Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:34 AM - References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions (JRWillJR@aol.com)
2. 01:42 AM - Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions (JRWillJR@aol.com)
3. 02:32 AM - Re: Continous Priming Option?? (KAKlewin@aol.com)
4. 06:37 AM - Re: alternat. engines discussion (D. Wayne Stiles)
5. 06:50 AM - 0-360 (Wheeler North)
6. 06:53 AM - Re: How do you put a tire and tube together (glenn williams)
7. 06:55 AM - Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping (Charlie Kuss)
8. 06:57 AM - TBO (Wheeler North)
9. 06:59 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 63 Msgs - 12/12/02 (Wheeler North)
10. 07:03 AM - Flight Bag (Wheeler North)
11. 07:10 AM - Re: Continous Priming Option?? (Mark Phillips)
12. 07:24 AM - Oil Temp Sender? (Mark Phillips)
13. 07:43 AM - Re: Continous Priming Option?? (Ross Schlotthauer)
14. 07:46 AM - RV7 - F715 Seat Rib (Ross Schlotthauer)
15. 07:47 AM - Re: Flight Bag (Dwight Frye)
16. 08:17 AM - Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping (Mike Robertson)
17. 08:21 AM - Re: baggage floor and platenuts (Karen and Robert Brown)
18. 08:24 AM - mixture return spring (Sam Buchanan)
19. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: alternat. engines discussion (Tedd McHenry)
20. 08:47 AM - Re: Continous Priming Option?? (Randy Lervold)
21. 10:05 AM - Re: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib (Dan Checkoway)
22. 10:29 AM - Re: 360 makes 180 hp (Wheeler North)
23. 10:33 AM - Re: Continous Priming Option?? (Jim Jewell)
24. 10:46 AM - Alternative Engines (Bartrim, Todd)
25. 11:01 AM - Re: TBO (JRWillJR@aol.com)
26. 11:02 AM - Re: Oil Temp Sender? (Jim Jewell)
27. 11:26 AM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Elsa & Henry)
28. 11:39 AM - Re: Continous Priming Option?? (Mark Phillips)
29. 12:01 PM - Re: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib (Ross Schlotthauer)
30. 12:22 PM - Re: TBO (Tedd McHenry)
31. 12:54 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Elsa & Henry)
32. 12:56 PM - Service Bulletin (Rick Galati)
33. 01:37 PM - Re: TBO (glenn williams)
34. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: 360 makes 180 hp (glenn williams)
35. 01:58 PM - Re: TBO & alternative engines. (Tracy Crook)
36. 02:03 PM - Lightspeed hall effect module failure (czechsix@juno.com)
37. 02:09 PM - Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping (czechsix@juno.com)
38. 02:11 PM - Re: Re: alternat. engines discussion (lm4@juno.com)
39. 02:19 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Doug Weiler)
40. 02:41 PM - Re: TBO (JRWillJR@aol.com)
41. 02:51 PM - Alternate Engines (John)
42. 03:08 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure (Jim Norman)
43. 03:53 PM - Re: Alternate Engines (Terry Watson)
44. 03:57 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure (Brian Denk)
45. 04:05 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure (Jim Jewell)
46. 04:39 PM - Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) (Carl Froehlich)
47. 05:03 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Randy Lervold)
48. 05:11 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) (Jim Jewell)
49. 05:17 PM - Re: Re: 360 makes 180 hp (kempthornes)
50. 05:37 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) (John)
51. 05:50 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) (John)
52. 05:50 PM - Alt Engine-- Loyd/Subaru? (Jack Blomgren)
53. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: 360 makes 180 hp (Bill Christie)
54. 05:57 PM - Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions (Jim Jewell)
55. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: 360 makes 180 hp (Jim Jewell)
56. 06:41 PM - Alternate Engines (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
57. 06:46 PM - Service Bulletin (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
58. 07:40 PM - Low flight (Wheeler North)
59. 07:43 PM - Re: I took the plunge (David Taylor)
60. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: I Took the Plunge (David Taylor)
61. 08:25 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) (Carl Froehlich)
62. 08:34 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure (Charlie Kuss)
63. 08:42 PM - TBO (Eustace Bowhay)
64. 09:05 PM - Re: Re: 360 makes 180 hp (Jim Jewell)
65. 09:05 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure (Charlie Kuss)
66. 09:05 PM - Re: Oil Temp Sender? (Charlie Kuss)
67. 09:24 PM - Alternative Engine Questions (JRWillJR@aol.com)
68. 09:34 PM - Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? (Norman)
69. 09:36 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Vanremog@aol.com)
70. 09:36 PM - Re: Alternate Engines (Jim Jewell)
71. 10:19 PM - Re: low level etc (Wheeler North)
72. 10:46 PM - Re: Re: low level etc (JRWillJR@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
Engines are not normally certified as you mention, part of an airframe. A
certified engine is always a certified engine as long as it is kept in it's
original TC conduction and logs, etc., or kept properly. It may not be
acceptable per a particular airframe TC for use in that airframe but it is
nonetheless certified.
True, the RV is not certified but Vans has designed and tested the aircraft
along the lines of the FAR's and aside from the sporty handling (stability
issues) they are probably close enough for our purposes to be considered
proven airframes, we know the weaknesses and problem areas etc. and there are
many 1000 hour RV's and 2000 hour RVs but none that I know of (could be
wrong) with all those hours behind anything other than a Lyc.
"not been mentioned, those Lyosaurs (emotive
word) that have a 2000 between......even if you buy a new one.....do
they go that long without some major work? Check the ads "400 since
major, 100 since head"." 1000 since major, 0 since top".
as previously stated not all engines run TBO, especially those flown
infrequently. I ran my 0235 Yankee 1850ish hours and it had excellent
compression and good oil analysis when I sold it. It required only normal
maintenance. My father and law's 0360 Cardinal went 2300 hours before
overhaul and it still had good compression and good oil analysis and was
mostly within limits when torn down. My neighbors 0360 powered spam can has
1900 hours since new over a 20 year period, I did his service and it has good
compression, no history of repairs in the log book other than normal
maintenance items, good oil analysis, the Cessna 172 I am doing some of my
Commercial in and got my Instrument in is pushing 2000 hours on second major,
it runs good, has good compression and oil analysis is beginning to indicate
some acceleration of wear. All of these have made TBO without anything but
normal oil changes, plugs, timing, mag maintenance etc.
The 5 minute thing--nah, not true of the 0360/0320/0235, it is full rated
power for TBO and that would include tubo normalized engines with STC's etc.I
have a friend in AZ, turbonormalized Cardinal. It just went in for overhaul
with over 2100 hours since reman. No interveneing issues. These are more
common than not but of course there are always exceptions. I have seen a few
that have been seriously abused and yet they kept chugging. Lycomings are
hard to kill but it can be done. Then you get things like the recent crank
problems at Lycoming so there you go. Do Not Archive. JR
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
In a message dated 12/12/2002 2:25:11 PM Central Standard Time,
BELTEDAIR@aol.com writes:
> Well, JR you just explained why Cont. and Lyc. can't make any progress
> either.
Fair enough but I guess my feeling is that offering an equally ancient V6
pushrod design from Chevy is not progress either though it may well be less
expensive and equally durable. Did not mean to stir you guys up. We just
having a discussion aren't we? I have learned alot from this thread and
realize how much I don't know. Do Not Archive. JR
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Continous Priming Option?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: KAKlewin@aol.com
Ernest, et. all,
I think I may go with my previous push to prime momentary switch, and then
installed a guarded switch somewhere in the panel that will provide continuos
power. That way you have the safety of not bumping it and still have the
option to use it...
Kurt
Do Not Archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: alternat. engines discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "D. Wayne Stiles" <dwstiles@hotmail.com>
I may be wrong, but if my memory is correct, The Subaru boxer-type (4
horizontally opposed cylinders--just like guess who?) engine was originally
designed and developed for a proposed Japanese light aircraft program. The
aircraft program was aborted and the engine design shelved until Subaru
needed a compact low center of gravity engine for their small 4wd vehicles.
If my recollection is correct what we have is an aircraft designed engine,
redeveloped for auto use--now being returned to its original purpose.
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Who says??? Does Lycoming say that the O360 is designed to put out 180 hp
FULL TIME? Is this a FACT or just a BELIEF of yours?
Both the FAA and the manufacturer have certified this via the standard
airworthiness type certification process!
Type Certificate E-285
Model O-360 O-360 O-360-C2D
-A1A, -A1AD, -A1C, -A1D,
-A1F, -A1F6, -A1F6D,
-A1G, -A1G6, -A1G6D,
-A1H, -A1H6, -A1LD, -A1P,
-A2A, -A2D, -A2E, -A2F,
-A2G, -A2H, -A3A, -A3AD,
-A3D, -A4A, -A4AD, -A4D,
-A4G, -A4J, -A4K, -A4M,
-A4N, -A4P,-A5AD, -C1A,
-C1C, -C1E, -C1F, -C1G,
-C2A, -C2B, -C2C,-C2E,
-C4P,-C4F, -F1A6, -G1A6,
-B1A, -B1B, -B2A,
-B2B, -B2C, -D1A,
-D2A, -D2B
LO-360-A1G6D, -A1H6
Type 4HO-A Direct Drive # # #
Rating
Rated Max. continuous hp., rpm,
full throttle at:
Sea level press. alt. 180-2700
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: How do you put a tire and tube together |
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams <willig10@yahoo.com>
Again we are looking at rv tires not business jet or
space shuttle tires. Our tires have extremely low
volume and pressure. A typical main wheel tire on a
business jet is holding anywhere between 180 to 210
p.s.i. our tires are nowhere near that.
Glenn Williams
A&P Fort Worth
do not archive
--- donald hostetler <loclas@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "donald hostetler"
> <loclas@hotmail.com>
>
> Ask the experts. See page 4:
>
>
http://195.154.239.169/aviation/care/files/08%20General%20Mounting%2Epdf
>
> If it's good enough for the space shuttle it's good
> enough for me.
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
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>
>
>
>
>
=====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Mark,
The previous responses to your question all gave good advice. Before simply replacing
the bolt, do this. Install a new bolt about 4 turns into the threaded
hole with nothing else attached. Wiggle the bolt side to side and note the amount
the bolt deflects. Now repeat the process with the same bolt installed in
a new steel nut of the appropriate size and thread. If there is more side play,
the female threads are damaged. Chasing them with a tap won't help. The bolt
will strip again later. Better to fix it now than to lose the whole wheel pant
later. You will need to install a HeliCoil thread repair insert.
If the threads check out OK, apply Never Seize as previously suggested. You won't
need the Never Seize in any HeliCoiled hole. The HeliCoil insert is stainless
steel, so no galvanic reaction will take place.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A fitting F-816 sill plates
Boca Raton, Fl.
>--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
>Guys,
>
>Had a weird thing happen today...I remounted my nosewheel fairing to
>check the fit and when I went to remove it, I had a hard time getting the forward
bracket bolts out (the ones with a hex head--this is the
>new-style wheel pant on my RV-8A if that makes a difference, but I think
>they're all the same). They seemed be binding up during removal, and
>once I got them out, there was metal on the threads....almost like it
>stripped out some of the internal threads tapped into the nosegear fork.
>I'm totally mystified because they went in pretty easy (didn't have any
>signs of being cross-threaded) and I didn't torque them down, just barely snug
enough to check the wheel pant fit. I've had them in and out at least a dozen
times now during the fitting process for the nosewheel pant.
>
>I'm thinking I'll try running a tap through to clean up the threads and
>maybe get a couple new bolts from the local hardware store (if I can find them),
but...has anyone else with a training wheel had problems like this? I'm not
even flying yet so I'm not too encouraged with the
>longevity of this arrangement as it will have to be removed/replaced
>periodically. The threads are looking pretty messed up.
>
>Maybe I should have got a taildragger afterall : )
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
TBO is established by the manufacturer at 100% continuous power. There is an
AC on this somewhere that is very tedious, but I have read it at least once.
What usually reduces TBO is thermal cycling and corrosion. If you fire up an
engine and run it for 2000 hours straight, stopping only to change the oil
every 50 hours, it will probably make it at 100% power.
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 63 Msgs - 12/12/02 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Hey JT,
I got my letter yesterday.
Man, you are too hard on your boss, it wasn't that hard to comprehend.
thanks for the great service.
W
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
You guys that didn't get the flight bag really lost out,
I got mine the other day and gave it to my wife.
you talk about points...
reminds me of the old joke...
"tonight's the night"
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Continous Priming Option?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Along this same line- Is there any reason not to run the primer to all four
intake ports (four cylinder operation on emergency "prime") and tap into one of
the intake tubes for manifold pressure? (using EIS MAP sensor) I'm thinking a
small hollow stainless bolt run through a #12 hole in #3 intake runner maybe an
inch below the top, with a washer on each side and a metal locknut to secure,
sealed with JB weld or red RV. A 1/4" hose clamped around the bolt threads and
run to the sensor. Criticism (as always!) appreciated!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark RV-6A , starting on cowling - do not archive -
Message 12
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| Subject: | Oil Temp Sender? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
On my O-320 (E3D) there is what appears to be a sender unit on top of
the spin-on oil filter housing, directly in front of the filter. I can
find no reference in the Lycoming manuals. I have the drawing of the
rear accessory case and it shows a temp sender on the rear of the filter
screen housing (which is not like my engine). What it is? If oil p. or
t., can this be used for the EIS input?
TIA from The PossumWorks
Mark -6A, firewall forwardish...
Message 13
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| Subject: | Continous Priming Option?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
George,
The spring on the mixture arm sounds like an excellent
idea. I will be noting that one for future refernce.
Thanks,
Ross Schlotthauer
RV7 Fuse
--- George McNutt <gmcnutt@intergate.ca> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt"
> <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
>
>
> Subject: RV-List: Continous Priming Option??
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: KAKlewin@aol.com
>
> Howdy again all,
>
> In discussing my primer set up with a fellow RV9
> builder and A&P he made a
> suggestion I would like to run by the list. I have
> the standard electric
> primer sold by vans that runs a 1/8in line to 3 cyl
> that is controlled by a
> momentary on switch in the panel. He suggested
> that maybe I change the
> switch to an ON/OFF switch so you could run the
> primer continuously.
>
> Kurt in OKC
> RV6A Finishing....
>
> Hi Kurt
>
>
> Nice to see a new topic, the alternative engine
> issue has become a lot like
> the discussion my wife & I had many years ago about
> the toilet seat being
> left up or down, no matter about facts, I was wrong!
>
>
> I don't recommend that suggested primer switch idea
> for following reasons.
>
> 1) If you have ever witnessed a engine fire during
> start caused by over
> priming, backfire, you might not like the idea.
> Amazing how big that ball of
> flame can be, maybe big enough to make you panic and
> jump out with your fire
> extinguisher leaving the master switch ON and the
> primer continuing to fuel
> the fire.
>
> 2) Switch would have to be a garded and/or spring
> loaded to OFF otherwise
> inadvertantly activating the switch in flight
> (bumped in turbulance, night
> etc) could cause engine problems.
>
> 3) This would be a non-standard setup and might
> someday cause a problem for
> some other pilot or owner (read liability).
>
> I had the same thoughts as you about the primer
> being used to run the engine
> if mixture control broke and went to idle, in fact I
> plumbed all four
> cylinders for prime and opened up the primer nozzels
> slightly. I have a
> pushbutton primer switch.
>
> It will run on the primer (12-1300 RPM) on ground,
> (rich and rough) but I
> have not tested engine in flight to see what
> happens, instead I put a small
> spring on mixture arm to return mixture to rich if
> the cable fails.
>
> George McNutt
> Langley, B.C.
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | RV7 - F715 Seat Rib |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
Dear List,
Can anyone out there tell me the appropriate time to
drill the F715 seat ribs to the bottom center section
skin and the seat skins. I can't find it in the
plans.
Thanks,
Ross Schlotthauer
RV-7 Fuse
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
On Fri Dec 13 10:01:26 2002, Wheeler North wrote :
>You guys that didn't get the flight bag really lost out,
>
>I got mine the other day and gave it to my wife.
>
>you talk about points...
>
>reminds me of the old joke...
>
>"tonight's the night"
You too? Since I can't afford to fly *and* build right now I
gave the bag to my wife. She is using it as a knitting travel
bag. :) After 20+ years of marrage I've learned to earn my
points when and where I can!
-- Dwight
do not archive (though, I do think this is valuable advice!)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Mark,
What you are describing is probably galling, which means that the threads
are most likely toast and jsut running a tap through the hole may not do it.
You will more than likely need to go up one size in the bolt, drill out
and re-tap the hole. Whenever you put a steel bolt in an aluminum structure
the bolt needs to be lubricated by some means to reduce the chances of
galling happening.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A, 6A, 9A
>From: czechsix@juno.com
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping
>Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 19:17:06 GMT
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
>Guys,
>
>Had a weird thing happen today...I remounted my nosewheel fairing to
>check the fit and when I went to remove it, I had a hard time getting the
>forward bracket bolts out (the ones with a hex head--this is the
>new-style wheel pant on my RV-8A if that makes a difference, but I think
>they're all the same). They seemed be binding up during removal, and
>once I got them out, there was metal on the threads....almost like it
>stripped out some of the internal threads tapped into the nosegear fork.
>I'm totally mystified because they went in pretty easy (didn't have any
>signs of being cross-threaded) and I didn't torque them down, just barely
>snug enough to check the wheel pant fit. I've had them in and out at least
>a dozen times now during the fitting process for the nosewheel pant.
>
>I'm thinking I'll try running a tap through to clean up the threads and
>maybe get a couple new bolts from the local hardware store (if I can find
>them), but...has anyone else with a training wheel had problems like this?
>I'm not even flying yet so I'm not too encouraged with the
>longevity of this arrangement as it will have to be removed/replaced
>periodically. The threads are looking pretty messed up.
>
>Maybe I should have got a taildragger afterall : )
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: baggage floor and platenuts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown@wmca.net>
That's almost exactly the way I installed mine. I used one-leg platenuts on the
aft ends.
Bob Brown
RV7A Fuselage
Message 18
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| Subject: | mixture return spring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
If you wish to see a photo of a mixture return spring, hit this link and
scroll about half way down the page:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/engine4.html
Just make certain that the spring isn't installed in such a manner as to
interfere with the either the mixture or throttle cables and arms. I
found the very light tension spring at an auto parts store.
Sam Buchanan
-================-
Ross Schlotthauer wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
>
> George,
>
> The spring on the mixture arm sounds like an excellent
> idea. I will be noting that one for future refernce.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ross Schlotthauer
> RV7 Fuse
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: alternat. engines discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> I may be wrong, but if my memory is correct, The Subaru boxer-type (4
> horizontally opposed cylinders--just like guess who?) engine was originally
> designed and developed for a proposed Japanese light aircraft program.
This rumour has been floating around for quite a few years, probably in part
fuelled by Subaru's references to their aviation heritage in their marketing
literature. Subaru--or rather, the company from which Subaru decended in the
complex genealogy of post-WWII Japanese industry--was an aircraft company.
However, they seem to have built jets and turboprops, not any piston-engined
aircraft.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Continous Priming Option?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
On the issue of doing fuel primers at all: be aware that many many RVs have
no primer at all including mine and all the Van's demo ships. I now have
close to 300 hours on mine and have started many times at temps down to
about 30 degrees f. Two or three pumps of the throttle WHILE the engine is
cranking have always done the trick. True, it does take a few more blades
than when warmer, but it's never failed to start and I've never run my
battery down in the process (Concord RG25XC).
My reason for bringing this up is that with any primer system you are adding
potential failure points with the potential to have fuel loose in the engine
compartment. That scares the bejeezus out of me. Perhaps I am biased
though -- I was helping a friend swap engines in his C172 and watched the
copper primer line fall apart as it was just nudged. It had obviously
developed a weak spot from all the motion over the years and was just
waiting to fail. Still, the though of fuel spraying/dripping in the fwf area
is to much for me... simple is good as with most things in aviation. Anyway,
don't feel like you MUST put a primer system in.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 285 hrs
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Yeah, the instructions aren't really clear on this. I drilled mine right
after riveting the center section and it worked out fine.
Outboard seat ribs are covered here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20021026.html
and here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20021027.html
And by the way...save yourself the time and drill the nutplate holes in the
outboard seat ribs at the same time you drill the rest of the holes. I
waited because I was unsure, and ended up drilling them after the side skins
came off for deburring. No harm in drilling them earlier.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Schlotthauer" <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer
<rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
>
> Dear List,
>
> Can anyone out there tell me the appropriate time to
> drill the F715 seat ribs to the bottom center section
> skin and the seat skins. I can't find it in the
> plans.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ross Schlotthauer
> RV-7 Fuse
>
>
Message 22
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"'RV-List Digest Server'"@matronics.com
| Subject: | RE: 360 makes 180 hp |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Actually you are incorrect, I did not write "FULL TIME" I cut and pasted
that entire statement directly from the previous post. Below that I then cut
and pasted the engine data directly from the TC.
FAA requires the Type Certificate to list max continuous power for every
engine certified under that TC.
TBO is established by the Manufacturer using criteria set forth by the FAA
in an Advisory Circular, I don't remember which one. But, max continuous
means just that, until it wears out. I remember the AC requiring testing at
many power levels and very different types of testing to determine TBO, but
the engine should be able to make TBO at any power setting, given no other
misuse, or mismaintenance. They then require commercial use of the engine to
follow manfacturer's recommendations which includes TBO. This has no
exclusion for engines that have been run at full power a lot or a little.
The FAA isn't going to certify something that the testing didn't allow for.
What kills these engines prematurely is corrosion mostly as they sit around
and rust, then get run, and the corroded areas then wear at an accelerated
rate.
I personally have flown an under powered Cherokee 140 at full power its
entire service life doing photo runs and it easily made TBO because we were
running daily flights.
-----Original Message-----
From: LarryRobertHelming [mailto:lhelming@sigecom.net]
Subject: 360 makes 180 hp
You wrote, "Who says??? Does Lycoming say that the O-360 is designed to put
out 180 hp
FULL TIME? Is this a FACT or just a BELIEF of yours?"
I think you inserted the words, "FULL TIME" all by yourself. I think the
engine produces 180 hp when called to do it under proper conditions. It
will do that. I would assume that would be full power capability. Is that
needed at all times during use of the engine?
But, you should suspect that being capable of producing at that level and
doing it to TBO are two different things.
Larry
RV7 - Named 3XG
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Continous Priming Option?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Mark,
Is your engine an O-360 or O-320?, is it carbureted or fuel injected?
My carbureted O-360-A1A has plugged Fuel injection holes in the tops of the
cylinder heads.
Remove a plug and use it for manifold pressure.
Or use all four for your primer system and pick up your M.P. at no. 3
cylinder as usual.
Using the fuel injection port positions allows removal of clutter from below
the cylinders and allows for better mounting, inspection, maintenance and
service location for the primer components.
All the cylinder heads have the bosses, some are drilled and some not. If
you wanted to drill or have one or all four drilled it could be done.
Jim in Kelowna
---- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Continous Priming Option??
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Along this same line- Is there any reason not to run the primer to all
four
> intake ports (four cylinder operation on emergency "prime") and tap into
one of
> the intake tubes for manifold pressure? (using EIS MAP sensor) I'm
thinking a
> small hollow stainless bolt run through a #12 hole in #3 intake runner
maybe an
> inch below the top, with a washer on each side and a metal locknut to
secure,
> sealed with JB weld or red RV. A 1/4" hose clamped around the bolt
threads and
> run to the sensor. Criticism (as always!) appreciated!
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark RV-6A , starting on cowling - do not archive -
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Alternative Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
Hey List;
Until we have conclusively proved alternative engines one way or the
other, I don't feel that we are beating a dead horse. In fact I would say
that this pony has just begun to stretch it's legs. It's this thread that
has brought Tracy Crook onto our list, who undoubtedly has more info to
offer on the subject than most who are just speculating. For those that
aren't interested just use your damn delete key, as I do when you start
rambling about AD's, primers, TD/TG, tip-up/slider, or perhaps most
annoying; questions about items that are very clearly described in the
builder manual. But it doesn't bother me 'cause I just delete. No flame
intended.
As Kevin has stated, most failures are with the auxiliary systems,
which is very dependent on the skills and judgement of the individual
builder. I myself have decided to try something new in this area (electric
waterpump), but am proceeding with utmost caution. But many other listers
are questioning the use of the engine itself, not the aux, so I believe
there is still room to discuss this. I've enjoyed reading this discussion,
although due to time constraints haven't had much time to contribute. I
suppose we could take it to the engines list, if you all promise to take
your electrical questions to the AeroElectric list ;-).
I enjoyed reading Ted's report on the Subaru record set in the
endurance race. This truly is a great feat, that I would be extremely
surprised if a Lyc could withstand this sort of abuse. I recall that some
years back, Mazda competed in the 24 hour LeMans race, where they cleaned
up. (I don't know the details & don't have the time or inclination to
research this right now). After the race rotary engines were banned from
future competition, so that the other manufactures wouldn't have to compete
(I'll bet Lycoming wishes it could do that), (I wonder how much $$$ it would
take to pass that law?) I believe that the rules have changed again, so we
see may Mazda put a rotary back in the LeMans.
Anyway, as I don't feel that this post added much value to this
thread, DO NOT ARCHIVE.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close
they were to success when they gave up"
Thomas A. Edison
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
Alternative Engines
Hey List;
Until we have conclusively proved alternative engines one way or the other, I
don't feel that we are beating a dead horse. In fact I would say that this pony
has just begun to stretch it's legs. It's this thread that has brought Tracy
Crook onto our list, who undoubtedly has more info to offer on the subject than
most who are just speculating. For those that aren't interested just use your
damn delete key, as I do when you start rambling about AD's, primers, TD/TG,
tip-up/slider, or perhaps most annoying; questions about items that are very
clearly described in the builder manual. But it doesn't bother me 'cause I just
delete. No flame intended.
As Kevin has stated, most failures are with the auxiliary systems, which is very
dependent on the skills and judgement of the individual builder. I myself have
decided to try something new in this area (electric waterpump), but am proceeding
with utmost caution. But many other listers are questioning the use of
the engine itself, not the aux, so I believe there is still room to discuss this.
I've enjoyed reading this discussion, although due to time constraints haven't
had much time to contribute. I suppose we could take it to the engines list,
if you all promise to take your electrical questions to the AeroElectric
list ;-).
I enjoyed reading Ted's report on the Subaru record set in the endurance race.
This truly is a great feat, that I would be extremely surprised if a Lyc could
withstand this sort of abuse. I recall that some years back, Mazda competed
in the 24 hour LeMans race, where they cleaned up. (I don't know the details
don't have the time or inclination to research this right now). After the race
rotary engines were banned from future competition, so that the other manufactures
wouldn't have to compete (I'll bet Lycoming wishes it could do that), (I
wonder how much $$$ it would take to pass that law?) I believe that the rules
have changed again, so we see may Mazda put a rotary back in the LeMans.
Anyway, as I don't feel that this post added much value to this thread, DO NOT
ARCHIVE.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
<A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm" TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to
success when they gave up
Thomas A. Edison
Message 25
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--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
Yeah, if anyone is really interested in this subject they would need to get
the AC's on this subject, certification standards. There are beliefs and
there are facts and then there is the real world. The Lycomings are certified
to TBO at full rated power. There is no take off power limit etc on our
little Lycs. It is 2700 RPM continuous sea level standard conditions for full
TBO. I don't have all the AC's and other certification publications. A
certain aircraft company has been investigating alternative fuels, they have
run the fuels on a flying test bed and on test stands. Part of the process
written by them and submitted as part of the program is a requirement to
reverify the TBO, at least so I hear. Most of the aviation community just
accepts that the engines we commonly use are rated to TBO deferring the
research to the engineers. That particular AC I found it in the engineering
library when I was getting the A&P while looking for something else, it is
tedious, that would be an understatement, there are several other
publications that impact the process. One of the main problems with
certifying auto engines is traceability, you build up some test versions, run
them through the ringer and get good results but how do you proove the next
series of blocks or pistons etc are the same as the ones you tested? There
are a lot of little problems that probably have no real bearing on building
an experimental engine or do they? Do Not Archive. JR
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Temp Sender? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Mark,
I don't have any official information or manuals for your application to
research so double check this information. If I read your email correctly
the outlet you refer to is on the top of the oil filter housing.
I removed the plug that resided in this area and inserted a solid brass
adapter that Avery tools supplied. This adapter has a hole bored into it but
not through it thus avoiding the chance of leakage.
Into the hole in the adapter I potted the Rocky Mountain Instruments oil
temp sensor as per their instructions.
Be sure that whatever adapter, plug or fitting is put in this location can
be safety wire tied. This area is open to live oil pressure. Avoid using or
mounting any sensors etc.directly to this or any other location on the
engine itself. remote mounting of such units is the way to go.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
Subject: RV-List: Oil Temp Sender?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> On my O-320 (E3D) there is what appears to be a sender unit on top of
> the spin-on oil filter housing, directly in front of the filter. I can
> find no reference in the Lycoming manuals. I have the drawing of the
> rear accessory case and it shows a temp sender on the rear of the filter
> screen housing (which is not like my engine). What it is? If oil p. or
> t., can this be used for the EIS input?
>
> TIA from The PossumWorks
> Mark -6A, firewall forwardish...
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Doug! You have connected the diode the wrong way! It is now blown to
smithereens! The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it. Current
flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (- negative)
therefore the first time you applied power to your solenoid with the cathode
to ground, you blew it!-----(Literally!)
All relays, solenoids, or other inductive coils powered by DC should have a
diode across them to quench the negative spike ( inductive back-EMF [Electro
Motive Force]) produced by the collapsing field in the coil when the power
to it is shut off. Without the diode, the spike will play "merry hell" with
switch contacts and could affect delicate electronic circuits that do not
have spike protection. (I hope your instruments survived, but desist from
further application of power until you replace the diode).---The high
voltage produced in ignition coils is done exactly by the collapsing field
in the primary winding when the breaker points open, stepped-up by the
secondary winding. There is no diode there!
The ACS A-510-2 ignition switch comes with a diode to put across the starter
solenoid winding but I did not use it because it had the connecting
terminals crimped on to the diode wires (solid conductors) which is bad
practice, as solid copper wire will "cold flow" and the terminals will
become loose, which was the case with that diode. So I used another diode
with stranded wire pig-tails soldered to it and terminals crimped on them.
These diodes are very common and any electronics shop, (eg. Radio Shack)
would have them.
The 1N4001 to 1N4006 series are fine. These are "rectifier" diodes. "Signal"
diodes are not rugged enough therefore not recommended.
BTW: I hope all builders using the electric primer valve have a diode across
it. I got mine from Spruce and no diode was supplied.
Cheers!!----Merry Xmas-----Henry Hore---(retired electronics eng,
once program mgr.of Space Shuttle Canada Arm electronics system)
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Continous Priming Option?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Hi Jim-
Thanks for the reply- she's a carbureted O-320 from a Cherokee with three holes
already plumbed- the lines WILL be replaced before fire-up- Hey! I like the
injector port idea! Know where I can get 4 new injected heads cheep? I've got
a couple of cracked cooling fins on mine! 8-)
Mark- sharpening drill bit for head surgery & tap dance- -do not archive-
Jim Jewell wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> Is your engine an O-360 or O-320?, is it carbureted or fuel injected?
> My carbureted O-360-A1A has plugged Fuel injection holes in the tops of the
> cylinder heads.
> Remove a plug and use it for manifold pressure.
> Or use all four for your primer system and pick up your M.P. at no. 3
> cylinder as usual.
> Using the fuel injection port positions allows removal of clutter from below
> the cylinders and allows for better mounting, inspection, maintenance and
> service location for the primer components.
>
> All the cylinder heads have the bosses, some are drilled and some not. If
> you wanted to drill or have one or all four drilled it could be done.
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
Thanks Dan!
--- Dan Checkoway <dan@rvproject.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
> <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Yeah, the instructions aren't really clear on this.
> I drilled mine right
> after riveting the center section and it worked out
> fine.
>
> Outboard seat ribs are covered here:
> http://www.rvproject.com/20021026.html
> and here:
> http://www.rvproject.com/20021027.html
>
> And by the way...save yourself the time and drill
> the nutplate holes in the
> outboard seat ribs at the same time you drill the
> rest of the holes. I
> waited because I was unsure, and ended up drilling
> them after the side skins
> came off for deburring. No harm in drilling them
> earlier.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross Schlotthauer" <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer
> <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Dear List,
> >
> > Can anyone out there tell me the appropriate time
> to
> > drill the F715 seat ribs to the bottom center
> section
> > skin and the seat skins. I can't find it in the
> > plans.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ross Schlotthauer
> > RV-7 Fuse
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> The Lycomings are certified
> to TBO at full rated power.
Whatever. Since we are NOT certifying engines here, the real question is, "How
long will the engine last under the conditions of use?" The evidence presented
so far indicates that, assuming a well-developed engine-PSRU-prop combination
and well-designed ancillary systems, an auto engine can last many hundreds of
hours in aircraft use, if not longer.
Is there anyone here who still doubts that?
Tedd
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Doug, as a PS to my earlier posting, if you have a diode on the master
solenoid connected the same way, it's blown too! Check any others you may
have in your wiring also.------Cheers!!------Henry
Message 32
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| Subject: | Service Bulletin |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
The just issued service bulletin calling for the inspection of the various
hoses for possible defects seems reasonable enough. All of the hoses in my
FWF kit are easy enough to inspect mostly by holding up to the light and
examining internally, except for the VA-133. This hose is only
approximately 7/16 dia. yet is 27" long. With the fittings attached the
orfice is way too small to check this way. Has anyone come up with a way
to definitively examine the internal structure of this particular hose?
--- Rick Galati
--- rick07x@earthlink.net
Message 33
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--> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams <willig10@yahoo.com>
There is no doubt that the auto engine will last as
long or longer than an auto engine. I will state to
you or anyone else contemplating using an auto
conversion that the weak link is the prsu. Also to get
the auto conversion to make power it has to run well
above 2000 rpm to get into it's power curve. Another
item to think about is the accessories on an
automotive engine, they are not adapted well for
aircraft use and there are many other points to
consider during the decision making process. I would
think that by the time you alter an auto engine for
aircraft use you could have spent that money and
bought a lycoming. However since that is what we are
debating in this thread it is up to the individual in
which engine option he decides to go with. As for me I
will go with Lycoming and put the lycoming up against
any auto conversion out there for ease of maintenance
and mean time between failures.
Glenn Williams
A&P Fort Worth
do not archive
--- Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry
> <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
> > The Lycomings are certified
> > to TBO at full rated power.
>
> Whatever. Since we are NOT certifying engines here,
> the real question is, "How
> long will the engine last under the conditions of
> use?" The evidence presented
> so far indicates that, assuming a well-developed
> engine-PSRU-prop combination
> and well-designed ancillary systems, an auto engine
> can last many hundreds of
> hours in aircraft use, if not longer.
>
> Is there anyone here who still doubts that?
>
> Tedd
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: RE: 360 makes 180 hp |
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams <willig10@yahoo.com>
I can agree with a few points in that a lycoming will
go to tbo at max continous rated power if it is
maintained well and leaned properly. The only thing
besides rust in a lycoming that is suspect are the
jugs. since the engine is air cooled the temperature
variance between the spark plug holes and the intake
and exhaust ports goes from near freezing to let's say
for the sake of conversation above 1500 degrees F.
that sets up a stress point inside the head and will
cause the typical cylinder crack from hole to hole
(intake/exhaust) The lower half of the engine will go
easily up past 6000 hours if regular oil changes are
performed. A top overhaul is roughly $4400.00 if you
do your own maintenance through the span life of the
engine 6000 hours and 3 sets of cylinders is a good
price to pay. I have personally witnessed an 0-320E2D
go this distance and is still in service. After his
lower end overhaul the bottom end crank journals and
bearings were right down the middle and were still
serviceable. I would like to see a car engine perform
that well.
Glenn Williams
A&P Fort Worth
do not archive
--- Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North
> <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Actually you are incorrect, I did not write "FULL
> TIME" I cut and pasted
> that entire statement directly from the previous
> post. Below that I then cut
> and pasted the engine data directly from the TC.
>
> FAA requires the Type Certificate to list max
> continuous power for every
> engine certified under that TC.
>
> TBO is established by the Manufacturer using
> criteria set forth by the FAA
> in an Advisory Circular, I don't remember which one.
> But, max continuous
> means just that, until it wears out. I remember the
> AC requiring testing at
> many power levels and very different types of
> testing to determine TBO, but
> the engine should be able to make TBO at any power
> setting, given no other
> misuse, or mismaintenance. They then require
> commercial use of the engine to
> follow manfacturer's recommendations which includes
> TBO. This has no
> exclusion for engines that have been run at full
> power a lot or a little.
>
> The FAA isn't going to certify something that the
> testing didn't allow for.
>
> What kills these engines prematurely is corrosion
> mostly as they sit around
> and rust, then get run, and the corroded areas then
> wear at an accelerated
> rate.
>
> I personally have flown an under powered Cherokee
> 140 at full power its
> entire service life doing photo runs and it easily
> made TBO because we were
> running daily flights.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LarryRobertHelming
> [mailto:lhelming@sigecom.net]
> To: Wheeler North
> Subject: 360 makes 180 hp
>
>
> You wrote, "Who says??? Does Lycoming say that the
> O-360 is designed to put
> out 180 hp
> FULL TIME? Is this a FACT or just a BELIEF of
> yours?"
>
> I think you inserted the words, "FULL TIME" all by
> yourself. I think the
> engine produces 180 hp when called to do it under
> proper conditions. It
> will do that. I would assume that would be full
> power capability. Is that
> needed at all times during use of the engine?
>
> But, you should suspect that being capable of
> producing at that level and
> doing it to TBO are two different things.
>
> Larry
>
> RV7 - Named 3XG
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: TBO & alternative engines. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
the real question is, "How
long will the engine last under the conditions of use?" The evidence
presented
so far indicates that, assuming a well-developed engine-PSRU-prop
combination
and well-designed ancillary systems, an auto engine can last many hundreds
of
hours in aircraft use, if not longer.
Is there anyone here who still doubts that?
Tedd
I'm a believer. I was very pleased to find that the apex seals were only
worn about 30% of allowable after 856 hours. This is the fastest wearing
part in a rotary engine, everything else had no measurable wear. First 200
hours were flown at very conservative power settings (40 - 50% cruise) but
the last 400 were at typical aircraft numbers (60 - 75%)
But the biggest factor regarding alternative engines has not been mentioned
yet.
At this point in time, the over-riding factor in deciding whether or not to
use something other than a Lycoming should be whether the idea appeals to
you. This situation is slowly changing but in most cases, there are
*many* more details for the builder to work out that don't have to be
considered with a Lyc. This factor should not be underestimated and it is
the reason that the majority of auto powered projects never get off the
ground. If you are not excited from the start about having something
different under the cowl, it would be silly to even consider anything other
than a Lycoming.
Cost of an auto conversion can be a little less than a good used Lyc, but
not enough to be the deciding factor. Having said that, the cost and
availability of good used Lycs seems to be going up all the time though.
Tracy Crook
Mazda 13B powered RV-4 (1300 hrs)
Mazda 20B powered RV-8 (carefully cutting the canopy today)
Message 36
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| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual crank-triggered
Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I thought I'd pass along
the info FYI...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing....
IAD03IA017
Incident occurred Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at LEESBURG, VA
Aircraft:CRAIG N. MOEN RV-8, registration: N184CM
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On October 22, 2002, about 1600 eastern standard time, a homebuilt RV-8, N184CM,
experienced a failure of the right ignition system during descent into Leesburg
Executive Airport (JYO), Leesburg, Virginia. The airplane landed uneventfully,
and the certificated private pilot/builder/owner was not injured. No flight
plan was filed for the flight that originated at Elizabethtown Airport, (4W1),
Elizabethtown, North Carolina, about 1400. Visual meteorological conditions
prevailed for the personal flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.
According to the pilot, he was on a return flight from Florida, when he was forced
to land at Elizabethtown due to weather. While in the traffic pattern the
engine backfired a few times. After landing, and while taxiing to the ramp, he
determined that the right ignition source was working intermittently.
The pilot was unable to replace the right ignition source in Elizabethtown, and
returned to Leesburg the following day. As the airplane made a normal descent
into Leesburg, the pilot discovered the right ignition source was "completely
dead."
The pilot had installed a Dual Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system with Hall Effect
Sensor Modules, which replaced both magnetos.
The pilot removed the back plate of the right Hall Effect sensor module and found
the timing rotor had fractured, and the internal face of the back plate exhibited
rotational scoring.
The pilot reported that the right Hall Effect sensor module had accrued a total
of 34 hours.
According to the manufacturer, 400 timing rotors were currently in use and there
been no reported failures.
The fractured timing rotor and back plate were sent to Safety Board's Materials
Laboratory, Washington, D.C, for further examination.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Okay, okay, I do feel like an idiot : ) I painted my nosewheel fork with primer/rustoleum
just after getting the finish kit and had long since forgotton to
even think about what material it was made out of...I usually don't lubricate
bolts going into other stuff like lock nuts, plate nuts, castle nuts, etc...and
in fact if you're torqueing something you're supposed to use DRY threads. This
is obviously different, and if I had thought about it a bit more, it would
have made perfect sense (yes, I DO use anti-seize when installing steel spark
plugs into aluminum cylinder heads).
So...for anyone else out there with a nosedragger, just in case you did't already
realize this,
USE ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT ON THE NOSEWHEEL FORWARD BRACKET ATTACHMENT BOLTS and
save yourself some grief.
Off to the hardware store for a helicoil set...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D might fly someday if I can quit screwing stuff up...
From: "Tom Green" <tomg@vansaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping
Probably the only thing we can imagine is that you have not used
some type of lubricant on the threads... running dry threads in
aluminum (or for that matter anything) is probably not a good
idea... aluminum has a tendency to gall and being dry worsens
this... Tom @ Van's
Time: 06:34:09 PM PST US
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Any time you thread a hard metal into a soft metal, (or vice-versa) you
should use anti-seize compound on the threads. That's why it's called
anti-SIEZE compound. I use Permatex's stuff and if you have an engine in
your velocipede with an aluminum cylinder head, they tell you to use the
same stuff on the spark-plugs! "Elementary my dear Watson"!
Cheers!!---------Henry Hore
From: czechsix@juno.com
Guys,
Had a weird thing happen today...I remounted my nosewheel fairing
to
check the fit and when I went to remove it, I had a hard time getting
the forward bracket bolts out (the ones with a hex head--this is the
new-style wheel pant on my RV-8A if that makes a difference, but I
think
they're all the same). They seemed be binding up during removal,
and
once I got them out, there was metal on the threads....almost like it
stripped out some of the internal threads tapped into the nosegear
fork.
I'm totally mystified because they went in pretty easy (didn't have
any
signs of being cross-threaded) and I didn't torque them down, just
barely snug enough to check the wheel pant fit. I've had them in
and out at least a dozen times now during the fitting process for
the nosewheel pant.
I'm thinking I'll try running a tap through to clean up the threads and
maybe get a couple new bolts from the local hardware store (if I
can find them), but...has anyone else with a training wheel had
problems like this? I'm not even flying yet so I'm not too
encouraged with the
longevity of this arrangement as it will have to be removed/replaced
periodically. The threads are looking pretty messed up.
Maybe I should have got a taildragger afterall : )
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: alternat. engines discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: lm4@juno.com
I keep this around for when this topic comes up. It comes up once in a
while. I cannot prove it though. It sort of goes this way.
Way back when there was a company that made cars and designed aircraft
engines. The company was called Nakajima. The company made engines that
fit in small cars and made them available to aircraft homebuilders.
These homebuilders would take trips to the out islands and Nakajima would
make advertising hay out of the exploits of these homebuilders. THEN,
someone got an awful idea and Nakajima was in the business of not only
designing engines for Mitsubishi but also manufacturing engines for the
zero. At war's end the Nakajima plant was closed down by allied forces.
Dead. Never to be heard from again.
But. The people who had a job, trade, the business experience, etc. began
opening small businesses of their own to get the trade that was
originally Nakajimas,s.
Yet, Sometime later a large conglomerate holding corp. called Fuji heavy
industries was looking at these small companies, numbering 100 or more
and saw a potential for a better, more profitable business order. So
Fuji h.i. bought up these small companies and named it after the group of
small but bright stars called the constallation Pleities. Thats the
english version. In Japanees the word is pronounced Subaru. HTH
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester N.Y.
do not archive
On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:08:32 -0400 "Clare Snyder" <clare@snyder.on.ca>
writes:
> This is a widely spread MYTH. The engine was never destined for a
> plane,
> although Fuji had built planes in the past. I believe their aircraft
> engines
> were inline?
> The VW , Corvair, Duetch Bonnet?, Citroen, Toyota UP7,and other
> opposed (and
> even many aircooled) automotive opposed engines were not designed
> with
> aircraft in mind either.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
> > Peter, what gave you the idea that the Soob was originally
> > designed as an aircraft engine?
> > Dave Stroud
> > From: "Peter Stenabaugh" <caddman@telusplanet.net>
> > To: <airsoob@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [AirSoob] Geo vs EA group
> > > Hey again:
> > > If you want some info on redrives, one of the best and verys
strong
> > > redrives, and at reasonable cost, comes from Rotary Air Force,
located
> i > > Saskatoon, SK. Their web site is http://www.raf2000.com/. Drop
> an email,and they will send you some information. They use Subaru
engines on their
> gyro copters, and manufacture their own redrive for it.
Peter Stenabaugh
From: "crackfiller52354" <john4rest@aol.com>
> > > To: <airsoob@yahoogroups.com>
Could anyone with experience with both engines give me their
> opin as to reliability, cost, performance, ease of adding redrive,
> an weight. Building my first PPC and don't know what way to go.
> Want
> > > > 80+hp. Any other advice will be appreciated.
On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 08:41:25 -0800 (PST) Tedd McHenry
<tedd@vansairforce.org> writes:
I may be wrong, but if my memory is correct, The Subaru
> boxer-type (4
> > horizontally opposed cylinders--just like guess who?) engine was
> originally designed and developed for a proposed Japanese light
aircraft
> program. This rumour has been floating around for quite a few years,
probably
> in part fuelled by Subaru's references to their aviation heritage in
their
> marketing literature. Subaru--or rather, the company from which Subaru
> decended in the complex genealogy of post-WWII Japanese industry--was
an aircraft
> company. However, they seem to have built jets and turboprops, not any
> piston-engined aircraft.
Tedd McHenry
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
> Doug! You have connected the diode the wrong way! It is now blown to
> smithereens! The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it.
Current
> flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (- negative)
> therefore the first time you applied power to your solenoid with the
cathode
> to ground, you blew it!-----(Literally!)
>
> All relays, solenoids, or other inductive coils powered by DC should have
a
> diode across them to quench the negative spike ( inductive back-EMF
[Electro
> Motive Force]) produced by the collapsing field in the coil when the power
> to it is shut off. Without the diode, the spike will play "merry hell"
with
> switch contacts and could affect delicate electronic circuits that do not
> have spike protection. (I hope your instruments survived, but desist from
> further application of power until you replace the diode).---The high
> voltage produced in ignition coils is done exactly by the collapsing field
> in the primary winding when the breaker points open, stepped-up by the
> secondary winding. There is no diode there!
>
> The ACS A-510-2 ignition switch comes with a diode to put across the
starter
> solenoid winding but I did not use it because it had the connecting
> terminals crimped on to the diode wires (solid conductors) which is bad
> practice, as solid copper wire will "cold flow" and the terminals will
> become loose, which was the case with that diode. So I used another diode
> with stranded wire pig-tails soldered to it and terminals crimped on them.
>
> These diodes are very common and any electronics shop, (eg. Radio Shack)
> would have them.
> The 1N4001 to 1N4006 series are fine. These are "rectifier" diodes.
"Signal"
> diodes are not rugged enough therefore not recommended.
>
> BTW: I hope all builders using the electric primer valve have a diode
across
> it. I got mine from Spruce and no diode was supplied.
> Cheers!!----Merry Xmas-----Henry Hore---(retired electronics eng,
> once program mgr.of Space Shuttle Canada Arm electronics system)
Well guys, I'm not so sure I wired it incorrectly in light of this note from
Gus at Van's (I sent him a digital photo of the installation... also I did
find the instructions and they state to place the red banded end of the
diode (BTW, this is a heat shrinked connection with a red band at one end)
at the "S" terminal and the other goes to ground. I checked continuity
along the diode connection and I do have continuity. But Gus may have a
point regarding the voltage drop. Remember, I have not run this engine yet
and my battery voltage is only 11.5 right now (I run it down and charge it
up as I work on the airplane). I'd say the logical solution is to change
the wiring to put all the EI instruments on the avionics bus which is
controlled by a separate switch which is off for start.
Doug
Gus' comments:
The wiring sounds correct, the diode red band should be toward the
S terminal. Possibly the problem is not a voltage surge from the
starter, but the result of a voltage drop caused by running the
starter. The diodes are not intended to protect the instruments. I
would turn them off for engine start, you can turn them on once it is
running to see oil press etc. The diodes are there to protect the
starter and master switches.
Gus
Message 40
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--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
In a message dated 12/13/2002 2:23:32 PM Central Standard Time,
tedd@vansairforce.org writes:
> Is there anyone here who still doubts that?
>
Actually I do and I have not seen any evidence presented, being stubborn
perhaps, that is any thing more than conjecture and extrapolation but what is
still needed is to have some of these various conversions accumulate some
time in the air and that will take time unfortunately. There are, as stated
before, several conversions that look promising but they are nonetheless
unproven till we have at least several dozen go through a full life cycle and
how is that established for one of these. When I tear a Lyc down, the few
times I have, I had several manuals that made it fairly simple to establish
limits but what limits have been established for auto conversions. When a car
stops running you coast to the side of the road and call for help on the cell
phone, when an airplane engine stops running the results are potentially
fatal. I would not put a Lycoming in a car though Tucker did put a Franklin
in his. I think it would be an awful auto engine and conversely I am not sure
that auto conversions will be anything but awful in an airplane but there
could always be exceptions I suppose. I guess where we are in this state of
affairs is that a bunch of folks need to put their words into action and put
those conversions in the air and then we will see, publish firewall forward
(prop excluded) weights, horsepower, TBO and maintenance procedures and
inspection criteria. For better or worse, for an RV at this time, the
benchmark is still the Lycoming type engine and everything else is either
heavier, slower, more costly or unproven. Do Not Archive. JR
Message 41
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| Subject: | Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
I just hope that alternate engine installations last as long as this thread
has been going !
John at Salida, CO
Message 42
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| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@InterMapSystems.com>
What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
Can someone shed light here?
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
czechsix@juno.com
Subject: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual
crank-triggered Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I
thought I'd pass along the info FYI...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing....
IAD03IA017
Incident occurred Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at LEESBURG, VA
Aircraft:CRAIG N. MOEN RV-8, registration: N184CM
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
completed.
On October 22, 2002, about 1600 eastern standard time, a homebuilt RV-8,
N184CM, experienced a failure of the right ignition system during descent
into Leesburg Executive Airport (JYO), Leesburg, Virginia. The airplane
landed uneventfully, and the certificated private pilot/builder/owner was
not injured. No flight plan was filed for the flight that originated at
Elizabethtown Airport, (4W1), Elizabethtown, North Carolina, about 1400.
Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the personal flight conducted
under 14 CFR Part 91.
According to the pilot, he was on a return flight from Florida, when he was
forced to land at Elizabethtown due to weather. While in the traffic pattern
the engine backfired a few times. After landing, and while taxiing to the
ramp, he determined that the right ignition source was working
intermittently.
The pilot was unable to replace the right ignition source in Elizabethtown,
and returned to Leesburg the following day. As the airplane made a normal
descent into Leesburg, the pilot discovered the right ignition source was
"completely dead."
The pilot had installed a Dual Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system with
Hall Effect Sensor Modules, which replaced both magnetos.
The pilot removed the back plate of the right Hall Effect sensor module and
found the timing rotor had fractured, and the internal face of the back
plate exhibited rotational scoring.
The pilot reported that the right Hall Effect sensor module had accrued a
total of 34 hours.
According to the manufacturer, 400 timing rotors were currently in use and
there been no reported failures.
The fractured timing rotor and back plate were sent to Safety Board's
Materials Laboratory, Washington, D.C, for further examination.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Matt has an engines list that has been awfully dead lately. Maybe the
subscribers there would enjoy this discussion.
Terry
DO NOT ARCHIVE
I just hope that alternate engine installations last as long as this thread
has been going !
John at Salida, CO
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
>Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual
>crank-triggered Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I
>thought I'd pass along the info FYI...
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D finishing....
>
>
>IAD03IA017
>Incident occurred Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at LEESBURG, VA
>Aircraft:CRAIG N. MOEN RV-8, registration: N184CM
>Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
>This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
>Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
>completed.
>
>On October 22, 2002, about 1600 eastern standard time, a homebuilt RV-8,
>N184CM, experienced a failure of the right ignition system during descent
>into Leesburg Executive Airport (JYO), Leesburg, Virginia. The airplane
>landed uneventfully, and the certificated private pilot/builder/owner was
>not injured. No flight plan was filed for the flight that originated at
>Elizabethtown Airport, (4W1), Elizabethtown, North Carolina, about 1400.
>Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the personal flight
>conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.
>
>According to the pilot, he was on a return flight from Florida, when he was
>forced to land at Elizabethtown due to weather. While in the traffic
>pattern the engine backfired a few times. After landing, and while taxiing
>to the ramp, he determined that the right ignition source was working
>intermittently.
>
>The pilot was unable to replace the right ignition source in Elizabethtown,
>and returned to Leesburg the following day. As the airplane made a normal
>descent into Leesburg, the pilot discovered the right ignition source was
>"completely dead."
>
>The pilot had installed a Dual Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system with
>Hall Effect Sensor Modules, which replaced both magnetos.
>
>The pilot removed the back plate of the right Hall Effect sensor module and
>found the timing rotor had fractured, and the internal face of the back
>plate exhibited rotational scoring.
>
>The pilot reported that the right Hall Effect sensor module had accrued a
>total of 34 hours.
>
>According to the manufacturer, 400 timing rotors were currently in use and
>there been no reported failures.
>
>The fractured timing rotor and back plate were sent to Safety Board's
>Materials Laboratory, Washington, D.C, for further examination.
Yikes! I would be most interested in the outcome of the Material Lab's
findings. I have one of these modules controlling my Lightspeed...but still
have the mag on the left side. With this information, I'm glad I chose to
keep the old sparky as a backup. I still love the LSE system, but with my
recent ignition failure in my pickup truck, I no longer feel this technology
to be as failure proof as I used to. Oh well, nothing is perfect and, as
they say, "stuff" happens. Just have to be prepared to deal with it if/when
you draw the short straw.
I'm very glad the pilot is OK.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Jim,
If you take the "Hall Effect Module" off of your engine (this can be done in
place) and remove the cover you will find "the timing rotor" residing on the
other end of the shaft that the drive gear was installed onto and held in
place with the locknut.
It serves essentially the same function as the rotor in a distributor. When
you turn the housing you are changing the relationship timing wise between
the hall effect magnet and the pick up. The engine driven timing rotor being
the constant and the housing being the variable. With the re-install the
unit with the bolts a bit loose. Turn the housing until the timing LED is
lit at the manufactures suggested position and tighten the clamping bolts on
the housing. The timing is set.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@intermapsystems.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@InterMapSystems.com>
>
> What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
>
> I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
> side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
> installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
>
> I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
>
> Can someone shed light here?
>
> jim
> Tampa
Message 46
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| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro@erols.com>
The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this Lightspeed
ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees BTC
(instead of the required 25). The LEDs get the timing close enough to start
the engine - then you must set the timing using a timing light.
The easiest way to do this is to make a 25 degree BTC mark on the back of
the flywheel that lines up with whatever engine reference mark you want (I
used the center of my top forward engine baffle). This way you are behind
the prop pointing the timing light forward to check the timing. This takes
just a minute or two to set the hall effect modules.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A flying (dual Lightspeed ignitions)
Vienna, VA.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Jim,
If you take the "Hall Effect Module" off of your engine (this can be done in
place) and remove the cover you will find "the timing rotor" residing on the
other end of the shaft that the drive gear was installed onto and held in
place with the locknut.
It serves essentially the same function as the rotor in a distributor. When
you turn the housing you are changing the relationship timing wise between
the hall effect magnet and the pick up. The engine driven timing rotor being
the constant and the housing being the variable. With the re-install the
unit with the bolts a bit loose. Turn the housing until the timing LED is
lit at the manufactures suggested position and tighten the clamping bolts on
the housing. The timing is set.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@intermapsystems.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@InterMapSystems.com>
>
> What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
>
> I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
> side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
> installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
>
> I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
>
> Can someone shed light here?
>
> jim
> Tampa
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Gus's comments have merit and I'd certainly charge the battery and try
again. I don't have my E.I. gauges on my avionics master and they do just
fine during start. BTW, monitor your voltage during start, if should drop to
about 9.7 if your battery is healthy.
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Protection diodes on starter solenoid
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
> >
> > Doug! You have connected the diode the wrong way! It is now blown to
> > smithereens! The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it.
> Current
> > flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (-
negative)
> > therefore the first time you applied power to your solenoid with the
> cathode
> > to ground, you blew it!-----(Literally!)
> >
> > All relays, solenoids, or other inductive coils powered by DC should
have
> a
> > diode across them to quench the negative spike ( inductive back-EMF
> [Electro
> > Motive Force]) produced by the collapsing field in the coil when the
power
> > to it is shut off. Without the diode, the spike will play "merry hell"
> with
> > switch contacts and could affect delicate electronic circuits that do
not
> > have spike protection. (I hope your instruments survived, but desist
from
> > further application of power until you replace the diode).---The high
> > voltage produced in ignition coils is done exactly by the collapsing
field
> > in the primary winding when the breaker points open, stepped-up by the
> > secondary winding. There is no diode there!
> >
> > The ACS A-510-2 ignition switch comes with a diode to put across the
> starter
> > solenoid winding but I did not use it because it had the connecting
> > terminals crimped on to the diode wires (solid conductors) which is bad
> > practice, as solid copper wire will "cold flow" and the terminals will
> > become loose, which was the case with that diode. So I used another
diode
> > with stranded wire pig-tails soldered to it and terminals crimped on
them.
> >
> > These diodes are very common and any electronics shop, (eg. Radio Shack)
> > would have them.
> > The 1N4001 to 1N4006 series are fine. These are "rectifier" diodes.
> "Signal"
> > diodes are not rugged enough therefore not recommended.
> >
> > BTW: I hope all builders using the electric primer valve have a diode
> across
> > it. I got mine from Spruce and no diode was supplied.
> > Cheers!!----Merry Xmas-----Henry Hore---(retired electronics
eng,
> > once program mgr.of Space Shuttle Canada Arm electronics system)
>
> Well guys, I'm not so sure I wired it incorrectly in light of this note
from
> Gus at Van's (I sent him a digital photo of the installation... also I did
> find the instructions and they state to place the red banded end of the
> diode (BTW, this is a heat shrinked connection with a red band at one end)
> at the "S" terminal and the other goes to ground. I checked continuity
> along the diode connection and I do have continuity. But Gus may have a
> point regarding the voltage drop. Remember, I have not run this engine
yet
> and my battery voltage is only 11.5 right now (I run it down and charge it
> up as I work on the airplane). I'd say the logical solution is to change
> the wiring to put all the EI instruments on the avionics bus which is
> controlled by a separate switch which is off for start.
>
> Doug
>
> Gus' comments:
>
>
> The wiring sounds correct, the diode red band should be toward the
> S terminal. Possibly the problem is not a voltage surge from the
> starter, but the result of a voltage drop caused by running the
> starter. The diodes are not intended to protect the instruments. I
> would turn them off for engine start, you can turn them on once it is
> running to see oil press etc. The diodes are there to protect the
> starter and master switches.
>
> Gus
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Carl,
Good point.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro@erols.com>
Subject: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro@erols.com>
>
> The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this Lightspeed
> ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
> light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees BTC
> (instead of the required 25). The LEDs get the timing close enough to
start
> the engine - then you must set the timing using a timing light.
>
> The easiest way to do this is to make a 25 degree BTC mark on the back of
> the flywheel that lines up with whatever engine reference mark you want (I
> used the center of my top forward engine baffle). This way you are behind
> the prop pointing the timing light forward to check the timing. This
takes
> just a minute or two to set the hall effect modules.
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A flying (dual Lightspeed ignitions)
> Vienna, VA.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> If you take the "Hall Effect Module" off of your engine (this can be done
in
> place) and remove the cover you will find "the timing rotor" residing on
the
> other end of the shaft that the drive gear was installed onto and held in
> place with the locknut.
>
> It serves essentially the same function as the rotor in a distributor.
When
> you turn the housing you are changing the relationship timing wise between
> the hall effect magnet and the pick up. The engine driven timing rotor
being
> the constant and the housing being the variable. With the re-install the
> unit with the bolts a bit loose. Turn the housing until the timing LED is
> lit at the manufactures suggested position and tighten the clamping bolts
on
> the housing. The timing is set.
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@intermapsystems.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Norman"
<jnorman@InterMapSystems.com>
> >
> > What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
> >
> > I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the
right
> > side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which
is
> > installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
> >
> > I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
> >
> > Can someone shed light here?
> >
> > jim
> > Tampa
>
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: RE: 360 makes 180 hp |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 10:26 AM 12/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
>Actually you are incorrect
and
>I personally have flown an under powered Cherokee 140 at full power its
>entire service life doing photo runs and it easily made TBO because we were
>running daily flights.
What did you photograph, Wheeler, the lodge in Death Valley??
How else could you fly at full power?? Super cold weather while
photographing seals on ice floes in the Arctic Ocean??
I'm guessing you meant full throttle. I don't think that it is at all
uncommon for an O-320 to make TBO when operated as generally recommended
and cared for properly. No issue with this.
You are not alone in sometimes forgetting that full throttle is not full
power except during a very few minutes in the average engine's life.
In your experience, do Lycomings tend to lose the ability to make full
power as they near TBO?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
> The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this Lightspeed
> ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
> light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees
BTC>
At what rpm are you using the timing light? I am using dual Lightspeed Eng
ignitions systems and have set them per the maker's instructions, using the
LED indications.
John
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro@erols.com>
> >
> > The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this
Lightspeed
> > ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
> > light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees
BTC
> > (instead of the required 25). The LEDs get the timing close enough to
>
I have asked Klaus for his view on this information, and will post his reply
when received.
John at Salida, CO
Message 52
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| Subject: | Alt Engine-- Loyd/Subaru? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet@hotmail.com>
Am no engine historian, but let me toss this into the mix. About 40 years
ago a military acquaintance returned from Germany with a liquid cooled four
cylinder opposed engined Loyd automobile. That company disapeared, and then
a strikingly similarly engine appeared in the imported Subaru. At the time,
about 25 years ago, I suspected maybe the design and tooling had been
transfered from Germany to Japan. Any takers?
Jack Blomgren, Twin City RV Wing
-8 finish kit on order
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: RE: 360 makes 180 hp |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Christie" <billc3@cox.net>
Glenn,
I had a Porsche 911S (1971) for 17 years. I bought it new and did all my own
maintenance after the 2 year warranty period. When I sold it, I had over
175000 miles on it. At 60 mph average, that is 2916 hours. While I played
with the engine several times, I never replaced the mains or had to turn the
crank journals. Six months before I sold it, I miked out the journals and
they were in the center of Porsche's spec limit and only a trace of bronze
was showing on the bearings. I maintained it carefully, but never babied it.
The first set of Continental tires only lasted 8000 miles. I would still
have it today except the oldest daughter turned 16 and State Farm raised my
insurance significantly (X5). Very reliable and would run all day at
3000-3500 RPM (my normal cruise in 5th gear. Lycomings and truck diesels are
not necessarily the only reliable engines.
Bill Christie, Phoenix, RV8A
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "glenn williams" <willig10@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: 360 makes 180 hp
> --> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams <willig10@yahoo.com>
>
> I can agree with a few points in that a lycoming will
> go to tbo at max continous rated power if it is
> maintained well and leaned properly. The only thing
> besides rust in a lycoming that is suspect are the
> jugs. since the engine is air cooled the temperature
> variance between the spark plug holes and the intake
> and exhaust ports goes from near freezing to let's say
> for the sake of conversation above 1500 degrees F.
> that sets up a stress point inside the head and will
> cause the typical cylinder crack from hole to hole
> (intake/exhaust) The lower half of the engine will go
> easily up past 6000 hours if regular oil changes are
> performed. A top overhaul is roughly $4400.00 if you
> do your own maintenance through the span life of the
> engine 6000 hours and 3 sets of cylinders is a good
> price to pay. I have personally witnessed an 0-320E2D
> go this distance and is still in service. After his
> lower end overhaul the bottom end crank journals and
> bearings were right down the middle and were still
> serviceable. I would like to see a car engine perform
> that well.
>
> Glenn Williams
> A&P Fort Worth
> do not archive
>
> --- Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us> wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North
> > <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
> >
> > Actually you are incorrect, I did not write "FULL
> > TIME" I cut and pasted
> > that entire statement directly from the previous
> > post. Below that I then cut
> > and pasted the engine data directly from the TC.
> >
> > FAA requires the Type Certificate to list max
> > continuous power for every
> > engine certified under that TC.
> >
> > TBO is established by the Manufacturer using
> > criteria set forth by the FAA
> > in an Advisory Circular, I don't remember which one.
> > But, max continuous
> > means just that, until it wears out. I remember the
> > AC requiring testing at
> > many power levels and very different types of
> > testing to determine TBO, but
> > the engine should be able to make TBO at any power
> > setting, given no other
> > misuse, or mismaintenance. They then require
> > commercial use of the engine to
> > follow manfacturer's recommendations which includes
> > TBO. This has no
> > exclusion for engines that have been run at full
> > power a lot or a little.
> >
> > The FAA isn't going to certify something that the
> > testing didn't allow for.
> >
> > What kills these engines prematurely is corrosion
> > mostly as they sit around
> > and rust, then get run, and the corroded areas then
> > wear at an accelerated
> > rate.
> >
> > I personally have flown an under powered Cherokee
> > 140 at full power its
> > entire service life doing photo runs and it easily
> > made TBO because we were
> > running daily flights.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LarryRobertHelming
> > [mailto:lhelming@sigecom.net]
> > To: Wheeler North
> > Subject: 360 makes 180 hp
> >
> >
> > You wrote, "Who says??? Does Lycoming say that the
> > O-360 is designed to put
> > out 180 hp
> > FULL TIME? Is this a FACT or just a BELIEF of
> > yours?"
> >
> > I think you inserted the words, "FULL TIME" all by
> > yourself. I think the
> > engine produces 180 hp when called to do it under
> > proper conditions. It
> > will do that. I would assume that would be full
> > power capability. Is that
> > needed at all times during use of the engine?
> >
> > But, you should suspect that being capable of
> > producing at that level and
> > doing it to TBO are two different things.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > RV7 - Named 3XG
> >
> >
> >
> > Click on the
> > this
> > generous
> > _->
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
That "equally ancient V/6" that you refer to has an old Grandfather; The
General Motors (Possibly Chevrolet back then) V/8 design, Is in some
respects quite a lot older than many would believe. The first GM push rod
overhead valve V/8 was a running prototype in 1917. The pushrod rockers
required frequent manual oiling as they where external to the crankcase and
oiling system.
The first GM production V/8 I think was offered publicly in 1955. This was
the fore runner of most all GM engines produced since then. The 283, 327,
305, 350, 400 CID. and others worked hard and have lived long and varied
lives around the world.
However the term "equally ancient" is at the very least stretching your
point. The 4.3 Vortec V/6 that much of this alternative engine discussion
seems to have centered on certainly has an old historic lineage. The Design
changes that have transpired down through the years have breathed exiting
new life into that old iron horse.
A trip to a library or a web search will provide the seeker with a very long
list of design changes. From the first offering of the V/6 (I'm uncertain as
to the precise year) in the seventies or eighties to the present. The list
is long. Many of the changes driven by anti pollution laws, some arising
from the auto racing industry, a good many due to warranty issues.
Some if not most where subtle changes. Others such as intake manifold runner
design, exhaust system, combustion chamber modifications, hall effect
ignition and individual port fuel injection have produced a powerful engine
with a good record of reliability and endurance. The marine version seems to
be a popular hard worker that stands up well to conditions simular to those
in aircraft.
Due to the Aircraft industry certification process the Lycoming design
started out of the gate much more developed than it's automotive
counterparts of that era (mid thirties). As the years have passed it to has
gone through changes. The changes have in the main been borne out of better
materials, machining and casting proceedures, and refinments driven by in
the field failure mode discoverys, the dreaded ADs {|:-(!
The fact that the thirties technology stood the test of time so well makes
this topic very interesting.
The fact that the automotive technology has come as far as it has is also
good interesting topic material.
The arguable parallels of the two that this disscusion has touched on are
interesting, They come at the time when gasoline and diesel burning internal
combustion piston engines might be seeing the end of their development
stage. Some say this technology is nearing the end of its dominance as the
chosen source of power what we refer to as the modern civilised world.
Yes we are having a discussion here, All in All this discussion has been
edifying, sometimes humorous, wide ranging and long, This after all is what
the list is about.
This thread will run it's course and come up again. In the meantime some
more Experimental builders will create and put hours on their alternatives
whatever they might choose. This will again result in more information to
support yet another go around with this worthwhile thread.
Please feel free to correct and or update this email as needed
I need to learn.
Jim In Kelowna .
----- Original Message -----
From: <JRWillJR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions
> --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/12/2002 2:25:11 PM Central Standard Time,
> BELTEDAIR@aol.com writes:
>
>
> > Well, JR you just explained why Cont. and Lyc. can't make any progress
> > either.
>
> Fair enough but I guess my feeling is that offering an equally ancient V6
> pushrod design from Chevy is not progress either though it may well be
less
> expensive and equally durable. Did not mean to stir you guys up. We just
> having a discussion aren't we? I have learned alot from this thread and
> realize how much I don't know. Do Not Archive. JR
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: RE: 360 makes 180 hp |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Glenn,
This might interest you;
Yesterday I saw a January issue of one of the aircraft magazines has an
article on the recently discussed Moony / Porche combination. It is pictured
and listed on the cover.
I drove build and modified a 400 CID GTO engine. I then put it in a 70
Firebird after 85,000 miles I replaced the timing chain, Rings and bearings
and at that time. I also did some more blueprinting fine tuning at that
time. I then proceeded to drive that car well over an additional 300,000
Miles. At about the 200,000 mile point I installed new lifters. The engine
outlasted the car, RUST!. I sold the engine to an acquaintance who rebuilt
the engine the crank was ground .010 the block was bored .020 and has been
driven it for at least eight years now.
I suppose this is where, like you, my faith in the utility and durability of
automobile power plants comes from.
A lot of Taxi drivers and other commercial operators get their engines to
run just about forever so I don't see the above as overly remarkable.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Christie" <billc3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: 360 makes 180 hp
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Christie" <billc3@cox.net>
>
> Glenn,
> I had a Porsche 911S (1971) for 17 years. I bought it new and did all my
own
> maintenance after the 2 year warranty period. When I sold it, I had over
> 175000 miles on it. At 60 mph average, that is 2916 hours. While I played
> with the engine several times, I never replaced the mains or had to turn
the
> crank journals. Six months before I sold it, I miked out the journals and
> they were in the center of Porsche's spec limit and only a trace of bronze
> was showing on the bearings. I maintained it carefully, but never babied
it.
> The first set of Continental tires only lasted 8000 miles. I would still
> have it today except the oldest daughter turned 16 and State Farm raised
my
> insurance significantly (X5). Very reliable and would run all day at
> 3000-3500 RPM (my normal cruise in 5th gear. Lycomings and truck diesels
are
> not necessarily the only reliable engines.
>
> Bill Christie, Phoenix, RV8A
> Do Not Archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "glenn williams" <willig10@yahoo.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: 360 makes 180 hp
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams <willig10@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I can agree with a few points in that a lycoming will
> > go to tbo at max continous rated power if it is
> > maintained well and leaned properly. The only thing
> > besides rust in a lycoming that is suspect are the
> > jugs. since the engine is air cooled the temperature
> > variance between the spark plug holes and the intake
> > and exhaust ports goes from near freezing to let's say
> > for the sake of conversation above 1500 degrees F.
> > that sets up a stress point inside the head and will
> > cause the typical cylinder crack from hole to hole
> > (intake/exhaust) The lower half of the engine will go
> > easily up past 6000 hours if regular oil changes are
> > performed. A top overhaul is roughly $4400.00 if you
> > do your own maintenance through the span life of the
> > engine 6000 hours and 3 sets of cylinders is a good
> > price to pay. I have personally witnessed an 0-320E2D
> > go this distance and is still in service. After his
> > lower end overhaul the bottom end crank journals and
> > bearings were right down the middle and were still
> > serviceable. I would like to see a car engine perform
> > that well.
> >
> > Glenn Williams
> > A&P Fort Worth
> > do not archive
> >
> > --- Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us> wrote:
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North
> > > <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
> > >
> > > Actually you are incorrect, I did not write "FULL
> > > TIME" I cut and pasted
> > > that entire statement directly from the previous
> > > post. Below that I then cut
> > > and pasted the engine data directly from the TC.
> > >
> > > FAA requires the Type Certificate to list max
> > > continuous power for every
> > > engine certified under that TC.
> > >
> > > TBO is established by the Manufacturer using
> > > criteria set forth by the FAA
> > > in an Advisory Circular, I don't remember which one.
> > > But, max continuous
> > > means just that, until it wears out. I remember the
> > > AC requiring testing at
> > > many power levels and very different types of
> > > testing to determine TBO, but
> > > the engine should be able to make TBO at any power
> > > setting, given no other
> > > misuse, or mismaintenance. They then require
> > > commercial use of the engine to
> > > follow manfacturer's recommendations which includes
> > > TBO. This has no
> > > exclusion for engines that have been run at full
> > > power a lot or a little.
> > >
> > > The FAA isn't going to certify something that the
> > > testing didn't allow for.
> > >
> > > What kills these engines prematurely is corrosion
> > > mostly as they sit around
> > > and rust, then get run, and the corroded areas then
> > > wear at an accelerated
> > > rate.
> > >
> > > I personally have flown an under powered Cherokee
> > > 140 at full power its
> > > entire service life doing photo runs and it easily
> > > made TBO because we were
> > > running daily flights.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: LarryRobertHelming
> > > [mailto:lhelming@sigecom.net]
> > > To: Wheeler North
> > > Subject: 360 makes 180 hp
> > >
> > >
> > > You wrote, "Who says??? Does Lycoming say that the
> > > O-360 is designed to put
> > > out 180 hp
> > > FULL TIME? Is this a FACT or just a BELIEF of
> > > yours?"
> > >
> > > I think you inserted the words, "FULL TIME" all by
> > > yourself. I think the
> > > engine produces 180 hp when called to do it under
> > > proper conditions. It
> > > will do that. I would assume that would be full
> > > power capability. Is that
> > > needed at all times during use of the engine?
> > >
> > > But, you should suspect that being capable of
> > > producing at that level and
> > > doing it to TBO are two different things.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > RV7 - Named 3XG
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Click on the
> > > this
> > > generous
> > > _->
> > > Contributions
> > > any other
> > > Forums.
> > >
> > > latest messages.
> > > List members.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Glenn Williams
> > 8A
> > A&P
> > N81GW
> >
> >
>
>
Message 56
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| Subject: | Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
I still subscribe to what Van said when the RV-4 first came out .
Someone asked Van what engine conversions could be used . He Said, " The best
conversion I can think of is , take 5 thousand dollars and convert it to a
used Lycoming ".
No need to say more !
do not archive
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
Message 57
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| Subject: | Service Bulletin |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
To check the small hoses you could take a strong string and blow it through
the hose , then tie a small cloth on the end and pull it through.
If that isn't fancy enough ; use a rifle cleaning rod .
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
Message 58
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Hey Hal,
actually we were doing kelp survey studies that are still on going and have
been for 48 years.
Prior to the airspace getting TCA/Class B ish we used to do some low level
stuff as well as the high level stuff.
I agree that the engine is not normally at full rated power due to altitude,
but neither is an automobile. The real point though was that the FAA
wouldn't certify it as such and then let the manufacturer claim such a TBO
for commercial utilization if it couldn't make TBO at all combinations of
power, including full throttle low altitude use for the entire duration.
When a properly run and maintained engine goes it tends to do it gradually
in the last 5% of its service life. If an engine has been overheated or
corroded and is consequentially suffering high rates of coking, it will fade
fairly fast as more coking makes it coke faster vs just plain wear which
tends to remain fairly constant until compression tells you its time.
RE Lycs. My experience has been that most engines which make TBO are well
oil serviced, fly a lot, and very often go beyond TBO. Now, that being said
they are also flown by folks who don't blast around the sky all the time
either.
I unfortuneately think I set this thread off by responed to something
someone said a few days ago. But I stand by my feeling and experience that
airmotive engines are better suited to airmotive applications than
automotive engines are. I also haven't seen too many folks installing
lycomings into chevys lately, so the reverse must also be true.
do not archive
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: I took the plunge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Taylor" <david@hom.net>
Thanks Jeff,
Looks like I should receive the empennage around next Friday. I'm getting
excited :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: I took the plunge
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
>
> Welcome Dave. You're gonna love building this airplane, and from what I
> understand, love flying it even more!
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> fuselage
> Peshtigo, WI
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Taylor" <david@hom.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: I took the plunge
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Taylor" <david@hom.net>
> >
> > Well,
> > After 2 years of research I finally ordered my tail kit (RV-7)
yesterday
> along with the 21 years of the RVator and a 2003 subscription to the
RVator.
> I'm looking forward to getting started but you can bet I'll need lots of
> help.
> >
> > -David Taylor (N207DT reserved)
> > empennage on order (finally)
> >
> >
>
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: I Took the Plunge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Taylor" <david@hom.net>
Thanks,
I've got an IA and a couple of experienced builders on my side. Hopefully
things will go fairly smooth.
-David
----- Original Message -----
From: <Oldsfolks@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: I Took the Plunge
> --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
>
> You will need help to get started if you aren't REALLY familiar with
aircraft
> sheet metal work. Get an experienced aircraft metal person to help you
> through the tail feathers - then it's pretty well repetition after that .
> I made some mistakes when I started , and built another horizontal
stabilizer
> . That can get costly -- and disappointing !!
> Good Luck , You made a good choice ,
>
> RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
> Charleston, Arkansas
>
>
Message 61
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| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro@erols.com>
Timing is checked at idle. Since the manifold pressure hose is removed
before the timing is checked, RPM does not affect timing setting.
If memory serves me right, Klaus's instructions do discuss setting timing
with a timing light.
Again the LEDs just get you in the ball park.
Carl.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure)
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
> The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this Lightspeed
> ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
> light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees
BTC>
At what rpm are you using the timing light? I am using dual Lightspeed Eng
ignitions systems and have set them per the maker's instructions, using the
LED indications.
John
Message 62
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| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Jim
It is exactly the part you think it is. It is usually a "star" shaped iron gear
(as you've described it) It is also sometimes called a reluctor. (Sort of like
valve lifter or valve tappet) When the tips of the iron rotor pass close by
the pick up coil, a very weak voltage is induced. This voltage is used to signal
the control box to break the ground to the ignition coil. This event causes
the spark to be generated by the coil.
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@InterMapSystems.com>
>
>What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
>
>I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
>side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
>installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
>
>I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
>
>Can someone shed light here?
>
>jim
>Tampa
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>czechsix@juno.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
>Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual
>crank-triggered Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I
>thought I'd pass along the info FYI...
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D finishing....
>
>
>IAD03IA017
>Incident occurred Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at LEESBURG, VA
>Aircraft:CRAIG N. MOEN RV-8, registration: N184CM
>Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
>This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
>Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
>completed.
>
>On October 22, 2002, about 1600 eastern standard time, a homebuilt RV-8,
>N184CM, experienced a failure of the right ignition system during descent
>into Leesburg Executive Airport (JYO), Leesburg, Virginia. The airplane
>landed uneventfully, and the certificated private pilot/builder/owner was
>not injured. No flight plan was filed for the flight that originated at
>Elizabethtown Airport, (4W1), Elizabethtown, North Carolina, about 1400.
>Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the personal flight conducted
>under 14 CFR Part 91.
>
>According to the pilot, he was on a return flight from Florida, when he was
>forced to land at Elizabethtown due to weather. While in the traffic pattern
>the engine backfired a few times. After landing, and while taxiing to the
>ramp, he determined that the right ignition source was working
>intermittently.
>
>The pilot was unable to replace the right ignition source in Elizabethtown,
>and returned to Leesburg the following day. As the airplane made a normal
>descent into Leesburg, the pilot discovered the right ignition source was
>"completely dead."
>
>The pilot had installed a Dual Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system with
>Hall Effect Sensor Modules, which replaced both magnetos.
>
>The pilot removed the back plate of the right Hall Effect sensor module and
>found the timing rotor had fractured, and the internal face of the back
>plate exhibited rotational scoring.
>
>The pilot reported that the right Hall Effect sensor module had accrued a
>total of 34 hours.
>
>According to the manufacturer, 400 timing rotors were currently in use and
>there been no reported failures.
>
>The fractured timing rotor and back plate were sent to Safety Board's
>Materials Laboratory, Washington, D.C, for further examination.
>
>
Message 63
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
My priorities in flying have always been safety first and keeping the operating
costs as low as possible and in order to do this the handling of the engine(s)
has to be near the top of the list.
In this case we are talking about naturally aspirated four cylinder Lycomings 0320
and up,it would be the same for the six cylinders.
My Lycoming manual for the 0360 says the maximum continuous power setting is 75%
and the red line RPM is 2700. Maximum cylinder head temperature 500 degrees
F but for maximum service life it should not exceed 435.
Some years back I was part owner in a charter operation and my job revolved around
maintenance and operating costs. The fleet of aircraft included nine Piper
Aztecs equipped with Lycomings. From operating experience we developed a engine
handling program that guaranteed all these engines went to TBO without a single
cylinder change.
The engines were new or factory remans run on Shell W oil. Each aircraft flew around
1000 hours per year.
Over a eight year period accumulated over 70,000 hours without a single cylinder
change or failure.
The engine handling procedures used can be seen on my post, Care and Feeding in
the archives. We also operated DC 3's and Beech 18's and the same general rules
applied.
Proper engine handling is a absolute must in single engine aircraft for safety
reasons and I believe we have an obligation to our passengers to do this.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
Message 64
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| Subject: | Re: RE: 360 makes 180 hp |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
The name of the magazine was Private Pilot should anyone be interested.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: 360 makes 180 hp
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> Hi Glenn,
> This might interest you;
>
> Yesterday I saw a January issue of one of the aircraft magazines has an
> article on the recently discussed Moony / Porche combination. It is
pictured
> and listed on the cover.
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Jim in Kelowna,
I think you accidently made a mis-statement below. You compared the timing rotor
to the ignition rotor in a distributor. The timing rotor, in conjunction with
the pick up coil, signals the control box when to trigger the ignition coil
primary circuit. (in electronic ignition systems) The comparable part in a "points
style" distributor would be the points cam lobe. The ignition points are
opened and closed by the cam lobe. The cam lobe is attached to the distributor
shaft. It (and the timing rotor) is rotated by the shaft. This is how the ignition
coil's primary circuit is controlled in the points (aka Kettering ignition)
system.
The ignition rotor sits on the distributor shaft, above the cam lobe. I think
this is where the confusion is. The rotor's job is to distribute the spark generated
by the ignition coil's secondary circuit to the appropriate spark plug.
Think of a black jack dealer dealing cards to the players. The spark comes out
of the ignition coil, through the coil wire, into the distributor cap, into
the center of the rotor. As the rotor is spun by the distributor shaft, it's
tip passes under the outer terminals of the distributor cap. These are the contact
points which the individual spark plug wires attach to.
The spark then jumps a slight air gap from the rotor tip, to each spark plug wire
and spark plug in turn. I hope this clears things up.
Charlie Kuss
You know you are getting old when mechanics below the age of 35 have no clue how
a points ignition system works or how to troubleshoot one!!!! ;-(
>Hi Jim,
>
>If you take the "Hall Effect Module" off of your engine (this can be done in
>place) and remove the cover you will find "the timing rotor" residing on the
>other end of the shaft that the drive gear was installed onto and held in
>place with the locknut.
>
>It serves essentially the same function as the rotor in a distributor. When
>you turn the housing you are changing the relationship timing wise between
>the hall effect magnet and the pick up. The engine driven timing rotor being
>the constant and the housing being the variable. With the re-install the
>unit with the bolts a bit loose. Turn the housing until the timing LED is
>lit at the manufactures suggested position and tighten the clamping bolts on
>the housing. The timing is set.
>
>Jim in Kelowna
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@intermapsystems.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@InterMapSystems.com>
>>
>> What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
>>
>> I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
>> side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
>> installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
>>
>> I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
>>
>> Can someone shed light here?
>>
>> jim
>> Tampa
>
>
Message 66
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Temp Sender? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Mark,
It's the oil temperature sender. If the EIS is designed to use that sender, it
will work. An easy way to check it is:
Remove the sender from the filter adapter. Connect the center terminal to the appropriate
wire in the EIS. Attach a ground wire to the sender housing. Attach
the other end of the ground wire to a good ground on the airframe. Submerge the
sender first in ice, than in boiling water. You should get a reading of about
32 degrees or a bit less (in ice) and 212 degrees (or a bit less if you are
at high altitude) in the boiling water. You can use this simple test to check
the accuracy of your temp sender system.
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
>On my O-320 (E3D) there is what appears to be a sender unit on top of
>the spin-on oil filter housing, directly in front of the filter. I can
>find no reference in the Lycoming manuals. I have the drawing of the
>rear accessory case and it shows a temp sender on the rear of the filter
>screen housing (which is not like my engine). What it is? If oil p. or
>t., can this be used for the EIS input?
>
>TIA from The PossumWorks
>Mark -6A, firewall forwardish...
>
>
Message 67
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| Subject: | Alternative Engine Questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
Yeah, I am learning, and having folks so respected like Tracy Cook and Belted
Airpower and so on are real experts. Just because I do not agree with
everything they say does not mean I do not think they are engine gurus, I am
just a doubting Thomas--sorry.
I have always owned import vehicles. The Mazda RX7 sucked fuel, was fast and
very smooth, 30,000 reliable miles when I traded it for a Suburu wagon with
the 1600 flat 4. That was the worst car I ever owned, noisy, slow and it over
heated when I would use the a/c. I got tired one day of sweating and refused
to turn the ac off--it overheated--good riddance. Fiat--Fix it Again ah
Tony!! Ford (not an import) very flammable and usually found on road dead.
Chevy, well the Vega is responsible for my Import lust. Toyota, does not get
any better.
In all honesty I think the Eggenfellner Subies look great and I hope they
work great for the guys buying them. I bet they are successful. The
BeltedAirpower also looks great and he is flying while I run my mouth, both
companies have nice and informative websites. I wish I could take them up on
an offer to show me but I am to busy but I bet he would make me eat crow.
The most advanced engines right now commonly encountered are motorcycle
engines, though 4-stroke dirt bikes are not designed for reliability, they
have some awesome technology in those little screamers. I rode a Yamaha
YZ426F, holy cow!!!!!!!!!! I know that Rotax has an aluminum V6 for marine
use and it like the 912/914 really is high tech (at least a little). Jabiru
has a good looking engine and I would love to see one in an RV. If I had the
money to experiment I would love to try that Chevy V6 with aluminum heads and
block. I think there are a lot of guys out there that would be really
interested in this if a package was put together, dry sump and limited acro
capable. I still think it would run 20,000 plus dollars but it is a start. I
am going to shut up now--you are welcome. I don't want to step on anyone. Do
Not Archive JR
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
> The plastic wrap makes me a little nervous because of flammability, and
toxic
> vapors that could result from a short situation, etc.
> Electrical tape placed strategically with good flammability ratings
instead?
> Robert
I must agree. That is why my plastic cable ties are all Mil Spec.
I got them at Terminal Town
http://www.terminaltown.com/index.htm
The page with the ties is
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page8.html
They are made by Thomas&Bates
The trademark is CATAMOUNT
I have two sizes. The small are working for almost everything.
Part # L-5-30-9-C Intermediate Cable Tie
Length 5.6"
Width 0.130"
Tensile Strength 30 lbs / 134N
Temp Rating 185F / 85C
Max Wire Bundle 1.25"
Tool / Setting L-200 / 3-5
Material Nylon Natural
Military Standard MS-3367-5-9
Also available are various wire bundling products for high temperature
areas. Check out this page:
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page206.html
I am striving to have every component of my aircraft the best possible.
Might be one of the reasons that I have been building for 7 years. One of
the others reasons would be that I have to work over 80 hours a week to pay
for it all.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
>
> Norman wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
> >
> > > I'm building and RV-9A and am wondering how you
> > > are securing the aft fuselage wiring. The wire goes
> > > through snap bushings on the bulkheads, but how do
> > > you secure it between the bulkheads? Do you just
> > > lace it together and let it dangle?
> >
> > Does the RV9 use J-stringers to stiffen the fuselage side skins like my
> > RV6A?
> > I bundled my wires in plastic wrap then laid them in the J-stringers. A
few
> > holes and some mil spec plastic tie wraps and they are very secure. I
used
> > Van's snap bushings at the bulkheads.
> >
> > Norman Hunger
> > RV6A Delta BC
> >
>
>
Message 69
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 12/13/2002 11:29:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,
elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com writes:
> The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it. Current
> flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (- negative)
Au contrare Pierre! A diode is forward biased (conducting) when the cathode
is made more negative than the anode and the current flows from negative to
positive.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 575hrs)
Message 70
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
I think you do! go ahead say more Please!
For instance start by telling us all where we can all find a used,
reasonably low time, flight ready O-320 or O-360 Lycoming engine for
$5000.00 USD. If you can supply a reliable source that can fulfill the
demand we will all grant you the fact that you need not say more! Oh and
I'll take four of them please.
The last time I checked Lycomings that fit that description where going for
about $15000.00 and up. This kind of pricing driven by the current and
ongoing shortage of supply is one among a number of driving forces that have
led us into this disscusion in the first place.
I see that you fly an RV4 How about selling one of us your engine for that
five grand. :)!
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <Oldsfolks@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Alternate Engines
> --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
>
> I still subscribe to what Van said when the RV-4 first came out .
> Someone asked Van what engine conversions could be used . He Said, " The
best
> conversion I can think of is , take 5 thousand dollars and convert it to a
> used Lycoming ".
> No need to say more !
> do not archive
>
>
> RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
> Charleston, Arkansas
>
>
Message 71
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"'rv-list@matronics.com'"@matronics.com
| Subject: | RE: low level etc |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Well, I have no objection to the thread itself, it just seemed like the
tension was kinda high as a result of it and then JT came along to announce
a sudden change in the law and got royally trounced. He's a good guy and
that was just a little too much on the personal side for this forum IMHO. do
not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: JRWillJR@aol.com [mailto:JRWillJR@aol.com]
Subject: low level etc
Well, why unfortunately, every time an interesting thread gets going it gets
squashed. If I don't have interest I just bypass/delete it, I don't get
angry at the fellows who might have an interest in the topic, why have the
threads if commenting is not allowed? This is why I come and go from the
Matronics lists and while I used to contribute funds no longer do so because
folks get angry every time there is a discussion about anything other than
their own personal interests. Please do not be offended by me. Good luck
with your project. JR
Message 72
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| Subject: | Re: RE: low level etc |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
In a message dated 12/14/2002 12:23:43 AM Central Standard Time,
wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us writes:
> Well, I have no objection to the thread itself, it just seemed like the
> tension was kinda high as a result of it and then JT came along to announce
> a sudden change in the law and got royally trounced. He's a good guy and
> that was just a little too much on the personal side for this forum IMHO.
> do
> not archive
>
Who is JT, I guess I missed that one and what law was suddenly changed? Do
Not Archive . JR
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