Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 AM - Two color painting (Dana Overall)
2. 05:59 AM - SW fuel sender for inverted tank (Steve Struyk)
3. 06:11 AM - Re: Two color painting (Dave von Linsowe)
4. 07:08 AM - Avionics wiring (Stephen Johnson)
5. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Misc Questions...liquid shim (Rick Galati)
6. 08:12 AM - Re: Avionics wiring (Knicholas2@aol.com)
7. 08:35 AM - Odyssey Battery (Ed_Cole@maximhq.com)
8. 08:36 AM - New books for Homebuilders (sonja.englert@juno.com)
9. 09:09 AM - Re: SW fuel sender mount for inverted tank (Jack Textor)
10. 09:19 AM - Re: Odyssey Battery (Dan Checkoway)
11. 09:45 AM - Re: Odyssey Battery (sjhdcl@kingston.net)
12. 12:13 PM - RV8 wingtips (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
13. 01:14 PM - Re: RV8 wingtips (RV_8 Pilot)
14. 01:37 PM - Re: RV8 wingtips (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
15. 02:15 PM - Re: RV8 wingtips (lucky macy)
16. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Re: Misc Questions...liquid shim (Richard Dudley)
17. 02:59 PM - quickbuild vs slow build fuse question (lucky macy)
18. 03:08 PM - Re: RV8 wingtips (Rick Jory)
19. 03:21 PM - Re: RV8 wingtips (Larry Bowen)
20. 03:21 PM - Re: RV8 wingtips (Ross Schlotthauer)
21. 03:33 PM - Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question (Rick Jory)
22. 03:44 PM - Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question (Scott Brumbelow)
23. 03:56 PM - Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question (Dan Checkoway)
24. 04:12 PM - Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
25. 04:13 PM - Re: RV8 wingtips (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
26. 04:51 PM - Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question (lucky macy)
27. 04:58 PM - Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question (Dana Overall)
28. 05:03 PM - Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question (Jim Jewell)
29. 05:38 PM - [Fw: AeroElectric-List: Lancair BMA Flight Testing] (EFIS info) (Charlie and Tupper England)
30. 06:54 PM - Garmin 295 Fuel Interface (bruno)
31. 07:16 PM - Barts Engines (Tom Brandon)
32. 07:46 PM - Voltage Drop (Mark and Sabina Gilbert)
33. 11:04 PM - Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question (James E. Clark)
34. 11:22 PM - Re: Barts Engines (KAKlewin@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Two color painting |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Gang, a guy on another aviaition list I am on is looking for advice on
alliviating the line associated with butting two paints. Any advice I can
forward??
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | SW fuel sender for inverted tank |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
I don't have pictures of mine but this may help.
I cut the reinforcement ring in one place (between the nutplates) to enable insertion
inside the tank. Installed the nutplates into the ring and baffle, then
prosealed and screwed the cover plate (w/o gasket) to the baffle. Of course the
SW sender goes into the cover plate. Worked for me. Leak tested just fine over
a three day period.
Hope this helps,
Steve Struyk
RV-8, N842S (res)
St. Charles, MO
plumbing and wiring
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Two color painting |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
Match paint, i.e. don't apply one color over the other. Use high quality
tape, 3M fine line. Sand and clear coat.
Dave
RV-6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Two color painting
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> Gang, a guy on another aviaition list I am on is looking for advice on
> alliviating the line associated with butting two paints. Any advice I can
> forward??
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn@ix.netcom.com>
There is a completely new approach to avionics wiring that has been
developed by a company in Utah. They gave a presentation to our local RV
group a couple of months ago. I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been
much on the list about this, so I thought I'd post something so that anybody
at the stage of avionics installation would at least take a look at this
approach. The company is Approach Systems and their web site is
www.approach-systems.com
They basically have a modular system with a multilayer circuit board as a
hub with pre-wired cables to the boxes. This offers big advantages in noise
immunity, time savings and trouble shooting. I'm a retired EE and I spent
some 30 years knocking around electronics labs, and I have to personally
recommend this way to go. I have absolutely no connection with this
company. Happy building.
Steve Johnson
RV-8, fuselage
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: Misc Questions...liquid shim |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
RE: Re: Misc Questions ...liquid
shim
Jack,
The basics are thus. If a hinge half cannot be installed without
inducing a pre load during installation however slight,
we all know how this translates into a binding or difficult to insert pin,
especially when the run is long. I borrowed
this technique from my work years when we drove ourselves nuts trying to
make the avionics panel doors interchangeable
on the nose cone of the T-45 Goshawk. Even though each door contained
only 2 hinges 5" long, the specifications required
being able to pull the hinge pins out with next to no friction, then taking
those doors and install them on the next airplane!
Easier said than done. All manner of solid shim was tried and each aircraft
was different requiring many hours of labor
to custom fit the doors. Some bright engineer came up with the
idea of instead of installing the hinges with solid shims,
to float the hinges in with liquid shim. The hinge halves are
"buttered" with liquid shim and temporarily installed on the
assembly with c-clamps with very slight pressure, just enough to hold the
hinge in place. The pin is inserted and free
movement of the pin must occur. The c-clamps are tightened just enough to
insure an adequate squeeze out of liquid
shim all the while rechecking that the pin does not bind. After
curing, the rivet holes are redrilled though the hinge and
rivets installed. Works like a charm. And the actual work is a
lot less trouble than it sounds. This is the basic procedure
to give you some idea what to anticipate and you will probably find
each hinge installation on your RV will require some
creative variation of this technique.
Rick Galati RV-6A FWF
Subject:
RE: Re: Misc Questions ...liquid
shim
From:
Jack Textor (jack@personnelincorporated.com )
Date:
Tue Jan 14 - 3:44
PM
-- RV-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" jack@personnelincorporated.com
Rick,
Could you further explain matching hinge halves together?
Jack Textor
RV8, wings
DSM
--- Rick Galati
--- rick07x@earthlink.net
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics wiring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Knicholas2@aol.com
In a message dated 1/15/2003 7:10:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
spjohnsn@ix.netcom.com writes:
<< There is a completely new approach to avionics wiring that has been
developed by a company in Utah. >>
I used their product to wire the avionics in my RV9A and it is GREAT!!! The
system uses "passive" junction box that each avionics unit plug into. The
key here is the wiring bundle from each radio. All you do is plug the wire
bundle into the back of your radio, the other end into the magic box, another
wire to the bus, one to ground and the antenna. (It is all well labled and
idiot proof). Poof. Done. Very fast. Very cool. I had some problems with
the transponder wiring and the KX155 - they fixed it immediately. No fuss.
The customer service is very good - talk to Chris. THe other beauty here is
if you ever want to change radios - all you do is take out the old one,
tell the guys at Apporach Systems what you are installing and they will buy
back the old cable, send you a new cable for the appropriate radio, and you
have the new one installed in less than an hour. Nothing short of amazing.
Would I do it again - DAMN RIGHT. I am a believer.
(I get no kick-backs from Apporach Systems - I just really like their stuff.)
Kim Nicholas
Seattle
RV9A - finishing FWF and avionics DONE....
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ed_Cole@maximhq.com
Listers,
A fellow builder is looking for the best price on an Odyssey PC680 battery.
I had purchased one last summer for $98 with free shipping from Batteries
Unlimited.
Does anyone else know of a better deal or dealer?
Also, where can you find the terminal adapters?
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
Message 8
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| Subject: | New books for Homebuilders |
--> RV-List message posted by: sonja.englert@juno.com
Hi everyone,
I would like to introduce myself to this group. I am an aeronautical engineer,
pilot, airplane homebuilder and writer. I have written 3 new books for airplane
homebuilders, which you can check out on my web page www.caroengineering.com.
They are mainly for airplane homebuilders, but should be of interest to anyone
who wants to install engines, work with composites or flight test an airplane.
Cheers,
Sonja Englert
www.caroengineering.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | SW fuel sender mount for inverted tank |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" <jack@personnelincorporated.com>
Lucky,
Just emailed you 3 pics that should help.
Jack Textor
RV8, wings
DSM
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Last I shopped, it was $62.55 at http://www.batteries4everything.com (P/N
43105).
Depending on location, shipping, etc., Sunn Battery also has it for $74.59:
http://www.sunnbattery.bigstep.com/item.jhtml?PRID=1292858
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ed_Cole@maximhq.com>
Subject: RV-List: Odyssey Battery
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ed_Cole@maximhq.com
>
> Listers,
> A fellow builder is looking for the best price on an Odyssey PC680
battery.
> I had purchased one last summer for $98 with free shipping from Batteries
> Unlimited.
> Does anyone else know of a better deal or dealer?
> Also, where can you find the terminal adapters?
>
>
> Ed Cole
> RV6A N2169D Flying
> RV6A N648RV Finishing
>
> Maxim Home Page:
> http://www.maxim-ic.com
> Products Page:
> http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
> New Products:
> http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
> Datasheets:
> http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
> The information contained in this message is confidential
> and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
> solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
> or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery |
--> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net
www.batteries4everything.com.
Click on products, and then
Odyssey batteries. Don't select aircraft batteries. Odyssey
doesn't list under that heading.
You won't find much cheaper than that. $62.55
Steve
RV7A
Quoting Ed_Cole@maximhq.com:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ed_Cole@maximhq.com
>
> Listers,
> A fellow builder is looking for the best price on an Odyssey PC680 battery.
> I had purchased one last summer for $98 with free shipping from Batteries
> Unlimited.
> Does anyone else know of a better deal or dealer?
> Also, where can you find the terminal adapters?
>
>
> Ed Cole
> RV6A N2169D Flying
> RV6A N648RV Finishing
>
> Maxim Home Page:
> http://www.maxim-ic.com
> Products Page:
> http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
> New Products:
> http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
> Datasheets:
> http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
> The information contained in this message is confidential
> and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
> solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
> or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
I asked this (possibly inane) question earlier, and did not get any replies (not
even flames) . I may have inadvertently mis-directed the e-mail. So, here goes
again.
It seems that some people use RV7 wing tips on their RV8 for cosmetic reasons.
Since I believe that this modification results in a greater wing span, I would
like to know how this would change the performance of the RV8.
DOC
Prepariing my shop and trying to decide on an airplane.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 wingtips |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>It seems that some people use RV7 wing tips on their RV8 for cosmetic
>reasons. Since I believe that this modification results in a greater wing
>span, I would like to know how this would change the performance of the
>RV8.
Probably somewhat less maneuverable in the hanger.
Sorry - couldn't resist. I bet the difference would be negligible.
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 wingtips |
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
Hi All,
I asked, when I was at the factory, about the difference in the "old" style
wingtip, and the "new" style wingtip. I was told it was only an appearance
change. No change in performance.
As a Subtle Observation:
If you want the "new" appearance and a "couple" miles per hour at each end of
the airspeed envelope, you'll need to get the "Hot Tips" from Massey Aircraft
Service. That is, if you don't sand the "sharp" edge off the outer edge of
the wingtip.
If you want a nice rounded edges on the end of the wingtip and don't care
about performance improvements, just buy Van's wingtip.
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
(Standard disclaimer c##p about not being affiliated with Massey Aircraft
Service or Van's Aircraft)
P.S. look in the yeller pages for Massey Aircraft Service.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 wingtips |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
well, according to the RVator, they couldn't tell a difference in flight
between wingtips. It's not dramatic like with and without wheelpants.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>
> >It seems that some people use RV7 wing tips on their RV8 for cosmetic
> >reasons. Since I believe that this modification results in a greater wing
> >span, I would like to know how this would change the performance of the
> >RV8.
>
> Probably somewhat less maneuverable in the hanger.
>
> Sorry - couldn't resist. I bet the difference would be negligible.
>
> Bryan Jones -8
> Pearland, Texas
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: Misc Questions...liquid shim |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Hi Rick,
Very attractive idea and desirable result. I would ask for some
additional clarification, though, as applied to cowl attachment hinges.
Have you match drilled the hinge half to the firewall before applying
the liquid shim or first applied the liquid shim to the hinge half,
clamped it to the firewall flange, cured and then drilled the hinge?
For the hinge half attached to the cowl it would seem that you would
have to drill first for hole registration, apply the liquid shim, cleco
in place to register the holes, insert the pin and clamp.
I would appreciate any clarification.
Thanks,
Richard Dudley
-6A FWF
Rick Galati wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
>
> RE: Re: Misc Questions ...liquid
> shim
>
> Jack,
>
> The basics are thus. If a hinge half cannot be installed without
> inducing a pre load during installation however slight,
>
> we all know how this translates into a binding or difficult to insert pin,
> especially when the run is long. I borrowed
>
> this technique from my work years when we drove ourselves nuts trying to
> make the avionics panel doors interchangeable
>
> on the nose cone of the T-45 Goshawk. Even though each door contained
> only 2 hinges 5" long, the specifications required
>
> being able to pull the hinge pins out with next to no friction, then taking
> those doors and install them on the next airplane!
>
> Easier said than done. All manner of solid shim was tried and each aircraft
> was different requiring many hours of labor
>
> to custom fit the doors. Some bright engineer came up with the
> idea of instead of installing the hinges with solid shims,
>
> to float the hinges in with liquid shim. The hinge halves are
> "buttered" with liquid shim and temporarily installed on the
>
> assembly with c-clamps with very slight pressure, just enough to hold the
> hinge in place. The pin is inserted and free
>
> movement of the pin must occur. The c-clamps are tightened just enough to
> insure an adequate squeeze out of liquid
>
> shim all the while rechecking that the pin does not bind. After
> curing, the rivet holes are redrilled though the hinge and
>
> rivets installed. Works like a charm. And the actual work is a
> lot less trouble than it sounds. This is the basic procedure
>
> to give you some idea what to anticipate and you will probably find
> each hinge installation on your RV will require some
>
> creative variation of this technique.
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A FWF
>
> Subject:
>
> RE: Re: Misc Questions ...liquid
> shim
>
> From:
>
> Jack Textor (jack@personnelincorporated.com )
>
> Date:
>
> Tue Jan 14 - 3:44
> PM
> -- RV-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" jack@personnelincorporated.com
>
> Rick,
> Could you further explain matching hinge halves together?
> Jack Textor
> RV8, wings
> DSM
>
> --- Rick Galati
>
> --- rick07x@earthlink.net
>
Message 17
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"rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | quickbuild vs slow build fuse question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
A quickbuild friend just told me if he were me he'd get the slow build. His reasoning
is that Van's did all the big easy stuff that goes together relatively
easily (minus bucking inside down at the tail end he said) and the little pain
in the you know what stuff he had to do anyway. He said he wasn't happy with
all their rivets, thought he could have done a better job and drilled out and
redid some of their stuff. Whatever.
But, generally speaking, has anyone estimated the number of approximate hours one
has to put into the fuse to get it into the same shape as the quickbuild fuse?
He has a point, the extra $ can go towards a CS prop, better electronics,
etc for a few weeks of "easy" work. Yeah, right. Any thoughts?
do not archive
lucky
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 wingtips |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory" <rickjory@msn.com>
I asked Mike Seager when doing my transition training about the two
different tip offerings. Mike flies all of the factory ships, including the
6 and 6A. He's flown with both tips, and suggested the "old style" is
actually "a bit better". I don't think there's any noticeable difference .
. . it's probably builder preference. I just thought it was interesting
that he liked the old style.
do not archive
Rick Jory RV8A, old tips
----- Original Message -----
From: <LeastDrag93066@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips
> --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
>
> Hi All,
>
> I asked, when I was at the factory, about the difference in the "old"
style
> wingtip, and the "new" style wingtip. I was told it was only an
appearance
> change. No change in performance.
>
> As a Subtle Observation:
> If you want the "new" appearance and a "couple" miles per hour at each end
of
> the airspeed envelope, you'll need to get the "Hot Tips" from Massey
Aircraft
> Service. That is, if you don't sand the "sharp" edge off the outer edge
of
> the wingtip.
> If you want a nice rounded edges on the end of the wingtip and don't care
> about performance improvements, just buy Van's wingtip.
>
> Jim Ayers
> Less Drag Products, Inc.
> (Standard disclaimer c##p about not being affiliated with Massey Aircraft
> Service or Van's Aircraft)
>
> P.S. look in the yeller pages for Massey Aircraft Service.
>
>
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I made said change primary because it allows me to the position lights
IN the tips, instead of ON the tips, with very little fiberglass work.
The old style tips I would have had to cut a hole and fit the RMD light
kits to get the same result.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003: The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr.
> Kevin P. Leathers
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 3:10 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV8 wingtips
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
> --> <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
> I asked this (possibly inane) question earlier, and did not
> get any replies (not even flames) . I may have inadvertently
> mis-directed the e-mail. So, here goes again.
>
> It seems that some people use RV7 wing tips on their RV8 for
> cosmetic reasons. Since I believe that this modification
> results in a greater wing span, I would like to know how this
> would change the performance of the RV8.
>
> DOC
> Prepariing my shop and trying to decide on an airplane.
>
>
> ==========
> Matronics Forums.
> ==========
> List members.
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 wingtips |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
you can't teach an old dog new tricks!
--- Rick Jory <rickjory@msn.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory"
> <rickjory@msn.com>
>
> I asked Mike Seager when doing my transition
> training about the two
> different tip offerings. Mike flies all of the
> factory ships, including the
> 6 and 6A. He's flown with both tips, and suggested
> the "old style" is
> actually "a bit better". I don't think there's any
> noticeable difference .
> . . it's probably builder preference. I just
> thought it was interesting
> that he liked the old style.
> do not archive
> Rick Jory RV8A, old tips
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <LeastDrag93066@aol.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by:
> LeastDrag93066@aol.com
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I asked, when I was at the factory, about the
> difference in the "old"
> style
> > wingtip, and the "new" style wingtip. I was told
> it was only an
> appearance
> > change. No change in performance.
> >
> > As a Subtle Observation:
> > If you want the "new" appearance and a "couple"
> miles per hour at each end
> of
> > the airspeed envelope, you'll need to get the "Hot
> Tips" from Massey
> Aircraft
> > Service. That is, if you don't sand the "sharp"
> edge off the outer edge
> of
> > the wingtip.
> > If you want a nice rounded edges on the end of the
> wingtip and don't care
> > about performance improvements, just buy Van's
> wingtip.
> >
> > Jim Ayers
> > Less Drag Products, Inc.
> > (Standard disclaimer c##p about not being
> affiliated with Massey Aircraft
> > Service or Van's Aircraft)
> >
> > P.S. look in the yeller pages for Massey Aircraft
> Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory" <rickjory@msn.com>
I went with the quickbuild for several reasons:
1. The quality is much, much better than what I would have produced.
2. Building an RV takes longer than I had ever imagined, albeit the
building is a source of fun and friendship.
3. Some builders burn out. When you have something that looks like a plane
in a relatively short time span, you're adrenaline keeps flowing.
4. Not that it is a biggee, I knew Van's did the wing fit at the factory
and that the fuselage and wings will mate and mate properly.
So, I went with the quickbuild. If I had it to do over, I would have made
the same decision.
Good luck,
Rick Jory RV8A
----- Original Message -----
From: lucky macy <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
<rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
>
> A quickbuild friend just told me if he were me he'd get the slow build.
His reasoning is that Van's did all the big easy stuff that goes together
relatively easily (minus bucking inside down at the tail end he said) and
the little pain in the you know what stuff he had to do anyway. He said he
wasn't happy with all their rivets, thought he could have done a better job
and drilled out and redid some of their stuff. Whatever.
>
> But, generally speaking, has anyone estimated the number of approximate
hours one has to put into the fuse to get it into the same shape as the
quickbuild fuse? He has a point, the extra $ can go towards a CS prop,
better electronics, etc for a few weeks of "easy" work. Yeah, right. Any
thoughts?
>
> do not archive
>
> lucky
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
I would disagree with your friend. I got the QB fuse and wings, and not a day goes
by that I am not glad I did. The workmanship was outstanding (at least on
mine; obviously your friend's experience could have been different). I think at
the time I paid a $7,000 premium for this. If it really is true that it saves
you 1,000 hours, then that is about $7.00 per hour.
Much depends on your particular circumstance. When my wife and I made this decision,
we had one small child with another in the hopper - leading to an eventual
total of three. Point being, I didn't have a lot of time to be working on this,
and she wasn't helping as much as she thought she would be able to. At the
time, I was doing maybe 250 hours per year - which again, IF the 1,000 hour
estimate is close, would have equated to
about 3-4 years worth of work for me. My youngest child is now three, life has
gotten simpler, and so over the last year and a half or so my time on the aircraft
has gone way up. Still, I would be so much further behind if I had opted
for slow build. As it is, I should fly this summer - not two or three summers
down the road.
Other factors:
1) no jig construction required; more time saved
2) critical components/alignment etc. done for me
3) much of the tedious work already done. Your friend may be correct that Vans
has done all the "big easy stuff" but I am thankful every day that I did not
have to align, drill, debur, counter-sink or dimple, and rivet those extra 8,000
holes!
4) quality of workmanship. Again, I have been more than pleased with mine. The
wings are perfect, with no twist or misalignment, etc., etc.
The 1,000 hour time "savings" estimate may have been generous, but still, even
if it only saved me a couple of years, that - along with the items above - leave
me quite happy opting for the quick build. Of course, one cannot overlook the
cost. If money is tight, then that might be a factor pushing toward the slow
build. It is all a balance - money vs. time.
csb
lucky macy wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
>
> A quickbuild friend just told me if he were me he'd get the slow build. His reasoning
is that Van's did all the big easy stuff that goes together relatively
easily (minus bucking inside down at the tail end he said) and the little pain
in the you know what stuff he had to do anyway. He said he wasn't happy with
all their rivets, thought he could have done a better job and drilled out and
redid some of their stuff. Whatever.
>
> But, generally speaking, has anyone estimated the number of approximate hours
one has to put into the fuse to get it into the same shape as the quickbuild
fuse? He has a point, the extra $ can go towards a CS prop, better electronics,
etc for a few weeks of "easy" work. Yeah, right. Any thoughts?
>
> do not archive
>
> lucky
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Figure about 250 hours to build the fuselage to the QB stage, maybe plus or
minus 25 hours. If you don't prep & prime stuff, subtract a bunch from
that. If you have readily available riveting partners nearby, you can
probably compress that time a bit as well.
For what it's worth, I went from crate to upright canoe in 3 months...a heck
of a lot quicker than waiting for the QB! I was able to average about 3
hours per day on the project. If you have the time and don't mind the work,
slow building can get you there faster.
I'm not about to debate the merits of QB. The QB kits rock. Just wanted to
give you data points.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
<rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
>
> A quickbuild friend just told me if he were me he'd get the slow build.
His reasoning is that Van's did all the big easy stuff that goes together
relatively easily (minus bucking inside down at the tail end he said) and
the little pain in the you know what stuff he had to do anyway. He said he
wasn't happy with all their rivets, thought he could have done a better job
and drilled out and redid some of their stuff. Whatever.
>
> But, generally speaking, has anyone estimated the number of approximate
hours one has to put into the fuse to get it into the same shape as the
quickbuild fuse? He has a point, the extra $ can go towards a CS prop,
better electronics, etc for a few weeks of "easy" work. Yeah, right. Any
thoughts?
>
> do not archive
>
> lucky
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
I feel exactly the same way. If the only reason you are building is to save
money, it becomes just a matter of degree. I WANT to build the airplane.
I'll enjoy every minute of it. Why would I pay extra for the QB?
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
<rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
>
> A quickbuild friend just told me if he were me he'd get the slow build.
His reasoning is that Van's did all the big easy stuff that goes together
relatively easily (minus bucking inside down at the tail end he said) and
the little pain in the you know what stuff he had to do anyway. He said he
wasn't happy with all their rivets, thought he could have done a better job
and drilled out and redid some of their stuff. Whatever.
>
> But, generally speaking, has anyone estimated the number of approximate
hours one has to put into the fuse to get it into the same shape as the
quickbuild fuse? He has a point, the extra $ can go towards a CS prop,
better electronics, etc for a few weeks of "easy" work. Yeah, right. Any
thoughts?
>
> do not archive
>
> lucky
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 wingtips |
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
I sure hope you aren't saying the RV-list is an old dog.
In a message dated 01/15/2003 3:27:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
>
> you can't teach an old dog new tricks!
>
>
> --- Rick Jory <rickjory@msn.com> wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory"
> > <rickjory@msn.com>
> >
> > I asked Mike Seager when doing my transition
> > training about the two
> > different tip offerings. Mike flies all of the
> > factory ships, including the
> > 6 and 6A. He's flown with both tips, and suggested
> > the "old style" is
> > actually "a bit better". I don't think there's any
> > noticeable difference .
> > . . it's probably builder preference. I just
> > thought it was interesting
> > that he liked the old style.
> > do not archive
> > Rick Jory RV8A, old tips
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <LeastDrag93066@aol.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by:
> > LeastDrag93066@aol.com
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I asked, when I was at the factory, about the
> > difference in the "old"
> > style
> > > wingtip, and the "new" style wingtip. I was told
> > it was only an
> > appearance
> > > change. No change in performance.
> > >
> > > As a Subtle Observation:
> > > If you want the "new" appearance and a "couple"
> > miles per hour at each end
> > of
> > > the airspeed envelope, you'll need to get the "Hot
> > Tips" from Massey
> > Aircraft
> > > Service. That is, if you don't sand the "sharp"
> > edge off the outer edge
> > of
> > > the wingtip.
> > > If you want a nice rounded edges on the end of the
> > wingtip and don't care
> > > about performance improvements, just buy Van's
> > wingtip.
> > >
> > > Jim Ayers
> > > Less Drag Products, Inc.
> > > (Standard disclaimer c##p about not being
> > affiliated with Massey Aircraft
> > > Service or Van's Aircraft)
> > >
> > > P.S. look in the yeller pages for Massey Aircraft
> > Service.
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
Thanks Dan, the hours spent on the fuse and the approximate amount of time
in months was what was I was looking for but I should have specified it was
an 8 fuselage which isn't as prepunched as your 7 and the 9. It's probably
more than that. It's just the way he said it so assuredly made me think
twice. My wife wants me to get the QB fuse for quality time reasons but I
don't want to be twiddling my thumbs for months either. Last time I did
that it ended up being a year and a half before I "got the RV fever" again
and I just want to avoid that too.
later,
lucky
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Figure about 250 hours to build the fuselage to the QB stage, maybe plus
or
> minus 25 hours. If you don't prep & prime stuff, subtract a bunch from
> that. If you have readily available riveting partners nearby, you can
> probably compress that time a bit as well.
>
> For what it's worth, I went from crate to upright canoe in 3 months...a
heck
> of a lot quicker than waiting for the QB! I was able to average about 3
> hours per day on the project. If you have the time and don't mind the
work,
> slow building can get you there faster.
>
> I'm not about to debate the merits of QB. The QB kits rock. Just wanted
to
> give you data points.
>
> do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
> To: "rv8list rv8list" <rv8list@yahoogroups.com>; "rv-list"
> <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
> >
> > A quickbuild friend just told me if he were me he'd get the slow build.
> His reasoning is that Van's did all the big easy stuff that goes together
> relatively easily (minus bucking inside down at the tail end he said) and
> the little pain in the you know what stuff he had to do anyway. He said he
> wasn't happy with all their rivets, thought he could have done a better
job
> and drilled out and redid some of their stuff. Whatever.
> >
> > But, generally speaking, has anyone estimated the number of approximate
> hours one has to put into the fuse to get it into the same shape as the
> quickbuild fuse? He has a point, the extra $ can go towards a CS prop,
> better electronics, etc for a few weeks of "easy" work. Yeah, right. Any
> thoughts?
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > lucky
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Lucky,
I'm going to chime in along with Dan, the QB kit is nice. OK, that out of
the way:-)
For one, you don't have to build the jig anymore. A nice flat surface and
you're on your way. The wings are pretty straight forward but I think you
will find most 7/8/9 builders will tell you that you have to scratch your
head a little more on the fuse. If you were to start right now (I know you
are talking the fuse here) on a set of wings and fuse., and were willing to
put in 20 hours per week you would be furthur along than if you simply
waited until a QB kit arrive on your front porch.
Either way, you can't go wrong.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Lucky,
I think that getting the fuselage to the "canoe stage" took me very close to
the same time as one of the wings. The work was much less tedious mainly
because of the more complex shape. I did as some others have said and put
the extra money saved into the C/S prop etc.
In the beginning the money issue made the decision . My fuselage is on it's
wheels and having done it I would do it again money or not.
It is becoming clear to me that I really do like building these airplane
thingies(;-)!
Jim in Kelowna
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
<rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
>
> A quickbuild friend just told me if he were me he'd get the slow build.
His reasoning is that Van's did all the big easy stuff that goes together
relatively easily (minus bucking inside down at the tail end he said) and
the little pain in the you know what stuff he had to do anyway. He said he
wasn't happy with all their rivets, thought he could have done a better job
and drilled out and redid some of their stuff. Whatever.
>
> But, generally speaking, has anyone estimated the number of approximate
hours one has to put into the fuse to get it into the same shape as the
quickbuild fuse? He has a point, the extra $ can go towards a CS prop,
better electronics, etc for a few weeks of "easy" work. Yeah, right. Any
thoughts?
>
> do not archive
>
> lucky
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | [Fwd: AeroElectric-List: Lancair BMA Flight Testing] (EFIS info) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
For those of us who don't monitor the AeroElectric list:
This info is notable because Lancair has been very critical of BMA in the past.
Charlie
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lancair BMA Flight Testing
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider@compuserve.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
<WernerSchneider@compuserve.com>
Hello Folks,
I wanted to share following posting from Denis Douglas in the Glastar Net.
It seems, that BMA made some progress, Bob, as you have good contacts into
Lancair, can you confirm?
-----------------------------------Posting from Denis
Douglas----------------------------------
I have been been anxiously watching the BMA-Lancair dialog/"spat" because,
if Lancair tests the BMA EFIS and finds it acceptable, I was sure that I
would also find it acceptable. To this end, I have attached (below) the
text of a 01/15/03 report from Kirk Hammersmith, Lancair's Avionics Manager.
Judge for yourself:
[QUOTE]
Last year, I promised I would (continue) to test the Blue Mountain EFIS
system and report how things were panning out. If you recall, we
attempted to flight test Greg Richter's system on several occasions and I
reported negative results. Since my post in July 2002, several things have
occurred. Most significantly, Greg Richter paired up with Malcom Thomson,
who I met in Reno at the Air Races last September. After conversation with
Malcom about our negative experiences with BMA, he assured me that things
were changing at Blue Mountain and asked for some time to prove it. I agreed
to a new round of testing, which we started in October 2002. We installed
the system in our company Lancair IV and waited for Malcom to arrive. After
our first round of flight tests with Malcom in the copilot seat, we did a
fabulous job at demonstrating pitch, roll, acceleration and deceleration
errors that were
unacceptable. After seeing the errors, Malcom agreed that they had some work
to do. Two subsequent flights were made specifically to collect data for
Greg to analyze.
Malcom arrives back at Lancair (late Nov or early Dec), this time with Greg.
Some new software code and flight tests showed vast improvements (and hope),
but additional flight-testing continues to show significant
pitch & roll errors as well as acceleration and deceleration errors. After
again collecting more data, Malcom & Greg left, promising to return with a
fix.
Malcom, Greg, and Greg's AHRS expert returned to Lancair last week with new
software and determination to demonstrate an accurate EFIS/One. The weather
was nasty all week, preventing any flight-testing. The Blue
Mountain crew headed to Portland for the weekend, returning bright and early
Monday morning. No more snog (snow-fog) and blue skies prevailing, Chief
Pilot Peter Stiles and Greg Richter took off in the company IV to put the
EFIS/One through the paces. After they returned, Peter walked into my office
to report the test flight. "I couldn't fail
the system," Peter tells me. I questioned him further about the test and
couldn't believe my ears. The Blue Mountain EFIS/One performed
flawlessly.
Additional testing and refinements to the Blue Mountain system will be done
between now and Sun N Fun. The BMA group dove in head first,
identified problems, and demonstrated incredible support in resolving those
issues. Based on the testing standards we put these guys through, the
accuracy of their system and their level of support, we will be offering the
BMA EFIS/One to our customers. As a side note, the system we are testing has
new software code, which is not released yet,
according to Greg. He mentioned it would be incorporated in his next
software release after refinements and debugging is done.
Additional testing and in-flight photos will be available soon on the
Lancair Avionics website (www.lancairavionics.com)
If you have any specific questions about the system or its performance, feel
free to contact me directly kirkh@lancair-kits.com
We are preparing for first flight-testing phase of the new Avidyne Entegra
EFIS, Garmin GTX330 Mode S Transponder w/ TIS, weather datalinking system by
WSI and the JPI EDM-900 Engine Monitoring System.
Kirk Hammersmith
Lancair Avionics
[END QUOTE]
---------------
Message 30
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| Subject: | Garmin 295 Fuel Interface |
--> RV-List message posted by: bruno <rv4@videotron.ca>
Hello everyone
A question to owners of Garmin 295 GPS.Is there one of you who
has installed a fuel flow computer interface with your 295:ie.. Matronics
fuel flow computer or a JPI 450 etc..
If so,how does it work?Do you get fuel required to next
waypoint or to destination on the Gps etc....
Thanks for your imputs
Bruno Dionne
rv4@videotron.ca
Do not archive
Message 31
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--> RV-List message posted by: Tom Brandon <tombrandon@mac.com>
Hi Guys
What did it cost you guys who bought an Aerosport engine, to get into
the US? I'm referring to shipping and tax charges.
Thanks
Message 32
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--> RV-List message posted by: Mark and Sabina Gilbert <msgilbert@attbi.com>
RV Listers,
Could someone explain voltage drop to me. I'm not sure I really understand
the concept. I know how to calculate it, and how to measure it with a
voltage meter (at least I think I do), but I'm not sure I get it. For
example, in a simple series circuit with a 12 Volt battery and one-3 ohm
device and one-1 ohm device, Ohms law tells me that 3 amps run through the
circuit (assuming no resistance in the battery or in the wire connecting
the devices), and that the 3 ohm device has a 9 volt-voltage drop across
it, and the 1 ohm device has a 3 volt-voltage drop across it. Does that
mean 9 volts are consumed/used by the 3ohm device and 3 volts are
consumed/used by the 1 ohm device, or what? I've read the textbook
explanation that tells me voltage drop is the difference in voltage across
two points, but what does that really mean or tell me?
Thanks in advance. I'm sure I'm trying to hard.
Mark
RV6A, left wing
Message 33
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| Subject: | quickbuild vs slow build fuse question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <jclark@conterra.com>
I agree with Scott and Rick.
I have watched a "slowbuild" being built in the hangar next to me. Even got
in the way trying to "help" (actually trying to learn). My friend did a
fantastic job but it was a LOT of work. Yeah, I know some people knock 'em
out in a few weeks using just a hacksaw and a hammer. :-) I don't have the
time, daily persistence or capability of those individuals.
I have a "quickbuild" that I have been "sorta" working on for YEARS. Given
the availability of $$ I would do it again. And yes it WILL take longer than
you expect because YES, the small stuff does take longer than a lot of the
big stuff.
I tell everyone that asks me that they would be better off working at say
McDonald's and applying that money to a QB. Every burger flipped could be
equated to a number of "pre-paid rivets in my RV". And unless they
themselves are a "quick builder" they will have a better product sooner.
James
... getting ready to get started again
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Brumbelow
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 6:44 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: quickbuild vs slow build fuse question
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
>
> I would disagree with your friend. I got the QB fuse and wings,
> and not a day goes by that I am not glad I did. The workmanship
> was outstanding (at least on mine; obviously your friend's
> experience could have been different). I think at the time I paid
> a $7,000 premium for this. If it really is true that it saves you
> 1,000 hours, then that is about $7.00 per hour.
>
> Much depends on your particular circumstance. When my wife and I
> made this decision, we had one small child with another in the
> hopper - leading to an eventual total of three. Point being, I
> didn't have a lot of time to be working on this, and she wasn't
> helping as much as she thought she would be able to. At the time,
> I was doing maybe 250 hours per year - which again, IF the 1,000
> hour estimate is close, would have equated to
> about 3-4 years worth of work for me. My youngest child is now
> three, life has gotten simpler, and so over the last year and a
> half or so my time on the aircraft has gone way up. Still, I
> would be so much further behind if I had opted for slow build. As
> it is, I should fly this summer - not two or three summers down the road.
>
> Other factors:
> 1) no jig construction required; more time saved
> 2) critical components/alignment etc. done for me
> 3) much of the tedious work already done. Your friend may be
> correct that Vans has done all the "big easy stuff" but I am
> thankful every day that I did not have to align, drill, debur,
> counter-sink or dimple, and rivet those extra 8,000 holes!
> 4) quality of workmanship. Again, I have been more than pleased
> with mine. The wings are perfect, with no twist or misalignment,
> etc., etc.
>
> The 1,000 hour time "savings" estimate may have been generous,
> but still, even if it only saved me a couple of years, that -
> along with the items above - leave me quite happy opting for the
> quick build. Of course, one cannot overlook the cost. If money is
> tight, then that might be a factor pushing toward the slow build.
> It is all a balance - money vs. time.
>
> csb
>
>
> lucky macy wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
> >
> > A quickbuild friend just told me if he were me he'd get the
> slow build. His reasoning is that Van's did all the big easy
> stuff that goes together relatively easily (minus bucking inside
> down at the tail end he said) and the little pain in the you know
> what stuff he had to do anyway. He said he wasn't happy with all
> their rivets, thought he could have done a better job and drilled
> out and redid some of their stuff. Whatever.
> >
> > But, generally speaking, has anyone estimated the number of
> approximate hours one has to put into the fuse to get it into the
> same shape as the quickbuild fuse? He has a point, the extra $
> can go towards a CS prop, better electronics, etc for a few weeks
> of "easy" work. Yeah, right. Any thoughts?
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > lucky
> >
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Barts Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: KAKlewin@aol.com
Tom,
I just ordered one last month...I think it was around $175 to ship and $95 in
tax charges if I remember right....
Kurt in OKC
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