Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:09 AM - Re: alternative engines (Peter H. Blake)
2. 05:26 AM - alternative engines and Van's opinion (Lucky Macy)
3. 06:13 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (Mark Phillips)
4. 06:24 AM - Re: AD search - how (Randy Compton)
5. 06:50 AM - Alternative engines ad nauseum (Rick Galati)
6. 07:28 AM - Re: Alternative engines ad nauseum (Larry Pardue)
7. 07:34 AM - Re: Alternative engines ad nauseum (James E. Clark)
8. 08:15 AM - Accessory Case (Bill VonDane)
9. 08:54 AM - Alternative engine - expert opinion (Wiethe, Philip (P.J.))
10. 10:40 AM - Re: MT-Propeller (Norman)
11. 10:41 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (George McNutt)
12. 10:44 AM - Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion (Tedd McHenry)
13. 11:25 AM - Alternative engine - expert opinion--other alternatives (JRWillJR@aol.com)
14. 12:15 PM - Re: Cabin Heat (Mark Nielsen)
15. 12:19 PM - Re: Alternative engine - more info--insurance (JRWillJR@aol.com)
16. 01:22 PM - Boeing Seats (Bartrim, Todd)
17. 02:09 PM - Superior XP-360 (Terry Watson)
18. 02:11 PM - Re: Boeing Seats (Stein Bruch)
19. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: MT-Propeller (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
20. 02:55 PM - Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion (Charlie and Tupper England)
21. 03:18 PM - Re: Superior XP-360 (Rv8forduane@aol.com)
22. 03:30 PM - Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion (barry pote)
23. 03:58 PM - Re: Superior XP-360 (F44evr@aol.com)
24. 04:40 PM - Re: Boeing Seats (Bartrim, Todd)
25. 04:43 PM - Rockets vs Van's (Dr. Leathers)
26. 04:52 PM - Re: Superior XP-360 (rv6tc)
27. 05:18 PM - [Fw: Re: Engine options] (Charlie and Tupper England)
28. 05:19 PM - Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion (Charlie and Tupper England)
29. 06:14 PM - jig (T Bronson)
30. 07:01 PM - Re: jig (Bobby Hester)
31. 07:43 PM - Taxes! (Tom Brandon)
32. 08:00 PM - RV8 Kit for sale (Joe Kramer)
33. 08:04 PM - Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion (Charlie Kuss)
34. 08:20 PM - Re: Taxes! (Tom Brandon)
35. 09:10 PM - Re: Superior XP-360 (kempthornes)
36. 09:12 PM - Re: Superior XP-360 (kempthornes)
37. 09:15 PM - Re: Taxes! (Rob Prior)
38. 09:33 PM - Re: Alternative Engine Questions (kempthornes)
39. 09:34 PM - Re: jig (Patrick Kelley)
40. 09:41 PM - Re: Re: battery (Doug Gray)
41. 10:00 PM - Re: Rockets vs Van's (Patrick Kelley)
42. 10:15 PM - Re: for sale O 320 E3D (TColeE@aol.com)
43. 10:19 PM - Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion (Jerry Springer)
44. 11:56 PM - Re: Rockets vs Van's (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: alternative engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Peter H. Blake" <pblake@epix.net>
Tedd - FYI, when I started my RV4 project in 1982 I lived near Van in
Oregon - I asked him then about auto conversions, and he recommended that
the best 'conversion' would be to convert $5000 into a good used Lycoming
(1982 prices obviously). :) do not archive
Peter Blake
RV6, Firewall Forward
Message 2
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| Subject: | alternative engines and Van's opinion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Lucky Macy" <luckymacy@earthlink.net>
"Total Performance"
"Total Performance"
"Total Performance"
"Total Performance"
What's the scoop on Subarus and other alternative engines and aerobatics?
I have not run across any serious discussion on alternative engines, not
just subarus, which are ever flown dozens to hundreds of hours under
aerobatic flight conditions. How many hours under 4Gs is the engine,
reduction system, prop combo test to? How do they handle negative Gs? I
don't know of any RV aerobatic air show demos flown with alternative
engines. Alternative engine peddlers would have to do a lot more bragging
and demos in the aerobatic arena before they'd get my serious attention.
Bragging about flying from coast to coast or at some particular sustained
speed or altitude does not do anything for me. I guess that type of demo
works for the cross country only type of flyer which is also probably why I
notice they seem to be mostly used by RV9 and 6 builders. I'm building an 8
to do more than the $75 hamburger run. I'm sure that also factors in to
Van's "Total Performance" opinion on engines. I hear he used to do acro
demos at some airshows a decade or two ago :-)
A few more times to remember his marketing strategy:
"Total Performance"
"Total Performance"
"Total Performance"
"Total Performance"
Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see alternative engines for a few
different well understood reasons but they have to be proven aerobatic
engine/prop combos.
do not archive
lucky
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
George McNutt wrote:
> Some ELT's pick up comm radio transmissions
> (frequencies close to 121.17) and re-radiate a 13th order harmonic that will
> bother or shut down the GPS.
Hi George-
This is great news, as I was planning for these things about 6" apart! 8
(
But please help me understand the issue. When transmitting on comm, the ELT
antenna, being a conductor about the same length as the comm antenna, can
resonate (magnetically coupled like a transformer?) from the EMF radiated by the
comm and transmit these harmonics? If my muddled assumption is correct, would
the distance and relative orientation of the comm and ELT antennas be a factor
here, and the effects of this coupling reduced by having the comm antenna on the
bottom of the fuse with the ELT along the rollbar? (tip-up canopy- my original
location for the GPS antenna was centered on the top of the cabin brace under
the rear glass)
Thanks for any enlightenment! One day I "may" begin to understand this stuff!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - do not archive -
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List:AD search - how |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Compton" <rdcompton@earthlink.net>
> If the products are non-TSO'd,etc, they do not have ADs, therefore there
is
> nothing to issue an AD against/for.
>
> Mike Robertson
> Das Fed
Looks like this is the way to go. Only use non-TSO'd / PMA'd / STC'd stuff
if you want to avoid potentially arbitrary hassles with the fuzz.
At face value I see where the FAA would think that this regulatory change
will make all of this experimental stuff "safer", and it might. But it
seems to me that the unintended consequence will be that folks now have even
more of an incentive to avoid certified parts and really do some
experimenting.
If the fuzz would have been around in 1903 they'd have grounded Orville and
Wilbur on the spot. With absolutely no aviating going on, they could then
sit in their Washington offices and congratulate themselves on how safe
they've made aviation. Kind of reminds me of the discussion my squadron
operations officer, maintenance officer, and safety officer were having:
Ops says we need to fly more, maintenance says don't fly so much, and safety
says don't fly at all! ;-)
Randy Compton
RV-3 N84VF
Gulf Breeze, FL
Message 5
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| Subject: | Alternative engines ad nauseum |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
Being a "dealer" and an "OEM supplier" are two entirely different job
descriptions. It does Van a disservice to suggest by way of not too
subtle innuendo that his relationship with Lycoming is ulterior and
self-serving. But even if it were, (which I
doubt), Van's choice of a Lycoming powerplant is really a
no-brainer from a dispassionately cold and logical point of view. A review of
Business 101 will quickly illustrate that you'll be more efficient (read
profitable) and simplify your inventory if you strive for commonality, lets
say for instance....oh I don't know, how about ....engine mounts and
cowlings? The costs we all pay for our kits are driven in part by this
irrefutable dynamic. However those who would bemoan this inconvenient
economic reality in part to justify dreams of an alternative power plant
choice, to them I say GO TO. Who's stopping you, except for maybe
those intransigent insurance companies, dubious economics, and more
than one box canyon on the road to Eldorado? The RVs' reputation and
popularity and insurability and safety and sheer numbers are overwhelmingly
based upon a Lycoming up front doing what it does best after
decades of service and millions of hours of operational
experience. Wagging a finger at Van because of this undeniable
reality is like blaming Tiger Woods for keeping women out of
Augusta.
--- Rick Galati
--- rick07x@earthlink.net
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines ad nauseum |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@carlsbad.net>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
>
>
>Being a "dealer" and an "OEM supplier" are two entirely different job
>descriptions. It does Van a disservice to suggest by way of not too
>subtle innuendo that his relationship with Lycoming is ulterior and
>self-serving. But even if it were, (which I
>doubt), Van's choice of a Lycoming powerplant is really a
>no-brainer from a dispassionately cold and logical point of view.
And in support of Van's being open minded, they did seem to make a very
good faith effort to make an alternative engine (Franklin) work on their
airplanes. It reportedly was a nightmare, even with all the engineering
and building skills available there. And this was a real AIRPLANE
engine. Alternatives are not for the faint of heart.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
Message 7
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| Subject: | Alternative engines ad nauseum |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <jclark@conterra.com>
Well put Rick.
You drive home the points I attempted to make although I was a bit more
oblique. :-)
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Galati
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:50 AM
> To: rv-list
> Subject: RV-List: Alternative engines ad nauseum
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Being a "dealer" and an "OEM supplier" are two entirely different job
> descriptions. It does Van a disservice to suggest by way of not too
> subtle innuendo that his relationship with Lycoming is ulterior and
> self-serving. But even if it were, (which I
> doubt), Van's choice of a Lycoming powerplant is really a
> no-brainer from a dispassionately cold and logical point of view.
> A review of
> Business 101 will quickly illustrate that you'll be more efficient (read
> profitable) and simplify your inventory if you strive for
> commonality, lets
> say for instance....oh I don't know, how about ....engine mounts and
> cowlings? The costs we all pay for our kits are driven in part by this
> irrefutable dynamic. However those who would bemoan this inconvenient
> economic reality in part to justify dreams of an alternative power plant
> choice, to them I say GO TO. Who's stopping you, except for maybe
> those intransigent insurance companies, dubious economics, and more
> than one box canyon on the road to Eldorado? The RVs' reputation and
> popularity and insurability and safety and sheer numbers are
> overwhelmingly
> based upon a Lycoming up front doing what it does best after
> decades of service and millions of hours of operational
> experience. Wagging a finger at Van because of this undeniable
> reality is like blaming Tiger Woods for keeping women out of
> Augusta.
>
>
> --- Rick Galati
>
> --- rick07x@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 8
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"vansairforce" <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <n8wv@vondane.com>
Hi all...
I am looking for an accessory case that will fit an O320-E3D that is ready for
a prop governor...
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A ~ 79 hours
www.vondane.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Alternative engine - expert opinion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wiethe, Philip (P.J.)" <pwiethe@ford.com>
First, let me declare myself an expert in the area of Automotive Electronic Powertrain
Control systems
(10 yrs industry experience, 1 patent, others pending). My opinion on the alternate
engine subject is:
The Lycoming WILL eventually be replaced by something better. The question is
not IF, but WHEN.
Whether this will be an automotive engine core modified for aircraft use, micro-turbine,
fusion reactor,
etc, no one can say for sure right now. Kudos to those that are working toward
achieving
that goal. For me personally, I am more interested in getting in the air quickly
and as painlessly as
possible, so I am going with a Lycoming.
Phil
8A wings
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: MT-Propeller |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
Very interesting Martin, thanks alot.
Tell me about how your props handle rain compared to other props. Is rain an
erroding factor?
How long do you expect the blades to last? I fly in the Pacific Northwest
where we get alot of rain. The primary duty of my ship is cross-country so I
expect to fly in rain more than the fair weather local jaunt crowd.
Can you tell me the weight of the 3 blade and hub and spinner? (RV6A/O-360)
If recieving the entire propeller assembled, do you know how much the
shipping cost is the the west coast of North America?
If recieving it unassembled? (then a $400 USD assembly charge?)
Thank-you,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
>
>
> Dear Randy,
>
> of course we like to answer an interested builder a few more questions.
>
> In principal you are right that our natural composite design has a higher
> dumping characteristic than aluminum. What I told you is, that we
performed
> vibration surveys and we found out that in this RPM range of 2050 to 2300
> RPM our propeller with this engine combination has a slightly resonance
and
> therefore do not recommend to operate the propeller continuously in this
> range.
>
> From another certified propeller manufacturer (Hartzell) we know that they
> do not sell the 2-bladed composite propeller for a none counter weighted
> engine due to this resonance problem. If any other experimental propeller
> manufacturer thinks that he has no resonance problem we assume that they
> have never performed a vibration survey in flight and ground.
>
> In any case on our natural composite blade the effects if a propeller is
> operated in a restricted RPM range are never as bad as on aluminum
> propeller and we also have no fatigue problem. Only thing what could
happen
> is that a little bit of grease leakage may occur but this is no
> airworthiness matter with our design.
>
> Please find attached the fact sheet.
>
> Our propeller is certified with the Lycoming engine and therefore only up
> to 2700 RPM. You may get some more hp by turning 50 RPM higher but due to
> the higher blade tip speed you lose propeller efficiency and the only
thing
> you really get is more noise. You can try 2750 but you will not see big
> speed increase from that.
>
> We do not know how the blade erosion on vans demo ship is, but as you can
> see in our fact sheet (enclosed) we have at least the same erosion
> protection as any other aluminum propeller. If you avoid higher RPM on
> ground you do not suck in a lot of foreign particles and therefore make
any
> prop life easier. In case we do know that from our customers we have not
> more or less erosion than any other propeller which is operated the same
> way.
>
> If you order a propeller through Vans it may come assembled or
> disassembled, depending on customer request. We know from our own company
> MT - Propeller USA Inc. in Florida that we charge US$ 400,00. We assume
> American Propeller must be in the same range.
>
> Your color can be matched, if we want to use your original PPG fleet color
> 91040 you can also paint the spinner yourself, but later on the whole
> system must be balanced again.
>
> I hope we answered your questions to your satisfaction.
>
> With best regards,
>
> MT - Propeller Entwicklung GmbH
>
>
> Martin Albrecht
> Engineering
>
Do not archive
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
George McNutt wrote:
> Some ELT's pick up comm radio transmissions
> (frequencies close to 121.17) and re-radiate a 13th order harmonic that
will
> bother or shut down the GPS.
Hi George-
This is great news, as I was planning for these things about 6" apart! 8
(
But please help me understand the issue. When transmitting on comm, the ELT
antenna, being a conductor about the same length as the comm antenna, can
resonate (magnetically coupled like a transformer?) from the EMF radiated by
the
comm and transmit these harmonics? If my muddled assumption is correct,
would
the distance and relative orientation of the comm and ELT antennas be a
factor
here, and the effects of this coupling reduced by having the comm antenna on
the
bottom of the fuse with the ELT along the rollbar? (tip-up canopy- my
original
location for the GPS antenna was centered on the top of the cabin brace
under
the rear glass)
Thanks for any enlightenment! One day I "may" begin to understand this
stuff!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - do not archive -
----------------------------------
Hi Mark
You have got it right and you have stated the problem much better than I
did.
I believe that this problem may occur only with certain makes of ELT's.
My ELT happens to be a ACK E-01 and they are aware of this problem and they
have installed extra filters in my ELT at no charge. This has improved the
problem considerably. I have also installed a pricey Notch Filter on the ELT
antenna line.
According to ACK the signal radiated from the COMM radio can be picked up by
the antenna or also by the unshielded telephone cable from the ELT to the
remote ELT switch. Therefore keep this wire away from antenna leads. In my
case the ELT antenna is the problem.
Installation instructions for the ACK ELT call for the ELT antenna to be a
minimum of five feet from any vertically polarized comm antennas. In my case
I have 4 & 1/2 feet with ELT on top and COMM bent whip on bottom of
fuselage, I may have to move COMM further forward on belly.
Note that this problem only occurs on a few frequencies in the 121.17 mhz
area (GPS harmonic) and when the host aircraft is transmitting. It took some
time to recognized the problem, and it only showed up because I was doing
practice ILS approaches at a airport with tower frequency 121.0 and using
the GPS to locate the outer marker. Symptom is a GPS RAIM warning following
radio transmission.
Both Garmin and UPS have info about this problem in installation
instructions available on their websites, however in the end they say to
contact the ELT manufacturer.
So keep lots of room between COMM, ELT and GPS antennas and their antenna
leads with ELT being the culprit.
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Lucky Macy" <luckymacy@earthlink.net>
>
> What's the scoop on Subarus and other alternative engines and aerobatics?
Lucky:
Disregarding engine peripherals (fuel system, etc.) which could be anything on
a given installation, and disregarding airframe issues (weight, CofG, etc.),
there are two main things to consider for an aerobatic airplane's engine:
inverted oil and non-torsional prop loads (especially gyroscopic prop loads).
The G loads you induce on the engine by flying aerobatics aren't going to be a
big factor, given the loads that internal engine components experience in
normal use. I've heard it suggested that crankshaft gyro loads could be a
problem for an auto conversion, but that hypothesis doesn't stand up to
analysis. You have to remember that your car experiences some pretty high
pitch, roll, and yaw rates too, and often at fairly high RPM.
I've never seen an RV with inverted oil unless it had a Lycoming. I asked
Jabiru about inverted oil for their new 6000 engine, and they said they were
not planning for it. It probably wouldn't be too hard to add inverted oil to
the Jabiru, but presumably it would be more difficult than adding it to a
Lycoming, where there are off-the-shelf solutions. Adding inverted oil to an
auto conversion would probably be more complicated than adding it to a Jabiru
in most cases. So if inverted oil is a priority for you, and you don't want to
tinker, you should go with a Lycoming. That's one of the key reasons I'm using
a Lycoming in my project.
Most 150-200 horsepower auto conversions use a PSRU that isolates the
crankshaft from non-torsional prop loads. So prop loads are a question for the
PSRU manufacturer.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
Message 13
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| Subject: | Alternative engine - expert opinion--other alternatives |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
In a message dated 12/5/2002 10:57:01 AM Central Standard Time,
pwiethe@ford.com writes:
> "fusion reactor", now we are talking. A Mr Fusion like in Back to the
> Future, wow.
Sorry to barge in out of nowhere but when we say Lycoming would we be
including the PMA clones? PMA is Parts Manufacturing Authority so in other
words both the ECI 0360 and the Superior XP360 engines (0320 versions can be
had) EVERY single part in the engines virtually is FAA approved under the PMA
and can be used on a "real" Lycoming. Essentially these engines are composed
of after market parts which with the exception of not having a Lycoming data
plate are equal to or in most cases actually Superior (a pun) to the Lycomong
parts built engines Lycoming sells. Many highly respected overhaul shops have
been using ECI and Superior cylinders, pistons and cranks etc in rebuilds for
many years. The Superior uses an improved induction systen and this next year
will also have a front induction, they have improved lubrication paths,
improved lubrication to the thrust plate bearings, improvements to the
cylinders, both ECI and Superior have beautiful cylinder/piston sets,
improvements to the cases and various other tid bits. These engines are not
cheap but are cheaper than an equivilent Lycoming, actually there is no
direct equivilent because an XP360 is probably a stronger running engine than
the Lycoming 0360 all things being equal. Both of these engines can be had as
a kit or built up by various sources such as Aerosport, Matituck and several
others to customer specifications. They are also aerobatic out of the box.
Yeah, when the supercharged Subie powered RV7/7A passes my RV7/7A I will just
flip over and fly upside down. There are other alternatives to a Lycoming and
they are not converted mass produced auto engines but instead "improved
version" of the venerable Lycoming. Personaly and flame me all you wish but I
think auto engines are mostly hype and rarely do you ever actually see more
than a few and their performance is usually subpar, they do not ever have the
endurance testing, they are generally heavier and stripped of their auto
required emissions controls they are not really all that special. One vendor
mentioned on this list they had accumulated time (additive approx 1000 hours)
on their engines in 20 years. Hmm, that is not very much, I hope I fly more
than 1000 hours in the next 20 years and I plan on some of that being upside
down. I have a Toyota Tundra with the Lexus aluminum V8, the thing can haul
butt, this is a version of the engine which Toyota certified for aviation but
not as it was stated here--the Lexus V8 was never intended for replacing a
Lycoming but instead their market focus was a cheaper--throw
away--replacement for the mighty P&W PT6 on commercial and buisness aircraft.
When and if Toyota and Honda come to market with a Package certified aircraft
I doubt it will need 600 plus horsepower of the Toyota/Lexus Aviation V8.
Instead I feel Toyota will build on their experience gained in that cert
program and market a 4 place modern Lexus aircraft, sold off the Lexus dealer
floors and delievered to your choice of airports with extended support
warranty. The aircraft will likely be life limited and be throw away like an
automobile so that LONGTERM production rates will increae resulting in mass
production and lower costs to offset the huge initial unit loss they will
intentionally swallow to grab market share. It will have Sony radios and it
will all come standard with very few options, highway in the sky concept
stuff. See ya guys. Do Not Archive, no flames meant to anyone, happy Holidays
to all, do not archive. JR
>
>
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Mark Nielsen" <Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com>
>
> I fly in cold climate here in Minnesota so I have two heat
> valves on the firewall
> with the idea of having two heat muffs (Rick Robbins on
> Vetterman crossover
> for an RV6). I have seen the air pick up in two differant
> locations... (1)
> on the forward baffles just inside the cowling air intake
> scoops ahead of the
> engine cylinders and (2) on the aft baffle above the engine
> accessory case and
> then via scat tubing to the muffs. My question is which
> location produces the
> best heat and performance for the cockpit? Pros and cons
> appreciated especially
> from other cold climate flyers.
>
> Dick DeCramer
Dick:
I fly in northeast Wisconsin and have a dual Robbins muff setup as you
describe. For my air inlets I used one of each. The left side inlet
is in the left front lower baffle in front of the #2 cylinder. The
right side inlet is in the right rear baffle -- near the corner, just
above the top of the #3 cylinder. As far as I can tell, both sides
work equally well. However, I haven't made any measurements to see if
one side puts out more heat than the other.
Generally, I would classify my heating system as "not bad". Heat
enters the cabin through two homemade diffusion boxes. The diffusion
boxes are located on the firewall, one on each side, centered above
the pilot/copilots feet. As configured, the system puts out more heat
than I can use, because when I turn on full heat, it "burns my toes".
I find that when the heat is adjusted such that my feet are warm, my
shoulders get a little cold, and I need a jacket to be comfortable.
When it gets cold, I find drafts in the cockpit that I can't feel when
the weather is warm.
When it is very cold, I wear a heavy coat for preflight preparation,
then change to a medium jacket when I am ready to go. (For safety,
the coat goes in the baggage compartment in case of an off airport
landing.) This has always been comfortable for me. The only time I
get cold is when the engine stops making power. When in the pattern,
if I pull power abeam the numbers, I am cold by the time I touch down.
Note: I do NOT have a spring or pot scrubber in my heat muffs. I did
however, restrict the inlet airflow as was recommended in the Robbins
instructions. As I recall, for the inlet I drilled a pattern of 7,
3/8" diameter holes.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6, 792 hrs.
Green Bay, WI
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative engine - more info--insurance |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
Just some more info and then I will scram. I called a couple of insurance
suppliers. They told me they were having problems insuring auto engines
including Subies. They did not say they could not insure them but just that
it was more diffucult--more problems--take that however you wish. I asked
specifically about the "Clone" engines from Superior and ECI and was also
told specifically that insurance for these "aviation type" engines was NOT a
problem so take that how you wish, "they are insured as if they were a
Lycoming". Do Not Archive. Have a wondeful Christmas and Holiday Season to
all. JR
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
Hey List;
I was just offered a row of 3 seats from a 737 that is currently
being upgraded to leather seats. The catch is that I have to drive to
Calgary and take the entire row. Obviously I'm not going to put an entire
seat in my RV, but I'm interested in the cushions as they are covered in the
correct color.
My question to the list is anyone out there familiar with these
seats (other than having to sit in one for many hours)? I assume the foam &
fabric is reasonably fireproof? Is there much that I could use? I've spent
untold hours in these seats, but never gave them a second thought. I'm not
planning on flying on a 737 until Jan, but I have to decide in the next
week, so I won't have an opportunity to examine one. (besides, I imagine it
would upset the flight crew if I began an extensive inspection of my seat
during a flight ;-)).
I really don't know if it is worth it to get these seats, because I
may have to cut open much of the fabric to remove all the metal structure,
trayback, etc.
I've read all about the Orndorff seats and other options, so I'm not
looking for opinions on these. Thanks.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close
they were to success when they gave up"
Thomas A. Edison
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
Boeing Seats
Hey List;
I was just offered a row of 3 seats from a 737 that is currently being upgraded
to leather seats. The catch is that I have to drive to Calgary and take the
entire row. Obviously I'm not going to put an entire seat in my RV, but I'm interested
in the cushions as they are covered in the correct color.
My question to the list is anyone out there familiar with these seats (other than
having to sit in one for many hours)? I assume the foam fabric is reasonably
fireproof? Is there much that I could use? I've spent untold hours in these
seats, but never gave them a second thought. I'm not planning on flying on a
737 until Jan, but I have to decide in the next week, so I won't have an opportunity
to examine one. (besides, I imagine it would upset the flight crew if
I began an extensive inspection of my seat during a flight ;-)).
I really don't know if it is worth it to get these seats, because I may have to
cut open much of the fabric to remove all the metal structure, trayback, etc.
I've read all about the Orndorff seats and other options, so I'm not looking for
opinions on these. Thanks.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
<A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm" TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to
success when they gave up
Thomas A. Edison
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
JR,
Could you explain the "aerobatic out of the box" comment? I have an
XP-I0-360 on order from Bart, and hadn't heard about that. What makes the
engine different in that respect from a Lycoming? What else is needed to
insure negative G lubrication?
Thanks,
Terry
RV-8A #80729 finish
Seattle
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
Both of these engines can be had as
a kit or built up by various sources such as Aerosport, Matituck and several
others to customer specifications. They are also aerobatic out of the box.
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Todd,
Those of us that are lucky enough to have friends that are airline mechanics
have lots of these "cushions" in our shops as the airlines regularly throw
them away. The come in all sizes/shapes, and the seat frames themselves are
worthless. I wouldn't bother.
The cushions are relatively heavy, and basically only one layer of molded
foam rubber. After a couple of years the cushions are worthless. The won't
pass the "float test" anymore, and have become "squished".
About the only thing the cusions are good for is padding while working on
your RV. I've seen numerous RV's on the internet and you can spot the
airline employees right away. They're the ones with airline seat cushions
scattered about their project.
I would say the Orndorff, Lauritsen, or Oregon Aero seats are FAR superior.
I have almost 400,000 miles in airliners this year and you couldn't pay me
to put one of those seats in my RV. I have the Oregon Aero seats and love
them!
Just my opnions!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6, Minneapolis
Flying.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bartrim, Todd
Subject: RV-List: Boeing Seats
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
Hey List;
I was just offered a row of 3 seats from a 737 that is currently
being upgraded to leather seats. The catch is that I have to drive to
Calgary and take the entire row. Obviously I'm not going to put an entire
seat in my RV, but I'm interested in the cushions as they are covered in the
correct color.
My question to the list is anyone out there familiar with these
seats (other than having to sit in one for many hours)? I assume the foam &
fabric is reasonably fireproof? Is there much that I could use? I've spent
untold hours in these seats, but never gave them a second thought. I'm not
planning on flying on a 737 until Jan, but I have to decide in the next
week, so I won't have an opportunity to examine one. (besides, I imagine it
would upset the flight crew if I began an extensive inspection of my seat
during a flight ;-)).
I really don't know if it is worth it to get these seats, because I
may have to cut open much of the fabric to remove all the metal structure,
trayback, etc.
I've read all about the Orndorff seats and other options, so I'm not
looking for opinions on these. Thanks.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close
they were to success when they gave up"
Thomas A. Edison
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
Boeing Seats
Hey List;
I was just offered a row of 3 seats from a 737 that is currently being
upgraded to leather seats. The catch is that I have to drive to Calgary and
take the entire row. Obviously I'm not going to put an entire seat in my RV,
but I'm interested in the cushions as they are covered in the correct color.
My question to the list is anyone out there familiar with these seats
(other than having to sit in one for many hours)? I assume the foam fabric
is reasonably fireproof? Is there much that I could use? I've spent untold
hours in these seats, but never gave them a second thought. I'm not planning
on flying on a 737 until Jan, but I have to decide in the next week, so I
won't have an opportunity to examine one. (besides, I imagine it would upset
the flight crew if I began an extensive inspection of my seat during a
flight ;-)).
I really don't know if it is worth it to get these seats, because I may
have to cut open much of the fabric to remove all the metal structure,
trayback, etc.
I've read all about the Orndorff seats and other options, so I'm not
looking for opinions on these. Thanks.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
<A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm"
TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were
to success when they gave up
Thomas A. Edison
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: MT-Propeller |
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
In a message dated 12/05/2002 10:41:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nhunger@sprint.ca writes:
> How long do you expect the blades to last? I fly in the Pacific Northwest
> where we get alot of rain. The primary duty of my ship is cross-country so
> I
> expect to fly in rain more than the fair weather local jaunt crowd.
>
Hi Norm,
I just got back from Germany.
The Pacific Northwest doesn't know squat about rain, compared to Germany. :-)
And it's a lot colder in Germany, also.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV LOM M332A engine Warnke FP wood prop
Electric CS MT Propeller ready to be balanced
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Lucky Macy wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Lucky Macy" <luckymacy@earthlink.net>
>
> "Total Performance"
> "Total Performance"
> "Total Performance"
> "Total Performance"
>
> What's the scoop on Subarus and other alternative engines and aerobatics?
>
> I have not run across any serious discussion on alternative engines, not
> just subarus, which are ever flown dozens to hundreds of hours under
> aerobatic flight conditions. How many hours under 4Gs is the engine,
> reduction system, prop combo test to? How do they handle negative Gs? I
> don't know of any RV aerobatic air show demos flown with alternative
> engines. Alternative engine peddlers would have to do a lot more bragging
> and demos in the aerobatic arena before they'd get my serious attention.
> Bragging about flying from coast to coast or at some particular sustained
> speed or altitude does not do anything for me. I guess that type of demo
> works for the cross country only type of flyer which is also probably why I
> notice they seem to be mostly used by RV9 and 6 builders. I'm building an 8
> to do more than the $75 hamburger run. I'm sure that also factors in to
> Van's "Total Performance" opinion on engines. I hear he used to do acro
> demos at some airshows a decade or two ago :-)
>
> A few more times to remember his marketing strategy:
>
> "Total Performance"
> "Total Performance"
> "Total Performance"
> "Total Performance"
>
> Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see alternative engines for a few
> different well understood reasons but they have to be proven aerobatic
> engine/prop combos.
>
>
> do not archive
> lucky
>
You need to get out more, Lucky. ;-)
Both Tracy Crook (RV-4 Mazda 13B over 1200 hrs) & Finn Lassen (RV-3 Mazda 13B I
think somewhere around 200 hrs) do acro all the time in their planes. Tracy flys
with 180 hp Lyc powered -4's at the same fuel burn, and his airframe is
relatively 'dirty.'
Charlie
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Superior XP-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rv8forduane@aol.com
Is there such a thing as a "engine kit" that can be assembled like the RV,
and if yes, what's the price difference?
Duane
still dreaming
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion |
--> RV-List message posted by: barry pote <barrypote@comcast.net>
Charlie,
Don't you fly a 'pusher' with a 4.3 Chevy in it?
Barry Pote RV9a
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Superior XP-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: F44evr@aol.com
Here's Mattituck's prices for the XP and SL 360. For the $1000 I think I'll
let the factory build it. <A HREF="http://www.mattituck.com/new/xp36cvr.htm">http://www.mattituck.com/new/xp36cvr.htm
Dave
6/6A
Prime/Not Prime
Slider/tilt
Still working on right wing
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
Hi Stein;
This is what I suspected. Thanks for the info. And thanks to Terry
for your offer of shipment.
do not archive
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close
they were to success when they gave up"
Thomas A. Edison
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stein Bruch [SMTP:stein@steinair.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:18 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Boeing Seats
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Hi Todd,
>
> Those of us that are lucky enough to have friends that are airline
> mechanics
> have lots of these "cushions" in our shops as the airlines regularly throw
> them away. The come in all sizes/shapes, and the seat frames themselves
> are
> worthless. I wouldn't bother.
>
> The cushions are relatively heavy, and basically only one layer of molded
> foam rubber. After a couple of years the cushions are worthless. The
> won't
> pass the "float test" anymore, and have become "squished".
>
> About the only thing the cusions are good for is padding while working on
> your RV. I've seen numerous RV's on the internet and you can spot the
> airline employees right away. They're the ones with airline seat cushions
> scattered about their project.
>
> I would say the Orndorff, Lauritsen, or Oregon Aero seats are FAR
> superior.
> I have almost 400,000 miles in airliners this year and you couldn't pay me
> to put one of those seats in my RV. I have the Oregon Aero seats and love
> them!
>
> Just my opnions!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> RV6, Minneapolis
> Flying.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bartrim, Todd
> To: 'rv-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: RV-List: Boeing Seats
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
>
> Hey List;
> I was just offered a row of 3 seats from a 737 that is currently
> being upgraded to leather seats. The catch is that I have to drive to
> Calgary and take the entire row. Obviously I'm not going to put an entire
> seat in my RV, but I'm interested in the cushions as they are covered in
> the
> correct color.
> My question to the list is anyone out there familiar with these
> seats (other than having to sit in one for many hours)? I assume the foam
> &
> fabric is reasonably fireproof? Is there much that I could use? I've spent
> untold hours in these seats, but never gave them a second thought. I'm not
> planning on flying on a 737 until Jan, but I have to decide in the next
> week, so I won't have an opportunity to examine one. (besides, I imagine
> it
> would upset the flight crew if I began an extensive inspection of my seat
> during a flight ;-)).
> I really don't know if it is worth it to get these seats, because
> I
> may have to cut open much of the fabric to remove all the metal structure,
> trayback, etc.
> I've read all about the Orndorff seats and other options, so I'm
> not
> looking for opinions on these. Thanks.
>
> S. Todd Bartrim
> Turbo 13B rotary powered
> RX-9endurance (FWF)
> C-FSTB (reserved)
> http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
>
> "Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close
> they were to success when they gave up"
> Thomas A. Edison
>
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
>
>
> <META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
> Boeing Seats
>
>
> Hey List;
>
> I was just offered a row of 3 seats from a 737 that is currently being
> upgraded to leather seats. The catch is that I have to drive to Calgary
> and
> take the entire row. Obviously I'm not going to put an entire seat in my
> RV,
> but I'm interested in the cushions as they are covered in the correct
> color.
>
>
> My question to the list is anyone out there familiar with these seats
> (other than having to sit in one for many hours)? I assume the foam
> fabric
> is reasonably fireproof? Is there much that I could use? I've spent untold
> hours in these seats, but never gave them a second thought. I'm not
> planning
> on flying on a 737 until Jan, but I have to decide in the next week, so I
> won't have an opportunity to examine one. (besides, I imagine it would
> upset
> the flight crew if I began an extensive inspection of my seat during a
> flight ;-)).
>
>
> I really don't know if it is worth it to get these seats, because I may
> have to cut open much of the fabric to remove all the metal structure,
> trayback, etc.
>
>
> I've read all about the Orndorff seats and other options, so I'm not
> looking for opinions on these. Thanks.
>
>
> S. Todd Bartrim
>
> Turbo 13B rotary powered
>
> RX-9endurance (FWF)
>
> C-FSTB (reserved)
>
> <A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm"
> TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
>
>
> Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they
> were
> to success when they gave up
>
> Thomas A. Edison
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Rockets vs Van's |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Hey Guys,
I'm looking really hard at the RVs. I've been studying the line for about a
year. Of course I've seen the Harmon Rockets and the F1 Rockets as well. I
understand that the Rockets are based on Van's RV4, but modified to accept
the (I)O 540. My question to all of you is, why has Van's not offered an
Ultimate 8, so to speak?
I once e-mailed Van's and asked if they ever would consider the concept. I
received an single syllable answer "NO"
People are buying these Rockets. It sound like a great machine. I have seen
some beauties at airshows. Van's has the corner on quality and ease of
build. Does anyone know why they don't corner the market in the genre, and
offer a hotrod like the Rockets?
DOC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RV-List: engines
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Well,
>
> as I said earlier, to list all the differences would fill the list, and it
> did. ;{)
>
> I'm not knocking the use of an auto conversion for those of you who have
the
> design background to do this and not kill anybody.
>
> I think it more important to focus on the use of automotive technology in
> aeromotive. There is a long history of this, from flange and hardware
> standards, hose and plumbing standards, ignition system standards, etc all
> came out of the SAE standards.
>
> To me, I could care less what makes the airplane go forward. I only care
> that it keeps doing it, and it is reasonable in cost. The best advance in
> technology would be a 10000 hour power reduction unit with three small
> $2000/1000 hr centrifugal turbine engines attached that operate at 3500
degs
> so they compare to a recip on fuel economy.
>
> Shut one off for cruise, and two off for descent. Throw them away every
1000
> hours TTIS.
>
> This would allow someone to gear up for mass producing these units as they
> would be excellent for GPUs and for hybrid autos. But we still need to
> invent some materials that can handle the heat and vibration and be light.
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Superior XP-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@earthlink.net>
A year ago they (Superior) were selling the kit version of the XP-360 for
$16,900. That didn't include accessories, but did include phone support
from Mattituck. I guess there was a good market as they now sell the kit
(SL-360) through Mattituck for $19,900. I was a potential buyer until they
ratcheted up the price $3,000.
Keith Hughes
RV-6
Denver
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rv8forduane@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Superior XP-360
> --> RV-List message posted by: Rv8forduane@aol.com
>
> Is there such a thing as a "engine kit" that can be assembled like the RV,
> and if yes, what's the price difference?
>
> Duane
> still dreaming
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | [Fwd: RE: Engine options] |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Saw this in a parallel thread on another list & couldn't resist.
(much snipped)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bd4-request@northwest-aero.com
> [mailto:bd4-request@northwest-aero.com]On Behalf Of amsp3@att.net
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 1:23 PM
> To: bd4@northwest-aero.com
> Subject: RE: Engine options
>
>
> hello
> your right about the power settings. if you go to the xp-360
> web site they
> give a nice chart for the dif power settings rich and lean. there
> can be a very
> dif amount of fuel flow in just leaning compaired to running
> rich. the hp only
> goes down just a little to between them also.
> im not going to get into the thing of what is better a auto
> or aircraft
> engine. that is a choice depending on situation. i know how
> people say in the
> late 60's could get a lyc 360 for $3,500. and now cant fig why so
> much. the
> average car was also about $3,500. you can get the xp-360 engine
> for 20k ready
> to run and the average car is about 20k. i see it as the aircraft
> engine was
> also expensive in the 60's as it is now in 2002. you can still
> find good deals
> on the 320s especially the 150 hp engines. then can always go to
> 160 hp without
> to much.
>
> stephan
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Engine options
From: "Johnny" <nwaero@northwest-aero.com>
Bad analogy. You still get the same old Lyc, but now for $20k. The new car
you get makes the '60's one look like a flinstones mobile.
-j-
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
barry pote wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: barry pote <barrypote@comcast.net>
>
> Charlie,
> Don't you fly a 'pusher' with a 4.3 Chevy in it?
>
> Barry Pote RV9a
>
Charlie who? (No context included in your post.)
do not archive
Message 29
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--> RV-List message posted by: "T Bronson" <bipetype@hotmail.com>
Hi folks,
Anyone out there have a few pictures of a wing/empennage jig that they can
e-mail to me, or have pix on a web site? Thanks.
bipetype@hotmail.com
Tim
Pittsburgh
do not archive
Message 30
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--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@apex.net>
T Bronson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "T Bronson" <bipetype@hotmail.com>
>
>Hi folks,
>
>Anyone out there have a few pictures of a wing/empennage jig that they can
>e-mail to me, or have pix on a web site? Thanks.
>
>bipetype@hotmail.com
>
>Tim
>Pittsburgh
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
Check my site, I have some that might help!
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Working on the wings :-)
Message 31
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--> RV-List message posted by: Tom Brandon <tbrandon@shaw.ca>
Hi Terence:
This is Tom Brandon back with you, the American building an RV7A on
Vancouver Island. I just found out some bad news today. It seems I'm going
to have to pay the Canadian Government $6,000 or $7,000 in taxes for the
privilege of building up here. I'm going to have to pay PST & GST on the kit
I import. Are any of of your members tax lawyers? Can you give us any
advice? Darren & I are trying to find out if it's a mistake, but so far, no
luck.
Thanks
Tom Brandon
Message 32
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| Subject: | RV8 Kit for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Joe Kramer" <JRKramer@cox.net>
Empennage completed. Left wing and tank 65% completed. Phoenix, ,AZ
Joe @ 623-202-8223 for more info
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
>
>Both Tracy Crook (RV-4 Mazda 13B over 1200 hrs) & Finn Lassen (RV-3 Mazda 13B
I
>think somewhere around 200 hrs) do acro all the time in their planes. Tracy flys
>with 180 hp Lyc powered -4's at the same fuel burn, and his airframe is
>relatively 'dirty.'
>
>Charlie
Charlie
Tracy is also VERY careful to perform only 1 and 2 G maneuvers with his 4. Most
PSRU manufacturers will tell you straight out that they did not design the units
to tolerate acro.
Charlie Kuss
Message 34
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--> RV-List message posted by: Tom Brandon <tbrandon@shaw.ca>
Sorry! Wrong Address
Do not Archive
On 12/5/02 7:39 PM, "Tom Brandon" <tbrandon@shaw.ca> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tom Brandon <tbrandon@shaw.ca>
>
> Hi Terence:
> This is Tom Brandon back with you, the American building an RV7A on
> Vancouver Island. I just found out some bad news today. It seems I'm going
> to have to pay the Canadian Government $6,000 or $7,000 in taxes for the
> privilege of building up here. I'm going to have to pay PST & GST on the kit
> I import. Are any of of your members tax lawyers? Can you give us any
> advice? Darren & I are trying to find out if it's a mistake, but so far, no
> luck.
> Thanks
> Tom Brandon
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Superior XP-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 06:56 PM 12/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: F44evr@aol.com
>
>Here's Mattituck's prices for the XP and SL 360. For the $1000 I think I'll
>let the factory build it
Probably a good idea if you haven't built any engines before. If you've
done some auto or even motorcyles then why not build this simple
engine? What do you save for your labor? Maybe $100 per hour?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Superior XP-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 06:17 PM 12/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Rv8forduane@aol.com
>
>Is there such a thing as a "engine kit" that can be assembled like the RV,
A runout Lycoming? But wait till the RV is nearly done.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 37
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--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
I know it was sent to the wrong address, but for anyone listening who's
interested, the taxes to build in Canada *are* horrendous.
$17000 US for kit. 1.55x = $26350 CDN. 0.145x = $3821 CDN Tax, paid at
the CAN-US border on import. And that's just for the kit. Count on
twice that, to cover the taxes on instruments, engine, etc. over the
life of your project, unless you buy parts locally.
Advice: Keep all receipts, and keep all records of things you import
tax-free. You are allowed certain exemptions each time you are out of
the country, so keep track of what you bring back (if it's related to
the aircraft). If you can't show at the end of the day that you've paid
all taxes on all components, or were exempt on some components, the
Canadian government will charge you 7.5% Provincial and 7% gGvernment
Sales Tax on the market value of the completed aircraft.
Just one of the benefits of being a Canadian, I guess... 8-)
-RB4
RV7 Empennage
Tom Brandon wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tom Brandon <tbrandon@shaw.ca>
>
> Hi Terence:
> This is Tom Brandon back with you, the American building an RV7A on
> Vancouver Island. I just found out some bad news today. It seems I'm going
> to have to pay the Canadian Government $6,000 or $7,000 in taxes for the
> privilege of building up here. I'm going to have to pay PST & GST on the kit
> I import. Are any of of your members tax lawyers? Can you give us any
> advice? Darren & I are trying to find out if it's a mistake, but so far, no
> luck.
> Thanks
> Tom Brandon
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engine Questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 10:20 AM 12/2/2002 -0800, Tedd wrote:
>The question being
>addressed is "can an auto engine be successfully converted for aircraft use?"
And the answer is a resounding "YES". Y'all got that? I'm sure you know
of Bernie Pietenpol, Steve Wittman, Jeff Meyers and Tracy Crook. They all
had/have airplanes powered by converted auto engines. We are always
speaking of auto engines that have been converted or adapted. These
people have demonstrated beyond all shadow of doubt that an auto engine can
power an aircraft to a landing point higher than the takeoff point.
What is so different about an auto engine, physically? These guys all used
liquid cooled engines with radiators and plumbing as did the P51
Mustang. The latter two had reduction drives - PSRUs - So did the
Mustang, of course. Usually, the critical difference is weight. I figured
that if I put a Chevy V-6 in my airplane it would be like flying with a
Young Eagle all the time. Hopefully, it wouldn't get airsick :-)
What if we had a powerplant like the Mustang's for our RVs?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster@flion.com>
You can see one for the -6/6A at www.flion.com, including an
illustration. It's freestanding, adjustable, and wood (i.e. cheaper
than a metal jig). I believe the other models are similar with
dimensional variation, since you didn't mention what you are building.
Good luck.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Forward fuselage structure in process.
-----Original Message-----
To: RV-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: jig
--> RV-List message posted by: "T Bronson" <bipetype@hotmail.com>
Hi folks,
Anyone out there have a few pictures of a wing/empennage jig that they
can
e-mail to me, or have pix on a web site? Thanks.
bipetype@hotmail.com
Tim
Pittsburgh
do not archive
Message 40
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--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
>
Sam is proposing the Panasonic LC-RD1217P which for $18 is a steal.
I have downloaded the data for this battery and comparing it with the
Odyssey see one difference which may be significant to their relative
performance.
The internal resistance of the Panasonic is 12 milliohm, the Odyssey 7
milliohm. The internal voltage drop and power dissipation (significant
during starting) within the Panasonic will be nearly double that of the
Odyssey.
I would guess this would halve the useful life of the Panasonic in
comparison with the Odyssey. Time will tell and I would like to hear how
well the Panasonic does hold up. I was not planning to include a battery
in my onboard spares kit.
Doug Gray
RV-6 fuse
> Here are details of the little battery I retrofitted to my RV-6:
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/battery.htm
>
> The battery spins the O-320 just as well a "big" battery. One of our
> local flyers cranks the IO-360 in his RV-8 with a little battery as
> well.
>
> And...I can get the little battery locally for $18.00!!
> > At the risk of starting a battery war.
> >
> > But here goes
> >
> > Does anybody have a good or bad experience with the Odessey model 680
> > turning a Lycoming 360??
> >
Message 41
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| Subject: | Rockets vs Van's |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster@flion.com>
This has been beat to death in the archives, so you can look for details
and all the various opinions there. The quick tell is that Van has
other fish to fry. He's currently working on a 4-place RV and a
motorglider; the former because there seems to be a demand for it and
the latter because he wants to. He considers the RV-7 and RV-8 to be
'souped-up' versions of his original SBS and tandem designs,
respectively; perhaps one day he will take it farther. If you mentioned
Rockets in your query to him it would explain the terse reply; he has
said before that he considers the Rockets to be too much power for the
airframe as he designed it. Van is fairly conservative regarding his
designs, which is one reason he has been so successful.
I'm not sure what the ratio of Rockets to unmodified airframes there are
out there, but my guess is that it's not a large enough market for Van
to consider a separate kit for. Like I said, for details on the pros,
cons, and Van's opinions, check the archives.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - framing forward fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Leathers
Subject: RV-List: Rockets vs Van's
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Hey Guys,
I'm looking really hard at the RVs. I've been studying the line for
about a
year. Of course I've seen the Harmon Rockets and the F1 Rockets as well.
I
understand that the Rockets are based on Van's RV4, but modified to
accept
the (I)O 540. My question to all of you is, why has Van's not offered an
Ultimate 8, so to speak?
I once e-mailed Van's and asked if they ever would consider the concept.
I
received an single syllable answer "NO"
People are buying these Rockets. It sound like a great machine. I have
seen
some beauties at airshows. Van's has the corner on quality and ease of
build. Does anyone know why they don't corner the market in the genre,
and
offer a hotrod like the Rockets?
DOC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RV-List: engines
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Well,
>
> as I said earlier, to list all the differences would fill the list,
and it
> did. ;{)
>
> I'm not knocking the use of an auto conversion for those of you who
have
the
> design background to do this and not kill anybody.
>
> I think it more important to focus on the use of automotive technology
in
> aeromotive. There is a long history of this, from flange and hardware
> standards, hose and plumbing standards, ignition system standards, etc
all
> came out of the SAE standards.
>
> To me, I could care less what makes the airplane go forward. I only
care
> that it keeps doing it, and it is reasonable in cost. The best advance
in
> technology would be a 10000 hour power reduction unit with three small
> $2000/1000 hr centrifugal turbine engines attached that operate at
3500
degs
> so they compare to a recip on fuel economy.
>
> Shut one off for cruise, and two off for descent. Throw them away
every
1000
> hours TTIS.
>
> This would allow someone to gear up for mass producing these units as
they
> would be excellent for GPUs and for hybrid autos. But we still need to
> invent some materials that can handle the heat and vibration and be
light.
>
>
=
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: for sale O 320 E3D |
--> RV-List message posted by: TColeE@aol.com
Rollie: The Sensenich prop is a fixed pitch 70 CM 6S16-0-78. I sure
hope you could use it. I think If you call Sensenich they will be able to
tell you the bolt size. I think it is listed in the numbers above. It is a
new prop never used . Bruce the owner is out of town again. I have hade a lot
of interest in it. let me know soon if you can use it Sorry but he wants to
sell it as a package. but I may be able to work something out. Good to here
from you. hope all is going well.
Terry E. Cole
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: alternative engines and Van's opinion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Charlie Kuss wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
>
>>
>>Both Tracy Crook (RV-4 Mazda 13B over 1200 hrs) & Finn Lassen (RV-3 Mazda 13B
I
>>think somewhere around 200 hrs) do acro all the time in their planes. Tracy flys
>>with 180 hp Lyc powered -4's at the same fuel burn, and his airframe is
>>relatively 'dirty.'
>>
>>Charlie
>
>
> Charlie
> Tracy is also VERY careful to perform only 1 and 2 G maneuvers with his 4. Most
PSRU manufacturers will tell you straight out that they did not design the
units to tolerate acro.
> Charlie Kuss
>
When someone says that they have over 1200 hours on an auto engine I have questions
about the process. I know Tracy is an expert and I wish him all the best in his
quest for an alternative engine. Now the question is how many times has the engine
been apart in that 1200 hours? How many times have parts been replaced? Is this
just
an install and run for 1200 hours? Or is it a continual upgrade? My guess is and
I
could be wrong :) this engine has been apart several times. Anyone know anythig
different?... I just went and looked at Tracy's web site and it appears that during
this time there has been PSRU upgrades and replacements and even engine changes.
Total time on an airframe with an auto engines does not count. What is the total
time
on the engine without major work is the question.
Jerry
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Rockets vs Van's |
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
Why should Van's offer a competing design? Every HR2 starts out as a RV-4
kit, which he sells.
Jim Ayers
RV-4 sn 2708 (HR2 sn 269)
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