Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 63 Msgs - 12/12/02 (j1j2h3@juno.com)
2. 03:49 AM - RV-8 Fuselage Jig ()
3. 04:30 AM - Van's instrument lighting ? (BillRVSIX@aol.com)
4. 05:35 AM - Re: Service Bulletin (Rick Galati)
5. 07:20 AM - Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? (Sam Buchanan)
6. 07:31 AM - Re: Alternate Engines (Bobby Hester)
7. 08:04 AM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Charlie and Tupper England)
8. 08:05 AM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (RV4PatA@aol.com)
9. 08:31 AM - Re: Alternate Engines (lm4@juno.com)
10. 09:20 AM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Gert)
11. 09:36 AM - Alternate Engines (Eustace Bowhay)
12. 09:51 AM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Robert McCallum)
13. 10:09 AM - Re: Alternate Engines (Dr. Leathers)
14. 10:45 AM - Re: Princeton capacitive fuel level probes (Eustace Bowhay)
15. 11:01 AM - Alternate Engines, suggestions, etc (JRWillJR@aol.com)
16. 11:09 AM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Elsa & Henry)
17. 11:28 AM - Sport Aviation Mag and a Scanner (Not RV-Related) (Gannon, Terence)
18. 11:46 AM - Re: TBO (Kevin Horton)
19. 12:04 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Elsa & Henry)
20. 12:14 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Jim Jewell)
21. 12:19 PM - Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? (Miller Robert)
22. 12:32 PM - Re: Alternate Engines (Tracy Crook)
23. 12:37 PM - Re: sliders & tip-up (Norman)
24. 12:55 PM - Re: Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve (Norman)
25. 01:16 PM - Re: TBO (Jerry Springer)
26. 01:23 PM - Seat Belt Weights (Norman)
27. 01:28 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Todd Houg)
28. 01:28 PM - Re: Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve (Tracy Crook)
29. 01:36 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Charlie and Tupper England)
30. 01:37 PM - Re: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead (Dave Stewart)
31. 02:15 PM - Re: Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve (Kevin Horton)
32. 02:59 PM - Re: Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve (Alex Peterson)
33. 03:36 PM - Re: RV-8 Fuselage Jig (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
34. 03:38 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Vanremog@aol.com)
35. 05:07 PM - Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid (Elsa & Henry)
36. 05:40 PM - Re: Alternate Engines (William Davis)
37. 06:17 PM - Re: Alternate Engines (Tedd McHenry)
38. 06:33 PM - Re: Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve (Finn Lassen)
39. 06:43 PM - Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure (Dave Bristol)
40. 06:45 PM - Instrument lightning systems (bruno)
41. 06:48 PM - Re: TBO (Dave Bristol)
42. 08:12 PM - Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? (Meketa)
43. 08:18 PM - Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
44. 09:18 PM - Re: RV-8 Fuselage Jig (mark phillips)
45. 10:05 PM - Re: RV-8 Fuselage Jig (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 63 Msgs - 12/12/02 |
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Hey Doc
Don't let it scare you away. Some 3000+ guys (actually flying, plus
those that are past this stage) have figured out how to do it, so you can
too.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage
Do not archive
> --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
>
> <snip>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I'm still trying to decide which airplane to build. I see a lot of
> discussion about the difficulty of preparing the sliders and tip-ups.
Does
> anyone sell a pre-made lid for these things? Why are the ones in Van's
kits
Message 2
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| Subject: | RV-8 Fuselage Jig |
--> RV-List message posted by: <andrew.wereley@earthlink.net>
Free to good home, one RV-8 fuselage jig. I have recently moved my project
out of the jig and now I need to get the jig out of my garage. I'm happy to
donate it to whomever is willing to haul it away. It's straight and I'm
pleased with the way my fuse is proceeding.
I'm located in Vacaville, CA which is about 40 mi. northeast of San Francisco.
If we cut the jig in half, it will fit in the bed of a pickup with the gate
down and can be spliced back together later. Please reply off list to
awereley@hotmail.com.
Andy Wereley
Message 3
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| Subject: | Van's instrument lighting ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: BillRVSIX@aol.com
Hello IM trying to figure out the breaker size for van's lighted instruments.
I have six lighted instrument connecting to a breaker but I don't know how
many amps or watts the lights are to figure out the breaker and wire size.
its a 12 volt system.
2 ?-- My six flight instruments will all be lite by the EL light bezels and I
was wondering if any one new if the van's lighted instruments are going to
match or look the same color white/blue color as the light bezels or is it
such a problem to match lighted instruments I shouldn't worry about it.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Service Bulletin |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
To
check the small hoses you could take a strong string and blow it through
the
hose , then tie a small cloth on the end and pull it through.
If that isn't
fancy enough ; use a rifle cleaning rod .
RV-4 , N1191X ,
Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
Unless I am missing something here, the string trick is
impractical since the fittings installed on both ends of the VA-133 have an
opening of only .154 dia. It would take a pretty small cloth affixed to
one end of the string to pass through such a small opening. Then, once
inside the hose, it would have no way to break loose a possible curl in the
material outlined in the service bulletin. I'm not sure how a rifle cleaning rod
(do they come in such a small diameter?) would help either. Bottom line is
whatever you insert into this 7/16" hose must pass through a .154 gateway.
--- Rick Galati
--- rick07x@earthlink.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Norman wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>
> > The plastic wrap makes me a little nervous because of flammability, and
> toxic
> > vapors that could result from a short situation, etc.
> > Electrical tape placed strategically with good flammability ratings
> instead?
> > Robert
>
> I must agree. That is why my plastic cable ties are all Mil Spec.
<snip>
>
> I am striving to have every component of my aircraft the best possible.
> Might be one of the reasons that I have been building for 7 years. One of
> the others reasons would be that I have to work over 80 hours a week to pay
> for it all.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
I certainly find no fault with building high quality into our planes. If
you are concerned about flammability in wire bundles.......STOP.... and
reexamine your wiring architecture! The reason we install breakers
and/or fuses is to achieve a wiring architecture where there is no
possibility of wires getting hot enough to melt. There is no reason to
have ANY wires longer than a few inches that are not protected by either
a breaker, fuse, or fusible link. Wires that are bundled together in the
fuse or wing most definitely should be protected by devices that will
trip or blow in milliseconds after a short occurs, long before
flammability becomes an issue.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, Bob Nuckolls disciple)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@apex.net>
Jim Jewell wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
>I think you do! go ahead say more Please!
>For instance start by telling us all where we can all find a used,
>reasonably low time, flight ready O-320 or O-360 Lycoming engine for
>$5000.00 USD. If you can supply a reliable source that can fulfill the
>demand we will all grant you the fact that you need not say more! Oh and
>I'll take four of them please.
>The last time I checked Lycomings that fit that description where going for
>about $15000.00 and up. This kind of pricing driven by the current and
>ongoing shortage of supply is one among a number of driving forces that have
>led us into this disscusion in the first place.
>I see that you fly an RV4 How about selling one of us your engine for that
>five grand. :)!
>
>Jim in Kelowna
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Oldsfolks@aol.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Alternate Engines
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
>>
>>I still subscribe to what Van said when the RV-4 first came out .
>>Someone asked Van what engine conversions could be used . He Said, " The
>>
>>
>best
>
>
>>conversion I can think of is , take 5 thousand dollars and convert it to a
>>used Lycoming ".
>>No need to say more !
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
>>Charleston, Arkansas
>>
Nal, nal, Lucy, Let me splain ;-)
Best conversion for a new Lycoming engine is: take $5,000 dollars (and
buy fuel) and make it a used Lycoming engine!
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Working on the wings :-)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Vanremog@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/13/2002 11:29:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com writes:
>
>
>>The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it. Current
>>flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (- negative)
>
>
> Au contrare Pierre! A diode is forward biased (conducting) when the cathode
> is made more negative than the anode and the current flows from negative to
> positive.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV 575hrs)
>
Well, this thread won't be anywhere near as useful as the auto engine thread,
but it could be a lot of fun...
So, let's get it rolling. First, are we discussing electron flow or hole flow?
Charlie
(Please note emoticon: ;-) )
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV4PatA@aol.com
Doug,
I always leave the elect. buss off during engine start. That much load on
the system does weird things.
Pat Allender
RV-4
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: lm4@juno.com
Right Jim,
This 5,000 conversion, that Van has mentioned, has been brought
forward from the 80,s. A few years ago I heard him say 7,000 and
mid-time.
And ,of course, that would be without accessories.
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester N.Y.
do not archive
On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:36:02 -0800 "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> I think you do! go ahead say more Please!
> For instance start by telling us all where we can all find a used,
> reasonably low time, flight ready O-320 or O-360 Lycoming engine for
> $5000.00 USD. If you can supply a reliable source that can fulfill
> the
> demand we will all grant you the fact that you need not say more! Oh
> and
> I'll take four of them please.
> The last time I checked Lycomings that fit that description where
> going for
> about $15000.00 and up. This kind of pricing driven by the current
> and
> ongoing shortage of supply is one among a number of driving forces
> that have
> led us into this disscusion in the first place.
> I see that you fly an RV4 How about selling one of us your engine
> for that
> five grand. :)!
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Oldsfolks@aol.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Alternate Engines
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
> >
> > I still subscribe to what Van said when the RV-4 first came out .
> > Someone asked Van what engine conversions could be used . He Said,
> " The
> best
> > conversion I can think of is , take 5 thousand dollars and convert
> it to a
> > used Lycoming ".
> > No need to say more !
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
> > Charleston, Arkansas
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
And of course we'll have to consider layman's knowledge that 'current'
flows from positive to negative by convention and hence positive holes
and that electrons really flow from negative to positive.
BUT, just to boggle the mind, an electron really only moves a few inches
an hour down the wire, so, it takes quite a while for the electron
entering at the negative side to flow all the way to the end of the wire
say from the battery to to the starter which of course is incorrect
because being an electron it would move from the starter to the battery
positive terminal and if your starter and engine are working the
electron will actually never reach the battery because the time span is
too short and if it never reaches the battery why does my starter work.
which brings up the fact that static electricicty really is not static
because when I am statically charged I can make a spark jump which is a
flow of electrons which would make it dynamic and of course considering
that electrons don't flow fast through wires, what really made the spark
jump as it went almost too fast for me to see. okay geting of horse now
;-) Isn't electrics fun
Charlie and Tupper England wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
>
> Vanremog@aol.com wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
>>
>>In a message dated 12/13/2002 11:29:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>>elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>>The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it. Current
>>>flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (- negative)
>>>
>>
>>Au contrare Pierre! A diode is forward biased (conducting) when the cathode
>>is made more negative than the anode and the current flows from negative to
>>positive.
>>
>>-GV (RV-6A N1GV 575hrs)
>>
>>
>
> Well, this thread won't be anywhere near as useful as the auto engine thread,
> but it could be a lot of fun...
>
> So, let's get it rolling. First, are we discussing electron flow or hole flow?
>
> Charlie
>
> (Please note emoticon: ;-) )
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 11
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| Subject: | Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
This subject has been beat to death this past week but regardless of each ones
personal opinion we desperately need a reliable source of power for our RV's that
could be had for say 10,000 firewall forward.
As it stands now the cost of the new Lycomings eliminates many potential builders
and this is a shame. Van has succeeded in giving us the worlds best kitbuilt
at a very affordable price, now it is up to someone to come up with suitable
power at a affordable price. From what I have picked out of the past week's discussion
it seems that we are getting closer.
I have no problem with the development of automotive power and encourage those
who are trying and would be more than willing to bolt one on the front of my aircraft
if it could meet my list of qualifications.
The installed weight be no heavier than a Lycoming of comparable power.
Be able to fly in formation with another same model Lyco RV both using the same
manifold pressure.
Be able to run a Hartzell constant speed prop.
Fit into a cowling that would not take away from the good looks of an RV.
I think it can be done or maybe is already.
The RV list gets carried away once and awhile and one is tempted to push the un-subscribe
button but then pause for a moment and think about all the good that
comes out of it. We are fortunate to have such a list especially during the
building process.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Gert wrote:
> ;-) Isn't electrics fun
Yup !!!!
--
Bob McC
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
> >
> The only conversion I'm interested in, is the conversion of avgas to
smoke. As much, and as often as possible!!
DOC
do not archive
> >Subject: RV-List: Alternate Engines
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
> >>
> >>I still subscribe to what Van said when the RV-4 first came out .
> >>Someone asked Van what engine conversions could be used . He Said, "
> >>
>
> Nal, nal, Lucy, Let me splain ;-)
> Best conversion for a new Lycoming engine is: take $5,000 dollars (and
> buy fuel) and make it a used Lycoming engine!
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Working on the wings :-)
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Princeton capacitive fuel level probes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
Hi Mark:
I am using the VM1000 in my 6A and the fuel level probes that came with the
kit. They are probes that go the full length of the tank top to bottom. I
installed them along the back baffle, easily done when the rear baffle is
of. They have a threaded end and screw into a fitting riveted into the lower
rear corner that does not interfere with the inspection cover. the
calibration screws are in the threaded end and are easily reached with the
root fairing off. If for any reason they had to be removed it is just a
matter of taking the tank of and unscrewing the probe.
These probes may not be compatible with your installation but may be worth
looking at.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B. C.
----- Original Message -----
From: <czechsix@juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: Princeton capacitive fuel level probes
> --> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
> Guys,
>
> Is anyone out there using Princeton capacitive fuel level probes? Grand
Rapids Technologies is selling them with their EIS engine monitor, and they
are available pre-bent to fit the RV tanks so I'm assuming there must be
some in service. Any comments pro or con? I already have the Stewart
Warner float senders but am thinking about getting the capacitive probes and
putting them in before my wings are permanently mounted. They are more
expensive at $95 each but if it saves me *ever* having to pull them out for
replacement it's probly worthwhile. I know it can be done but in my case it
will be worse on the left wing since I have my fuel pump and gascolator in
the wing root area...
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Alternate Engines, suggestions, etc |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
In a message dated 12/14/2002 11:37:39 AM Central Standard Time,
ebowhay@jetstream.net writes:
> The RV list gets carried away once and awhile and one is tempted to push the
> un-subscribe button but then pause for a moment and think about all the
> good that comes out of it. We are fortunate to have such a list especially
> during the building process.
Gosh, I thought we was just sitting around with some beers having a
discussion.
Perhaps the list could have moderators, long time members who would have the
power to "edit" offensive or inflammatory material. Sometimes people say
things that are meant as harmless and it does not come across that way. For a
well run forum visit www.tractorbynet . It is the most civil, friendly
place on the net. It has moderators but more than that the people are just
good people and the forum is designed to allow a wide variety of topics.
Visit www.usjabiru.com for a look at their 8 cylinder 180/200 horse
engine under going development. It is priced around 15,000 I think, not sure
about that price exactly.
I thought the only thread on this forum that had gotten nasty as of recent
was the Insurance one, I apologize if I have caused anyone heartburn, I was
not in that one. I learned somethings from the engine thread and I figure
there are folks shopping for engines so they may have been interested in a
pro/con discussion.
Y'all have a happy holiday, I got to go fire up the Kubota, I am building a
new shop and need to get the slab banked in. If you think airplane engines
are expensive try looking at "real" tractors. Out of here for a while. Oh, do
not archive. JR
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Au contraire to you, GV (your posting is not identified by your name) The
"current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is ELECTRON
flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
negative! If you connect a diode anode to the positive terminal of a battery
and the cathode of it to the negative terminal, you will blow it. (assuming
the battery has sufficient capacity to do just that, which an aircraft
battery sure has) That is why the schematic of a diode shows a triangle
(anode) pointing to a straight line across the triangle point (the cathode)
and indicates the direction of current flow. (Anode to cathode, or + to -)
That is why diodes connected across solenoid or relay coils have the Anodes
connected to ground and the Cathodes connected to the positive supply that
energizes the coil. There will not be any current through the diode normally
when the coil is energized, BUT when the current is interrupted (switched
off), the collapsing field in the coil will generate (induce) a reverse
polarity voltage which will cause the diode to conduct and quench it. If
there was no diode there to do this, the resulting negative spike traveling
to the switch contacts will cause arcing as the switch contacts open.
Depending on the inductance of the coil, that spike could reach several
hundred volts!
Try this: If you have a starter or master solenoid sitting around not
installed, connect the coil, without a diode, to a battery with clip leads
and verify that it operates OK. Now disconnect one lead and observe the
spark as the contact is broken. Repeat the exercise, but this time, hold a
finger in contact with the cliplead and the battery terminal as you break
the contact.- You will not like the jolt you feel!
Cheers!!----------Henry Hore
Message 17
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| Subject: | Sport Aviation Mag and a Scanner (Not RV-Related) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gannon, Terence" <Terence.Gannon@trican.ca>
Hello Folks - this is not directly RV-related so pardon the interruption. Anybody
out there have a copy of the JULY 1995 edition of Sport Aviation, and wouldn't
mind scanning and sending an article for me? If so, please contact me off
list...thanx...
Terry in Calgary
RV-6 S/N 24414
"Right Wing"
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
>
>Yeah, if anyone is really interested in this subject they would need to get
>the AC's on this subject, certification standards. There are beliefs and
>there are facts and then there is the real world. The Lycomings are certified
>to TBO at full rated power. There is no take off power limit etc on our
>little Lycs. It is 2700 RPM continuous sea level standard conditions for full
>TBO.
If someone can actually find this AC and tells us which AC and which
page talks about how TBO is defined I would love to have the info. I
have looked at all the engine and maintenance related ACs I can find
on the FAA web site, and I can't find any discussion of TBO and what
it really means.
I know that with the modern turbine engines the manufacturers get
really touchy if an operator wants to operate at anything approaching
max continuous power (or thrust for jet engines) continuously, as
they know that they probably won't get the engine life "guaranteed"
by the engine manufacturer. Depending on the aircraft's design
mission, the aircraft manufacturer defines a typical mission profile,
including climb and cruise power settings that are lower than max
continuous power, and the engine manufacturer provides engine life
guarantees based on this mission profile. If the aircraft
manufacturer later wants to increase the climb or cruise thrust there
is a lot of hard negotiation with the engine manufacturer about
engine life guarantees, even if the increased power levels are well
below maximum continuous power.
So, I would be quite surprised if the Lycoming TBO actually assumes
maximum continuous power for 2,000 hrs. Lots of folks claim to know
that this is how the TBO is defined, but I would love to see some
evidence.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Au contraire to you, GV (your posting is not identified by your name) The
"current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is ELECTRON
flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
negative! If you connect a diode anode to the positive terminal of a battery
and the cathode of it to the negative terminal, you will blow it. (assuming
the battery has sufficient capacity to do just that, which an aircraft
battery sure has) That is why the schematic of a diode shows a triangle
(anode) pointing to a straight line across the triangle point (the cathode)
and indicates the direction of current flow. (Anode to cathode, or + to -)
That is why diodes connected across solenoid or relay coils have the Anodes
connected to ground and the Cathodes connected to the positive supply that
energizes the coil. There will not be any current through the diode normally
when the coil is energized, BUT when the current is interrupted (switched
off), the collapsing field in the coil will generate (induce) a reverse
polarity voltage which will cause the diode to conduct and quench it. If
there was no diode there to do this, the resulting negative spike traveling
to the switch contacts will cause arcing as the switch contacts open.
Depending on the inductance of the coil, that spike could reach several
hundred volts!
Try this: If you have a starter or master solenoid sitting around not
installed, connect the coil, without a diode, to a battery with clip leads
and verify that it operates OK. Now disconnect one lead and observe the
spark as the contact is broken. Repeat the exercise, but this time, hold a
finger in contact with the cliplead and the battery terminal as you break
the contact.- You will not like the jolt you feel!
Cheers!!----------Henry Hore
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
If I where to hold an imaginary diode in my thumb out closed fist with the
arrow symbol pointing up in the direction my thumb would be pointing. Which
end would I attach to the positive pole on whatever devise or application I
wish to protect or control?
Is this question too simplified, or am I not getting it at all?
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Protection diodes on starter solenoid
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry"
<elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>
> Au contraire to you, GV (your posting is not identified by your name) The
> "current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is
ELECTRON
> flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
> negative! If you connect a diode anode to the positive terminal of a
battery
> and the cathode of it to the negative terminal, you will blow it.
(assuming
> the battery has sufficient capacity to do just that, which an aircraft
> battery sure has) That is why the schematic of a diode shows a triangle
> (anode) pointing to a straight line across the triangle point (the
cathode)
> and indicates the direction of current flow. (Anode to cathode, or + to -)
>
> That is why diodes connected across solenoid or relay coils have the
Anodes
> connected to ground and the Cathodes connected to the positive supply that
> energizes the coil. There will not be any current through the diode
normally
> when the coil is energized, BUT when the current is interrupted (switched
> off), the collapsing field in the coil will generate (induce) a reverse
> polarity voltage which will cause the diode to conduct and quench it. If
> there was no diode there to do this, the resulting negative spike
traveling
> to the switch contacts will cause arcing as the switch contacts open.
> Depending on the inductance of the coil, that spike could reach several
> hundred volts!
>
> Try this: If you have a starter or master solenoid sitting around not
> installed, connect the coil, without a diode, to a battery with clip leads
> and verify that it operates OK. Now disconnect one lead and observe the
> spark as the contact is broken. Repeat the exercise, but this time, hold a
> finger in contact with the cliplead and the battery terminal as you break
> the contact.- You will not like the jolt you feel!
> Cheers!!----------Henry Hore
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Miller Robert <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
I agree, absolutely.
Circuit protection is most important.
(Actually, second most important... right after designing the circuits properly
in the first place. That's why I too am a "Bob Nuckolls disciple".)
Nevertheless, I would not then go on to wrap bundles of wires in "plastic
wrap"... which was original point.
Would rather see wire ties or electrical tape with acceptable flammability
ratings for bundling wires, as needed.
Robert
Sam Buchanan wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> I certainly find no fault with building high quality into our planes. If
> you are concerned about flammability in wire bundles.......STOP.... and
> reexamine your wiring architecture! The reason we install breakers
> and/or fuses is to achieve a wiring architecture where there is no
> possibility of wires getting hot enough to melt. There is no reason to
> have ANY wires longer than a few inches that are not protected by either
> a breaker, fuse, or fusible link. Wires that are bundled together in the
> fuse or wing most definitely should be protected by devices that will
> trip or blow in milliseconds after a short occurs, long before
> flammability becomes an issue.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, Bob Nuckolls disciple)
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
> I have no problem with the development of automotive power and encourage
those who are trying and would be more than willing to bolt one on the front
of my aircraft if it could meet my list of qualifications.
>
> The installed weight be no heavier than a Lycoming of comparable power.
> Be able to fly in formation with another same model Lyco RV both using the
same manifold pressure.
> Be able to run a Hartzell constant speed prop.
> Fit into a cowling that would not take away from the good looks of an RV.
> Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
I'm to the 'Three out of 4' point now. I thought I could see my way clear
to make my RD-1A/B reduction drive work with a Hartzell CS because it would
be relatively easy to add a port and get oil through the hollow prop shaft.
But I recently read that the oil pressure from governor is around 1200 psi.
I'm not familiar with the plumbing of a Lyc. Can anyone briefly tell me how
the high pressure oil from the governor on the accessory case gets through
the crank to the prop? I can't imagine the oil seals necessary to do this.
Tracy Crook
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: sliders & tip-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
> Does anyone sell a pre-made lid for these things?
No, not yet.
> Why are the ones in Van's kits so difficult to build?
They're not. They do take a long time to do properly. In my case I found the
canopy a place where additional optional equipment and design changes
tripled the labour required. I also am doing a completely finished upolstery
interior. Very time consuming to get the inside of the canopy frame.
> Would a well made lid from one RV6 fit another RV6
Not a chance. The sides of mine fit exactly because they were done on the
plane.
> or is there a high degree of variability from one plane to another?
I think so but might not be completely qualified to answer this question as
I haven't been going around measuring every RV I see.
> Finally, is one style (slider vs tip-up) safer than the other?
Here's a question I haven't seen yet. I don't know. In either case I believe
a canopy break out tool is a required piece of safety equipment. Think how
impossible it would be to open either style of canopy if the aircraft was
upside down in a soft field. History has proven they like to flip over when
engine out landings are conducted in soft fields. There are various tools
available from the auto supply houses. Many builders including myself
recommend modifying the bottom of the removable passenger joystick into a
nasty canopy smashing device. I'm doing both. One of the smarter ideas I've
picked up from this list.
> Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions. I'm learning as quickly as I can!
Thanks for your input.
No such thing as a stupid question. If anyone on this list if concerned
about looking dumb but has a question then I will volunteer my email address
nhunger@sprint.ca and go ahead and send it privately.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
>
> Doc
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
> Best advice for that fuel valve from Van's is to throw it directly into
the
> nearest trash can and buy something airworthy.
>
> Do not Archive
Well that might be a little harsh. I bet it functions just fine but the
thing is just crying out for a better looking handle. After seeing the
Andair valve I just had to have one. Also bought their vastly superior
gascolator.
Any one in the Vancouver area who wants to save themselves $23 USD from
their finishing kit is welcome to come over and have my origional never used
Vans fuel selector valve.
For those that don't know, Van will reduce the price of any kit by whichever
part you tell him to remove at the time of placing the order. The most
extreme example are the Harmon Rocket guys that order about half an RV4 kit
and get the rest from John.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Message 25
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Kevin Horton wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
>>
>>Yeah, if anyone is really interested in this subject they would need to get
>>the AC's on this subject, certification standards. There are beliefs and
>>there are facts and then there is the real world. The Lycomings are certified
>>to TBO at full rated power. There is no take off power limit etc on our
>>little Lycs. It is 2700 RPM continuous sea level standard conditions for full
>>TBO.
>
>
> If someone can actually find this AC and tells us which AC and which
> page talks about how TBO is defined I would love to have the info. I
> have looked at all the engine and maintenance related ACs I can find
> on the FAA web site, and I can't find any discussion of TBO and what
> it really means.
>
I have a copy of all of of Lycomings key reprints which is a compliation of key
maintenance and performance articles taken from the Textron Lycoming "Flyer" newsletter.
Every article on service life says "For maximum sevice life, maintain the following
recommended limits for continuous cruise operation:
(a) Engine power setting - 65% of rated or less"
(b) Cylinder head temperatures - 400deg F or below.
(c) Oil temperature - 165degF - 220deg F.
Lycoming also feels it is manditory to overhaul at 2000 hours or 12 years of service
life. They also say that there is no hard fast rule for determining when an engine
should be overhauled. It all is determined on how the engine is used in service.
It appears that there is nothing written that say an engine well run for 2000 hours
at full rated power setting of 100% based on the above saying maximum service at
65%
power.
Jerry
Message 26
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| Subject: | Seat Belt Weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
I would like to see postings with the weights of the various seat belt manufactors
posted on the RV List.
Lets keep things apples to apples and list only single seat weights of 5 point
systems not including the cable that Van supplies.
Scrotch
Simpson
Hooker
Any others?
Please include web addresses, source of purchase, and prices. I'm sure this compelation
will be very valuble to many listers and the archives.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Do not archive until supplying answers.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Todd Houg <thoug@attglobal.net>
Henry,
What you state below is correct, but I think you mis-read Doug's original description
of his connections. Doug's post states the following:
"I have the blue diode connected from the "S" terminal to ground with the red
band of the diode next to the "S" terminal."
Since the banded end of a diode corresponds to the cathode, Doug has the cathode
connected to the positive supply and the anode connected to ground just as you
described. Thus the Diode is reverese biased and non conducting until the coil
circuit opens and the coil inductance attempts to pull the voltage below ground
at which point the diode becomes forward biased and "clamps" the spike.
Todd Houg
Just another Electrical Engineer . . .
-----Original Message-----
From: Elsa & Henry
Subject: Re: RV-List: Protection diodes on starter solenoid
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Au contraire to you, GV (your posting is not identified by your name) The
"current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is ELECTRON
flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
negative! If you connect a diode anode to the positive terminal of a battery
and the cathode of it to the negative terminal, you will blow it. (assuming
the battery has sufficient capacity to do just that, which an aircraft
battery sure has) That is why the schematic of a diode shows a triangle
(anode) pointing to a straight line across the triangle point (the cathode)
and indicates the direction of current flow. (Anode to cathode, or + to -)
That is why diodes connected across solenoid or relay coils have the Anodes
connected to ground and the Cathodes connected to the positive supply that
energizes the coil. There will not be any current through the diode normally
when the coil is energized, BUT when the current is interrupted (switched
off), the collapsing field in the coil will generate (induce) a reverse
polarity voltage which will cause the diode to conduct and quench it. If
there was no diode there to do this, the resulting negative spike traveling
to the switch contacts will cause arcing as the switch contacts open.
Depending on the inductance of the coil, that spike could reach several
hundred volts!
Try this: If you have a starter or master solenoid sitting around not
installed, connect the coil, without a diode, to a battery with clip leads
and verify that it operates OK. Now disconnect one lead and observe the
spark as the contact is broken. Repeat the exercise, but this time, hold a
finger in contact with the cliplead and the battery terminal as you break
the contact.- You will not like the jolt you feel!
Cheers!!----------Henry Hore
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AAAAAAADABiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAGoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG
AAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgApgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AKoAI
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AAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAAmZ
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>
> > Best advice for that fuel valve from Van's is to throw it directly into
> the
> > nearest trash can and buy something airworthy.
> >
> > Do not Archive
I cussed my Van's valve for awhile too. After taking it apart and noticing
the tapered cylinder shape I understood why it got sticky. From then on I
would lift up slightly on the handle when I turned it and never had a
problem again. I later eliminated all valves with my EFI fuel system.
Do Not Archive
Tracy Crook
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Jim Jewell wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> If I where to hold an imaginary diode in my thumb out closed fist with the
> arrow symbol pointing up in the direction my thumb would be pointing. Which
> end would I attach to the positive pole on whatever devise or application I
> wish to protect or control?
> Is this question too simplified, or am I not getting it at all?
>
> Jim in Kelowna
OK Jim, here's the answer, but you are ruining all the fun & controversy.
:-(
Tie the banded end to the same terminal as the wire that comes from the positive
terminal on the battery.
The unbanded end goes to terminal that gets tied to ground and/or the negative
terminal of the battery.
Remember that we are talking about the terminals for the *coil*, not the load
carrying terminals of the solenoid, relay or contactor. 'Solenoid' is included
because most starter 'solenoid's actually function as a true solenoid when they
move the pinion gear into mesh with the ring gear, and also as a 'contactor' or
'relay' by completing the high-current switch function to run the starter motor.
Charlie
now bored in Slobovia
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Stewart" <davestewart@globalserve.net>
Dan........I questioned Vans about this a couple of months ago and Bruce
confirmed that the small aft lip in the top bulkhead goes on TOP and gets
partially cut away by radii. (The side view showing the top /bottom overlap
& harness wear block - and no "lip" in evidence - is correct). I did it this
way and it looks fine.
Dave (90252)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> I'm about to trim the curved shape into the F-652 upper baggage bulkhead
> (corrugated skin that attaches to F-706). I have an issue with the stock
> Van's sent me. There's a bent-back LIP at the very edge that is baffling
> me! Here are some photos:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/f652_issue.html
>
> It would be no big freakin' deal if the stock was tall enough to just cut
> off the extra, but there is NO extra. The stock is exactly 34" wide and
10
> 5/8" tall (if the bend were straightened), but the lip points AFT. It's
not
> even like it's bent in the same direction as the corrugation. Weird.
>
> Did anybody else have this issue with their F-652? I'm really
> baffled...this is definitely not damage, but I don't see the purpose! I
> assume Van's just shipped out a bogus skin to me, but it's after hours.
I'm
> not about to take my hand seamer to this to try to get it straight...screw
> that! I would love other builder's perspective on this issue...
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
>Howdy 'list-
>
>Somebody's website has a color graphic of Van's standard airfoil showing
>pressure gradients around it in flight- some kind of wind tunnel test
>results, I believe. I know I had it but it's buried somewhere on my
>well-organized hard drive. 8-( If someone could send me a link (or
>the file) I would appreciate it!
>
>Also, how do ya get the &%@*! handle off of Vans standard fuel valve
>without destroying it? -yes, I HAVE removed the screw! 8-)
>
>From The PossumWorks in TN
>Mark - do not archive -
>
You might be thinking of Leo Benetti-Longhini's site. It has a link
to a pressure distribution graphic.
http://www.cafes.net/leo/RV-6.html
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 32
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| Subject: | Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> >Also, how do ya get the &%@*! handle off of Vans standard fuel valve
> >without destroying it? -yes, I HAVE removed the screw! 8-)
I suppose the best way to get the handle off would be to fly it without
the screw, I'm sure the handle would fall right off when you run a tank
dry :
)
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 237 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Fuselage Jig |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@mcleodusa.net>
andrew.wereley@earthlink.net wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: <andrew.wereley@earthlink.net>
>
> Free to good home, one RV-8 fuselage jig. I have recently moved my project
> out of the jig and now I need to get the jig out of my garage. I'm happy to
> donate it to whomever is willing to haul it away. It's straight and I'm
> pleased with the way my fuse is proceeding.
>
> I'm located in Vacaville, CA which is about 40 mi. northeast of San Francisco.
> If we cut the jig in half, it will fit in the bed of a pickup with the gate
> down and can be spliced back together later. Please reply off list to
> awereley@hotmail.com.
>
> Andy Wereley
>
Andy, when I moved mine. I cut mine in two like you mentioned. It works very good
like that.
I first cut the splice pieces to length (approxiamtely 30 inches) and screwed them
on using Deck Screws. I used a half dozen or more on each side of the splice.
Then I reached down with a "saws-all" and made the cut while it was screwed
together. it never moved a bit when the cut was made.
It worked out real good.It is now on its third fuselage.
In a 1970, 3/4 ton ford pick-up, I moved an entire rv6 project including runout
engine, steel two-wing jig and sawed in two fuselage jig. One wing was clecoed
and
in the jig. Tail section was done, Fuselage in un opened box and no finish kit....
This move was from Seattle area to Central IL...I bought the used pick-up out
there and got all of my money back from a guy who was moving back out there to
live..
Phil
do not archive..
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 12/14/2002 12:07:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com writes:
> The
> "current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is ELECTRON
> flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
> negative!
A brilliant mind is a terrible thing to waste ;
). Fortunately for me we
have schools that teach Electronics 101, so you may wish to go see:
<A HREF="http://www.electronicstheory.com/html/e101-6.htm">http://www.electronicstheory.com/html/e101-6.htm
Keep in mind that it is still just theory and your particular religion my
believe the opposite.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 575hrs)
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Todd: you are right! (Sorry, Doug ) I thought that the "S" terminal was
grounded but apparently it is a positive supply from the starter
push-button, in which case the diode with the banded side connected to that
terminal is correct. I am not familiar with the Sky Tech starter as I have
the old Delco unit which requires the three terminal relay, two of which are
heavy duty that connect the battery direct to the starter. Now, the question
I have (to try to solve Doug's problem) is about the "I" terminal that goes
to the small terminal on the Sky Tech starter---It would seem to me that
this supplies power to another solenoid inside the starter which makes the
heavy current connection to the starter motor there---So, is there a
suppression diode inside for THAT solenoid ?? If not that one could cause a
very heavy back-EMF spike that would play "Merry Hell" (as I stated in the
first post on this subject).
So it would appear that we have two solenoids in series, the first, the
Van's unit which I agree the coil is correctly dioded, followed by Sky Tech
which may not be! Anybody know what's in there?
If there is no diode then, another one needs to be connected from the "small
terminal" (cathode) to ground (Anode) preferably right at the terminal to
suppress EMI (electro magnetic interference) that could occur if you put it
at the "I" terminal.
Cheers!!-----------Henry (Pierre to GV?)
PS See my letter to the Editor in the July 2002 issue pg 10 of
Sport Aviation on the subject.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "William Davis" <rvpilot@695online.com>
Tracy,
Oil is piped from the governor via an external line to a port at the front
of the engine. This port is between the two halves of the front main
bearing. This part of the bearing has a reduced diam. creating a small
chamber there.Holes in the crank and bearing at this point conduct the oil
into the hollow crank, then to the prop. There are 3 seals involved (1) an
O ring seal where the prop mates to the crankshaft flange, this one never
gives any trouble unless damaged during installation. (2 & 3), the front and
rear halves of the front main bearing. Some leakage occurs there back into
the case but the governor has enough capacity to overcome normal clearances.
If the clearances become too large,the prop will not function once the oil
warms up.
Bill
Original Message -----
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternate Engines
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
> >
> > I have no problem with the development of automotive power and encourage
> those who are trying and would be more than willing to bolt one on the
front
> of my aircraft if it could meet my list of qualifications.
> >
> > The installed weight be no heavier than a Lycoming of comparable power.
> > Be able to fly in formation with another same model Lyco RV both using
the
> same manifold pressure.
> > Be able to run a Hartzell constant speed prop.
> > Fit into a cowling that would not take away from the good looks of an
RV.
>
> > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
>
> I'm to the 'Three out of 4' point now. I thought I could see my way
clear
> to make my RD-1A/B reduction drive work with a Hartzell CS because it
would
> be relatively easy to add a port and get oil through the hollow prop
shaft.
> But I recently read that the oil pressure from governor is around 1200
psi.
>
> I'm not familiar with the plumbing of a Lyc. Can anyone briefly tell me
how
> the high pressure oil from the governor on the accessory case gets through
> the crank to the prop? I can't imagine the oil seals necessary to do
this.
>
> Tracy Crook
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
>
--snip--
> Be able to fly in formation with another same model Lyco RV both using the same
manifold pressure.
Eustace:
It's unlikely that any engine other than a Lycoming could satisfy this
requirement, since the relationship between power and manifold pressure is
unique to each engine design. I think the parameter you should use here is
brake mean effective pressure (BMEP), which is what manifold pressure is giving
you a rough indication of.
Here's how some of the alternatives compare to Lycomings, based on numbers
published by Lycoming, Belted Air Power, and Subaru. (You'll want to view this
table with a non-proportional font, such as Courier.)
O-320 O-360 BAP1 BAP2 Egg1 Egg2
----- ----- ---- ---- ----
displ. 320 360 262 262 150 150
RPM 2400 2400 3111 3111 4978 4000
HP 120 135 120 135 120 120
BMEP 124 124 117 131 127 158
For the Lycomings I've used standard cruise conditions ("24-squared").
For the Belted Air Power engine, which is a 4.3-litre Chevy, I've used 8/9 of
rated RPM, which is equivalent to 2400 RPM for a Lycoming. BAP1 is putting out
120 HP to match the O-320, and BAP2 is putting out 135 HP to match the O-360.
The BAP engine "brackets" the Lycomings, in that it doesn't have to work as
hard as the O-320 to keep up with it, but has to work slightly harder than the
O-360 to keep up with it.
For the Eggenfellner Subaru, I've used 8/9 of peak power RPM (4978) for Egg1
and Eggenfellner's recommended cruise RPM (4000) for Egg2. I think Jan would
agree that 4978 RPM is too high for cruise. However, at 4000 RPM the BMEP is
significantly higher than the others just to maintain 120 HP, and is in fact
probably higher than the engine can produce at full throttle and a few thousand
feet of altitude. This is why I say that the Eggenfellner engine is a fine
choice for an RV-9, but perhaps slightly lacking for RV-7s and RV-8s.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve |
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>>
>>
>>>Best advice for that fuel valve from Van's is to throw it directly into
>>>
>>>
>>the nearest trash can and buy something airworthy.
>>
>>
>I cussed my Van's valve for awhile too. After taking it apart and noticing
>the tapered cylinder shape I understood why it got sticky. From then on I
>would lift up slightly on the handle when I turned it and never had a
>problem again. I later eliminated all valves with my EFI fuel system.
>
>Tracy Crook
>
>
No, this should be archived: How to make Van's fuel valve work: pull and
turn.
Finn
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
My questions are, why would you report this kind of incident and why would the
safety board investigate an experiemental ignition system?
Dave
do not archive
czechsix@juno.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
> Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual crank-triggered
Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I thought I'd pass along
the info FYI...
>
> -
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Instrument lightning systems |
--> RV-List message posted by: bruno <rv4@videotron.ca>
Hello listers
I've been thinking about installing instruments lights in my
RV-4 for a while now and tonight while looking thru the Spruce & Specialty
catalogue(2001 page 385) I came across a few systems.
So my questions are#
1.-Is there anyone on the list who has installed the fiberlite
package and if so does it come complete with enough bezels to light up a
standard instrument panel?
2.-How hard was it to installed?
I also looked at Paul Besing web site and I really liked the UMA bezel
lights but it might become fairly expensive to do a complete instrument
panel,specially for us Canadians with the outrageous exchange rate and
taxes.
Looking forward to yours imputs
Cheers
Bruno Dionne
C-GDBH RV-4
rv4@videotron.ca
Do not archive
Message 41
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Boy, now I feel better about auto engines!
> ... an auto engine can last many hundreds of
> hours in aircraft use...
>
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Meketa" <acgm@gvtc.com>
Hello Yall
The term Mil-Spec itself has nothing do with the flammability or quality
of a particular item, just that it meets a certain specification. If my wire
ties are giving off enough fumes to cause a problem I will likely wish
I had a parachute.
George Meketa
RV-8, N444TX, 219.1 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft
fuselage?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>
> > The plastic wrap makes me a little nervous because of flammability, and
> toxic
> > vapors that could result from a short situation, etc.
> > Electrical tape placed strategically with good flammability ratings
> instead?
> > Robert
>
> I must agree. That is why my plastic cable ties are all Mil Spec.
> I got them at Terminal Town
> http://www.terminaltown.com/index.htm
> The page with the ties is
> http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page8.html
>
> They are made by Thomas&Bates
> The trademark is CATAMOUNT
> I have two sizes. The small are working for almost everything.
> Part # L-5-30-9-C Intermediate Cable Tie
> Length 5.6"
> Width 0.130"
> Tensile Strength 30 lbs / 134N
> Temp Rating 185F / 85C
> Max Wire Bundle 1.25"
> Tool / Setting L-200 / 3-5
> Material Nylon Natural
> Military Standard MS-3367-5-9
>
> Also available are various wire bundling products for high temperature
> areas. Check out this page:
> http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page206.html
>
> I am striving to have every component of my aircraft the best possible.
> Might be one of the reasons that I have been building for 7 years. One of
> the others reasons would be that I have to work over 80 hours a week to
pay
> for it all.
>
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
> >
> > Norman wrote:
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
> > >
> > > > I'm building and RV-9A and am wondering how you
> > > > are securing the aft fuselage wiring. The wire goes
> > > > through snap bushings on the bulkheads, but how do
> > > > you secure it between the bulkheads? Do you just
> > > > lace it together and let it dangle?
> > >
> > > Does the RV9 use J-stringers to stiffen the fuselage side skins like
my
> > > RV6A?
> > > I bundled my wires in plastic wrap then laid them in the J-stringers.
A
> few
> > > holes and some mil spec plastic tie wraps and they are very secure. I
> used
> > > Van's snap bushings at the bulkheads.
> > >
> > > Norman Hunger
> > > RV6A Delta BC
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@mcleodusa.net>
Jim Jewell wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> That "equally ancient V/6" that you refer to has an old Grandfather; The
> General Motors (Possibly Chevrolet back then) V/8 design, Is in some
> respects quite a lot older than many would believe. The first GM push rod
> overhead valve V/8 was a running prototype in 1917. The pushrod rockers
> required frequent manual oiling as they where external to the crankcase and
> oiling system.
> The first GM production V/8 I think was offered publicly in 1955. This was
> the fore runner of most all GM engines produced since then. The 283, 327,
> 305, 350, 400 CID. and others worked hard and have lived long and varied
> lives around the world.
>
> However the term "equally ancient" is at the very least stretching your
> point. The 4.3 Vortec V/6 that much of this alternative engine discussion
> seems to have centered on certainly has an old historic lineage. The Design
> changes that have transpired down through the years have breathed exiting
> new life into that old iron horse.
> A trip to a library or a web search will provide the seeker with a very long
> list of design changes. From the first offering of the V/6 (I'm uncertain as
> to the precise year) in the seventies or eighties to the present. The list
> is long. Many of the changes driven by anti pollution laws, some arising
> from the auto racing industry, a good many due to warranty issues.
>
> Some if not most where subtle changes. Others such as intake manifold runner
> design, exhaust system, combustion chamber modifications, hall effect
> ignition and individual port fuel injection have produced a powerful engine
> with a good record of reliability and endurance. The marine version seems to
> be a popular hard worker that stands up well to conditions simular to those
> in aircraft.
>
> Due to the Aircraft industry certification process the Lycoming design
> started out of the gate much more developed than it's automotive
> counterparts of that era (mid thirties). As the years have passed it to has
> gone through changes. The changes have in the main been borne out of better
> materials, machining and casting proceedures, and refinments driven by in
> the field failure mode discoverys, the dreaded ADs {|:-(!
>
> The fact that the thirties technology stood the test of time so well makes
> this topic very interesting.
> The fact that the automotive technology has come as far as it has is also
> good interesting topic material.
> The arguable parallels of the two that this disscusion has touched on are
> interesting, They come at the time when gasoline and diesel burning internal
> combustion piston engines might be seeing the end of their development
> stage. Some say this technology is nearing the end of its dominance as the
> chosen source of power what we refer to as the modern civilised world.
>
> Yes we are having a discussion here, All in All this discussion has been
> edifying, sometimes humorous, wide ranging and long, This after all is what
> the list is about.
>
> This thread will run it's course and come up again. In the meantime some
> more Experimental builders will create and put hours on their alternatives
> whatever they might choose. This will again result in more information to
> support yet another go around with this worthwhile thread.
>
> Please feel free to correct and or update this email as needed
> I need to learn.
>
> Jim In Kelowna .
>
What web-site do you find all this history?
I am one lycoming driver that is finding this thread very interesting and I hope
it never really "ends".
Phil
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Fuselage Jig |
--> RV-List message posted by: "mark phillips" <mphill@gcctv.com>
Cheez Phil, is that jig from Seattle, Washington
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@mcleodusa.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Fuselage Jig
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
<sisson@mcleodusa.net>
>
> andrew.wereley@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: <andrew.wereley@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Free to good home, one RV-8 fuselage jig. I have recently moved my
project
> > out of the jig and now I need to get the jig out of my garage. I'm
happy to
> > donate it to whomever is willing to haul it away. It's straight and I'm
> > pleased with the way my fuse is proceeding.
> >
> > I'm located in Vacaville, CA which is about 40 mi. northeast of San
Francisco.
> > If we cut the jig in half, it will fit in the bed of a pickup with the
gate
> > down and can be spliced back together later. Please reply off list to
> > awereley@hotmail.com.
> >
> > Andy Wereley
> >
>
> Andy, when I moved mine. I cut mine in two like you mentioned. It works
very good
> like that.
> I first cut the splice pieces to length (approxiamtely 30 inches) and
screwed them
> on using Deck Screws. I used a half dozen or more on each side of the
splice.
> Then I reached down with a "saws-all" and made the cut while it was
screwed
> together. it never moved a bit when the cut was made.
> It worked out real good.It is now on its third fuselage.
>
> In a 1970, 3/4 ton ford pick-up, I moved an entire rv6 project including
runout
> engine, steel two-wing jig and sawed in two fuselage jig. One wing was
clecoed and
> in the jig. Tail section was done, Fuselage in un opened box and no finish
kit....
>
> This move was from Seattle area to Central IL...I bought the used pick-up
out
> there and got all of my money back from a guy who was moving back out
there to
> live..
> Phil
>
> do not archive..
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Fuselage Jig |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@mcleodusa.net>
mark phillips wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "mark phillips" <mphill@gcctv.com>
>
> Cheez Phil, is that jig from Seattle, Washington
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@mcleodusa.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Fuselage Jig
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
> <sisson@mcleodusa.net>
> >
> > andrew.wereley@earthlink.net wrote:
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: <andrew.wereley@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > > Free to good home, one RV-8 fuselage jig. I have recently moved my
> project
> > > out of the jig and now I need to get the jig out of my garage. I'm
> happy to
> > > donate it to whomever is willing to haul it away. It's straight and I'm
> > > pleased with the way my fuse is proceeding.
> > >
> > > I'm located in Vacaville, CA which is about 40 mi. northeast of San
> Francisco.
> > > If we cut the jig in half, it will fit in the bed of a pickup with the
> gate
> > > down and can be spliced back together later. Please reply off list to
> > > awereley@hotmail.com.
> > >
> > > Andy Wereley
> > >
> >
> > Andy, when I moved mine. I cut mine in two like you mentioned. It works
> very good
> > like that.
> > I first cut the splice pieces to length (approxiamtely 30 inches) and
> screwed them
> > on using Deck Screws. I used a half dozen or more on each side of the
> splice.
> > Then I reached down with a "saws-all" and made the cut while it was
> screwed
> > together. it never moved a bit when the cut was made.
> > It worked out real good.It is now on its third fuselage.
> >
> > In a 1970, 3/4 ton ford pick-up, I moved an entire rv6 project including
> runout
> > engine, steel two-wing jig and sawed in two fuselage jig. One wing was
> clecoed and
> > in the jig. Tail section was done, Fuselage in un opened box and no finish
> kit....
> >
> > This move was from Seattle area to Central IL...I bought the used pick-up
> out
> > there and got all of my money back from a guy who was moving back out
> there to
> > live..
> > Phil
> >
> > do not archive..
> >
> >
>
yes all the way, one plane is already flying, then mine, then yours...
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