---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/05/03: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:08 AM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? === Some facts. (Randy Simpson) 2. 05:21 AM - PC-625 Metal Case (WCruiser1@aol.com) 3. 05:57 AM - Re: Multi-pin wire connectors (WernerTR) 4. 06:31 AM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs (Tracy Crook) 5. 07:39 AM - Re: PC-625 Metal Case (Gary Zilik) 6. 08:15 AM - Mic & Phone Jack Insulators (Bill Irvine) 7. 08:22 AM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs ( repost for archiving ) (Charlie and Tupper England) 8. 08:51 AM - Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets (John Huft) 9. 09:00 AM - Re: Skybolt Cowling Fasteners vs Hinge (Ned Bowers) 10. 09:31 AM - Re: Multi-pin wire connectors (Charles Kuss) 11. 09:39 AM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs ( repost for archiving ) (Jerry Springer) 12. 11:05 AM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs (HCRV6@aol.com) 13. 12:14 PM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs ( repost for archiving ) (Ed Holyoke) 14. 01:07 PM - Control cable size (Jeff Point) 15. 01:21 PM - RV6 tailwheel spring (jgmason) 16. 01:31 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (Norman) 17. 01:39 PM - RE : vinyl graphics (Martin Hone) 18. 01:54 PM - Re: RV6 tailwheel spring (Kyle Boatright) 19. 02:04 PM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs (Ed Holyoke) 20. 02:11 PM - Re: Control cable size (N67BT@aol.com) 21. 02:22 PM - KMA-20 Info needed (Ski2001a@aol.com) 22. 02:33 PM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs (Kyle Boatright) 23. 02:59 PM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs (Stein Bruch) 24. 03:03 PM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs (Jim Oke) 25. 04:45 PM - Re: 6 Engine mount and gear legs (Randy Lervold) 26. 05:25 PM - Electric Seat Makers (Norman) 27. 06:13 PM - Re: Electric Seat Makers (Larry Bowen) 28. 06:55 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (JRWillJR@aol.com) 29. 07:05 PM - Re: RV6 tailwheel spring (Dave Bristol) 30. 07:43 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (Jerry Springer) 31. 09:47 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (Chris) 32. 10:27 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (Jerry Springer) 33. 11:22 PM - Re: Gear legs -- titanium? (Stein Bruch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:30 AM PST US From: Randy Simpson Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium? === Some facts. --> RV-List message posted by: Randy Simpson Chris, Hal, and list, I work with titanium almost every day. For 26 years, I worked in a titanium plant (retired from that job now). The last 5 or so years I worked there, I also made titanium "Ti-downs" for airplanes (my own side business)...Hundreds of RV-Listers have them in their planes now. I make a living now making the Ti-downs. I couldn't disagree more with Hal's statement "Hardly ideal for tie down stakes or even gear legs". I believe titanium is the PERFECT material for tie down stakes and gear legs. I won't go into a sales pitch now about all the positive features of the titanium Ti-downs, just talk about my ti gearlegs. I fabricated some ti gear legs for my Carrera Ultralight a couple of years ago, and the result was better than I could have imagined. The original gear legs were made out of chromemoly steel tubes, with steel axles attached to the legs. It seemed like they would bend if I would sneeze while sitting in the cockpit (ok, not quite that easily). The ti gearlegs are virtually indestructable.... I made my titanium gearlegs made from billet 6/4 alloy ti. They weigh .07 lbs more than the steel tube legs they replaced, but I made them 3 inches longer than the stock size. The solid ti gearlegs flex more than the chromemoly legs they replaced, giving me a smoooooth ride over the roughest terrain. Every time I go flying, I marvel at the cushy ride while still on the ground. Almost like floating along while taxiing...Here's a picture of the finished gearlegs... http://www.airtimemfg.com/gearfix/onBeach.jpg The flex of the titanium legs reduce the peak shock loads on the rest of the airframe, which has to be a good thing. Since the ti gearlegs act like a spring and are un-damped, there is a little shimmy at some speeds, but not bothersome at all in my Carrera. I could probably go on and on about how much better the ti gearlegs are than the steel ones they replaced, but I think you already know how much I like them...believe me, titanium doesn't have an exotic reputation just because of it's name, like Hal hinted... I remember reading a message a couple of years ago on this RV-List about a Lister that put ti gearlegs on an RV, and had to take them back off because of too much shimmy in the wheels. I don't know what size ti gear legs would work best on an RV, but I imagine the ones he used were not an ideal size for his RV *shrugs* Sincerely, Randy Simpson titanium lover titanium fabricator Airtime Mfg. http://www.airtimemfg.com -back to lurk mode... At 05:14 PM 1/3/03 -0800, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes > >At 02:11 AM 1/3/2003 -0600, you wrote: >>--> RV-List message posted by: Chris >> >>I have been reading about titanium gear legs in the archives. Like lots >>of things there was mostly disinformation > >There certainly is much wrong information floating around about >titanium. I think we just like the sound of it. Like, "mine is titanium >and carbon fiber". > ------snipped some verbiage about titanium----------- > >Where titanium really shines :-) is at high temperatures. So it is good >stuff for SR-71 skins, exhaust valves, turbine blades and the like. Hardly >ideal for tie down stakes or even gear legs. > >There is more. Tensile strength is not the only measure of merit for >materials tho it is probably most pertinent here. The other big question >is what are the loads on the gear legs?? Is the big issue gross weight or >hard landing survivability? > >I should look but I'll guess that there are references on the internet that >can add to this or correct it. > >K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne >RV6-a N7HK flying! >PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:42 AM PST US From: WCruiser1@aol.com Subject: RV-List: PC-625 Metal Case --> RV-List message posted by: WCruiser1@aol.com I just received my Odyssey PC 625 battery which has a steel wrapper around the outside of the plastic case. Are RV builders mounting the battery in this steel couter case or is the steel case removed to save weight ? Has anyone had a problem in using the battery without the metal outer case, cracking or leaks ? Gary Gembala RV8A Firewall Forward ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:00 AM PST US From: "WernerTR" Subject: Re: RV-List: Multi-pin wire connectors --> RV-List message posted by: "WernerTR" My 2002 paper catalog page#223 shows it, the Radio Shack in San Diego,CA stocks the female and they promise to find the male if we want it. These conector is similar to PS2 computer conector, I asked to an eletronic shop to do the task for me, if I have to by myself Id use the normal DIN R/S PN#274-006 jack and PN#274-003 plug or go to www.digikey.com "individual page" #197 and buy PN# 275-1002-nd plug and PN#275-1006-nd jack, Singatronic brand, but these is just a sugestion I didnt went these route. Werner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Kuss" Subject: Re: RV-List: Multi-pin wire connectors > --> RV-List message posted by: Charles Kuss > > Werner, > I just did a search on Radio Shack's online catalog > for the 2 part numbers you supplied. No joy on either > one. Are you sure it was Radio Shack? Is there a typo > on the connector numbers? > Charlie Kuss > > --- WernerTR wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "WernerTR" > > > > > > I used Radio Shack PN#276-1474 Male and PN#276-1475 > > Female, 6 pin miniDIN > > conector protected with heat shirink tubing. Worked > > great on my Avid Flyer > > and now Im using on RV-6A. > > Werner Spenner > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Norman" > > To: > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Multi-pin wire connectors > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" > > > > > > > > > If we could find out who makes the connectors > > for the RC airplane > > > business, we might be on to what Steve and I have > > been asking about, which > > > is a plug for 6 or so conductors that could be > > used inside the control > > > sticks (and as a trim wiring disconnect). I have > > looked around, and I > > know > > > that they are not Deans, they are smaller than > > Deans by 50%. > > > > > > > > I KNOW I have seen these on someone's RV site, > > but I was not smart > > enough > > > to realize how much trouble I would have finding > > them later on...The guy > > > said he had found them at a supplier to the RC > > industry and that they were > > a > > > special made item. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:26 AM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs > --> RV-List message posted by: Abwaldal@aol.com > > Hi Ed > You are correct in your assumption. Anyway that's what I did with out > asking anybody as there is no other way to solve the problem. As with a lot > of these things you're on your own. > Good luck, I used a carbide 1/4" router bit and gouged it out until I > had 1/4' clearance around it. > Art B. Waldal > Rv-6 just drilled my gear legs. alot of slow drilling As Ed & Art said, you are on your own for a lot of details. For the benefit of newer list members/ builders, let me say that I wish someone had told me that the instructions should be regarded as a "Book of Hints" rather than a 'bible'. I wasted too many hours searching the plans for 'the right way to do it' before coming to this conclusion. Happy Building. Tracy Crook > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:38 AM PST US From: Gary Zilik Subject: Re: RV-List: PC-625 Metal Case --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik My original 680 came with the metal case and this is how I installed it. When one cell went bad I replaced it with the non metal jacket version (cheaper). I used a chip chaser to cut the original out of its case (glued in using rtv) and the two batteries are the same. Gary WCruiser1@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: WCruiser1@aol.com > >I just received my Odyssey PC 625 battery which has a steel wrapper around >the outside of the plastic case. Are RV builders mounting the battery in >this steel couter case or is the steel case removed to save weight ? Has >anyone had a problem in using the battery without the metal outer case, >cracking or leaks ? > >Gary Gembala >RV8A Firewall Forward > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:39 AM PST US From: Bill Irvine Subject: RV-List: Mic & Phone Jack Insulators --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Irvine > Anybody know where I might obtain the insulators for > microphone and headset jacks? These are the special > fiber washers that insulate the microphone > & headset jacks from the panel. Go to Aeroelectric.com. Click on Parts and Materials from B&C. Half-way down on the page, under Connectors. 50 cents each. Bill ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:15 AM PST US From: Charlie and Tupper England Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs ( repost for archiving ) --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England Tracy Crook wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Abwaldal@aol.com >> >> Hi Ed >> You are correct in your assumption. Anyway that's what I did with out >>asking anybody as there is no other way to solve the problem. As with a > > lot > >>of these things you're on your own. >> Good luck, I used a carbide 1/4" router bit and gouged it out until > > I > >>had 1/4' clearance around it. >> Art B. Waldal >> Rv-6 just drilled my gear legs. alot of slow drilling > > > As Ed & Art said, you are on your own for a lot of details. For the benefit > of newer list members/ builders, let me say that I wish someone had told me > that the instructions should be regarded as a "Book of Hints" rather than a > 'bible'. I wasted too many hours searching the plans for 'the right way to > do it' before coming to this conclusion. Happy Building. > > Tracy Crook > > I'm reposting to archive both the 'how-to' and the comment from a very experienced builder (who's already built a -4) that Van's instructions supplied with QB kits are inadequate. Charlie ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:24 AM PST US From: "John Huft" Subject: RE: RV-List: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" Thanks, Kevin, good link. Looks like my map is reading about .2 low, close enough. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Subject: RE: RV-List: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton John, If you know the field elevation and altimeter setting you can calculate the local ambient pressure. Go to: http://www.pilotfriend.com/density%20altitude%20calc.htm It is designed to calculate density altitude, so it refuses to work unless you also put in a temperature and dew point, but you can just put in any old garbage temp and dew point. If you MP gauge is accurate it should read the same as the calculated ambient pressure if the engine is stopped. Kevin >--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > >Dave, hard to tell, unfortunately. Home base is 7650 msl. One of these days >I will get to leave my test area, go to near sea level, and see. I have the >vision Microsystems MAP. > >John, RV8, 35 hours > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave von Linsowe >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" > >John, > >How close is your M.P. gage on the ground? I found mine to be almost an >inch off. > >Dave >RV-6 >The need for speed--> > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:50 AM PST US From: "Ned Bowers" Subject: RV-List: Re: Skybolt Cowling Fasteners vs Hinge --> RV-List message posted by: "Ned Bowers" With the completion of a beautiful RV4 and RV8 using the Skybolt CLocs, I am very pleased with the looks and performance. Not only does the cowlings look great, I can remove and install a cowling (a thousand times) with ease. The installation was as easy as putting screws into a platenut. I fabricated structural ribs inside my cowling, however, Skybolt now has a simple, inexpensive layup material called Skybeam that creates internal structure to carry loads between the fasteners. It is part of their new kits and is otherwise, very inexpensive and easy to install. I spoke with both Sam Mazzotta, their resident IA, and Pete Lorenzo, A&P (800-223-1963). They are a wealth of help and information. What ever they could not answer, Sam James (manufacturer of the cowlings) could (863-675-4493). One the down side, I paid almost $500 for my kit. Pete just informed me that they are promotting the new Skybeam with fastener kits for 30% off from now through Sun-N-Fun. They even have great instructions with a CD packed full of pictures that would have helped my installation. Ned Bowers ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:21 AM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Multi-pin wire connectors --> RV-List message posted by: Charles Kuss Werner Thanks for the digi Key numbers. I was able to find them in their catalog. Charlie --- WernerTR wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "WernerTR" > > > My 2002 paper catalog page#223 shows it, the Radio > Shack in San Diego,CA > stocks the female and they promise to find the male > if we want it. These > conector is similar to PS2 computer conector, I > asked to an eletronic shop > to do the task for me, if I have to by myself Id use > the normal DIN R/S > PN#274-006 jack and PN#274-003 plug or go to > www.digikey.com "individual > page" #197 and buy PN# 275-1002-nd plug and > PN#275-1006-nd jack, Singatronic > brand, but these is just a sugestion I didnt went > these route. > Werner > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Kuss" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Multi-pin wire connectors > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Charles Kuss > > > > > Werner, > > I just did a search on Radio Shack's online > catalog > > for the 2 part numbers you supplied. No joy on > either > > one. Are you sure it was Radio Shack? Is there a > typo > > on the connector numbers? > > Charlie Kuss > > > > --- WernerTR wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "WernerTR" > > > > > > > > > I used Radio Shack PN#276-1474 Male and > PN#276-1475 > > > Female, 6 pin miniDIN > > > conector protected with heat shirink tubing. > Worked > > > great on my Avid Flyer > > > and now Im using on RV-6A. > > > Werner Spenner > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Norman" > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Multi-pin wire connectors > > > > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" > > > > > > > > > > > > If we could find out who makes the > connectors > > > for the RC airplane > > > > business, we might be on to what Steve and I > have > > > been asking about, which > > > > is a plug for 6 or so conductors that could be > > > used inside the control > > > > sticks (and as a trim wiring disconnect). I > have > > > looked around, and I > > > know > > > > that they are not Deans, they are smaller than > > > Deans by 50%. > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW I have seen these on someone's RV > site, > > > but I was not smart > > > enough > > > > to realize how much trouble I would have > finding > > > them later on...The guy > > > > said he had found them at a supplier to the RC > > > industry and that they were > > > a > > > > special made item. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > > any other > > > Forums. > > > > > > latest messages. > > > List members. > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:05 AM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs ( repost for archiving ) --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Charlie and Tupper England wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England > > Tracy Crook wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: >>Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs >> >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Abwaldal@aol.com >>> >>>Hi Ed >>> You are correct in your assumption. Anyway that's what I did with out >>>asking anybody as there is no other way to solve the problem. As with a >> >>lot >> >> >>>of these things you're on your own. >>> Good luck, I used a carbide 1/4" router bit and gouged it out until >> >>I >> >> >>>had 1/4' clearance around it. >>> Art B. Waldal >>> Rv-6 just drilled my gear legs. alot of slow drilling >> >> >>As Ed & Art said, you are on your own for a lot of details. For the benefit >>of newer list members/ builders, let me say that I wish someone had told me >>that the instructions should be regarded as a "Book of Hints" rather than a >>'bible'. I wasted too many hours searching the plans for 'the right way to >>do it' before coming to this conclusion. Happy Building. >> >>Tracy Crook >> >> > > I'm reposting to archive both the 'how-to' and the comment from a very > experienced builder (who's already built a -4) that Van's instructions supplied > with QB kits are inadequate. > > Charlie > And I well put this in the archive also then. Many of us find them plenty adequate. I would imagine that it is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe Van should send someone to hold our little hands while building. Jerry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:20 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com In a message dated 1/4/03 10:17:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, bicyclop@pacbell.net writes: << My guess is that the flange gets wallowed out as necessary and the upper gear leg fairing will cover it all up. >> That's what I did since it was pretty clear it was not going to fit otherwise. Hope I guessed correctly. Do Not Archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, FW fwd (finally) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:39 PM PST US From: Ed Holyoke Subject: RE: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs ( repost for archiving ) --> RV-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke Thanks for the advice, guys. Let's try not to get into a pissing match over the plans and instructions, though. I'm just glad that there are people to ask who have gone before. Ed (sometimes I need some hand-holding) Holyoke Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:36 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs ( repost for archiving ) > > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > Charlie and Tupper England wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England > > > > > Tracy Crook wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" > >> > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: > >>To: > >>Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Abwaldal@aol.com > >>> > >>>Hi Ed > >>> You are correct in your assumption. Anyway that's what I did with out > >>>asking anybody as there is no other way to solve the problem. As with a > >> > >>lot > >> > >> > >>>of these things you're on your own. > >>> Good luck, I used a carbide 1/4" router bit and gouged it out > until > >> > >>I > >> > >> > >>>had 1/4' clearance around it. > >>> Art B. Waldal > >>> Rv-6 just drilled my gear legs. alot of slow drilling > >> > >> > >>As Ed & Art said, you are on your own for a lot of details. For the > benefit > >>of newer list members/ builders, let me say that I wish someone had told > me > >>that the instructions should be regarded as a "Book of Hints" rather > than a > >>'bible'. I wasted too many hours searching the plans for 'the right way > to > >>do it' before coming to this conclusion. Happy Building. > >> > >>Tracy Crook > >> > >> > > > > I'm reposting to archive both the 'how-to' and the comment from a very > > experienced builder (who's already built a -4) that Van's instructions > supplied > > with QB kits are inadequate. > > > > Charlie > > > > And I well put this in the archive also then. Many of us find them > plenty adequate. I would imagine that it is in the eye of the beholder. > Maybe Van should send someone to hold our little hands while building. > Jerry > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:18 PM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: RV-List: Control cable size --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point If anyone has the Van's supplied vernier controls for prop or mixture cables handy, could you measure and tell me the diameter of the plastic knob? Thanks Jeff Point RV-6 finish kit, working on panel layout Milwaukee WI ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:08 PM PST US From: "jgmason" Subject: RV-List: RV6 tailwheel spring --> RV-List message posted by: "jgmason" Hi, My name is Gary Mason and I'm building a RV6 in Wyoming. My friend, Bob Skinner, said I should learn to post and ask questions on the list so here's a question: At what period of construction do you drill the hole in the tailwheel spring? It seems the easiest time would be while the fuselage is upside down in the jig. Any tips to make sure that, when I'm done, the tailwheel will be straight up and down. Thanks, Gary ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:41 PM PST US From: "Norman" Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium? --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" > So how do we mount the new larger diameter gear to the plane. Well if > the leg is larger, but we turn down the end that goes in the mount on > the plane so it fits in the same hole the steel leg did, it would seem > that we have just defeated our purpose. So new mounts are in order, > which makes this modification a whole lot more difficult, unless some > one knows some thing I don't or can see some other way to mate the new > larger leg to the original gear mount. Chris, I like having you around. New ideas are healthy to at least talk about. Why not forget about mounts and make both main gear legs out of the same piece like the Murphy SR-3500? Have the piece that spans across the middle formed to flair into the underbelly. Make the legs themselves the same shape as the current fiberglass leg fairings with a hole for the brake fluid. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:21 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: RE : vinyl graphics From: "Martin Hone" --> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" G'day Mark, In my previous life (pre RV) I used vinyl graphics to make roundels on the top and bottom of my fabric-covered aircraft. These were first applied in 1993, and the aircraft first flew in Feb 1994. Every time I wash the craft, I check on the condition of the graphics, as they were made out of eleven separate pieces in three different colors, and I am continually amazed as to their longevity. It has been ten years now, and although the aircraft is hangared, it also regularly attends fly-ins with overnight stays outside, and our sun is notoriously harsh. The vinyl was only guaranteed for seven years, but it looks like it will stay there for another ten years. Cheers Martin in Oz ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:11 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6 tailwheel spring --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" Upside down in the jig is the correct time to drill the tailwheel spring. It may be best to drill a hole through the top (as viewed in the jig) of the weldment before you insert the spring. I'll call this the 12 o'clock hole. That way, once you get the spring lined up, you won't need to worry about vibration moving it as you drill through the weldment. Don't drill the hole through the other side of the weldment (the 6 o'clock hole) until assembly. This hole will be a continuation of the hole through the entire assembly. To make sure the tailwheel is straight up and down, attach the tailwheel assembly to the spring and slide the spring/wheel into the mounting bracket. Rotate the assembly until the tailwheel is vertical, then use a level or plumb bob to check level. Once everything is set, clamp the spring/wheel assembly to something you brought over from a dark corner of the shop and drill the hole all the way through the assembly. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "jgmason" Subject: RV-List: RV6 tailwheel spring > --> RV-List message posted by: "jgmason" > > Hi, > > My name is Gary Mason and I'm building a RV6 in Wyoming. My friend, Bob Skinner, said I should learn to post and ask questions on the list so here's a question: At what period of construction do you drill the hole in the tailwheel spring? It seems the easiest time would be while the fuselage is upside down in the jig. Any tips to make sure that, when I'm done, the tailwheel will be straight up and down. > > Thanks, > > Gary > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:59 PM PST US From: Ed Holyoke Subject: RE: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs --> RV-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke OK, here's the next question. Now that I wallowed out enough to get the engine mount onto the firewall, it doesn't sit flat. I can rock the upper left and lower right corners of the mount about an eighth of an inch. If I just cinch it on down, it will put some preload on the engine mount. Should I shim it instead? It looks like the two lower center bolt points will have to be shimmed in any case. Is that enough misalignment to affect the thrustline and the way the plane flies? If so, what's a good way to determine which direction to shim the mount? Will the misalignment affect the gear geometry adversely? Anybody else had a problem like this? Ed Holyoke 6QB ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:42 PM PST US From: N67BT@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Control cable size --> RV-List message posted by: N67BT@aol.com Jeff, The knobs are different for the prop and mixture controls. The prop control knob has lateral indentations for grip and the mixture has lateral ridges. The prop control knob is 1 11/32" in diameter. The mixture control knob's primary diameter is 1 9/32". When the ridges are included the diameter is 1 13/32". > If anyone has the Van's supplied vernier controls for prop or mixture > cables handy, could you measure and tell me the diameter of the plastic > knob? Bob Trumpfheller RV7A QB Western Colorado ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:19 PM PST US From: Ski2001a@aol.com Subject: RV-List: KMA-20 Info needed --> RV-List message posted by: Ski2001a@aol.com List, I have a used KMA-20 Audio panel that I am installing into my RV-8 and need a copy of the installation and operating manual. Anyone out there have one they can make a copy and send me. I will certainly cover the cost. Tom Clark -8 Fastback Tom.clark@utcfuelcells.com ski2001a@aol.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:19 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" Ed, Scott McDaniels of Van's posted something in '99 on this subject. He wrote that if hand pressure will force the mount to a flush condition, then go ahead and bolt it on, using the bolts to pull it down. If you need more info, that post is in the archives. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs > --> RV-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke > > > OK, here's the next question. Now that I wallowed out enough to get the > engine mount onto the firewall, it doesn't sit flat. I can rock the > upper left and lower right corners of the mount about an eighth of an > inch. If I just cinch it on down, it will put some preload on the engine > mount. Should I shim it instead? It looks like the two lower center bolt > points will have to be shimmed in any case. > > Is that enough misalignment to affect the thrustline and the way the > plane flies? If so, what's a good way to determine which direction to > shim the mount? > > Will the misalignment affect the gear geometry adversely? > > Anybody else had a problem like this? > > Ed Holyoke > 6QB > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:24 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hi Ed, Not uncommon at all. Shim away! Better to use shims the put "pre-loads" either on the firewall or the engine mount. Cheers, Stein -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke Subject: RE: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs --> RV-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke OK, here's the next question. Now that I wallowed out enough to get the engine mount onto the firewall, it doesn't sit flat. I can rock the upper left and lower right corners of the mount about an eighth of an inch. If I just cinch it on down, it will put some preload on the engine mount. Should I shim it instead? It looks like the two lower center bolt points will have to be shimmed in any case. Is that enough misalignment to affect the thrustline and the way the plane flies? If so, what's a good way to determine which direction to shim the mount? Will the misalignment affect the gear geometry adversely? Anybody else had a problem like this? Ed Holyoke 6QB ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:15 PM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke Ed; As a first suggestion, find a known flat surface to place your mount on and see if all the bolt pads touch the surface. If yes, then your firewall must not be a flat surface and some measurements, etc, should be done to see what part or parts are out of line. If no, then the mount is out of line, so try and figure out which bolt pad is the one that's off and add shim washers as needed to improve the fit so all the bolts tighten evenly. If the firewall is out of line, do the same thing. The only catch is that you doubtless used the firewall to determine some of the other key measurements in the fuselage (the slope of the F604 in a -6, for instance) and these should be rechecked to see if there are any significant differences that might matter in other ways. I suspect you will find the engine mount bolts are ample, even extra, length and there is room for several shim washers at any location (probably by intention). If the engine thrust line ends up OK, then any shimming done to get it there is a good thing. The gear legs on a -6 should be OK on this basis too - assuming the mount was jigged properly in the first place. I used a shim washer at the lower right corner of my mount due to a probable lineup error when mounting the firewall in the jig. Jim Oke RV-6A Winnipeg, MB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs > --> RV-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke > > > OK, here's the next question. Now that I wallowed out enough to get the > engine mount onto the firewall, it doesn't sit flat. I can rock the > upper left and lower right corners of the mount about an eighth of an > inch. If I just cinch it on down, it will put some preload on the engine > mount. Should I shim it instead? It looks like the two lower center bolt > points will have to be shimmed in any case. > > Is that enough misalignment to affect the thrustline and the way the > plane flies? If so, what's a good way to determine which direction to > shim the mount? > > Will the misalignment affect the gear geometry adversely? > > Anybody else had a problem like this? > > Ed Holyoke > 6QB > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:41 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" Several years ago when mounting my own engine I noticed some warping in my RV-8 mount. At that time Van's specifically recommended to "just bolt it down", that some warping from the welding process was normal. I wouldn't think using shims would hurt anything however other than obviously requiring obtaining different length bolts. Be sure and check your engine thrustline once the engine is mounted. Randy Lervold RV-8, 287.4 hrs www.rv-8.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > > Hi Ed, > > Not uncommon at all. Shim away! Better to use shims the put "pre-loads" > either on the firewall or the engine mount. > > Cheers, > Stein > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List:6 Engine mount and gear legs > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke > > > OK, here's the next question. Now that I wallowed out enough to get the > engine mount onto the firewall, it doesn't sit flat. I can rock the > upper left and lower right corners of the mount about an eighth of an > inch. If I just cinch it on down, it will put some preload on the engine > mount. Should I shim it instead? It looks like the two lower center bolt > points will have to be shimmed in any case. > > Is that enough misalignment to affect the thrustline and the way the > plane flies? If so, what's a good way to determine which direction to > shim the mount? > > Will the misalignment affect the gear geometry adversely? > > Anybody else had a problem like this? > > Ed Holyoke > 6QB > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:33 PM PST US From: "Norman" Subject: RV-List: Electric Seat Makers --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" Want heated seats right now for $30 USD? Check out http://www.smarthome.com/9290.html if you have a spare cig lighter socket to plug it in. They are seat covers that you can put right on top of your seats. I think some one could take a pair of these and some foam and have the wife sew some fabric to the sides and bottom making them into custom heated seats. What do others think? Canadian veiwers can get a product very simular at Canadian tire for $80. Go figure. These guys are making a simular product for $50 http://www.skingcompany.com/index.asp#Heating+Products goto heating products These guys appear to make the ones GM uses http://www.checkcorp.com/ use this page to find a dealer near you http://www.checkcorp.com/locate.htm you might want to consider using this list to select your seat maker. This company sells three different types. 1 - one setting - not recommended (by me) 2 - hi/low setting - these will do just fine 3 - dual temperature system - not sure exactly what this means. It could mean that the seat back could be made hotter than the seat bottom. This would be a great feature as I have found that if you have a bulky jacket on, you are insulated from the true toastyness that is possible. The seat bottoms are always toasty through a pair of jeans but sometimes more on your back would be better. I have also seen some European cars with fully variable reostats controlling the seat heating. This is what that motorcycle vest making company uses that was talked about here a week ago. He claimed the reostat is $80 of the price. I forget what my electric seats use for power but I think it was 4 amps per seat on low. The current flows through a carbon fiber mesh that in installed just under my leather seatcovers. Fabric seatcovers might deliver more bang for the buck. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:31 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Electric Seat Makers --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I just ordered a pair from here: http://www.rostra.com/oem-products.htm $129/seat. Haven't received them yet. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003: The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 8:22 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com; rocket-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Electric Seat Makers > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" > > Want heated seats right now for $30 USD? Check out > http://www.smarthome.com/9290.html > if you have a spare cig lighter socket to plug it in. They > are seat covers that you can put right on top of your seats. > I think some one could take a pair of these and some foam and > have the wife sew some fabric to the sides and bottom making > them into custom heated seats. What do others think? > > Canadian veiwers can get a product very simular at Canadian > tire for $80. Go figure. > > These guys are making a simular product for $50 > http://www.skingcompany.com/index.asp#Heating+Products > goto heating products > > These guys appear to make the ones GM uses > http://www.checkcorp.com/ use this page to find a dealer near > you http://www.checkcorp.com/locate.htm > you might want to consider using this list to select your > seat maker. This company sells three different types. 1 - one > setting - not recommended (by me) 2 - hi/low setting - these > will do just fine 3 - dual temperature system - not sure > exactly what this means. It could mean that the seat back > could be made hotter than the seat bottom. This would be a > great feature as I have found that if you have a bulky jacket > on, you are insulated from the true toastyness that is > possible. The seat bottoms are always toasty through a pair > of jeans but sometimes more on your back would be better. > > I have also seen some European cars with fully variable > reostats controlling the seat heating. This is what that > motorcycle vest making company uses that was talked about > here a week ago. He claimed the reostat is $80 of the price. > > I forget what my electric seats use for power but I think it > was 4 amps per seat on low. The current flows through a > carbon fiber mesh that in installed just under my leather > seatcovers. Fabric seatcovers might deliver more bang for the buck. > > Norman Hunger > RV6A Delta BC > > > ========== > Matronics Forums. > ========== > List members. > ========== > ========== > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:54 PM PST US From: JRWillJR@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium? --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com In a message dated 1/3/2003 5:20:57 PM Central Standard Time, jsflyrv@earthlink.net writes: > I think it is common knowledge that the gear legs are limiting factor in > > gross take off weight of an RV. I never heard that before, this is not a fact. I am pretty sure I was told by some company that makes the most popular kit plane that their gear design is stressed to Part 23 standards. I do not know if this popular kit maker has actually dropped an airplane or if only by calculation and extrapolation. In any case since several of these popular aircraft have impacted the ground at speeds more than desireable and the gear have generally remained intact I think their ruggedness is substantiated. I have seen dents on the wing bottoms of the Grumman 2 seaters despite their massive composite main gear, I don't think I have seen dents in the bottom of the wing on "our" popular homebuilts but I am sure someone has done it. I think the limiting factor is a 23/25 foot wingspan and the structural limits of the airframe for acro and penetration into turbulence. Could be wrong. Further, I believe the potential advantage of titanium or aluminum in landing gear legs is the damping properties of these materials compared to "springy" steel. If you have ever ridden an aluminum or titanium frame bicycle against a comparable steel frame bike (high end road bicycles or mountain) you will immediantly notice the somewhat "dead" feel of the titanium and aluminum frames compared to similar steel frames (based on my personel observation). Do Not Archive. JR ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:58 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6 tailwheel spring --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Hi Gary, Welcome to the list! You'll find that information on page 8-6, paragraph 7 of the "inadequate" RV6 builders manual. : > ) Dave RV6 (flying) SoCal jgmason wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "jgmason" > > Hi, > > My name is Gary Mason and I'm building a RV6 in Wyoming. My friend, Bob Skinner, said I should learn to post and ask questions on the list so here's a question: At what period of construction do you drill the hole in the tailwheel spring? It seems the easiest time would be while the fuselage is upside down in the jig. Any tips to make sure that, when I'm done, the tailwheel will be straight up and down. > > Thanks, > > Gary > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:46 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium? --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer JRWillJR@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/3/2003 5:20:57 PM Central Standard Time, > jsflyrv@earthlink.net writes: > > > >> I think it is common knowledge that the gear legs are limiting factor in >> >>>gross take off weight of an RV. >> > > I never heard that before, this is not a fact. I am pretty sure I was told by > some company that makes the most popular kit plane that their gear design is > stressed to Part 23 standards. JR, you made it look like I posted that message about the gear legs being the limiting factor. No sir, didn't do it wasn't I that said that. :) do not archive Jerry ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:19 PM PST US From: Chris Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium? --> RV-List message posted by: Chris Jerry Springer wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > JRWillJR@aol.com wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com > > > > In a message dated 1/3/2003 5:20:57 PM Central Standard Time, > > jsflyrv@earthlink.net writes: > > >> I think it is common knowledge that the gear legs are limiting factor in > >>>gross take off weight of an RV. > > > > > > I never heard that before, this is not a fact. I am pretty sure I was told by > > some company that makes the most popular kit plane that their gear design is > > stressed to Part 23 standards. > > JR, you made it look like I posted that message about the gear legs being the > limiting factor. No sir, didn't do it wasn't I that said that. :) No it wasn't Jerry that said that it was I. I could be wrong about it but I have been reading 12 different RV lists for a few months now and I have heard more than one builder comment on the strength of the gear. They all sounded pretty credible to me and one even said that he got the information from Van. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw@programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:58 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium? --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Chris wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Chris > > > Jerry Springer wrote: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer >> >>JRWillJR@aol.com wrote: >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com >>> >>>In a message dated 1/3/2003 5:20:57 PM Central Standard Time, >>>jsflyrv@earthlink.net writes: >> >>>>I think it is common knowledge that the gear legs are limiting factor in >>>> >>>>>gross take off weight of an RV. >>>> >>> >>>I never heard that before, this is not a fact. I am pretty sure I was told by >>>some company that makes the most popular kit plane that their gear design is >>>stressed to Part 23 standards. >> >>JR, you made it look like I posted that message about the gear legs being the >>limiting factor. No sir, didn't do it wasn't I that said that. :) > > > No it wasn't Jerry that said that it was I. I could be wrong about it but I have > been reading 12 different RV lists for a few months now and I have heard more than > one builder comment on the strength of the gear. They all sounded pretty credible > to me and one even said that he got the information from Van. > > > -- > Chris Woodhouse What? Van said his gear legs were not strong enough? Don't think so. As I asked before Chris what do you want your takeoff weight to be? I know of several RV-6s and -6A with takeoff weights of 1800+ lbs. I could see a situation were Van might say gear was a limiting factor if someone asked him a ridiculous question like how much weight could you theoretically takeoff with in an RV. There were some problems with some of the nose gears but I believe that has been addressed already. Chris you need to quit reading so many RV-Lists and build that airplane. :-) Jerry do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:11 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium? --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" He Said - She Said......Unless I was the one who performed the certification test on the plane, or was the engineer who designed/calculated it, I wouldn't comment on heresay. Incidentally, I actually was involved in the Gross weight increase of one certificated airplane, the Citabria/Super Decathlon many years ago and believe me there are more things to consider than just the gear. Airframes, control surfaces, and their respective design limits have a lot to do with gross weight. If you actually do a weight and balance on an 1800+lb/Gross RV6, you'll find that unless you add a lot of extra fuel somewhere, there is PLENTY of usefull load. Case in point...My RV6 weighs 1094empty, gross 1800. Full Fuel=228 lbs. That leaves nearly 500lbs for people and "stuff". Believe me, you get 2 big guys in these things and it's snug. The reality is, that unless you routinely carry 2 250+lb people, or LOTS of baggage, weight just isn't an issue. If I could put 1000lbs into the plane, would it be safe??? What would be the "G" limits of the airframe, etc.. I'm not sure I want to test all that out first hand. Anyway, I'm not trying to sound negative...It's just that in a "real world" scenario with a flying plane, I can attest first hand that I think I've got PLENTY of usefull load, and I'm not the smallest guy on the block. Heck, If I cut out my regular dairy queen treats and Whoppers, I would gain more usefull load without messing up the airplane! Best of luck in your venture, Stein Bruch, Minneapolis RV6, Flying (Not as many hours as the "graybeards" like Jerry, though). RV7, Empennage. And for GOD sakes, do not archive this! Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear legs -- titanium? --> RV-List message posted by: Chris > JR, you made it look like I posted that message about the gear legs being the > limiting factor. No sir, didn't do it wasn't I that said that. :) No it wasn't Jerry that said that it was I. I could be wrong about it but I have been reading 12 different RV lists for a few months now and I have heard more than one builder comment on the strength of the gear. They all sounded pretty credible to me and one even said that he got the information from Van. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw@programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342'