---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/16/03: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:01 AM - Re: Voltage Drop (Thomas McCausland) 2. 07:11 AM - wingtip differences (Frazier, Vincent A) 3. 08:29 AM - Re: [Fw: AeroElectric-List: Lancair BMA Flight Testing] (EFIS info) (C. Rabaut) 4. 08:32 AM - Re: Voltage Drop (Dave Bristol) 5. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Re: Misc Questions...liquid shim (Elsa & Henry) 6. 08:55 AM - test (John) 7. 09:14 AM - Old Lowrance GPS wanted (John) 8. 09:54 AM - Re: RV8 wingtips (Ross Schlotthauer) 9. 10:00 AM - Voltage Drop (Wheeler North) 10. 10:10 AM - Re: Voltage Drop (kempthornes) 11. 10:13 AM - Re: RV8 wingtips (Rick Jory) 12. 10:23 AM - Re: wingtip differences (LeastDrag93066@aol.com) 13. 11:04 AM - Re: RV8 wingtips (JRWillJR@aol.com) 14. 11:26 AM - Re: Two color painting (RV4) 15. 03:10 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery (Will Cretsinger) 16. 05:56 PM - 51% Requirements and Orndorff Videos () 17. 06:12 PM - Temper Foam on the Cheap (Donald Mei) 18. 06:12 PM - Fw: Forward to RV list. (Donald Mei) 19. 06:29 PM - LED cockpit lights (Doug Weiler) 20. 06:48 PM - Re: 51% Requirements and Orndorff Videos (Karie Daniel) 21. 07:28 PM - Re: LED cockpit lights (Dave Bristol) 22. 07:33 PM - Re: Fw: Forward to RV list. (Cy Galley) 23. 08:53 PM - Re: LED cockpit lights (Larry Bowen) 24. 09:14 PM - Re: LED cockpit lights (Vanremog@aol.com) 25. 10:09 PM - Clamp for nose strut fairing (Gary) 26. 10:23 PM - Clamps for nose strut fairing (Gary) 27. 10:46 PM - Re: Voltage Drop long (Meketa) 28. 11:05 PM - AFP install kit...no AN826-6D? (Dan Checkoway) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:18 AM PST US From: "Thomas McCausland" Subject: Re: RV-List: Voltage Drop --> RV-List message posted by: "Thomas McCausland" Date sent: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:45:11 -0800 From: Mark and Sabina Gilbert Subject: RV-List: Voltage Drop Send reply to: rv-list@matronics.com > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark and Sabina Gilbert > > RV Listers, > > Could someone explain voltage drop to me. I'm not sure I really understand > the concept. I know how to calculate it, and how to measure it with a > voltage meter (at least I think I do), but I'm not sure I get it. For > example, in a simple series circuit with a 12 Volt battery and one-3 ohm > device and one-1 ohm device, Ohms law tells me that 3 amps run through the > circuit (assuming no resistance in the battery or in the wire connecting > the devices), and that the 3 ohm device has a 9 volt-voltage drop across > it, and the 1 ohm device has a 3 volt-voltage drop across it. Does that > mean 9 volts are consumed/used by the 3ohm device and 3 volts are > consumed/used by the 1 ohm device, or what? I've read the textbook > explanation that tells me voltage drop is the difference in voltage across > two points, but what does that really mean or tell me? > > Thanks in advance. I'm sure I'm trying to hard. > > Mark > RV6A, left wing > You pretty much have it Mark. Ohms law says (and forgive me for repeating the stuff you already know).. I = current in amps, E = Voltage in volts, R = Resistance in ohms I = E/R (voltage divided by resistance) E = I x R So 12 volts thru a total series resistance of 4 ohms = 3 amps Now that you have the current you can solve for the individual voltage drops across each resistor. E (or voltage drop) across the 3 ohm will be 3 ohms times 3 amps = 9 volt drop. Voltage drop across the 1 ohm will be 3 amps times 1 ohm = 3 volts. Notice all the voltage drops add up to your orianal 12 volts. This is Kirchhoff's law at work. See: http://www.sciencejoywagon.com/physicszone/lesson/07electr/kirc hoff/seclaw.htm I think of voltage drops and resistors with the water or garden hose theory (garden hose electronics) The Pump, or battery is putting out 12 volts of pressure. Because of all the restrictions in the line (smaller pipes ...ie the resistors), the pump can pump 3 amps of current (the flow) at that pressure. The pressure drop across each smaller pipe / resistor can be figured out with ohms law. In practical terms if you used the negative post of the battery as your ground reference, had the 3 ohm resistor off the positive post and the 1 ohm next with it returned to 'ground' you would have this: 12v battery 3 ohm 1 ohm I-----I'I'I'I'I ---------XXXXX--------------------XXXXX----I I (-) (+) I Sorry if the Ascii art doesn't come out. A meter measuring from 'ground' or the minus post to the postive post of the battery will read 12 volts. From 'ground' to the far end of the 3 ohm will read 3 volts (you dropped 9 volts across the 3 ohms) From ground to the end of the 1 ohm will read zero volts..(you dropped the last 3 volts across the one ohm). From a MORE practical view.. Your 1 ohm resistor is a landing light that requires 3 volts. (they were availible real cheap as surplus from aircraft spruce..you couldn't resist and purchased a 25 year supply) You have a 12 volt system in your RV..whatcha gonna do? (yeah I know...typical bulb filiments dont keep a constant resistance when they heat up...hey..this is my story and I'm sticking to it) Solution - you stick a 3 ohm resistor in series with it before the battery. You now have 3 volts going to your bulb. Replacement tail parts for RV7A arriving tommorw. Tom McCausland PPASEL N1576J PA-28-140 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:28 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: wingtip differences From: "Frazier, Vincent A" --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" A local HRII pilot switched from the old flattop wingtips to the new ones and lost a mph or so. Not much, but I suppose it's enough for some folks to worry about. Here's the condensed data: Results were: old Van tips=219.625 mph. After the change to the new "speed tips" =218.25. Vince in Indiana F-1H Rocket with sheared tips under construction ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:16 AM PST US From: "C. Rabaut" Subject: Re: RV-List: [Fwd: AeroElectric-List: Lancair BMA Flight Testing] (EFIS info) --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" Charlie, Thanks for the update on the BMA system... there's obviously great hope for this set up. Maybe I'll start saving my money. Chuck ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:32 AM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Voltage Drop --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol You've got it right Mark but I think what's confusing you is that Volts are not "consumables" - you don't use them up. Volts are only a measurement of "pressure" like ohm is a measure of resistance, in an ideal circuit they don't change, but amps on the other hand are a measurement of flow, of something being "consumed" or work being done. Hope that doesn't confuse you more! Dave Mark and Sabina Gilbert wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark and Sabina Gilbert > > RV Listers, > > Could someone explain voltage drop to me. I'm not sure I really understand > the concept. I know how to calculate it, and how to measure it with a > voltage meter (at least I think I do), but I'm not sure I get it. For > example, in a simple series circuit with a 12 Volt battery and one-3 ohm > device and one-1 ohm device, Ohms law tells me that 3 amps run through the > circuit (assuming no resistance in the battery or in the wire connecting > the devices), and that the 3 ohm device has a 9 volt-voltage drop across > it, and the 1 ohm device has a 3 volt-voltage drop across it. Does that > mean 9 volts are consumed/used by the 3ohm device and 3 volts are > consumed/used by the 1 ohm device, or what? I've read the textbook > explanation that tells me voltage drop is the difference in voltage across > two points, but what does that really mean or tell me? > > Thanks in advance. I'm sure I'm trying to hard. > > Mark > RV6A, left wing > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:03 AM PST US From: "Elsa & Henry" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Re: Misc Questions...liquid shim --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" The cowl hinge installation using the liquid shim idea is basically what I did on my cowl, but my "shim" was a very fine polyester netting (like a Bride's veil) cut in strips and coated with West resin mixed to a ketchup consistency with cotton flock and the slow hardener. I had previously fitted the hinges and drilled all the rivet holes, (but not countersinked) with the cowl halves in situ. The hinges were drilled with 3/16" holes between the rivet holes to allow excess epoxy to weep out and provide a firmer bond. With the cowl and hinge bonding surfaces roughed-up, the "shim" was applied and the hinges cleco'd in place. Both cowl halves were done and then installed over the engine with the hinge pins in place and left undisturbed for about 4 hours after which the clecos were removed. Then I left the set-up undisturbed for two more days to let the epoxy cure. After re-drilling the rivet holes (to remove epoxy seepage), they were countersinked. Then, and only then were the rivets set. The hinge pins came out easily to do this and after riveting, I could re-insert the hinges in easily with my fingers after the rivets were installed. All of the above was detailed in a letter to Van's and it was published in the 3rd issue, 1999, of the RVator. Following my original List postings on cowl hinges on 11/13 and 11/14/02, I have complied to 46 request for copies of the article.---Have not yet received any comments from receivers. Any results?? Reply off-list. Cheers!!-------Henry Hore ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:53 AM PST US From: "John" Subject: RV-List: test --> RV-List message posted by: "John" Test...I've had problems posting...disregard this DO NOT ARCHIVE jwf ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:22 AM PST US From: "John" Subject: RV-List: Old Lowrance GPS wanted --> RV-List message posted by: "John" I want to buy an original Lowarance Air Map (not the current 100 or 300 model) if the price is really 'cheap' -- if you have one you have replaced with a later model let me take it off your hands... I have it rigged for NavAid control and would like a 'back-up' unit just in case. Thanks - John at Salida, CO ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:25 AM PST US From: Ross Schlotthauer Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips --> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer I would say that the RV list is about half old dog! In general the list probably averages people that are half way done with their planes. Most people are open minded about things they have not done or bought but once they have bought, used, built, or owned something they become loyal to that product or process (myself included). Therefore someone who has used something extensively, be it sheared wing tips, navaid wing levelers, or tricycle gear, is more than likely going to be reluctant to change. The very open minded person who quickly adopts the new is more the exception than the rule. Though I don't know him personally, If Mr. Seager has over 5500 hours in RV's he must be very happy with them just the way they are. --- LeastDrag93066@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: > LeastDrag93066@aol.com > > I sure hope you aren't saying the RV-list is an old > dog. > > In a message dated 01/15/2003 3:27:26 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com writes: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer > > > > > you can't teach an old dog new tricks! > > > > > > --- Rick Jory wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory" > > > > > > > > > I asked Mike Seager when doing my transition > > > training about the two > > > different tip offerings. Mike flies all of the > > > factory ships, including the > > > 6 and 6A. He's flown with both tips, and > suggested > > > the "old style" is > > > actually "a bit better". I don't think there's > any > > > noticeable difference . > > > . . it's probably builder preference. I just > > > thought it was interesting > > > that he liked the old style. > > > do not archive > > > Rick Jory RV8A, old tips > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips > > > > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: > > > LeastDrag93066@aol.com > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > I asked, when I was at the factory, about the > > > difference in the "old" > > > style > > > > wingtip, and the "new" style wingtip. I was > told > > > it was only an > > > appearance > > > > change. No change in performance. > > > > > > > > As a Subtle Observation: > > > > If you want the "new" appearance and a > "couple" > > > miles per hour at each end > > > of > > > > the airspeed envelope, you'll need to get the > "Hot > > > Tips" from Massey > > > Aircraft > > > > Service. That is, if you don't sand the > "sharp" > > > edge off the outer edge > > > of > > > > the wingtip. > > > > If you want a nice rounded edges on the end of > the > > > wingtip and don't care > > > > about performance improvements, just buy Van's > > > wingtip. > > > > > > > > Jim Ayers > > > > Less Drag Products, Inc. > > > > (Standard disclaimer c##p about not being > > > affiliated with Massey Aircraft > > > > Service or Van's Aircraft) > > > > > > > > P.S. look in the yeller pages for Massey > Aircraft > > > Service. > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:46 AM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Voltage Drop --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North The V-drop loss is in the form of power as released heat energy, or light if its really bad. All electrical units are rated in units of power. An unsloiticed V-drop is very much like a carbon resistor. Put less resistance in the rest of the circuit or more voltage on the circuit and the V-Drop will get hotter as more current flows. Exceed the power capacity (ability to reject heat) of the resistor or V-Drop and it will produce light for a short period. On another note, I've been off list for a few months as my father got very ill and passed away just before Christmas. Been a bitch as they say. But he made it as a successful pilot for 35 years. Broke the airplane a few times, even wore one out, but he never crashed into anything and walked away from every landing. And he was the reason I now make a living talking about airplanes, while spending my free time playing with airplanes. So, here's to fathers all throughout space You took us to the sky with glorious grace You taught us how to cheer and chase the joys of life above the rat race You did it with integrity From airport to airport, city to city And when you came down with a soft hand you always had a good place to land As we go up yonder, you're there to help us ponder Is he still with us, up here on high with the little white clouds, we toast to you good bye Thanks Pops ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:23 AM PST US From: kempthornes Subject: Re: RV-List: Voltage Drop --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes At 07:45 PM 1/15/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Mark and Sabina Gilbert > >RV Listers, > >Could someone explain voltage drop to me. .................. Does that >mean 9 volts are consumed/used by the 3ohm device and 3 volts are The word 'consumed' really does not fit in with discussions of volts or amps. Where it fits the closest is watts. When you buy electricity off the power grid, for example, you are not billed on either voltage drop or ampere capacity at the service entrance but on watts consumed. (Industries are billed also on peak demand but as I recall, that is also measured in watts.) The electricity laws and their words and equations have to be used with caution if confusion is to be avoided. It is a bit like asking where the light goes when you flip the switch to off. There are words that don't go together. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:42 AM PST US From: "Rick Jory" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory" So true, so true . . . especially since I believe Seager owns a Mooney? but spends tons of times in a Van's creation. do not archive Rick Jory RV8A ----- Original Message ----- From: Ross Schlotthauer Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips > --> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer > > I would say that the RV list is about half old dog! > In general the list probably averages people that are > half way done with their planes. Most people are open > minded about things they have not done or bought but > once they have bought, used, built, or owned something > they become loyal to that product or process (myself > included). Therefore someone who has used something > extensively, be it sheared wing tips, navaid wing > levelers, or tricycle gear, is more than likely going > to be reluctant to change. The very open minded > person who quickly adopts the new is more the > exception than the rule. Though I don't know him > personally, If Mr. Seager has over 5500 hours in RV's > he must be very happy with them just the way they are. > > > --- LeastDrag93066@aol.com wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: > > LeastDrag93066@aol.com > > > > I sure hope you aren't saying the RV-list is an old > > dog. > > > > In a message dated 01/15/2003 3:27:26 PM Pacific > > Standard Time, > > rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer > > > > > > > > you can't teach an old dog new tricks! > > > > > > > > > --- Rick Jory wrote: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory" > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked Mike Seager when doing my transition > > > > training about the two > > > > different tip offerings. Mike flies all of the > > > > factory ships, including the > > > > 6 and 6A. He's flown with both tips, and > > suggested > > > > the "old style" is > > > > actually "a bit better". I don't think there's > > any > > > > noticeable difference . > > > > . . it's probably builder preference. I just > > > > thought it was interesting > > > > that he liked the old style. > > > > do not archive > > > > Rick Jory RV8A, old tips > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: > > > > LeastDrag93066@aol.com > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > I asked, when I was at the factory, about the > > > > difference in the "old" > > > > style > > > > > wingtip, and the "new" style wingtip. I was > > told > > > > it was only an > > > > appearance > > > > > change. No change in performance. > > > > > > > > > > As a Subtle Observation: > > > > > If you want the "new" appearance and a > > "couple" > > > > miles per hour at each end > > > > of > > > > > the airspeed envelope, you'll need to get the > > "Hot > > > > Tips" from Massey > > > > Aircraft > > > > > Service. That is, if you don't sand the > > "sharp" > > > > edge off the outer edge > > > > of > > > > > the wingtip. > > > > > If you want a nice rounded edges on the end of > > the > > > > wingtip and don't care > > > > > about performance improvements, just buy Van's > > > > wingtip. > > > > > > > > > > Jim Ayers > > > > > Less Drag Products, Inc. > > > > > (Standard disclaimer c##p about not being > > > > affiliated with Massey Aircraft > > > > > Service or Van's Aircraft) > > > > > > > > > > P.S. look in the yeller pages for Massey > > Aircraft > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:21 AM PST US From: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: wingtip differences --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com In a message dated 01/16/2003 7:15:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, VFrazier@usi.edu writes: > A local HRII pilot switched from the old flattop wingtips to the new ones > and lost a mph or so. > Who's "new" ones? Van's, Mark Fredrick, ? Jim Ayers ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:59 AM PST US From: JRWillJR@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 wingtips --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com I am going with the old style flat top tips with my RV7A. I like the way they look better, I already have bought strobes previously that will work better with them, I like the way they look better and--and I suspect they may have slightly better performance, speed, roll etc and even if they don't I still like them better. Do Not Archive. JR ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:09 AM PST US From: "RV4" Subject: Re: RV-List: Two color painting --> RV-List message posted by: "RV4" Hi Dana, apply one coat over the other, but remove masking tape directly after painting. This way the ridge will disappear. Marcel de Ruiter De Ruiter aircraft Painting Ltd RV4/G-RVMJ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:17 PM PST US From: Will Cretsinger Subject: Re: RV-List: Odyssey Battery --> RV-List message posted by: Will Cretsinger I just ordered from batteries4everything but they had to special order the PC680 and said it may take a "few weeks". Their price seems the best even with $13 S&H to Texas. Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas Do not archive Ed_Cole@maximhq.com wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Ed_Cole@maximhq.com > > Listers, > A fellow builder is looking for the best price on an Odyssey PC680 battery. > I had purchased one last summer for $98 with free shipping from Batteries > Unlimited. > Does anyone else know of a better deal or dealer? > Also, where can you find the terminal adapters? > > Ed Cole > RV6A N2169D Flying > RV6A N648RV Finishing > > Maxim Home Page: > http://www.maxim-ic.com > Products Page: > http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm > New Products: > http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm > Datasheets: > http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm > The information contained in this message is confidential > and may be legally privileged. The message is intended > solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, > or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. > If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:40 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: 51% Requirements and Orndorff Videos From: "" --> RV-List message posted by: "" All, > > A couple of questions from a newbie builder: > > 1) What are the specific documentation requirements to satisfy the 51% rule? I would like to do a website. On inspection do people a) refer the DAR to the website, b) print out copies and give them to inspector, or c) keep a separate "manual" journal. For those that get by with just the website...how often do the DARs like to see progress pictures? > > 2) I am just starting the building process, and the harsh reality that my life will be dependant on the integrity of this structure is starting to sink in. Does anyone have one or two of the used Orndorff videos for sale or rent? Not having riveted anything before, I think it might make sense to get some perspective. > > THanks, > Scott > RV7A Emp Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:16 PM PST US From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: Temper Foam on the Cheap --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" I was able to acquire through a closeout a mattress pad made out of temper foam. The pad is about 1 1/2 inches thick. I will be cutting it up to use in my RV and would like to offer leftover pieces to others on the list. I don't know what shipping will cost, but would like to offer a piece large enough for top layer of an RV seat for $15 + shipping. This price may go down. I'm just looking to defray my cost. When I receive it and figure out how many pieces I can get, I may lower the price if I can get more pieces out of it. If you have an interest let me know off list. Don Mei ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:16 PM PST US From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: Fwd: Forward to RV list. --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" I was able to acquire through a closeout a mattress pad made out of temper foam. The pad is about 1 1/2 inches thick. I will be cutting it up to use in my RV and would like to offer leftover pieces to others on the list. I don't know what shipping will cost, but would like to offer a piece large enough for top layer of an RV seat for $15 + shipping. This price may go down. I'm just looking to defray my cost. When I receive it and figure out how many pieces I can get, I may lower the price if I can get more pieces out of it. If you have an interest let me know off list. Don Mei ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:25 PM PST US From: "Doug Weiler" Subject: RV-List: LED cockpit lights --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" Fellow Listers: One of our local builders is looking for a couple of those red LED cockpit spotlights that Van's used to sell. They are no longer in production I found out, but he sure would like to buy a couple. Anyone have any??? Doug Weiler MN Wing ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:05 PM PST US From: "Karie Daniel" Subject: Re: RV-List: 51% Requirements and Orndorff Videos --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" Regarding the Orndorff videos. I bought them after getting my empennage kit and still didn't feel good about jumping right into the project. I took the 2 or 3 day RV builders class in Oregon came home and felt great about what I was doing. The videos give you a good idea of what to expect but getting hands on in a class will be the biggest benefit. Good luck! Karie Daniel RV-7A Empennage (coming along nicely) QB kit to be delivered in March. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: 51% Requirements and Orndorff Videos > --> RV-List message posted by: "" > > All, > > > > A couple of questions from a newbie builder: > > > > 1) What are the specific documentation requirements to satisfy the 51% rule? I would like to do a website. On inspection do people a) refer the DAR to the website, b) print out copies and give them to inspector, or c) keep a separate "manual" journal. For those that get by with just the website...how often do the DARs like to see progress pictures? > > > > 2) I am just starting the building process, and the harsh reality that my life will be dependant on the integrity of this structure is starting to sink in. Does anyone have one or two of the used Orndorff videos for sale or rent? Not having riveted anything before, I think it might make sense to get some perspective. > > > > THanks, > > Scott > > RV7A Emp > > > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:14 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: LED cockpit lights --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Doug, If you're talking about the "LC ECL-01 Eyeball cockpit lights" they are not red nor LED, they are white incandescent lights and you can't have mine I love 'em! Dave Doug Weiler wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" > > Fellow Listers: > > One of our local builders is looking for a couple of those red LED cockpit > spotlights that Van's used to sell. They are no longer in production I > found out, but he sure would like to buy a couple. > > Anyone have any??? > > Doug Weiler > MN Wing > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:59 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fwd: Forward to RV list. --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I would like a piece but I'll have to get the dimensions. Actually need one piece to go across both seats. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com We support Aeroncas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: Fwd: Forward to RV list. > --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" > > > I was able to acquire through a closeout a mattress pad made out of temper > foam. The pad is about 1 1/2 inches thick. I will be cutting it up to use > in my RV and would like to offer leftover pieces to others on the list. I > don't know what shipping will cost, but would like to offer a piece large > enough for top layer of an RV seat for $15 + shipping. This price may go > down. I'm just looking to defray my cost. When I receive it and figure out > how many pieces I can get, I may lower the price if I can get more pieces > out of it. If you have an interest let me know off list. > > Don Mei > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:45 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RV-List: LED cockpit lights --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" So would I! Let me know if you find any. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003: The year of flight! Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Weiler > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:27 PM > To: RV List > Subject: RV-List: LED cockpit lights > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" > > Fellow Listers: > > One of our local builders is looking for a couple of those > red LED cockpit spotlights that Van's used to sell. They are > no longer in production I found out, but he sure would like > to buy a couple. > > Anyone have any??? > > Doug Weiler > MN Wing > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:57 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: LED cockpit lights --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 1/16/2003 6:32:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, dougweil@pressenter.com writes: > One of our local builders is looking for a couple of those red LED cockpit > spotlights that Van's used to sell. They are no longer in production I > found out, but he sure would like to buy a couple. > > Anyone have any? I would instead recommend the incandescent eyeball lights that Van's, ACS and Wicks still sell. ACS P/N 11-07800 and Wicks P/N MOD-1. Mount them in the canopy deck side rails. -GV (RV-6A N1GV 586hrs) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:47 PM PST US From: "Gary" Subject: RV-List: Clamp for nose strut fairing --> RV-List message posted by: "Gary" Andy, Yeah, mine is done........except for finding the specified 3/8 inch wide hose clamp. I was just going to post a message on the list about this, to see what solutions people had. The problem is not the pant.....it is the clamp. The deal is, the only hose clamps I can find in a big enough size to go around the nose strut and fairing are all 1/2 inch wide. Vans calls out a 3/8 inch wide clamp. I called Van's on this, after searching all the hardware stores, and the aircraft supply catalogs. The only place I have not checked is McMaster-Carr. Van's didn't have an answer, other than what I'd already tried. He said it shouldn't be a problem to find narrow hose clamps. I said, fine, you guys find them, and include them in the kit. Bottom line is, the pant and fairing fit fine, we just need a clamp that is narrow enough and has a small enough worm drive so it won't hit the inside of the front of the nose pant when the gear pivots. I'll post this to the two lists and see what we stir up. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Karmy To: rv9er@3rivers.net Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:05 PM Subject: Nose wheel pant? Hey Gary, I'm having a hard time getting the nosewheel pant to work out. Have you fit that part yet? I finished mounting the pant and everything was fine until I tried to install the nose gear leg fairing. Seems the hoseclamp at the bottom is too high (when pressed all the way down) so it apears that I got the pant mounted too low (by about 3/16") so now I can't hide the clamp inside the pant... Did yours work out, or have you done it yet? - Andy --- Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/22/02 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:07 PM PST US From: "Gary" Subject: RV-List: Clamps for nose strut fairing --> RV-List message posted by: "Gary" Andy......looks like McMaster Carr can help us out. They have 5/16 inch wide stainless hose clamps all the way up past 2 inches. The 1 1/4 inch size is around $5 for a package of ten. Go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for hose clamps, worm drive. Gary --- ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:21 PM PST US From: "Meketa" Subject: Re: RV-List: Voltage Drop long --> RV-List message posted by: "Meketa" Hello Yall, The best way to check for excess resistance in a 12 volt DC electrical system is by using voltage drop. The description of different ohm devices is not a realistic way to describe a standard circuit in our aircraft. All load circuits in an RV are parallel and not in series. One can describe a system with multiple switches, wires, terminals, etc. to be in series, but for this discussion lets just pretend that if there is only one load device in a leg of a parrallel circuit that the voltage at the load device (bulb, starter, pitot heater, etc.) would be the same as the voltage supply (alternator/battery). Did you get that? A simple circuit example would be a battery with the negative connected to the airframe, a wire coming from the positive terminal with a switch feeding a bulb with the other bulb wire connected to the airframe. If the voltage at the bulb is less than at the battery the loss can be found by checking the voltage across each component to find the source of the loss. The leads of the voltmeter would be put on the two switch terminals to test the switch. They would be put on the battery positive terminal and supply terminal at the switch to check the power supply wire, etc. Adding up all the individual losses will equal the total loss at the bulb. In reality we NEVER have the same voltage at the bulb as at the battery. EVERY connection, length of wire, switch, bulb, socket, etc. has a certain amount of resistence. We are normally not concerned with the amount of drop. If the system has properly sized wire, properly sized quality switches, quality terminals with proper crimps, etc. there will be very little drop in the circuit to measure. Now, when should we be concerned about drop and how do we measure it? I will give several examples that I have come across. 1. I have a friend who had a high dollar 550 conversion done on his Cessna185. From day one he had cranking problems with the engine and it progressively got worse. All cables were replaced, the new lightweight starter was swapped for a stock unit and a new battery was installed with no improvement. He then had the P leads melt up to the ignition switch and was installing a new switch when I heard about all the problems. I first checked voltage across the battery when cranking. It was 12.6 idle and about 11.0 when attempting to crank. I then checked voltage at the starter housing and starter cable lead while cranking. It was less than 6.0 volts. No doubt a drop somewhere. I then ran the meter across each component and had 5 volts between the engine mount ground strap and the mount itself when cranking. It turned out that the engine builder had powder coated the mount and not cleaned the area where the strap contacted the mount under the rubber. The P lead shields had been a lower resistance source for the ground along with the engine control cables which showed signs of heat. This should have been a clue to the problem. Instead of pulling the engine from the mount, a cable was run from negative cable at the mount to the engine case. My wife and I recieved a nice steak dinner for that one. 2. Another friends 63 Corvette had severe cranking problems when hot. A voltage drop test found all the battery cables had high amounts of voltage loss when crankling. A master battery cable disconnect was installed under the seat and the longer cables were fabricated with fine strand welding cable. He had a hard time believing my diagnosis, but replaced the cables anyway. Problem solved. He used the same style welding cable and the problem reoccured again a year later. He now has standard automotive battery cable with no further problems. This friend builds custom cars for a living and now uses only auto type battery cable. We never figured out the real problem with the cables, it was not the terminal connections, but in the cable itself. Possible internal oxidation of some type. When measured in a standard low amperage circuit the drop will be in the millivolt range and can easily be a volt or more in the starter circuit. Also, drops are always measured with the circuit active and mean nothing when not. The only time I check it is when looking for a problem. Hope this helps. George Meketa ASE Master Automotive Tech. RV8, 237 hours > RV Listers, > > Could someone explain voltage drop to me. I'm not sure I really understand > the concept. I know how to calculate it, and how to measure it with a > voltage meter (at least I think I do), but I'm not sure I get it. For > example, in a simple series circuit with a 12 Volt battery and one-3 ohm > device and one-1 ohm device, Ohms law tells me that 3 amps run through the > circuit (assuming no resistance in the battery or in the wire connecting > the devices), and that the 3 ohm device has a 9 volt-voltage drop across > it, and the 1 ohm device has a 3 volt-voltage drop across it. Does that > mean 9 volts are consumed/used by the 3ohm device and 3 volts are > consumed/used by the 1 ohm device, or what? I've read the textbook > explanation that tells me voltage drop is the difference in voltage across > two points, but what does that really mean or tell me? > > Thanks in advance. I'm sure I'm trying to hard. > > Mark > RV6A, left wing ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:08 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: RV-List: AFP install kit...no AN826-6D? --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Hm...been working on the Airflow Performance high-pressure fuel pump installation, and I realized that the kit requires an AN826-6D tee fitting from the selector, tees into the filter and pump bypass. But it appears that the install kit came with everything BUT this fitting. Strange. I'm going to ask Van's if that was inadvertent or whether it's up to the builder to come up with that one fitting. Anyway, heads-up...save yourself time/shipping and order an AN826-6D when you get the pump & install kit! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) http://www.rvproject.com