Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:39 AM - Fw: Electric Flaps housing/seat bottom (Jim Sears)
2. 06:23 AM - Cowling, Mixing Skybotl & Hinges (Ed OConnor)
3. 06:44 AM - Hartwell Latch (Rick Galati)
4. 06:57 AM - Flap range...is too much really too much? Yes! (RV_8 Pilot)
5. 07:05 AM - Re: F-1 accident preliminary report (glenn williams)
6. 07:05 AM - F-1 accident preliminary report (RV_8 Pilot)
7. 07:35 AM - From the Ground Up Videos (sjhdcl@kingston.net)
8. 07:36 AM - New rudder trailing edge design (Chris)
9. 08:05 AM - Bolt Question (LarryRobertHelming)
10. 08:09 AM - Re: New rudder trailing edge design (Brian Denk)
11. 08:23 AM - Re: Hartwell Latch (Laird Owens)
12. 08:50 AM - Re: Bolt Question (Dean Pichon)
13. 08:53 AM - Re: New rudder trailing edge design (Dan Checkoway)
14. 09:46 AM - Van's RV5 (Dr. Leathers)
15. 10:20 AM - Re: New rudder trailing edge design (RV4)
16. 10:22 AM - Re: From the Ground Up Videos (RV4)
17. 10:33 AM - Christen Inverted Oil Question. (Todd Rudberg)
18. 11:59 AM - Re: New rudder trailing edge design (RV_8 Pilot)
19. 12:10 PM - Re: new stuff / old stuff (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
20. 12:12 PM - Re: From the Ground Up Videos (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
21. 12:47 PM - Re: new stuff / old stuff (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
22. 02:05 PM - Cowling (Rick Galati)
23. 03:13 PM - Re: Christen Inverted Oil Question.RVList (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
24. 03:13 PM - Re: Cowling (Kyle Boatright)
25. 03:27 PM - Re:Van's RV-5 (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
26. 03:28 PM - Re: Cowling (Greg Young)
27. 04:08 PM - Re:Bolt Question (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
28. 04:27 PM - Re: F-1 accident preliminary report (Alex Peterson)
29. 05:39 PM - Substituting blind rivets for AN426-3 (lucky macy)
30. 06:00 PM - Re: Van's RV5 (Norman)
31. 06:06 PM - Free Stuff (Norman)
32. 07:16 PM - Re: F-1 accident preliminary report (Kevin Horton)
33. 07:16 PM - Re:Christen Inverted Oil System (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
34. 07:23 PM - Re: Substituting blind rivets for AN426-3 (Jim Jewell)
35. 07:27 PM - Re: Flap range...is too much really too much? Yes! (Doug Weiler)
36. 07:45 PM - Re: F-1 accident preliminary report (Kevin Horton)
37. 08:08 PM - Re: F-1 accident preliminary report (rv6tc)
38. 10:16 PM - Re: F-1 accident preliminary report (Rob Prior)
39. 11:17 PM - Re: Cowling (Mark Phillips)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Electric Flaps housing/seat bottom |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
> >> The center of the seat is obviously removable to gain access for
> inspection etc of the elevator pushrod. Is it permissible to cut this
panel
> where the lower front bracket that attaches the EF 601 to the floor makes
a
> bend to meet up with the floor/EF601? The cover panels, EF607's, have a
> very wide flange on them that will overlap the seat bottoms very nicely
aft
> of where the EF601 attaches without the need for the rear-most part of the
> center seat access panel. Just seems like repetition here.<<
>
I've already answered this question off line; but, I did want to make one
little remark concerning one of the answers that said the cover is needed to
form a box
for strength. The cover plate in question is not used on the -9A.
When we built our -6As, the electric flaps were an option later on. The
drawings did not reflect that change; so, the cover plate was used on my RV.
I've been helping another RVer build his -9A and found that they did away
with that cover plate because the side panels on the flaps now cover that
hole from view. The section in front of the flaps is covered by a built up
affair that raises the floor over the approximately four inch wide gap.
That is probably to give the push tube some additional clearance in that
area. My RV's push tube did touch in that area; so, I had to modify the
center cover slightly with a hammer. One doesn't have to do that on the -9A
because of the new style cover.
Another thing I noticed they did was to lower the front channel where it
attaches to the bulkhead at the top. For some of us -6 builders with the
tip up canopies, one could get into big trouble if one followed the
instructions on the flaps and didn't have the canopy lock downs in place.
The angle of the channel conflicted with the canopy lock down tube in the
center. The channel had to be lowered a little to allow the clearance
needed. To make sure one had it right, one had to have the lock downs in
place, which meant it was a good idea not to install the flaps until after
one had the canopy locks in place.
Just some food for thought.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
Message 2
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| Subject: | Cowling, Mixing Skybotl & Hinges |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ed OConnor <EdwardOConnor@compuserve.com>
I will begin work on my Sam James cowlingl soon and planned to use Skybot
fastners at the firewall and the standard hinge along the horizontal part
of the cowl. Has this combo worked for others? If so did you use the
standard hinge or the extruded type? Also, would it be necessary to use
hinge with a wider flange then the sandard P2 hinge? I noticed on Jim
Normans's web site that this is what he did on his Sam James version.
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
Where can a find a couple of Hartwell Latches suitable for installation on
the oil access door? The commonly available H-2000-2 is not
suitable, I'm told the
H-4600-C model works perfectly since it has a catch setback more
suitable for this particular installation. A builder who
successfully installed these latches on his RV-6 oil access door told me he
bought them used at Arlington years ago. Anyone know of a source new
or used?
--- Rick Galati
--- rick07x@earthlink.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Flap range...is too much really too much? Yes! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
I've seen a reply or two already on this issue, but I felt compelled to
throw in my 2 cents as well. Fix this before you use the flaps again. Make
them fail safe using mechanical travel limits to limit flap deflection.
Don't rely on a limit switch!
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: F-1 accident preliminary report |
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams <willig10@yahoo.com>
I understand. But wouldnt the drag of the fuselage
cause the aircraft to streamline in the relative
direction of the wind? I mean you have a slipstream
and a propeller out there in the front. It seems that
the aircraft would try to track in a somewhat straight
fashion and if you have elevator authority it would
appear that you might be able to salvage some sort of
controlability of the aircraft unless you have a total
malfunction of the push rods going to the control
surface. Would you agree? or disagree?
Thanks for the input
Glenn Williams
do not archive
--- Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> Well, if the VS came off, the aircraft would
> probably no longer be
> stable directionally, so the nose would likely slice
> left or right,
> leading to a very large sideslip angle. The
> aircraft could even end
> so the tail was going first for a short period (i.e.
> greater than a
> 90 deg sideslip angle). In any event, the wings
> wouldn't provide
> much lift if the sideslip angle got great enough,
> and if there is
> less lift than weight the flight path will become
> more and more
> vertical.
>
> If the nose isn't pointing somewhat in the direction
> of flight, it
> doesn't matter what the pilot does with the elevator
> - he won't have
> much control of things.
>
> Kevin Horton
>
> At 10:31 AM -0800 8/1/03, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams
> <willig10@yahoo.com>
> >
> >I have heard that the vertical stab departed and I
> >have heard the horizontal departed. If the vertical
> >stab departed, would the pilot still have had
> elevator
> >authority? I heard the aircraft went in almost
> >vertical. If you lose the vertical stab you lose
> yaw
> >not elevator authority if I am correct, Or did the
> >elevator push rod fail as a result of the vertical
> >pulling off?
> >
> >Just curious
> >
> >Glenn Williams
> >
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >--- Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com> wrote:
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow
> >> <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
> >>
> >> What is significant is that the builder did not
> >> include a key structural component of the
> vertical
> >> stab attachment to the fuselage; not so much
> that
> >> the F-1 tail is "nearly identical" to the
> >> RV-8. Had the 1" x 1" angle attach piece (rear
> spar
> >> to fus) been included, this failure probably
> would
> >> not have occurred - even with the additional
> >> problems with the forward spar attachment.
> >>
> >> I am not sure what the part call-out for the F-1
> vs.
> >> the RV tail is, but for RV builders at least the
> >> lesson here is clear - stick to the plans,
> >> especially for key structural components!
> >>
> >> Scott Brumbelow
> >> Memphis, RV-8A
> >> Cowling, electrical
> >>
> >>
> >> James & Shalise Cash wrote:
> >>
> >> > --> RV-List message posted by: "James &
> Shalise
> >> Cash" <jcash@charter.net>
> >> >
> >> > Thought I'd forward this to all my airplane
> >> buddies. If you hadn't heard,
> >> > there was an F-1 Rocket crash in Houston,
> several
> >> weeks ago. An eyewitness
> >> > saw the aircraft impact the ground near
> vertical,
> >> at a high rate of speed.
> >> > The vertical stabilizer tumbled down moments
> >> later. This is Mark
> >> > Frederick's preliminary finding after talking
> to
> >> the FAA, NTSB, and viewing
> >> > the wreckage. It is significant to the RV
> >> community because the F-1 tail is nearly
> identical
> >> to the RV-8, with the exception of a 1/8"
> doubler on
> >> the forward spar of the vertical stabilizer.
> >> > Jimmy
> >> >
> >> > PRELIMINARY REPORT
> >> > CREEKMORE F1 ACCIDENT
> >> >
> >> > Hi All:
> >> >
> >> > I'm sure you have been waiting for some
> definitive
> >> data regarding Tom
> >> > Creekmore's accident. I was able to inspect
> the
> >> wreckage of the aft section
> >> > of the ship last Friday, along with the FAA.
> The
> >> following is my report to
> >> > you, not an official NTSB report.
> >> >
> >> > Preliminary Results are as follows:
> >> >
> >> > The builders did not fabricate nor install the
> >> upper attachment fitting for
> >> > the V Fin aft spar. This is a length of
> 1x1x.125
> >> 6061T6 angle that is
> >> > designed to absorb the Fin torque loads
> resulting
> >> from rudder deflections.
> >> > Four AN3 fasteners attach this fitting to the
> aft
> >> section of the fuselage,
> >> > and to the V Fin aft spar.
> >> >
> >> > Lack of this fitting caused the HS-015 to
> absorb
> >> most of the Fin torque
> >> > loads, in addition to flexing the HS-015 past
> its
> >> fatigue life. It appears
> >> > that the HS-015 failed at one of the V Fin
> spar
> >> attach bolts, and separated
> >> > from the H Stab spar.
> >> >
> >> > In addition, the V Fin fwd spar/HS-015 attach
> >> holes were not drilled per the
> >> > assy manual, with one hole appearing to have
> about
> >> 3/16" ED on the HS-015
> >> > (3/8" would be a standard distance). The
> >> separation at the HS-015 appears to
> > > > have started at this hole.
> >> >
> >> > I will wait for the NTSB to publish their
> >> findings, and I'll add this to a
> >> > dedicated web page detailing what happened.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Mark
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Contributions
> >> any other
> >> Forums.
> >>
> >> latest messages.
> >> List members.
> >>
> >> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> >> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> >> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> >> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> >> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> >> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >=====
> >Glenn Williams
> >8A
> >A&P
> >N81GW
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
Message 6
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| Subject: | F-1 accident preliminary report |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Just to add a couple of thoughts along the line of flight without a vertical
stab. It probably depends on the aircraft and how directionally stable it
is before loosing the fin & rudder. Many moons ago, I was heavy into RC. A
few times we'd get bored and try different (read, crazy) things. Once, I
got dared to fly between (not under, but between) some power and telephone
wires at the end of the field. I did it a couple of times, but the last I
ended up shearing off the fin and rudder.
Well, the plane continued to fly (still have it today). Very squirrely and
tending to yaw and squirm around an awful lot. But I got it back on the
ground in one piece. It was a Sportster, which looks a lot like a
Spacewalker.
Also remember reading about a B-52 that lost its fin and rudder. They
managed to make it back too.
As for an RV or HR, well... I might try it with a model, but don't believe
trying to fly a full scale one without all the pieces would be much fun. I
believe this accident shows they are too unstable to be kept in the air
without all the stabs/surfaces.
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
do not archive
>Well, if the VS came off, the aircraft would probably no longer be
>stable directionally, so the...
Message 7
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| Subject: | From the Ground Up Videos |
--> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net
I recieved 2 copies of these videos for Xmas. They detail the construction of
RV8 QB. Great videos.
EAA sells them for $80. I'll sell for $80 with free shipping anywhere.
do not archive
Steve
RV7A
Video link:
http://shop.eaa.org/html/2videos_ftgu.html?cart_id
Message 8
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RV 7" <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | New rudder trailing edge design |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
Does anyone know why Van's redesigned this part of the plane? It seems
like it is harder to build that way from what I have read so there must
be some advantage to the design over the old one. And if it is better
there why not for the Elevators?
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
Message 9
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--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
When it comes to bolts, there are AN507 type and AN509 type. Our kit to
uses both type. But not both type are sold by ACS or Wicks.
What is the difference in the two if any?
Also, the numbers separated by dashes that follow the AN507/9 signify the
size and length. Which number is the length and which is the size?
Larry in Indiana, building an RV7 to be named 3XG
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New rudder trailing edge design |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
>
>Does anyone know why Van's redesigned this part of the plane? It seems
>like it is harder to build that way from what I have read so there must
>be some advantage to the design over the old one. And if it is better
>there why not for the Elevators?
>
>--
>Chris Woodhouse
I also noticed this in a picture of an RV7A VS from a fellow in Arizona. I
looked at it....and it just looked...different....a LOT! The counterbalance
arm looked different too. I have no idea why the design has changed. Maybe
it's too try and reduce the oil canning issues with the folded trailing edge
design, and associated trim weirdness with bend radius from our home made
wooden bending brakes....as a coworker once said to me, "you used 2x8's and
door hinges to do WHAAAT??"
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Hartwell Latch |
--> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
Rick,
I have a bunch of surplus H-2000-2 latches in good condition. $5
each + $4 s/h. Spruce has new ones for about $25 each.
email me at:
owens@aerovironment.com
if you'd like some.
Laird
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
>
>
>Where can a find a couple of Hartwell Latches suitable for installation on
>the oil access door? The commonly available H-2000-2 is not
>suitable, I'm told the
>
>H-4600-C model works perfectly since it has a catch setback more
>suitable for this particular installation. A builder who
>successfully installed these latches on his RV-6 oil access door told me he
>bought them used at Arlington years ago. Anyone know of a source new
>or used?
>
>
>--- Rick Galati
>
>--- rick07x@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com>
An AN509 is a structural machine screw (flat head w/100 deg). The AN507 is
a non-structual variant.
>From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Bolt Question
>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:06:29 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>When it comes to bolts, there are AN507 type and AN509 type. Our kit to
>uses both type. But not both type are sold by ACS or Wicks.
>
>What is the difference in the two if any?
>
>Also, the numbers separated by dashes that follow the AN507/9 signify the
>size and length. Which number is the length and which is the size?
>
>Larry in Indiana, building an RV7 to be named 3XG
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: New rudder trailing edge design |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I think it's every RV builder's duty to monitor the service notices and
service bulletins page frequently:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/notices.htm
Van's sends these out to all builders by snail mail, but I double check this
page every so often just in case. There's an SB in there that describes the
rudder issue. I sure hope this doesn't spawn yet another debate thread on
which rudder is better...
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: New rudder trailing edge design
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>
> >
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
> >
> >Does anyone know why Van's redesigned this part of the plane? It seems
> >like it is harder to build that way from what I have read so there must
> >be some advantage to the design over the old one. And if it is better
> >there why not for the Elevators?
> >
> >--
> >Chris Woodhouse
>
>
> I also noticed this in a picture of an RV7A VS from a fellow in Arizona.
I
> looked at it....and it just looked...different....a LOT! The
counterbalance
> arm looked different too. I have no idea why the design has changed.
Maybe
> it's too try and reduce the oil canning issues with the folded trailing
edge
> design, and associated trim weirdness with bend radius from our home made
> wooden bending brakes....as a coworker once said to me, "you used 2x8's
and
> door hinges to do WHAAAT??"
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Hey Guys,
Does anyone have a picture of the RV5. If so, I would like to see it! Also, any
history you have on the RV5 would be appreciated. Just curious.
DOC
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: New rudder trailing edge design |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV4" <VansRV4GRVMJ@btinternet.com>
Hi,
I've just finished the rudder "new style" for a RV7 and I think nightmare is
the most polite from of describing it.
The story is that after spin testing Van wasn't too content with the
response of the old one piece rudder and changed to the new rudder which in
fact I believe is a RV9 rudder.
I have some oil canning in the bottom of the rudder on the R/H side. I
preferred the way things were done on the -4, one piece skin not predrilled
or anything, so that at least you could warm the skin before drilling. This
something that does not work well on the prepunched kits since the holes
don't line up if you warm the skin........
I just a piece of 1" box section to do the initial bucking on the trailing
edge and ended up with a fairly straight trailing edge. Then I done the
final bucking on the back rivetting plate.
I found the .016 skin very fragile to work with, and it doesn't leave any
margin if things don't go exactly right when you rivet the stiffners in the
skin. If it so happens that you overdo a rivet here the dimple will turn in
a hump on the otherside.
Also the dimple dies hardly fit on the inside angle of the stiffners without
leaving a mark.
marcel
RV7~1125
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: New rudder trailing edge design
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>
> >
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
> >
> >Does anyone know why Van's redesigned this part of the plane? It seems
> >like it is harder to build that way from what I have read so there must
> >be some advantage to the design over the old one. And if it is better
> >there why not for the Elevators?
> >
> >--
> >Chris Woodhouse
>
>
> I also noticed this in a picture of an RV7A VS from a fellow in Arizona.
I
> looked at it....and it just looked...different....a LOT! The
counterbalance
> arm looked different too. I have no idea why the design has changed.
Maybe
> it's too try and reduce the oil canning issues with the folded trailing
edge
> design, and associated trim weirdness with bend radius from our home made
> wooden bending brakes....as a coworker once said to me, "you used 2x8's
and
> door hinges to do WHAAAT??"
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: From the Ground Up Videos |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV4" <VansRV4GRVMJ@btinternet.com>
Hi
I got mine from the Builders Bookstore. All four for around $ 80 plus
shipping ( correct me if I'm wrong Andy)
marcel
----- Original Message -----
From: <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
Subject: RV-List: From the Ground Up Videos
> --> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net
>
> I recieved 2 copies of these videos for Xmas. They detail the construction
of
> RV8 QB. Great videos.
>
> EAA sells them for $80. I'll sell for $80 with free shipping anywhere.
>
> do not archive
>
> Steve
> RV7A
>
> Video link:
> http://shop.eaa.org/html/2videos_ftgu.html?cart_id>
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Christen Inverted Oil Question. |
RVList <rv-list@matronics.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Todd Rudberg <todd_rudberg@yahoo.com>
I came accross a used inverted oil system. It had
almost all of the components, execpt the hoses and
more importantly the Christen 805 sump plug. This is
the little device that goes on the end of the standard
Lycoming Sump Screen.
Is there anybody in the Seattle/Everett area that has
an inverted system that is not installed so I could
take a peek at this thing with a set of calipers?
Thanks,
Todd
www.acubedllc.com
todd@acubedllc.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: New rudder trailing edge design |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Brian -
My dad's finishing up a -9A, and I believe all the surfaces have this new
edge design. It kind of threw me for a second when I ran my fingers along
the edge... I had to give it a double take until I remembered the new
"sharp" edge design. It's probably stronger, and may be easier to assemble
with a nice appearance.
As for the hinged 2x8's, I've still got mine... I just moved and decided to
keep it. Sounds like I wouldn't need it if I built another.
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
do not archive
I have no idea why the design has changed. Maybe
>it's too try and reduce the oil canning issues with the folded trailing
>edge
>design, and associated trim weirdness with bend radius from our home made
>wooden bending brakes....as a coworker once said to me, "you used 2x8's and
>door hinges to do WHAAAT??"
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: new stuff / old stuff |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
Thank you Fred. I need your shipping address and payment data. Please call
or e-mail back. Also, do you have a preference of postal or UPS delivery?
Thanks,
Andy
Builders Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115 (not sure if this works from Canada; if not try 970 887-2207)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Federico Minlos" <fjminlos@crazy-bear.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: new stuff / old stuff
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Federico Minlos" <fjminlos@crazy-bear.com>
>
> I would like to order Private Pilot Manual - Jeppesen
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: From the Ground Up Videos |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
Yes that's true. But I'm out of stock on them for probably another two
weeks. We're waiting for EAA to make some more.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
>
> Hi
>
> I got mine from the Builders Bookstore. All four for around $ 80 plus
> shipping ( correct me if I'm wrong Andy)
>
> marcel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: From the Ground Up Videos
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: new stuff / old stuff |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
oooops. Sorry about that. Once again, the hand works quicker than the
brain.
Andy
do not archive
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company"
<winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
>
>
> Thank you Fred. ......
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
I am fitting the type "S" cowl on my RV-6A. The lower cowl is molded
with a 1" wide flange around the perimeter. I know to leave the
(lower cowl intake) flange intact where the cowls meet up
front, but why is the flange on the rest of the cowl in the first
place? Is this flange just a tooling detail for me to immediately remove
or do I have to keep this flange intact for some reason while initially fitting
the upper and lower halves together on the airplane?
--- Rick Galati
--- rick07x@earthlink.net
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Christen Inverted Oil Question.RVList |
<rv-list@matronics.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@mcleodusa.net>
Todd Rudberg wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Todd Rudberg <todd_rudberg@yahoo.com>
>
> I came accross a used inverted oil system. It had
> almost all of the components, execpt the hoses and
> more importantly the Christen 805 sump plug. This is
> the little device that goes on the end of the standard
> Lycoming Sump Screen.
>
> Is there anybody in the Seattle/Everett area that has
> an inverted system that is not installed so I could
> take a peek at this thing with a set of calipers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd
> www.acubedllc.com
> todd@acubedllc.com
>
I'M in Illinois, but if you want, I will take the measurements here and send
you??? Do you ever fly into Snohomish airport?
Phil Sisson
Message 24
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
I had the same question 3-4 years ago. The folks at Van's said that it
simply gave builders a starting place if they wanted to use screws or
cam-loc's instead of hinges in that area.
If you're planning on using the hinges, go ahead and trim it off.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Cowling
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
>
>
> I am fitting the type "S" cowl on my RV-6A. The lower cowl is molded
> with a 1" wide flange around the perimeter. I know to leave the
> (lower cowl intake) flange intact where the cowls meet up
> front, but why is the flange on the rest of the cowl in the first
> place? Is this flange just a tooling detail for me to immediately remove
> or do I have to keep this flange intact for some reason while initially
fitting
> the upper and lower halves together on the airplane?
>
>
> --- Rick Galati
>
> --- rick07x@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 25
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--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
Here's what I have : Van built the RV-5 back in the early 80's for the
"Contest" to build a flying recreational vehicle. I believe it was planned to
use a half VW engine . A company ( I don't remember which) that built early
ultra-light engines sent him an engine later and he was going to try it . He
resurected the RV-5 from the briar patch beside the shop for awhile at that
time . Last time I saw it , I believe was in the shop attic .
Something close to this I think.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
" Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers "
Message 26
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
The flange at the horizontal split is for those who choose to use
camlocs or other non-piano hinge fasteners. If you use the hinge it gets
cut off.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
>
>
> I am fitting the type "S" cowl on my RV-6A. The lower cowl is molded
> with a 1" wide flange around the perimeter. I know to leave the
> (lower cowl intake) flange intact where the cowls meet up
> front, but why is the flange on the rest of the cowl in the first
> place? Is this flange just a tooling detail for me to
> immediately remove
> or do I have to keep this flange intact for some reason while
> initially fitting
> the upper and lower halves together on the airplane?
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re:Bolt Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
Dean, I sent you an email with attachments , AN Hardware Illustrations.
You can print them for shop reference sheets.
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
Message 28
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| Subject: | F-1 accident preliminary report |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> Just to add a couple of thoughts along the line of flight
> without a vertical
> stab. It probably depends on the aircraft and how
> directionally stable it
> is before loosing the fin & rudder.
The Airbus that crashed in late 2001 in NYC yawed so bad after the
rudder/fin separated that the engines were peeled off the wings. If a
similar amount of side area is ahead of the CG as compared to aft of it,
little yaw stability will be present without the fin/rudder.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 247 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Substituting blind rivets for AN426-3 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
Anyone disagree with me substituting either the MK319BS or MSC-32 blind
rivets for the plans called for AN426AD3-4 rivets used to attach the root
wing tank Z bracket to the rear of the main spar? I just don't want to buck
in such tight quarters near the spar doubler for a plate nut.
thanks,
lucky
Message 30
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
> Does anyone have a picture of the RV5. If so, I would like to see it!
Also, any history you have on the RV5 would be appreciated. Just curious.
Is that the one with the swinging wing? The last picture I saw of it was in
one of Van's calenders, about 1997 or 1998. Some one should have an old copy
and be able to scan it and post it some where.
The last time I saw the airplane it was up in the rafters of Van's personal
hanger. It was undamaged but sort of retired. He has a hanger attached to
the garage that served as his aircraft factory for a bunch of years. When it
outgrew, he moved production, sales, and shipping to the other side of the
highway in downtown North Plains Oregon. He kept the R&D department with
prototype building at the old shop on his personal property.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Message 31
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
Does any one in the Vancouver area want a set of West System Epoxy pumps? They
are worth about $26 but you can have them for free if you come and get them. I
ended up with two sets so the older set can go to a new home. They work just
fine.
Jim Hasper - do you still want the new, unused Van's Fuel Valve that I have left
over? If so fire me your address and I'll send it off.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Do not archive posts like this
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: F-1 accident preliminary report |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
At 7:01 AM -0800 9/1/03, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams <willig10@yahoo.com>
>
>I understand. But wouldnt the drag of the fuselage
>cause the aircraft to streamline in the relative
>direction of the wind? I mean you have a slipstream
>and a propeller out there in the front. It seems that
>the aircraft would try to track in a somewhat straight
>fashion and if you have elevator authority it would
>appear that you might be able to salvage some sort of
>controlability of the aircraft unless you have a total
>malfunction of the push rods going to the control
>surface. Would you agree? or disagree?
>
>Thanks for the input
>
>Glenn Williams
>
>do not archive
>
>--- Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com> wrote:
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>> <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>>
>> Well, if the VS came off, the aircraft would
>> probably no longer be
>> stable directionally, so the nose would likely slice
>> left or right,
>> leading to a very large sideslip angle. The
>> aircraft could even end
>> so the tail was going first for a short period (i.e.
>> greater than a
>> 90 deg sideslip angle). In any event, the wings
>> wouldn't provide
>> much lift if the sideslip angle got great enough,
>> and if there is
>> less lift than weight the flight path will become
>> more and more
>> vertical.
>>
>> If the nose isn't pointing somewhat in the direction
>> of flight, it
>> doesn't matter what the pilot does with the elevator
>> - he won't have
>> much control of things.
>>
>> Kevin Horton
>>
>> At 10:31 AM -0800 8/1/03, you wrote:
>> >--> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams
>> <willig10@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >I have heard that the vertical stab departed and I
>> >have heard the horizontal departed. If the vertical
>> >stab departed, would the pilot still have had
>> elevator
>> >authority? I heard the aircraft went in almost
>> >vertical. If you lose the vertical stab you lose
>> yaw
>> >not elevator authority if I am correct, Or did the
>> >elevator push rod fail as a result of the vertical
>> >pulling off?
>> >
>> >Just curious
>> >
>> >Glenn Williams
>> >
>> >do not archive
>> >
>> >
>> >--- Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com> wrote:
>> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow
>> >> <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
>> >>
>> >> What is significant is that the builder did not
>> >> include a key structural component of the
>> vertical
>> >> stab attachment to the fuselage; not so much
>> that
>> >> the F-1 tail is "nearly identical" to the
>> >> RV-8. Had the 1" x 1" angle attach piece (rear
>> spar
>> >> to fus) been included, this failure probably
>> would
>> >> not have occurred - even with the additional
>> >> problems with the forward spar attachment.
>> >>
>> >> I am not sure what the part call-out for the F-1
>> vs.
>> >> the RV tail is, but for RV builders at least the
>> >> lesson here is clear - stick to the plans,
>> >> especially for key structural components!
>> >>
>> >> Scott Brumbelow
>> >> Memphis, RV-8A
>> >> Cowling, electrical
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> James & Shalise Cash wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > --> RV-List message posted by: "James &
>> Shalise
>> >> Cash" <jcash@charter.net>
>> >> >
>> >> > Thought I'd forward this to all my airplane
>> >> buddies. If you hadn't heard,
>> >> > there was an F-1 Rocket crash in Houston,
>> several
>> >> weeks ago. An eyewitness
>> >> > saw the aircraft impact the ground near
>> vertical,
>> >> at a high rate of speed.
>> >> > The vertical stabilizer tumbled down moments
>> >> later. This is Mark
>> >> > Frederick's preliminary finding after talking
>> to
>> >> the FAA, NTSB, and viewing
>> >> > the wreckage. It is significant to the RV
>> >> community because the F-1 tail is nearly
>> identical
>> >> to the RV-8, with the exception of a 1/8"
>> doubler on
>> >> the forward spar of the vertical stabilizer.
>> >> > Jimmy
>> >> >
>> >> > PRELIMINARY REPORT
>> >> > CREEKMORE F1 ACCIDENT
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi All:
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm sure you have been waiting for some
>> definitive
>> >> data regarding Tom
> > >> > Creekmore's accident. I was able to inspect
>> the
>> >> wreckage of the aft section
>> >> > of the ship last Friday, along with the FAA.
>> The
>> >> following is my report to
>> >> > you, not an official NTSB report.
>> >> >
>> >> > Preliminary Results are as follows:
>> >> >
>> >> > The builders did not fabricate nor install the
>> >> upper attachment fitting for
>> >> > the V Fin aft spar. This is a length of
>> 1x1x.125
>> >> 6061T6 angle that is
>> >> > designed to absorb the Fin torque loads
>> resulting
>> >> from rudder deflections.
>> >> > Four AN3 fasteners attach this fitting to the
>> aft
>> >> section of the fuselage,
>> >> > and to the V Fin aft spar.
>> >> >
>> >> > Lack of this fitting caused the HS-015 to
>> absorb
>> >> most of the Fin torque
>> >> > loads, in addition to flexing the HS-015 past
>> its
>> >> fatigue life. It appears
>> >> > that the HS-015 failed at one of the V Fin
>> spar
>> >> attach bolts, and separated
>> >> > from the H Stab spar.
>> >> >
>> >> > In addition, the V Fin fwd spar/HS-015 attach
>> >> holes were not drilled per the
>> >> > assy manual, with one hole appearing to have
>> about
>> >> 3/16" ED on the HS-015
>> >> > (3/8" would be a standard distance). The
>> >> separation at the HS-015 appears to
>> > > > have started at this hole.
>> >> >
>> >> > I will wait for the NTSB to publish their
>> >> findings, and I'll add this to a
>> >> > dedicated web page detailing what happened.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Mark
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Contributions
>> >> any other
>> >> Forums.
>> >>
>> >> latest messages.
>> >> List members.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>> >> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
>> >> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
>> >> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>> >> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>> >> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >=====
>> >Glenn Williams
>> >8A
>> >A&P
>> >N81GW
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> Contributions
>> any other
>> Forums.
>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>=====
>Glenn Williams
>8A
>A&P
>N81GW
>
>
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re:Christen Inverted Oil System |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
The fitting you are describing is a two-piece fitting . It adjusts to the
angle you need the fitting to point.
I had to buy the three fittings for the sump from Aviatt - for a mere $ 411.
Someone else makes a similar system , so check their price first.
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Substituting blind rivets for AN426-3 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Lucky,
Your question would be a prime candidate for the "call or email Van's and
ask them" category list of advise responses.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Substituting blind rivets for AN426-3
> --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
>
> Anyone disagree with me substituting either the MK319BS or MSC-32 blind
> rivets for the plans called for AN426AD3-4 rivets used to attach the root
> wing tank Z bracket to the rear of the main spar? I just don't want to
buck
> in such tight quarters near the spar doubler for a plate nut.
>
> thanks,
> lucky
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Flap range...is too much really too much? Yes! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>
> I've seen a reply or two already on this issue, but I felt compelled to
> throw in my 2 cents as well. Fix this before you use the flaps again.
Make
> them fail safe using mechanical travel limits to limit flap deflection.
> Don't rely on a limit switch!
>
> Bryan Jones -8
> Pearland, Texas
>
This is very timely as I have just finished the first installation and
rigging of the electric flaps on my RV-4. They extend to 50 degrees in the
full down condition. I talked to Van about this and it must be corrected.
What must be done is that the hole on the EF-401 must be moved closer to
it's pivot point to reduce the throw of the flaps. Once this is done, then
the up position is rigged by varying the length of the pushrods going to the
flaps.
If you have any problems, let me know off list.
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: F-1 accident preliminary report |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Well, if you were to start reducing the size of the VS to nothing,
and then start increasing the side area in the front part of the
fuselage, at some point in this whole process the aircraft's nose
would no longer want to point in the direction it was going. I
really don't know at what point in the process this point would be.
It is interesting to note that all aircraft I know of have some sort
of vertical stabilizing surface or surfaces. I suspect that if
aircraft could keep the nose pointed into wind without a VS that
someone would be flying one that way, as one less surface would be
less weight and drag. The closest thing I know to an aircraft
without a VS is the original prototype Gee Bee R-1, which had no VS
on its first flight. The rudder was attached to the rear of the
fuselage. However they added a VS after the first flight, even
though this aircraft was a racer, and extra surface area would slow
it down.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4515/bobtail22.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4515/geebeer2.html
Try taking a rubber band powered model that was designed to have a
VS, then remove the VS and rudder, and let us know how it flies.
Kevin
At 7:01 AM -0800 9/1/03, Glenn Williams wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams <willig10@yahoo.com>
>
>I understand. But wouldnt the drag of the fuselage
>cause the aircraft to streamline in the relative
>direction of the wind? I mean you have a slipstream
>and a propeller out there in the front. It seems that
>the aircraft would try to track in a somewhat straight
>fashion and if you have elevator authority it would
>appear that you might be able to salvage some sort of
>controlability of the aircraft unless you have a total
>malfunction of the push rods going to the control
>surface. Would you agree? or disagree?
>
>Thanks for the input
>
>Glenn Williams
>
>do not archive
>
>--- Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com> wrote:
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>> <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>>
>> Well, if the VS came off, the aircraft would
>> probably no longer be
>> stable directionally, so the nose would likely slice
>> left or right,
>> leading to a very large sideslip angle. The
>> aircraft could even end
>> so the tail was going first for a short period (i.e.
>> greater than a
>> 90 deg sideslip angle). In any event, the wings
>> wouldn't provide
>> much lift if the sideslip angle got great enough,
>> and if there is
>> less lift than weight the flight path will become
>> more and more
>> vertical.
>>
>> If the nose isn't pointing somewhat in the direction
>> of flight, it
>> doesn't matter what the pilot does with the elevator
>> - he won't have
>> much control of things.
>>
>> Kevin Horton
>>
>> At 10:31 AM -0800 8/1/03, you wrote:
>> >--> RV-List message posted by: glenn williams
>> <willig10@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >I have heard that the vertical stab departed and I
>> >have heard the horizontal departed. If the vertical
>> >stab departed, would the pilot still have had
>> elevator
>> >authority? I heard the aircraft went in almost
>> >vertical. If you lose the vertical stab you lose
>> yaw
>> >not elevator authority if I am correct, Or did the
>> >elevator push rod fail as a result of the vertical
>> >pulling off?
>> >
>> >Just curious
>> >
>> >Glenn Williams
>> >
> > >do not archive
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: F-1 accident preliminary report |
--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@earthlink.net>
Don't forget the B-2. In addition to what you mentioned, it provides
greater stealth characteristics. To provide yaw stability, the
elvon/speedbrakes "flutter" to provide drag to keep the nose tracking
straight. Of course... all computer controlled.
Keith
Denver
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: F-1 accident preliminary report
>
> It is interesting to note that all aircraft I know of have some sort
> of vertical stabilizing surface or surfaces. I suspect that if
> aircraft could keep the nose pointed into wind without a VS that
> someone would be flying one that way, as one less surface would be
> less weight and drag.
Message 38
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| Subject: | F-1 accident preliminary report |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
> > Just to add a couple of thoughts along the line of flight
> > without a vertical
> > stab. It probably depends on the aircraft and how
> > directionally stable it
> > is before loosing the fin & rudder.
>
> The Airbus that crashed in late 2001 in NYC yawed so bad after the
> rudder/fin separated that the engines were peeled off the wings. If a
> similar amount of side area is ahead of the CG as compared to aft of it,
> little yaw stability will be present without the fin/rudder.
>
Just to add some more variety, there are many anecdotal stories of WWII
bombers and fighters coming back from missions with missing control
surfaces, and i'm sure i've read more than one account of returning
without a fin/rudder. As I recall the return involved very carefully
chosen manoeuvers, ie. gentle 1-2 degree bank turns, etc.
I wonder if varying the engine power would cause enough yaw to be
effective? At least in getting the aircraft back to it's base? The
landing may be awkward, but at least you'd be home...
Do not archive.
-RB4
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
...just in case you get a wild hair and decide to join the two halves
along the horizontal with "screws" 8-) or even "camlox" aiiiieeeee!!)
If you're gonna use the hinges, whack them bad boys off! (carefully,
though...)
From The PossumWorks in TN -
Mark -6A, playing with cowl............
(& using them hinge thangs)
Rick Galati wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
>
>
> I am fitting the type "S" cowl on my RV-6A. The lower cowl is molded
> with a 1" wide flange around the perimeter. I know to leave the
> (lower cowl intake) flange intact where the cowls meet up
> front, but why is the flange on the rest of the cowl in the first
> place? Is this flange just a tooling detail for me to immediately remove
> or do I have to keep this flange intact for some reason while initially fitting
> the upper and lower halves together on the airplane?
>
>
> --- Rick Galati
>
> --- rick07x@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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