 2, OFF doesn't supply power to anything. However, C on the Ducatti will still
be connected to the battery and slowly draining the battery because it powers
the electronics inside the Ducatti.
Pos 3 probably labeled RUN supplies power exactly as Pos 1, ACC and also controls
the Rotax ignition modules (the last implied, not shown).
Pos 4 probably labeled START provides power to the start contactor (relay) as well
as the Rotax ignition modules (again implied, not shown).
So to answer your original question, with Master in Pos 2, OFF and the switch/breaker
CB13 open (off) you should read 12 VDC on B+ and R and 0 on C. Turn switch/breaker
CB13 closed (on) and you should read 12 VDC on R, B+ and C.
It appears that in Pos 4, START none of the ACC circuits will be powered but they
will be when the switch returns to Pos 3, RUN. This means none of your lights
radios or the dual V/A meter will function during START.
If you refer to Lockwoods article, note that you should not interrupt the connection
between C and R/B+ during engine run and that connection should have low
resistance, less than .2 VDC difference. It is OK to disconnect C from R and
B+ when the engine is not running.
Your diagram should work just fine. Just be sure to turn ON switch/breaker CB13
prior to or right after start (at which time light 16 should go off indicating
the Ducatti is on line and working) and always turn OFF switch/breaker CB13
after engine shut down.
Hope this helps.
Jim Butcher
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485475#485475
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring |
Hugh, I have an actual contractor (looks like a solenoid) from Spruce design
ed to use for this application. Mine is on the firewall near my battery. My
comparison position is prior to your ammeter shunt. You would have to wire y
our breaker so that when closed it would energize the solenoid to close the c
ircuit supplying 12 volts to B+, R and C. I use a switch like Cessna, red s
plit battery alternator .
Dave Alberti
> On Nov 20, 2018, at 10:31 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for your clarification of the Rotax instruction concerning disconne
cting the battery. I went back and read a similar article by Phil Lockwood c
alled =9CTips and Tricks for the Ideal Rotax 912 Installation=9D
published in 2005. In that article he clearly states that the + battery wir
e that is connected to R, B+, and C must be disconnected from the battery. B
ased on my wiring one line drawing where would you recommend I move Breaker 1
3 to isolate the battery, and should I change the breaker to a larger amp ra
ting?
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Dave Alberti
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 9:41 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
>
> Hugh, that does not isolate the battery, the rotax drawing drops at relay 1
9 and takes all voltage off the regulator at B+ and R.
>
> Dave Alberti
> 414-699-9312
>
> On Nov 20, 2018, at 7:59 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> My battery is manually isolated by Breaker 13 shown within the =9Ccl
oud=9D noted as Rev.#1 on the attached one line (better drawing than w
hat I sent previous). All the Breakers mounted on the panel including Breake
r 13 are Potter & Brumfield W23 Push Button Thermal circuit breakers that ca
n also be used as manual isolation switches. I assumed the term =9CMas
ter Switch=9D as used by Mr. Truemper meant the =9CIgnition Swit
ch=9D as seen on my one line. With that switch in the =9Coff
=9D position and Breaker 13 open the voltage to ground on R, B+, and C each m
easured 12.7 VDC in stead of 0 VDC. This is the same wiring arrangement as s
hown in the Rotax 912 Installation Manual, page 46 of 66 Dated 1997 03 26. U
nless I am =9Csomewhere lost in translation=9D, If Mr. Truemper h
as his engine wired according to the Rotax manual (which is the same as mine
, he should also be reading the voltage to ground on R, B+, and C each as 12
+ VDC in stead of 0 VDC
>
> Having said all this, have I lost my mind?? According to the attached one l
ine is my electrical system wired correctly????<D29C00CAAAD94829847618F3128C
3F05.jpg>
>
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Dave Alberti
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:23 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
>
> You don=99t show a battery relay to that isolates the battery when a
ll switches are off (as in shutdown) which is in the rotax install wiring di
agram. I believe that is the master that Truemper=99s speaking about
.
>
> Dave Alberti
> 414-699-9312
>
> On Nov 20, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> I need some advice by anyone out there who may be able to clear up a quest
ion I have concerning checking the output wiring of the standard Rotax 912 r
ectifier used with the 912 UL engine. I have this rectifier on my Allegro 2
000 ELSA (912 UL engine). For additional information I am attaching my airpl
ane wiring one line diagram that shows how my rectifier is wired. Also I wan
t to make reference to a Blog article authored by Klaus Truemper titled
=9C18 December 2012 Testing Rotax 912/914 Generator and Rectifier=9D. Y
ou can Google the title and read the article.
>
> In the section of Mr. Truemper=99s article (Testing Regulator/Rectif
ier) where he states =9CWith the Master switch off: The above test (re
ferring to the previous paragraph) should show 0 voltage for all three cases
. I do not know what Mr. Truemper=99s wiring diagram looked like becau
se he did not offer one in his article.
>
> After reading Mr. Truemper=99s article and because of some perceived
battery charging issues I was having with my airplane I thought I would che
ck my rectifier according to his instructions in the article section titled (
Testing Regulator/Rectifier). All the tests he listed (the same ones I did) f
ell within the values stated in his article except those tested with the Mas
ter switch =9Coff=9D. In my case, with the Master switch =9C
off=9D the voltage to ground on R, B+, and C each measured 12.7 VDC in
stead of 0 VDC.
>
> Again I don=99t have Mr. Truemper=99s wiring diagram, but in t
he wiring diagram shown in the Rotax 912 UL engine installation manual their
wiring diagram indicates that there will be regular 12 VDC battery voltage o
n R, B+, and C when the master switch is =9Coff=9D.
>
> My question is this: Assuming there is a disconnect switch between termina
l C and B+ in the open position (per instruction from Rotax to protect the b
attery from discharge), with the Master switch in the =9Coff=9D p
osition should I be measuring 12+VDC to ground on R, B+, and C rather than 0
VDC??
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> <Electrical wiring one-line Diagram.pdf>
>
> <D29C00CAAAD94829847618F3128C3F05.jpg>
>
> <image1.png>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring |
Dave,
I am not an electrical guru so my understanding of electrical terms and fun
ctions in an electrical circuit is very limited. I do need to limit the amo
unt of changes to my panel simply due to space. Therefore, I am attaching a
scanned sketch of what I propose doing, hoping that it will be safe and me
et the electrical requirements for safe operation of the rectifier and give
the isolation requirements described by Rotax. Please refer to the attache
d sketch and the original one line to compare the proposed changes to the o
riginal.
You will note on the sketch that I have a common point where I connect 5 wi
res to a common connection (R, B+, C, the wire from the Capacitor, and the
wire from the 30 Amp fuse). Between the 30 Amp fuse and the shunt I propose
using my existing Breaker 13 (Potter & Brumfield Series W23 Push Button Th
ermal circuit breaker W23-X1A1G5 (which is certified to be used as a manual
push to close/pull to open disconnect) rated for 5 Amps having a Trip time
at 200% rating of 6-22 seconds. If necessary I can replace this same ident
ical Potter & Brumfield breaker with Amp ratings up to 50 Amps. By the way
all the breakers shown on the one line are panel mounted Potter & Brumfield
Series W23 Push Button Thermal circuit breakers. I use these breakers rout
inely as disconnect switches to isolate certain sections of the electrical
system on start-up. Do you find any flaws in this sketch?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Dave Alberti
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
Hugh, I have an actual contractor (looks like a solenoid) from Spruce desig
ned to use for this application. Mine is on the firewall near my battery.
=C2-My comparison position is prior to your ammeter shunt. You would have
to wire your breaker so that when closed it would energize the solenoid to
close the circuit supplying 12 volts to B+, R and C. =C2-I use a switch
like Cessna, red split battery alternator .
Dave Alberti
On Nov 20, 2018, at 10:31 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Dave,
=C2-
Thanks for your clarification of the Rotax instruction concerning disconnec
ting the battery. I went back and read a similar article by Phil Lockwood c
alled =9CTips and Tricks for the Ideal Rotax 912 Installation
=9D published in 2005. In that article he clearly states that the + battery
wire that is connected to R, B+, and C must be disconnected from the batte
ry. Based on my wiring one line drawing where would you recommend I move Br
eaker 13 to isolate the battery, and should I change the breaker to a large
r amp rating?
=C2-
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
=C2-
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
=C2-
From: Dave Alberti
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
=C2-
Hugh, that does not isolate the battery, the rotax drawing drops at relay 1
9 and takes all voltage off the regulator at B+ and R. =C2-
Dave Alberti
414-699-9312
On Nov 20, 2018, at 7:59 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Dave,
=C2-
My battery is manually isolated by Breaker 13 shown within the =9Cclo
ud=9D noted as Rev.#1 on the attached one line (better drawing than w
hat I sent previous). All the Breakers mounted on the panel including Break
er 13 are Potter & Brumfield W23 Push Button Thermal circuit breakers that
can also be used as manual isolation switches. I assumed the term =9C
Master Switch=9D as used by Mr. Truemper meant the =9CIgnition
Switch=9D as seen on my one line. With that switch in the =9Cof
f=9D position and Breaker 13 open the voltage to ground on R, B+, and
C each measured 12.7 VDC in stead of 0 VDC. This is the same wiring arrang
ement as shown in the Rotax 912 Installation Manual, page 46 of 66 Dated 19
97 03 26. Unless I am =9Csomewhere lost in translation=9D, If M
r. Truemper has his engine wired according to the Rotax manual (which is th
e same as mine, he should also be reading the voltage to ground on R, B+, a
nd C each as 12+ VDC in stead of 0 VDC
=C2-
Having said all this, have I lost my mind?? According to the attached one l
ine is my electrical system wired correctly????<D29C00CAAAD94829847618F3128
C3F05.jpg>
=C2-
=C2-
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
=C2-
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
=C2-
From: Dave Alberti
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
=C2-
You don=99t show a battery relay to that isolates the battery when al
l switches are off (as in shutdown) which is in the rotax install wiring di
agram. =C2-I believe that is the master that =C2-Truemper=99s spe
aking about.
Dave Alberti
414-699-9312
On Nov 20, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I need some advice by anyone out there who may be able to clear up a questi
on I have concerning checking the output wiring of the standard Rotax 912 r
ectifier used with the 912 UL engine. I have this rectifier on my =C2-All
egro 2000 ELSA (912 UL engine). For additional information I am attaching m
y airplane wiring one line diagram that shows how my rectifier is wired. Al
so I want to make reference to a Blog article authored by Klaus Truemper ti
tled =9C18 December 2012 Testing Rotax 912/914 Generator and Rectifie
r=9D. You can Google the title and read the article.
=C2-
In the section of Mr. Truemper=99s article (Testing Regulator/Rectifi
er) where he states =9CWith the Master switch off: The above test (re
ferring to the previous paragraph) should show 0 voltage for all three case
s. I do not know what Mr. Truemper=99s wiring diagram looked like bec
ause he did not offer one in his article.
=C2-
After reading Mr. Truemper=99s article and because of some perceived
battery charging issues I was having with my airplane I thought I would che
ck my rectifier according to his instructions in the article section titled
(Testing Regulator/Rectifier). All the tests he listed (the same ones I di
d) fell within the values stated in his article except those tested with th
e Master switch =9Coff=9D. In my case, with the Master switch
=9Coff=9D the voltage to ground on R, B+, and C each measured 1
2.7 VDC in stead of 0 VDC.
=C2-
Again I don=99t have Mr. Truemper=99s wiring diagram, but in th
e wiring diagram shown in the Rotax 912 UL engine installation manual their
wiring diagram indicates that there will be regular 12 VDC battery voltage
on R, B+, and C when the master switch is =9Coff=9D.
=C2-
My question is this: Assuming there is a disconnect switch between terminal
C and B+ in the open position (per instruction from Rotax to protect the b
attery from discharge), with the Master switch in the =9Coff=9D
position should I be measuring 12+VDC to ground on R, B+, and C rather tha
n 0 VDC??
=C2-
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
=C2-
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
=C2-
<Electrical wiring one-line Diagram.pdf>
=C2-
<D29C00CAAAD94829847618F3128C3F05.jpg>
=C2-
<image1.png>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring |
Hugh, the primary function of breakers and fuses is to protect the wire. Th
e size of the wire is sized to the expected load and voltage drop due to wir
e length. Placing a 5 amp breaker ahead of a 30 amp fuse is just a wasted fu
se installation. The fuse will never see a load greater than 5 amps. Replac
ing the 5 amp with a 30 makes the fuse redundant and unnecessary. If the wi
re downstream is incapable of carrying more than 30 amps it becomes the fuse
. I have seen panels that smoked in RV=99s and cars and if it happens
in a plane you want to be able to strip the load with the fewest switches p
ossible. Your drawing will work to isolate the charging circuit only if th
e wire size matches the expected load with the caveat being you have no prot
ection for the wire between the breaker and the battery.
Dave Alberti
> On Nov 21, 2018, at 8:38 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
> I am not an electrical guru so my understanding of electrical terms and fu
nctions in an electrical circuit is very limited. I do need to limit the amo
unt of changes to my panel simply due to space. Therefore, I am attaching a s
canned sketch of what I propose doing, hoping that it will be safe and meet t
he electrical requirements for safe operation of the rectifier and give the i
solation requirements described by Rotax. Please refer to the attached sketc
h and the original one line to compare the proposed changes to the original.
>
> You will note on the sketch that I have a common point where I connect 5 w
ires to a common connection (R, B+, C, the wire from the Capacitor, and the w
ire from the 30 Amp fuse). Between the 30 Amp fuse and the shunt I propose u
sing my existing Breaker 13 (Potter & Brumfield Series W23 Push Button Therm
al circuit breaker W23-X1A1G5 (which is certified to be used as a manual pus
h to close/pull to open disconnect) rated for 5 Amps having a Trip time at 2
00% rating of 6-22 seconds. If necessary I can replace this same identical P
otter & Brumfield breaker with Amp ratings up to 50 Amps. By the way all the
breakers shown on the one line are panel mounted Potter & Brumfield Series W
23 Push Button Thermal circuit breakers. I use these breakers routinely as d
isconnect switches to isolate certain sections of the electrical system on s
tart-up. Do you find any flaws in this sketch?
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Dave Alberti
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 1:28 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
>
> Hugh, I have an actual contractor (looks like a solenoid) from Spruce desi
gned to use for this application. Mine is on the firewall near my battery. M
y comparison position is prior to your ammeter shunt. You would have to wire
your breaker so that when closed it would energize the solenoid to close th
e circuit supplying 12 volts to B+, R and C. I use a switch like Cessna, re
d split battery alternator .
>
> Dave Alberti
>
> On Nov 20, 2018, at 10:31 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for your clarification of the Rotax instruction concerning disconne
cting the battery. I went back and read a similar article by Phil Lockwood c
alled =9CTips and Tricks for the Ideal Rotax 912 Installation=9D
published in 2005. In that article he clearly states that the + battery wir
e that is connected to R, B+, and C must be disconnected from the battery. B
ased on my wiring one line drawing where would you recommend I move Breaker 1
3 to isolate the battery, and should I change the breaker to a larger amp ra
ting?
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Dave Alberti
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 9:41 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
>
> Hugh, that does not isolate the battery, the rotax drawing drops at relay 1
9 and takes all voltage off the regulator at B+ and R. <DADA423704E04780947
357B5BB6383CA.png>
>
> Dave Alberti
> 414-699-9312
>
> On Nov 20, 2018, at 7:59 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> My battery is manually isolated by Breaker 13 shown within the =9Ccl
oud=9D noted as Rev.#1 on the attached one line (better drawing than w
hat I sent previous). All the Breakers mounted on the panel including Breake
r 13 are Potter & Brumfield W23 Push Button Thermal circuit breakers that ca
n also be used as manual isolation switches. I assumed the term =9CMas
ter Switch=9D as used by Mr. Truemper meant the =9CIgnition Swit
ch=9D as seen on my one line. With that switch in the =9Coff
=9D position and Breaker 13 open the voltage to ground on R, B+, and C each m
easured 12.7 VDC in stead of 0 VDC. This is the same wiring arrangement as s
hown in the Rotax 912 Installation Manual, page 46 of 66 Dated 1997 03 26. U
nless I am =9Csomewhere lost in translation=9D, If Mr. Truemper h
as his engine wired according to the Rotax manual (which is the same as mine
, he should also be reading the voltage to ground on R, B+, and C each as 12
+ VDC in stead of 0 VDC
>
> Having said all this, have I lost my mind?? According to the attached one l
ine is my electrical system wired correctly????<D29C00CAAAD94829847618F3128C
3F05.jpg>
>
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Dave Alberti
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:23 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax 912 UL Rectifier wiring
>
> You don=99t show a battery relay to that isolates the battery when a
ll switches are off (as in shutdown) which is in the rotax install wiring di
agram. I believe that is the master that Truemper=99s speaking about
.
>
> Dave Alberti
> 414-699-9312
>
> On Nov 20, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> I need some advice by anyone out there who may be able to clear up a quest
ion I have concerning checking the output wiring of the standard Rotax 912 r
ectifier used with the 912 UL engine. I have this rectifier on my Allegro 2
000 ELSA (912 UL engine). For additional information I am attaching my airpl
ane wiring one line diagram that shows how my rectifier is wired. Also I wan
t to make reference to a Blog article authored by Klaus Truemper titled
=9C18 December 2012 Testing Rotax 912/914 Generator and Rectifier=9D. Y
ou can Google the title and read the article.
>
> In the section of Mr. Truemper=99s article (Testing Regulator/Rectif
ier) where he states =9CWith the Master switch off: The above test (re
ferring to the previous paragraph) should show 0 voltage for all three cases
. I do not know what Mr. Truemper=99s wiring diagram looked like becau
se he did not offer one in his article.
>
> After reading Mr. Truemper=99s article and because of some perceived
battery charging issues I was having with my airplane I thought I would che
ck my rectifier according to his instructions in the article section titled (
Testing Regulator/Rectifier). All the tests he listed (the same ones I did) f
ell within the values stated in his article except those tested with the Mas
ter switch =9Coff=9D. In my case, with the Master switch =9C
off=9D the voltage to ground on R, B+, and C each measured 12.7 VDC in
stead of 0 VDC.
>
> Again I don=99t have Mr. Truemper=99s wiring diagram, but in t
he wiring diagram shown in the Rotax 912 UL engine installation manual their
wiring diagram indicates that there will be regular 12 VDC battery voltage o
n R, B+, and C when the master switch is =9Coff=9D.
>
> My question is this: Assuming there is a disconnect switch between termina
l C and B+ in the open position (per instruction from Rotax to protect the b
attery from discharge), with the Master switch in the =9Coff=9D p
osition should I be measuring 12+VDC to ground on R, B+, and C rather than 0
VDC??
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow. L.M. ASCE
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> Email hgmckay@bellsouth.net
> http://www.geo.com (click on Power Division)
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> <Electrical wiring one-line Diagram.pdf>
>
> <D29C00CAAAD94829847618F3128C3F05.jpg>
>
> <image1.png>
>
> <Allegro 2000 Wiring Sketch.pdf>
> <DADA423704E04780947357B5BB6383CA.png>
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