Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:33 AM - Assistance (Jim Jewell)
2. 01:33 AM - Overhaul/repair gyro (Stephen J. Soule)
3. 03:39 AM - Re: Hartzell Prop for Sale (Duane Bentley)
4. 04:15 AM - IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets (Kevin Horton)
5. 04:16 AM - Re: Hartzell Prop for Sale (Michael J. Veth)
6. 05:55 AM - Fuel Sender Help (Jack Textor)
7. 06:33 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Help (Tracy Crook)
8. 06:43 AM - Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets (John Huft)
9. 07:11 AM - EIS and Cap. fuel senders ()
10. 07:43 AM - Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets (RICKRV6@aol.com)
11. 07:50 AM - Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets (Dave von Linsowe)
12. 07:51 AM - Tooling holes and wiring. (Dana Overall)
13. 08:48 AM - Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets (Dan Checkoway)
14. 09:12 AM - Re: w-822 inspection hole covers (nut plate countersinking) (Elsa & Henry)
15. 09:12 AM - Re: w-822 inspection hole covers (tchoug)
16. 10:15 AM - Re: 2003 Calendar (Bartrim, Todd)
17. 10:21 AM - Re: w-822 inspection hole covers (Rick Galati)
18. 10:39 AM - Re: 2003 Calendar (Bob Hassel)
19. 10:48 AM - RE; RV-List W822 Inspection hole covers (Dick DeCramer)
20. 10:59 AM - QB and aft tooling holes for wiring conduit (Al Karpinski)
21. 11:11 AM - Music Connection (Vincent Welch)
22. 11:32 AM - Canopy Screws (FlashandCo@aol.com)
23. 11:34 AM - Re: 2003 Calendar (Bill VonDane)
24. 11:40 AM - Elevator Trim servo mounting location (Chris)
25. 11:46 AM - Re: Paint Shops on East Coast (Lenleg@aol.com)
26. 12:10 PM - Re: 2003 Calendar (John Starn)
27. 12:15 PM - Gear legs -- titanium? (Chris)
28. 12:36 PM - RV Hanger Space Available - Atlanta GA (Steffensen Mark (swr1mas))
29. 12:54 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (George Wilson)
30. 01:12 PM - altimeter needed (Frazier, Vincent A)
31. 01:17 PM - The Call I Never Wanted to Get... (Vern Darley,II)
32. 01:22 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (Stein Bruch)
33. 01:26 PM - Re: Elevator Trim servo mounting location (Elsa & Henry)
34. 01:36 PM - List of Contributors #2 - Thank You... (Matt Dralle)
35. 01:43 PM - Re: w-822 inspection hole covers (Curt Hoffman)
36. 03:12 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (Elsa & Henry)
37. 03:19 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (Jerry Springer)
38. 03:24 PM - Trade-a-coin (John Starn)
39. 03:31 PM - Re: The Call I Never Wanted to Get... (Jerry Springer)
40. 04:30 PM - Re: Music Connection (RW)
41. 04:32 PM - Re: Canopy Screws (Dick DeCramer)
42. 04:52 PM - Re: Canopy Screws (Dick DeCramer)
43. 05:06 PM - Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets (John Huft)
44. 05:16 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? === Some facts. (kempthornes)
45. 05:49 PM - Re: 2003 Calendar (Gary Zilik)
46. 06:15 PM - Any RV Projects close to the OAK airport? (David Rigby)
47. 06:26 PM - Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets (Kevin Horton)
48. 06:27 PM - Side skins (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
49. 07:20 PM - Engines--not agian (JRWillJR@aol.com)
50. 07:21 PM - Re: RV-List Canopy Screws (Dick DeCramer)
51. 07:34 PM - Re: 2003 Calendar (John Starn)
52. 07:48 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? === Some facts. (Mark Phillips)
53. 08:19 PM - Re: 2003 Calendar (Curt Reimer)
54. 08:27 PM - [Fw: Re: Airport Problems] (Bernie_C@erols.com)
55. 09:33 PM - Re: The Call I Never Wanted to Get... (KAKlewin@aol.com)
56. 09:48 PM - RV project in OAK, CA (David Rigby)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Thanks for the good responses to my question re-prop control cable:
With the help from this list the operation was a success the Prop control cable
fits well and should operate as expected.:-)!
This list is something ain't it?!
Thanks again
Jim in Kelowna
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Overhaul/repair gyro |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule@pfclaw.com>
Anyone know a shop I can send a turn & bank to for clean up and repair? I
would be happy to use a Canadian company, if you can recommend one.
Stephen Soule
Huntington, Vermont
N227RV RV-6A flying
N222SZ RV-8 under construction
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
Norman,
I bought the prop new through Vans about the same time I bought the new
engine. Recently I've been doing some investigation on this issue of prop
stress, particularly with Hartzell's concern over resonance from electronic
ignition (I had the LASAR option installed by Lycoming when I purchased the
new engine). In addition, I had my 0-360 engine ported and polished by
Lycon right after purchase, a mod when accomplished by them still leaves the
engine under original certification. I did not have the high compression
piston change. When Lycon ran it on the dyno after the mod, it reached 200
hp at 2700 rpm. Again another warning flag here recently by Hartzell on
operation of their C/S prop on engines above 180 hp without the engine crank
counterweights installed.
Now that I am finishing up the airplane I had to question whether I wanted
to start flying with these additional concerns, so I investigated composite
props. In hindsight on the whole building process, I would recommend
delaying major purchases until "just in time", to be the most educated. But
then, with the economic downturn over the last 18 months, the investments
liquidated to produce cash that I put out in 2000-2001 would have
disappeared anyway if I waited to 2003.
Duane
do not archive
Message 4
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lycoming@yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
I corrected the errors I found in the IO-360 power spreadsheet. It
is built from the Lycoming chart for the IO-360-A, -C, -D, -J, -K and
AIO-360 series.
I tried comparing it to data from the POH for a 1977 Mooney 201 with
a IO-360-A3B6 engine. However it quickly became clear that the data
in the Mooney POH differs significantly from the Lycoming power
chart. For example, at 8000 ft and 2700 rpm, Mooney claims that
23.6" manifold pressure gives 75% power, while the Lycoming power
chart gives something like 21" for 75%. Either Mooney wants to
cruise at artificially high power to give good marketing numbers, or
they measure manifold pressure differently than Lycoming or Lycoming
has changed their power chart since 1977.
The corrected Excel 4 spreadsheet basically replicates the graphical
power chart found in the Lycoming Operator Manual. The zipped
spreadsheet can be found on my web site - there is a link in the
Engine part of the RV Links section, and there will be a link on the
front page of the site for the next while.
Several years ago I created an Excel 4 spreadsheet version of a power
chart for the Lycoming O-360-A and -C engines. It is also available
on my web site.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Michael J. Veth" <vethm@vsrtechnology.com>
Duane,
Which composite prop did you decide to go with?
Mike Veth
RV-8A Wings
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Duane Bentley wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
>
> Norman,
>
> I bought the prop new through Vans about the same time I bought the new
> engine. Recently I've been doing some investigation on this issue of prop
> stress, particularly with Hartzell's concern over resonance from electronic
> ignition (I had the LASAR option installed by Lycoming when I purchased the
> new engine). In addition, I had my 0-360 engine ported and polished by
> Lycon right after purchase, a mod when accomplished by them still leaves the
> engine under original certification. I did not have the high compression
> piston change. When Lycon ran it on the dyno after the mod, it reached 200
> hp at 2700 rpm. Again another warning flag here recently by Hartzell on
> operation of their C/S prop on engines above 180 hp without the engine crank
> counterweights installed.
>
> Now that I am finishing up the airplane I had to question whether I wanted
> to start flying with these additional concerns, so I investigated composite
> props. In hindsight on the whole building process, I would recommend
> delaying major purchases until "just in time", to be the most educated. But
> then, with the economic downturn over the last 18 months, the investments
> liquidated to produce cash that I put out in 2000-2001 would have
> disappeared anyway if I waited to 2003.
>
> Duane
> do not archive
>
Message 6
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"RV-List \(E-mail\)" <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Fuel Sender Help |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" <jack@personnelincorporated.com>
Happy New Year friends! I'm just finishing my second tank and found the, I
think, fuel sender is inaccurate. When testing with the arm all the way up
it reads full. When testing with it in the lowest position it reads about a
couple gallons off the lower gauge peg. I tried it with two gauges and got
the same reading. My first sender seems to be right on. Anyone else run
into this problem?
Thanks,
Jack Textor
RV8, wings
KDSM
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Help |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
Yep, the right tank gauge on my RV-4 reads backwards too. I mounted the
sender upside down. I promise to do better on my -8 :-)
Tracy Crook
tcrook@rotaryaviation.com
www.rotaryaviation.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Textor" <jack@personnelincorporated.com>
<rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender Help
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Textor"
<jack@personnelincorporated.com>
>
> Happy New Year friends! I'm just finishing my second tank and found the,
I
> think, fuel sender is inaccurate. When testing with the arm all the way
up
> it reads full. When testing with it in the lowest position it reads about
a
> couple gallons off the lower gauge peg. I tried it with two gauges and
got
> the same reading. My first sender seems to be right on. Anyone else run
> into this problem?
> Thanks,
> Jack Textor
> RV8, wings
> KDSM
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
Some of the Mooneys had an air filter bypass arrangement that could be
operated in flight. I have used this in the past, and pulling the bypass on
would result in an increase of manifold pressure of about 1 1/2 inches. I
don't remember exactly which models had it.
My RV8 with K&N filter (canister style, 3x bigger than Van's) shows 22 to
22.5 inches at 8000 ft. (depends on barometric pressure that day).
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
lycoming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RV-List: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
I corrected the errors I found in the IO-360 power spreadsheet. It
is built from the Lycoming chart for the IO-360-A, -C, -D, -J, -K and
AIO-360 series.
I tried comparing it to data from the POH for a 1977 Mooney 201 with
a IO-360-A3B6 engine. However it quickly became clear that the data
in the Mooney POH differs significantly from the Lycoming power
chart. For example, at 8000 ft and 2700 rpm, Mooney claims that
23.6" manifold pressure gives 75% power, while the Lycoming power
chart gives something like 21" for 75%. Either Mooney wants to
cruise at artificially high power to give good marketing numbers, or
they measure manifold pressure differently than Lycoming or Lycoming
has changed their power chart since 1977.
The corrected Excel 4 spreadsheet basically replicates the graphical
power chart found in the Lycoming Operator Manual. The zipped
spreadsheet can be found on my web site - there is a link in the
Engine part of the RV Links section, and there will be a link on the
front page of the site for the next while.
Several years ago I created an Excel 4 spreadsheet version of a power
chart for the Lycoming O-360-A and -C engines. It is also available
on my web site.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 9
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| Subject: | EIS and Cap. fuel senders |
--> RV-List message posted by: <larry@bowenaero.com>
Surely I am not the only one using Van's capacitance fuel senders and the
Grand Rapids EIS for fuel level. Am I?
What are other's using for the converters -- the little gizmos that allow
the sender to talk to the EIS? Greg at EIS offers very expensive
Princeton converters.
Van's has cheap converters for the EI fuel gauage ($45/tank?). Blue Mtn
has similar devices for $70 for use with their EFIS. Are either of these
compatible with the EIS? Are there other options? Who has been here,
done this?
Thanks,
Larry@BowenAero.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets |
--> RV-List message posted by: RICKRV6@aol.com
My engine came from a 1987 Mooney 201 and it had this device. It seemed the
best of all worlds. The intake provided a choice of flitered air for ground
and dirty environment operations, direct unfiltered ram air in flight, and an
alternate air source if things really went downhill. I opted to install an
F-1 Rocket intake and a cone shapped K&N filter on my -8. I've equiped the
airplane for IFR but unfortunately don't have a means to provide alternate
air beyond the filter.
Rick McBride
80027 N523RJ
In a message dated 1/3/03 9:44:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, rv8tor@lazy8.net
writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
> Some of the Mooneys had an air filter bypass arrangement that could be
> operated in flight. I have used this in the past, and pulling the bypass on
> would result in an increase of manifold pressure of about 1 1/2 inches. I
> don't remember exactly which models had it.
>
> My RV8 with K&N filter (canister style, 3x bigger than Van's) shows 22 to
> 22.5 inches at 8000 ft. (depends on barometric pressure that day).
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
> To: rv8-list@matronics.com; rv-list@matronics.com; rv8list@yahoogroups.com;
> lycoming@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RV-List: IO-360 &O-360 power spreadsheets
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> I corrected the errors I found in the IO-360 power spreadsheet. It
> is built from the Lycoming chart for the IO-360-A, -C, -D, -J, -K and
> AIO-360 series.
>
> I tried comparing it to data from the POH for a 1977 Mooney 201 with
> a IO-360-A3B6 engine. However it quickly became clear that the data
> in the Mooney POH differs significantly from the Lycoming power
> chart. For example, at 8000 ft and 2700 rpm, Mooney claims that
> 23.6" manifold pressure gives 75% power, while the Lycoming power
> chart gives something like 21" for 75%. Either Mooney wants to
> cruise at artificially high power to give good marketing numbers, or
> they measure manifold pressure differently than Lycoming or Lycoming
> has changed their power chart since 1977.
>
> The corrected Excel 4 spreadsheet basically replicates the graphical
> power chart found in the Lycoming Operator Manual. The zipped
> spreadsheet can be found on my web site - there is a link in the
> Engine part of the RV Links section, and there will be a link on the
> front page of the site for the next while.
>
> Several years ago I created an Excel 4 spreadsheet version of a power
> chart for the Lycoming O-360-A and -C engines. It is also available
> on my web site.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
John,
How close is your M.P. gage on the ground? I found mine to be almost an
inch off.
Dave
RV-6
The need for speed-->
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
> Some of the Mooneys had an air filter bypass arrangement that could be
> operated in flight. I have used this in the past, and pulling the bypass
on
> would result in an increase of manifold pressure of about 1 1/2 inches. I
> don't remember exactly which models had it.
>
> My RV8 with K&N filter (canister style, 3x bigger than Van's) shows 22 to
> 22.5 inches at 8000 ft. (depends on barometric pressure that day).
>
> John
Message 12
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| Subject: | Tooling holes and wiring. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
After answering a couple e-mails here lately concerning the wiring issue
with the 7 wing, I thought I would post a picture. For those building the 7
and probably the 8, the tooling holes at the aft portion of the wing ribs
are perfectly lined up. I used a unibit and bore each hole out to 5/8" and
ran this PVC pipe though. I know this is an old hat technique but these
tooling holes get the pipe out of the way of everything, including pitot
lines, aileron pushrod and bellcrank.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/p1030002.jpg
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Some of the Mooneys had an air filter bypass arrangement that could be
> operated in flight. I have used this in the past, and pulling the bypass
on
> would result in an increase of manifold pressure of about 1 1/2 inches. I
> don't remember exactly which models had it.
Going off RV topic here, but why not...
That's the "ram air" system, and I believe the M20E, M20F, and early M20J
models had it. There eventually was a service bulletin on the M20J to
remove the system. Unlike the prior models, the M20J had a round butterfly
valve that had a history of getting sucked into the induction system
and...well...you know.
The system was really effective on the earlier models, which had terrible
cowl designs, and when activated it could produce over an inch of MAP
increase. But the M20J was so much more efficiently cowled and baffled to
begin with (thanks Lopresti) that the ram air made only about 1/2"
difference. So complying with the SB (removing the ram air system and
glassing over the hole in the cowl) didn't sacrifice much.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: w-822 inspection hole covers (nut plate countersinking) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
That is a problem everywhere a K1100-8 nut-plate is used on thin aluminum
and rivets have to be countersinked (countersunk?): I made a little tool to
install all my nut-plates: I took a short piece of 3/16" dia brass rod and
turned the end down so I could thread it to #8-32 right to the end of the
shoulder to the 3/16" original dia. If you screw this piece of rod into a
nut plate, you'll find goes-in a couple if turns before it starts to bind in
the distorted part of the nut-plate. So cut off the threaded part until the
shoulder clamps the nut-plate to the piece it will finally be riveted to
(assuming you've drilled the hole .173" dia, [#17 drill] beforehand).
The resulting little tool can be used for all #8 nut-plates and does not
take-up the space of a screw head does, thus allowing a 1/2"dia #40
countersink to countersink the aluminum AND the nut-plate together for
riveting.
I found it frustrating to drill nut-plate holes #30 to hold them with a
1/8" clecoes while the rivet holes are drilled, and then enlarging them to
#17 for the 1/8" screw: What invariably happens, the flute of the drill will
grab into one side of the #30 hole and the result will be an-off center #17
hole!
Cheers-------Henry Hore
Message 15
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| Subject: | w-822 inspection hole covers |
--> RV-List message posted by: tchoug <tchoug@micron.com>
Hi Bob,
In most cases, I use the oops rivets for attaching the nut plates to the
thin stock. The 3/32" ones have a very small head that works great for
attaching the nut plates when countersinking the skin. I usually just
countersink the skin with about ten turns of the deburring tool. Then you
don't have to mess with trying to dimple the nutplates.
If you need some oops rivets let me know, I can stop by and drop some off.
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Moser [mailto:moserr@earthlink.net]
Subject: RV-List: w-822 inspection hole covers
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert Moser" <moserr@earthlink.net>
How should one countersink the rivet holes that attach the k1100-08
platenuts for the inspection covers to the bottom wing skins?
The outboard skin is .025" so machine countersinking is not a great option,
but dimpling doesn't leave the platenut flush with the skin. I know the
platenuts only hold the access cover on, but still, I was wondering what
others have done.....
Things that make you go hmmmmmm!
Bob Moser
East Bethel, MN
RV-8 Wings
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
> Perhaps it is because it has the big 7 tail.
>
> Ross Schlotthauer
> RV7
>
Geeez, you "7" guys try to take credit for all the parts of other airplanes.
Doesn't the "7" have the "9" tail. ;-)
do not archive
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
RE: RV-List: 2003 Calendar
Perhaps it is because it has the big 7 tail.
Ross Schlotthauer
RV7
Geeez, you 7 guys try to take credit for all the parts of other airplanes. Doesn't
the 7 have the 9 tail. ;-)
do not archive
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
<A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm" TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Imagination is more important than knowledge
-Albert Einstein
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: w-822 inspection hole covers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
rear fuselage
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
And the 9 fuse!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bartrim, Todd
Subject: RE: RV-List: 2003 Calendar
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
> Perhaps it is because it has the big 7 tail.
>
> Ross Schlotthauer
> RV7
>
Geeez, you "7" guys try to take credit for all the parts of other airplanes.
Doesn't the "7" have the "9" tail. ;-)
do not archive
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
RE: RV-List: 2003 Calendar
Perhaps it is because it has the big 7 tail.
Ross Schlotthauer
RV7
Geeez, you 7 guys try to take credit for all the parts of other airplanes.
Doesn't the 7 have the 9 tail. ;-)
do not archive
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
<A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm"
TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Imagination is more important than knowledge
-Albert Einstein
Message 19
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| Subject: | RE; RV-List W822 Inspection hole covers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel@rconnect.com>
I dimpled the nut plates as well as the overlying skins. My dimple dies come from
Avery Tools and included female dies with one side flat so the threaded portion
of the nut plate will not interfere with the function of the dies. Careful,
you can snap the tip of of the male 3/32" die ($30 error) very easily when
dimpling steel nut plates if there is any sideload or pressure.
Dick DeCramer
RV-6
Northfield, MN
Baffles & FAB "The end is in sight"
Message 20
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| Subject: | QB and aft tooling holes for wiring conduit |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Al Karpinski" <karpinski@baldcom.net>
For those of you who have QB wings.. and still want to run a conduit...
You can still use the aft tooling holes to run a 5/8 OD PVC conduit for
your wires..
I went to McMaster-Carr..
Got 3 drill bit extensions.. 2 ft each.. Made it easy to use the Unibit..
3 Minute job.. With the right tools!
_________________________
Al Karpinski
RV8QB
Central NY 12"+ snow today !
Nice warm shop to work in !
Message 21
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| Subject: | Music Connection |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent@hotmail.com>
Hey Guys, I have a question for those of you that have or are planning to
have music in your cockpit. I currently have a PS Engineering PMA4000 Audio
Panel. The panel is mono (which doesn't bother me) and has one input marked
as music jack. I have a Sony AM/FM/MP3 player with front and rear left and
right speakers. I am assuming that I will only connect one set, but which,
front or rear? Also, with only one music input, how do in connect the left
and right?
I called PS Engineering tech support and they said that maybe I should tie
the two speaker outputs together through a 10K resistor but they weren't
sure.
How have others done this?
Vince Welch
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: FlashandCo@aol.com
Listers,
From those who have gone before, is there much difficulty in using the #6 screws
into tapped holes everywhere on the RV6 sliding canopy? I like the looks of
screws along the canopy front bow and backbone, but wonder if screws can be used
along the 1/2 dia. rear canopy bow. Also, Van's talks about drilling the
plexi to 1/8 inch for the #6 screw, but an RVAtor article by Charles Wagner (Aug
97) discusses opening these suckers to 5/16 inch due to plexi expansion/contraction.
Any good middle ground?
Thanks for the assist.
Bob Gordon
Dover DE
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 2003 Calendar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <n8wv@vondane.com>
Actually, the -7 has the -8's tail and wings!
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
Subject: RE: RV-List: 2003 Calendar
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
> Perhaps it is because it has the big 7 tail.
>
> Ross Schlotthauer
> RV7
>
Geeez, you "7" guys try to take credit for all the parts of other airplanes.
Doesn't the "7" have the "9" tail. ;-)
do not archive
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
RE: RV-List: 2003 Calendar
Perhaps it is because it has the big 7 tail.
Ross Schlotthauer
RV7
Geeez, you 7 guys try to take credit for all the parts of other airplanes.
Doesn't the 7 have the 9 tail. ;-)
do not archive
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RX-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB (reserved)
<A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm"
TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Imagination is more important than knowledge
-Albert Einstein
Message 24
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vansairforce <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | Elevator Trim servo mounting location |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
I have been reading a lot about the mounting of the elevator trim
servo. Some where that I can't find now I saw a modification to mount
that servo on the aft deck instead of in the elevator. Has any one done
this? And if so how did it work out. It seems to me like getting that
weight out of the elevator would be desirable and it also seems like it
would just be all around easier to put it on the aft deck.
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Paint Shops on East Coast |
--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
Will:
I had a real nice conversation with Brian on the phone. My hometown is
pretty close to Loris ... so I am going down for a visit. Hope to see the 8
he is presently working on.
There is a good chance I will make an opening he has for February.
Again, thanks for the information.
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL
Greensboro, N.C.
44 hours !!
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 2003 Calendar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
Do Not Archive
I can hardly wait for the tempting -ten tail tale temperamental tantrum
that's sure to follow. But then isn't what a tail is supposed to do,
follow. KABONG
<n8wv@vondane.com>
>
> Actually, the -7 has the -8's tail and wings!
>
> -Bill
>
Message 27
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RV-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Gear legs -- titanium? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
I have been reading about titanium gear legs in the archives. Like lots
of things there was mostly disinformation so I thought I would post
what I know and see what others thought. First stiffness. Titanium is
not as stiff as steel, steel is almost twice as stiff as titanium. Then
their is strength. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but as I
recall, the titanium alloy that comes to mind for this application is
called 6-4 with 6% aluminum and 4% vanadium and most of the remainder
titanium. This alloy is pretty close to the strength of 4140 steel but
not quite as strong. Ok then there is weight. Steel is .283 lb/in
3
(or around there depending on alloy) and 6-4 titanium is .160 lb/in
3.
Now that we have the stats lets talk about what we want to accomplish
with titanium gear legs.
I think it is common knowledge that the gear legs are limiting factor in
gross take off weight of an RV. (I don't know about the 8 since it uses
different gear design than the other RV's) So what I want is a stronger
gear leg with out adding weight. Since Weight increases with the square
of the diameter we can make a titanium leg 33% larger and still have the
same weight. Stiffness increases with 4th power of the diameter so with
a 33% larger leg the stiffness would be a little more than triple the
original size leg and since steel is almost twice as stiff as titanium
that would mean that our new titanium gear leg is about 50% stiffer than
the steel leg. Now for strength, strength increases with the cube of
the diameter so our new gear leg would be about 2.35 times stronger than
the original diameter and since the titanium is close to the strength of
steel this new leg should be noticeably stronger than the steel let.
Now lets keep in mind that I'm not an engineer (I just play one on the
internet). There are other material properties that I am not aware of
that may make titanium a bad choice here. But there are also titanium
spring alloys that I think are even stronger than than 6-4 and still
have the same stiffness, maybe they would be a better choice.
So how do we mount the new larger diameter gear to the plane. Well if
the leg is larger, but we turn down the end that goes in the mount on
the plane so it fits in the same hole the steel leg did, it would seem
that we have just defeated our purpose. So new mounts are in order,
which makes this modification a whole lot more difficult, unless some
one knows some thing I don't or can see some other way to mate the new
larger leg to the original gear mount.
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | RV Hanger Space Available - Atlanta GA |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steffensen Mark (swr1mas)" <swr1mas@ups.com>
Listers,
I have hanger space available in the Atlanta area at (47A) Cherokee County
Airport, for one RV either flying or final assembly. Hanger is 60 X 60 with
my RV8A and a Mooney. The Mooney is gone once my partneers RV6A is complete.
We are looking for one RV to join us.
email or call me for the details.
Do Not Archive
Mark Steffensen
W: 404 828-8477
H: 678 580-3318
RV8A 310 hours
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Gear legs -- titanium? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "George Wilson" <topgun@cox-internet.com>
Interesting post. We have been looking at this material for gear legs on an
ultralight. IE a redesign of the Ultracruiser that had unsprung gear and
there have been gear problems.=0D
=0D
GW=0D
=0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
=0D
From: rv-list@matronics.com=0D
Subject: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium?=0D
=0D
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>=0D
=0D
I have been reading about titanium gear legs in the archives. Like lots=0D
of things there was mostly disinformation so I thought I would post=0D
what I know and see what others thought. First stiffness. Titanium is=0D
not as stiff as steel, steel is almost twice as stiff as titanium. Then=0D
their is strength. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but as I=0D
recall, the titanium alloy that comes to mind for this application is=0D
called 6-4 with 6% aluminum and 4% vanadium and most of the remainder=0D
titanium. This alloy is pretty close to the strength of 4140 steel but=0D
not quite as strong. Ok then there is weight. Steel is .283 lb/in=0D
3=0D
(or around there depending on alloy) and 6-4 titanium is .160 lb/in=0D
3.=0D
Now that we have the stats lets talk about what we want to accomplish=0D
with titanium gear legs.=0D
=0D
I think it is common knowledge that the gear legs are limiting factor in=0D
gross take off weight of an RV. (I don't know about the 8 since it uses=0D
different gear design than the other RV's) So what I want is a stronger=0D
gear leg with out adding weight. Since Weight increases with the square=0D
of the diameter we can make a titanium leg 33% larger and still have the=0D
same weight. Stiffness increases with 4th power of the diameter so with=0D
a 33% larger leg the stiffness would be a little more than triple the=0D
original size leg and since steel is almost twice as stiff as titanium=0D
that would mean that our new titanium gear leg is about 50% stiffer than=0D
the steel leg. Now for strength, strength increases with the cube of=0D
the diameter so our new gear leg would be about 2.35 times stronger than=0D
the original diameter and since the titanium is close to the strength of=0D
steel this new leg should be noticeably stronger than the steel let.=0D
=0D
Now lets keep in mind that I'm not an engineer (I just play one on the=0D
internet). There are other material properties that I am not aware of=0D
that may make titanium a bad choice here. But there are also titanium=0D
spring alloys that I think are even stronger than than 6-4 and still=0D
have the same stiffness, maybe they would be a better choice.=0D
=0D
So how do we mount the new larger diameter gear to the plane. Well if=0D
the leg is larger, but we turn down the end that goes in the mount on=0D
the plane so it fits in the same hole the steel leg did, it would seem=0D
that we have just defeated our purpose. So new mounts are in order,=0D
which makes this modification a whole lot more difficult, unless some=0D
one knows some thing I don't or can see some other way to mate the new=0D
larger leg to the original gear mount.=0D
=0D
--=0D
Chris Woodhouse=0D
3147 SW 127th St.=0D
Oklahoma City, OK 73170=0D
405-691-5206 (home)=0D
chrisw@programmer.net=0D
N35 20.492'=0D
W97 34.342'=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=2E
Message 30
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| Subject: | altimeter needed |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
An ultralight flying buddy needs a working altimeter, cheap, for his ultralight.
Anybody got one to sell? I'll pass the info to him.
Contact me offlist at
vfrazier@usi.edu
do not archive
Vince
Message 31
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| Subject: | The Call I Never Wanted to Get... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vern Darley,II" <vern@mindspring.com>
The Call I Never Wanted to Get...
By Vern Darley (vern@mindspring.com)
New Years day was going great! A full day with several helpers out in the garage
had resulted in some significant progress on my 6A. The sun was going down and
we were beginning to think about ending a long workday and heading in for supper.
Suddenly, my cell phone over on the workbench began to ring. Answering
it,I heard the most plaintiff cry for help I'd heard in a long time as my hangermate
and friend moaned into the cell phone-"Vern,I need your help. I've gone
down off the approach end of 31." "I'll be there in fifteen minutes or less",
I said as I grabbed my coat and hollered these sketchy details to my wife and
rushed out the door to my car.
Driving down the bumpy dirt road that leads down towards the end of runway 31,
I almost hit two large deer grazing beside the trail. As I drove alongside the
elevated railroad track ,I was amazed at how high it was. From the air on final
approach,it looks so small. But down here at ground level,it is like the great
wall of China. I made a mental note to never hit that! Those large poles over
there. Ah, those must be the approach lights. Man,they are tall! Better miss
those also.It is such a steep bank sloping up to the runway.I always thought
it was level!
Where could he be? Such dense brush? Is he on this side or the other side of the
tracks? I'll honk my car horn some and listen for him. Wait...there he is, waving
from that swampy area on the other side of the ten foot airport fence. Is
that his RV crumpled upside down? How can I get to him? His head is bloody!
Is he OK? This fence is sure tough to get over! Wow, you could really hurt yourself
on one of these chain link barbs!
Reaching my friend, he looked bad. His complexion was flushed.His eyes were dilated.
Shock seemed to be overcoming him although he insisted he was OK and could
walk out. His snowy head of hair was a bloody mess as he said he had survived
the impact only to cut his scalp as he crawled out of the baggage compartment
of his crumpled, inverted RV-6A which was now upside down in six inches of
water and in the middle of razor-sharp briars and tall grass. Was that gas leaking
from the right wing? Was the master switch off? Was the engine still hot?
Quickly touching the exposed exhaust pipe, I determined that a hot engine was
no longer a threat. How would we get him out of here? What should I do? The airport
was practically abandoned tonight as the weather had been marginal VFR
and it was New Years day.
Just then, a twin Cessna broke out on approach. Could they see us? Moments later,
the two pilots came racing down to the end of the runmway about a hundred yards
from us.They had seen us! Could it be? Yes,it was my Flight Surgeon and
his assistant! WOW. God provided two medical persons at exactly our time of need!
Ignoring my friends claims that he was OK,the surgeon insisted on examining
my friend while the assistant summoned the emergency equipment. Soon the abandoned
airport was awash in flashing lights as multiple firetrucks, ambulances
and police arrived. Friend was soon in an ambulance and getting his wounded
head patched up. He was right. His bloody mess was just from a superficial cut
on his head. The medics released him. As he was about to climb into my car for
a much -desired ride to his place, one of the police officers said, "You can't
leave now. You're OK medically,so you have to stay here to file an accident
report and talk to the FAA. They are on their way."
Several hours later,it seemed, every one had filled all reports, the crash site
was secure with police patrols scheduled, the fire department had put down some
devices to capture the dripping fuel,and a notam had been filed by the FAA
letting other airmen know about the "hazardous broken RV" 100 yards from the runway.
Meanwhile,I observed a local TV station vehilcle snooping around with a
camera truck. Numerous "ambulance chasers" with radio scanners began driving
around the airport. Newsmen came and went.
The next morning, the airport manager had arranged for a crash recovery company
with a small boom vehicle to come recover the airplane. We put it back into it's
normal spot in the Falcon RV Squadron Hanger. Oh, it looks so pitiful now
with broken and bent parts where once had been a sleek bird! FAA folks wanted
to check out the systems and do more paperwork. So, they spent part of a day checking
her over again before ruling out pilot error and laying the blame to carb
icing-even though friend had it on.It was just not enough for the temperature
and dewpoint spread we had that evening.
Now several days later, we've all been sobered by the thought of how bad this could
have been. We are so grateful that friend is still with us. We are so much
encouraged by how sturdy the basic RV design is to take such a lick and still
hold together.
The RV apparently lost it's engine on final on the localizer straight-in approach.
It almost made it to the grass prior to the runway, but the right main gear
struck a sewer manhole about 4 feet up and this flipped it. Friend says he can
still see it all in slow motion in his mind. However,he has no idea how he
went from the left seat to the baggage area as the RV flipped over onto it's back.
The seat belts and harnesses appear OK, the canopy rollbar was barely dented.
Of course,the canopy was broken, especially where the large pocket knife
was able to punch some "starter hole."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Pilot friend wants to share a few immediate recomendations with fellow RV'ers so
we all learn from his experience.
>Install and use the best seat belts and harnesses you can afford.
>Have some instrument or device on your person with which to break out your canopy
if need be. Had he not had a very respectable pocket knife on him,he could
not have reached the front side pockets or right control stick to use as canopy
break-out tools. Laying upside down in the baggage compartment, he had no real
room to kick out the glass. He could only push against it. With a second person,or
a full baggage area,it would have been even more unlikely he could get
out quickly.("think fire")
>Forget the old tale about Lycomings not getting carb ice. They do! If you are
going to use it,do so before pulling an engine to idle so you get some benefit
from it. RV's using only the short 5" tube as alternate air-beware! You need
a full carb heat muff! Even if you normally do not need it in your local climate,
someday, somewhere, someone else will need it.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Gear legs -- titanium? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Chris,
Gear legs are not the "only" limiting factor for RV gross weights, only one
of a number of things and there is no reason to go into them all.
Your mathematical calculations are on the right track but not completely
correct. One simple example comes to mind~The russians tried this
philosophy on airplane designs, by taking american designs and "scaling"
them up, then replacing some components with different ones (titanium,
plastic, etc..)to offsett the size penalty and the end results were not
specatular. I have some very close acquaintances working on the Airbus
A-380 project and this is the hardest area they have to overcome.
I'm glad you're inquisitive about modifying these planes, but things like
this end up being the proverbial "SLIPPERY SLOPE" and while good in theory
and on paper, the rule diminishing results almost always comes into play and
as such usually end up mildly dissapointing.
I by no means wish to impede people from trying new things on these planes,
after all that is what the spirit of experimenting is all about. Just be
carefull, be prepared, and be cautious.
BTW, I haven't seen a progress report on your project yet.....how's it
going???
Cheers,
Stein Bruch - BS,Civil Engineering/Physics ~ A&P.
RV6, Flying.
RV7, Empennage.
Oh, and don't forget the...
DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Subject: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium?
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
I have been reading about titanium gear legs in the archives. Like lots
of things there was mostly disinformation so I thought I would post
what I know and see what others thought. First stiffness. Titanium is
not as stiff as steel, steel is almost twice as stiff as titanium. Then
their is strength. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but as I
recall, the titanium alloy that comes to mind for this application is
called 6-4 with 6% aluminum and 4% vanadium and most of the remainder
titanium. This alloy is pretty close to the strength of 4140 steel but
not quite as strong. Ok then there is weight. Steel is .283 lb/in
3
(or around there depending on alloy) and 6-4 titanium is .160 lb/in
3.
Now that we have the stats lets talk about what we want to accomplish
with titanium gear legs.
I think it is common knowledge that the gear legs are limiting factor in
gross take off weight of an RV. (I don't know about the 8 since it uses
different gear design than the other RV's) So what I want is a stronger
gear leg with out adding weight. Since Weight increases with the square
of the diameter we can make a titanium leg 33% larger and still have the
same weight. Stiffness increases with 4th power of the diameter so with
a 33% larger leg the stiffness would be a little more than triple the
original size leg and since steel is almost twice as stiff as titanium
that would mean that our new titanium gear leg is about 50% stiffer than
the steel leg. Now for strength, strength increases with the cube of
the diameter so our new gear leg would be about 2.35 times stronger than
the original diameter and since the titanium is close to the strength of
steel this new leg should be noticeably stronger than the steel let.
Now lets keep in mind that I'm not an engineer (I just play one on the
internet). There are other material properties that I am not aware of
that may make titanium a bad choice here. But there are also titanium
spring alloys that I think are even stronger than than 6-4 and still
have the same stiffness, maybe they would be a better choice.
So how do we mount the new larger diameter gear to the plane. Well if
the leg is larger, but we turn down the end that goes in the mount on
the plane so it fits in the same hole the steel leg did, it would seem
that we have just defeated our purpose. So new mounts are in order,
which makes this modification a whole lot more difficult, unless some
one knows some thing I don't or can see some other way to mate the new
larger leg to the original gear mount.
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim servo mounting location |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
If I remember right, Fred Stucklen told me he had mounted it in the aft deck
area. Check with him. You can get his address from the photo share he posted
yesterday, of the panel details of his new RV6-A -------------Cheers!! Henry
Hore
Message 34
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| Subject: | List of Contributors #2 - Thank You... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I was particularly touched this year by all of the wonderful comments
people made regarding the Lists and how much they mean to them. As I have
said many times before, running these Lists and creating the many new
features is truly a labor of love.
I will be shipping out the third and final shipment of Flight Bags and A&P
Text Books this afternoon. According to the Post Office, maximum delivery
to the most remote of areas is 8 days. I will have no outstanding Gift
requests following this shipment, so if you don't get the Gift(s) you
requested by, say, the 20th of January, please let me know via email.
I would also once again like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) who so generously supported this year's
Fund Raiser with both free and substantially discounted merchandise!!
Below you will find the 2002 List of Contributors #2 current as of
12/31/02! Have a look at the list of names there as these are the people
that make all of the services possible! I can't thank you all enough for
your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser!
Once again, THANK YOU for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------- 2002 List of Contributors #2 -----------------
Adamson, Arden
Andrews, Donald
Bates, Marcus Jr.
Bello, Ariel
Bowhay, Eustace
Boyd, Dave
Carpenter, Kenneth
Carter, David
Clark, Lynn
Dezzani, Peter
Domascimento, Marcio
Enns, Dennis
Fogerson, Richard
Forero, Bert
Gadd, Skip
Gardner, Kip
Hasper, Joseph
Herndon, Richard
Hill, Jeff
Hurd, James
Jefferies, Mark
Johnson, Darrell
Johnson, Jackie
Jones, Eric
Kosta, Michael
Larson, Glenn
Macy, Frank "lucky"
Mehrhoff, Stan
Metzger, Jim
Minichan, David
Moore, Robert
Moore, Warren
Mosher, Doc
Mosier, Colby
Pahnke, Douglas
Reynolds, Richard
Reynolds, Stephen
Sloan, Alex
Slyfield, Skip
Tauchen, Bryan
Travis, T.E.
Uribe, Guillermo
Waligroski, Gregg
Wentzell, David
------------------- 2002 List of Contributors #2 -----------------
DNA: do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: w-822 inspection hole covers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
I've dimpled the nutplates as well. No problem.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: w-822 inspection hole covers
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>
> You can dimple nutplates yourself. I do it all the time. Use the female
> die with a side ground flat for close clearances.
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss
> > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:09 PM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: w-822 inspection hole covers
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Charles Kuss <chaskuss@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Bob,
> > My solution was to replace the K1100 nutplates with
> > MS21049-08K nutplates. These are the "triple dimpled"
> > nutplates. The rivet holes are also dimpled on these
> > nutplates. I bought 100 of these from Wicks at a very
> > good price last year. I've been using them everywhere.
> > (All my floors are removable)
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
> > --- Robert Moser <moserr@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Robert Moser"
> > > <moserr@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > > How should one countersink the rivet holes that
> > > attach the k1100-08 platenuts for the inspection
> > > covers to the bottom wing skins?
> > >
> > > The outboard skin is .025" so machine countersinking
> > > is not a great option, but dimpling doesn't leave
> > > the platenut flush with the skin. I know the
> > > platenuts only hold the access cover on, but still,
> > > I was wondering what others have done.....
> > >
> > > Things that make you go hmmmmmm!
> > >
> > > Bob Moser
> > > East Bethel, MN
> > > RV-8 Wings
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Click on the
> > > this
> > > generous
> > > _->
> > > Contributions
> > > any other
> > > Forums.
> > >
> > > latest messages.
> > > List members.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > > _->
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Gear legs -- titanium? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
That's what they use on the Sonex.
Cheers!! -------Henry
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Gear legs -- titanium? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Chris wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
>
> I have been reading about titanium gear legs in the archives. Like lots
> of things there was mostly disinformation so I thought I would post
> what I know and see what others thought. First stiffness. Titanium is
> not as stiff as steel, steel is almost twice as stiff as titanium. Then
> their is strength. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but as I
> recall, the titanium alloy that comes to mind for this application is
> called 6-4 with 6% aluminum and 4% vanadium and most of the remainder
> titanium. This alloy is pretty close to the strength of 4140 steel but
> not quite as strong. Ok then there is weight. Steel is .283 lb/in
> 3
> (or around there depending on alloy) and 6-4 titanium is .160 lb/in
> 3.
> Now that we have the stats lets talk about what we want to accomplish
> with titanium gear legs.
>
> I think it is common knowledge that the gear legs are limiting factor in
> gross take off weight of an RV.
----------------------------
Hmm, where do you get that fact from? In all the years of flying an RV
I have never heard that. Just what do you plan on carrying in your RV?
I know a lot of RV-6 that have 1800+ lbs as gross weight with standerd
gear.
Jerry
>
> --
> Chris Woodhouse
>
Message 38
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
Off topic- Do Not Archive
Is there someone on the list who lives on the east coast that would be
interested in trading "State" quarters. I'm in the process of putting
together a set of the state quarters for each of my grandkids and have a
problem getting the "P" quarters here in Calif. Not looking for uncirculated
only examples and will trade "D" coins for "P". Contact off list please.
I'll mail you mine if you'll mail me yours, just tell me what ones you need.
KABONG
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: The Call I Never Wanted to Get... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Vern Darley,II wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Vern Darley,II" <vern@mindspring.com>
>
> The Call I Never Wanted to Get...
> By Vern Darley (vern@mindspring.com)
>
Thanks for that very sobering report Vern. I saw that accident in the preliminary
reports and wondered about the details. SO GLAD your friend is ok. I've been upside
down in an airplane on the ground and can vouch that it is not fun.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Music Connection |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RW" <chiefs@teleport.com>
Vince,
I don't think I would use the speaker output to feed the intercom. As I
understand it, the speakers will overpower the intercom. My plan is to
pickup audio from the headset jack. I will get a 3 ring plug and make an
adapter to a two ring plug.
The 3-ring has a left, right and common. The 2 ring has audio and common.
I will wire left & right to audio on the two ring and the common to common.
Heh, heh, I may not get to it for a while. Let me know how it works.
Dick White
RV-8 N94DW
Old Crow
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Screws |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel@rconnect.com>
Bob..
What you described is exactly what I did. The bows drilled out and tapped
well for the screws. Then I oversized all the plexiglas screw holes to
5/16" ( I think that is the diameter as I recall). Next I cut a bushing out
of leftover brake line to insert in the hole with the thickness of the
busing being slightly (.010 about) greater or equal to the plexi so no
pressure is applied directly around the hole. I also camphfored the top
plexiglas holes since the overlaying aluminum was dimpled and would fit into
this hole. The screw then put pressure on the bushing rather than the
plexi. All screws were dipped in proseal before insertion because
threadlockers cause crazing and Proseal was already on hand. There are NO
poprivets through plexiglas including the forward top bow. Does it work? So
far, yes, but I haven't flown yet.
Dick DeCramer
RV6 Slider
Baffles & FAB
Northfield, MN
----- Original Message -----
From: <FlashandCo@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy Screws
> --> RV-List message posted by: FlashandCo@aol.com
>
> Listers,
>
> From those who have gone before, is there much difficulty in using the #6
screws into tapped holes everywhere on the RV6 sliding canopy? I like the
looks of screws along the canopy front bow and backbone, but wonder if
screws can be used along the 1/2 dia. rear canopy bow. Also, Van's talks
about drilling the plexi to 1/8 inch for the #6 screw, but an RVAtor article
by Charles Wagner (Aug 97) discusses opening these suckers to 5/16 inch due
to plexi expansion/contraction. Any good middle ground?
>
> Thanks for the assist.
>
> Bob Gordon
> Dover DE
>
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Screws |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel@rconnect.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: <FlashandCo@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy Screws
> --> RV-List message posted by: FlashandCo@aol.com
>
> Listers,
>
> From those who have gone before, is there much difficulty in using the #6
screws into tapped holes everywhere on the RV6 sliding canopy? I like the
looks of screws along the canopy front bow and backbone, but wonder if
screws can be used along the 1/2 dia. rear canopy bow. Also, Van's talks
about drilling the plexi to 1/8 inch for the #6 screw, but an RVAtor article
by Charles Wagner (Aug 97) discusses opening these suckers to 5/16 inch due
to plexi expansion/contraction. Any good middle ground?
>
> Thanks for the assist.
>
> Bob Gordon
> Dover DE
>
>
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
Dave, hard to tell, unfortunately. Home base is 7650 msl. One of these days
I will get to leave my test area, go to near sea level, and see. I have the
vision Microsystems MAP.
John, RV8, 35 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave von Linsowe
Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
John,
How close is your M.P. gage on the ground? I found mine to be almost an
inch off.
Dave
RV-6
The need for speed-->
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
> Some of the Mooneys had an air filter bypass arrangement that could be
> operated in flight. I have used this in the past, and pulling the bypass
on
> would result in an increase of manifold pressure of about 1 1/2 inches. I
> don't remember exactly which models had it.
>
> My RV8 with K&N filter (canister style, 3x bigger than Van's) shows 22 to
> 22.5 inches at 8000 ft. (depends on barometric pressure that day).
>
> John
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Re: Gear legs -- titanium? === Some facts. |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 02:11 AM 1/3/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
>
>I have been reading about titanium gear legs in the archives. Like lots
>of things there was mostly disinformation
There certainly is much wrong information floating around about
titanium. I think we just like the sound of it. Like, "mine is titanium
and carbon fiber".
Steel is not much stronger than aluminum. This is true! I was told by a
support person at Van's that steel is "hundreds of times stronger than
aluminum." Not so. Steel is only about ten times stronger than
aluminum. For example, several exotic alloys of steel have tensile
strengths exceeding 300,000 pounds per square inch while 3003 aluminum is
well under 30,000 psi. On the other hand, there are steel alloys with
tensile strengths below 50,000 psi while 7188-T6 runs about 88,000
psi. You can't just refer to aluminum, you have to speak of the particular
alloy. Same goes for steel and titanium.
Where titanium really shines :-) is at high temperatures. So it is good
stuff for SR-71 skins, exhaust valves, turbine blades and the like. Hardly
ideal for tie down stakes or even gear legs.
There is more. Tensile strength is not the only measure of merit for
materials tho it is probably most pertinent here. The other big question
is what are the loads on the gear legs?? Is the big issue gross weight or
hard landing survivability?
I should look but I'll guess that there are references on the internet that
can add to this or correct it.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Re: 2003 Calendar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@direcpc.com>
Actually the 7 has the 8's wings, the 8's horz stab and elevators, the
8's vertical stab and now the 9's rudder and the 9's fuselage modified
to accept the 8 wings.
Gary
Bill VonDane wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <n8wv@vondane.com>
>
>Actually, the -7 has the -8's tail and wings!
>
>-Bill
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: 2003 Calendar
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
>
>
>
>
>>Perhaps it is because it has the big 7 tail.
>>
>>Ross Schlotthauer
>>RV7
>>
>>
>>
>Geeez, you "7" guys try to take credit for all the parts of other airplanes.
>Doesn't the "7" have the "9" tail. ;-)
>
>do not archive
>
>S. Todd Bartrim
>Turbo 13B rotary powered
>RX-9endurance (FWF)
>C-FSTB (reserved)
>http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
>
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
> -Albert Einstein
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
>
>
><META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
>RE: RV-List: 2003 Calendar
>
>
>Perhaps it is because it has the big 7 tail.
>
>
>Ross Schlotthauer
>
>RV7
>
>
>Geeez, you 7 guys try to take credit for all the parts of other airplanes.
>Doesn't the 7 have the 9 tail. ;-)
>
>
>do not archive
>
>
>S. Todd Bartrim
>
>Turbo 13B rotary powered
>
>RX-9endurance (FWF)
>
>C-FSTB (reserved)
>
><A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm"
>TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
>
>
> Imagination is more important than knowledge
>
> -Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Any RV Projects close to the OAK airport? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Rigby" <dave@coltnet.net>
Listers;
Are there any RV projects close to the OAK airport? Lately I have had some
free time at the airport and would like to help with a project.
Thanks
Dave
dave@coltnet.net
Please reply off the list.
DNA: Do not archive
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
John,
If you know the field elevation and altimeter setting you can
calculate the local ambient pressure. Go to:
http://www.pilotfriend.com/density%20altitude%20calc.htm
It is designed to calculate density altitude, so it refuses to work
unless you also put in a temperature and dew point, but you can just
put in any old garbage temp and dew point. If you MP gauge is
accurate it should read the same as the calculated ambient pressure
if the engine is stopped.
Kevin
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
>Dave, hard to tell, unfortunately. Home base is 7650 msl. One of these days
>I will get to leave my test area, go to near sea level, and see. I have the
>vision Microsystems MAP.
>
>John, RV8, 35 hours
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave von Linsowe
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
>
>John,
>
>How close is your M.P. gage on the ground? I found mine to be almost an
>inch off.
>
>Dave
>RV-6
>The need for speed-->
>
Message 48
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Norman...
I used the squeezer....carefully, so don't know about the gun. Mine came out
very well, just did them last summer. BTW, betcha we have more rain in Oregon
than you do in BC...
Best,
Jerry Cochran
In a message dated 1/2/03 12:04:21 AM, rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
<< From: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy Frame Side Skins
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
I am about to permanently rivet the canopy frame side skins to the canopy
frame.
I must do this with the plexi in place because the plexi won't slide into the
slot after without major squeezing of the plexi. I definately don't want to
do that so my question is - can the plexi handle the vibrations from the rivet
gun in such close proximity? Or should I use the squeezer? (I'd rather not,
the
gun does more consistantly nicer, flusher rivets than the squeezer on skins)
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Do not archive questions
>>
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Engines--not agian |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
Just to mention to folks that there is talk again of a 200-235 horsepower
Rotax aluminum aviation V6. I cannot provide a source of this rumor and I
suppose that is what it is nor will I do the research to locate the article.
I saw some info on it and that is that for better or worse. The engine is
based off of their EPA mandated high performance 4-stroke marine engines. Do
Not Archive. JR
Message 50
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Canopy Screws |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel@rconnect.com>
In added response to Bob Gordon.
I Forgot to add in my prior post that I placed a 1/2" wide piece of about .025
aluminum between the canopy bows and the plexiglass so the bushings as described
in my earlier response had a flat surface to bear upon. The plexi is then
trapped between two flat surfaces with a bushing through an oversize hole with
a dimpled upper surface and a flush screw. Bulging of the aluminum is at a minimum
and I used Proseal in the one area that did bulge which hid it nicely with
professional appearance. This did add about 20 hours of extra work but I
would do it again as I don't like pop rivets or screws countersunk in raw plexiglass.
I will be off the internet for six weeks so I cannot answer questions
on this since I will be escaping winter in Arizona but this and my prior post
should cover this.
Dick DeCramer
Northfield, MN
RV6 Slide
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: 2003 Calendar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
OH BOY, OH BOY, A FOOD FIGHT.
From Van's very own on-line spec. sheet.
RV-7 Span: 25' Wing Sq. ft: 121 Seats: Side by Side
RV-8 24' 116
Tandum
IF they are the "same" they are NOT interchangeable and therefore NOT the
same.
Do Not Archive. KABONG 8
)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@direcpc.com>
>
> Actually the 7 has the 8's wings, the 8's horz stab and elevators, the
> 8's vertical stab and now the 9's rudder and the 9's fuselage modified
> to accept the 8 wings.
>
> Gary
:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <n8wv@vondane.com>
> >
> >Actually, the -7 has the -8's tail and wings!
> >
> >-Bill
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Gear legs -- titanium? === Some facts. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Where titanium really shines :-) is at high temperatures.
Folks, I just gotta tell ya, it REALLY shines at 98.6 degrees for me!
Just had a hunk screwed to 3 verts in my neck two days ago by a
great neurosurgeon and I got my left arm back! Woohoo!!!!!
Feelin' good at the PossumWorks in TN
Mark - do not archive -
>
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: 2003 Calendar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer@mts.net>
I haven't seen the -7 and -8 wings up close up and disassembled so I can't
say for sure if there are differences. But according to Van's dimensions the
math actually shows them to be the same size.
The span is different between the -8 and the -7 because the -7 fuselage is
about a foot wider at the main spar attach point. The wings bolt to the side
of the fuselage.
Wing area is calculated as span times chord. The piece of fuselage in
between the wings is counted in the total. The "standard" RV chord is 4.84
feet. So,
RV-7: 4.84' x 25' = 121 sq.ft. = Van's spec.
RV-8: 4.84' x 24' = 116 sq.ft. = Van's spec.
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: 2003 Calendar
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
>
> OH BOY, OH BOY, A FOOD FIGHT.
>
> From Van's very own on-line spec. sheet.
> RV-7 Span: 25' Wing Sq. ft: 121 Seats: Side by Side
> RV-8 24' 116
> Tandum
>
> IF they are the "same" they are NOT interchangeable and therefore NOT the
> same.
> Do Not Archive. KABONG 8
> )
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@direcpc.com>
> >
> > Actually the 7 has the 8's wings, the 8's horz stab and elevators, the
> > 8's vertical stab and now the 9's rudder and the 9's fuselage modified
> > to accept the 8 wings.
> >
> > Gary
> :
> >
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <n8wv@vondane.com>
> > >
> > >Actually, the -7 has the -8's tail and wings!
> > >
> > >-Bill
>
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Airport Problems] |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bernie_C@erols.com
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: RV-List: Airport Problems
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman@intermapsystems.com>
As an update:
The EAA and the FAA came to my rescue and told the airport authority
that
they can't keep us from working on our planes. However, the easy
way for me
to fight this was to not fight. At this point it would take a
lawyer and a
law suit to fight, and it was easier to play their F&*(@#@ game.
I had to get the airport authority and the FBO put on my insurance
(thanks
to JT this was not a huge issue!), and I had to fill out about 20
pages of
forms to get a "temporary" maintenance permit (which I now proudly
display!). It was for 30 days only. So, if I ever take off a flap
or
propeller, they could come and evict me.
The issue is that I'm in the brand new hangars (big and beautiful)
and I got
it when they were built. They would rather put in some big twins and
charge
more money. They don't give a crap what is going on in other parts
of the
airport.
The good news... there are so many people who hate these guys (the
FBO guys)
that nobody buys gas here. We all go somewhere else to buy gas in an
effort
to put this guy out of business. The ground swell from this issue
is pretty
amazing.
Jim
Tampa
Vandenberg... avoid it when you go to Sun-n-Fun, even though its
only 17
miles away!!!
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: The Call I Never Wanted to Get... |
--> RV-List message posted by: KAKlewin@aol.com
Vern,
A very somber story indeed, but at least everyone is ok. Im sure it makes everyone
feel better when it wasn't pilot error for once.
In reading Tim Lewis's report and yours both seem to have a common theme of unremovable
carb ice or impact snow/ice. And these are not the only stories I
have read. There are many reasons that I use this list and this is one of the
many benefits. Im getting ready to install my engine and as a result I plan
on using a full robbins muff on the left side to provide carb heat to my engine
(Aerosport O-360). I may even go so far as to install both systems, running
the hose from the larger robbins muff to the intake of the smaller carb heat
muff to provide "HOT" air to the carb. It seems that the smaller carb heat muff
is inadequate in some circumstances. Anyone have any better ideas... I may
also change my flying habbits to include application of carb heat more frequently
and earlier prior to landing.
As far as the crash worthiness of the RV's...makes me feel great about the design
and survivability of the aircraft, but again from the few RV accidents I have
heard of (and the many accidents I studied in my Aircraft Accident Classes)
I think I might make it a point of utilizing a helmet, dispite its occasional
lower comfort level, to keep my noggen intact if needed. There is a lot we can
all learn from the unfortunate events of others. Please pass my sympathy to
your friend on the loss of his RV...thankfully he walked away...thats the most
important!!
Kurt in OKC
Finishing RV6A (Super Carb Heat Muffs!!!)
Message 56
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| Subject: | RV project in OAK, CA |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Rigby" <dave@coltnet.net>
Listers;
Are there any RV projects near the OAK Airport? I occasionally have some
extra time, and would like to help with a project. Thanks
Dave
Dave@coltnet.net
DNA Do Not Archive
Please respond off the List. Thanks
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